Aviano789
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Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 8:12 pm

San Andres is like any other island in the Caribbean with white sandy beaches, and lots of typical fun attracting over 800,000 international tourist annually.

While the North American carriers have saturated other smaller less attractive islands with daily direct flights, SKSP with all its unspoiled charm and beauty can’t seem to get direct flights, even with the volume of visitors it attracts. There are some seasonal chatter flights from Canada, which is the most direct flight one can hope of getting on.

In 2015, we had to attend a wedding on San Andres Island. From Miami (MIA) we flew approximately 150 miles east of the island on the way to Bogota (SKBO) then change plane and fly 700 plus miles back to San Andres. Considering the distance from MIA to SKSP is mere 913 miles, less than 2.8 hours flying time.

Although the SKSP is sixth busiest airport in Colombia in terms of passengers, major US and Canadian carriers have stayed out of that market. International tourist wishing to visit the island must first fly to one of Colombia's or Panama's largest airports Bogotá, Medellín, Cali, Cartagena, Barranquilla or Panama City and double back to the islands. Various other airlines fly from Bogota to San Andres including Avianca, Satena and Aires and Aerorepublica.

We can’t say such market is not lucrative for Air Lines operating out of MIA, MCO IAH, ATL, IAH, YYZ, so why are the airlines not flying direct to San Andres?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 8:30 pm

Aviano789 wrote:
San Andres is like any other island in the Caribbean with white sandy beaches, and lots of typical fun attracting over 800,000 international tourist annually.

While the North American carriers have saturated other smaller less attractive islands with daily direct flights, SKSP with all its unspoiled charm and beauty can’t seem to get direct flights, even with the volume of visitors it attracts. There are some seasonal chatter flights from Canada, which is the most direct flight one can hope of getting on.

In 2015, we had to attend a wedding on San Andres Island. From Miami (MIA) we flew approximately 150 miles east of the island on the way to Bogota (SKBO) then change plane and fly 700 plus miles back to San Andres. Considering the distance from MIA to SKSP is mere 913 miles, less than 2.8 hours flying time.

Although the SKSP is sixth busiest airport in Colombia in terms of passengers, major US and Canadian carriers have stayed out of that market. International tourist wishing to visit the island must first fly to one of Colombia's or Panama's largest airports Bogotá, Medellín, Cali, Cartagena, Barranquilla or Panama City and double back to the islands. Various other airlines fly from Bogota to San Andres including Avianca, Satena and Aires and Aerorepublica.

We can’t say such market is not lucrative for Air Lines operating out of MIA, MCO IAH, ATL, IAH, YYZ, so why are the airlines not flying direct to San Andres?

Are you sure it is really 800,000 international tourists? Seems to me like that would be the right figure for the total number of tourists, most of whom are Colombian, of course. And I wouldn't exactly call San Andrés unspoiled. It's a small island with over 100,000 inhabitants. You are never far from another tourist on San Andrés, and the local ecosystem and nature has suffered great damage due to the excessive tourism. San Andrés actually needs less tourism, not more.
 
Jerry123
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 8:34 pm

Does Columbia and the US have an open skies agreement? If not and the daily flights are limited to a certain amount of flights a day the US carriers may want to concentrate them on the main 3 or 4 cities and use codeshares for San Andres. It may well be possible as well that American package holiday companies may not have a big presence there so don't sell enough holidays there to warrant direct flights.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 8:34 pm

There have been direct flights from the USA in the past, not sure why those have stopped. The island has even seen direct flights to Europe on Meridiana, but I guess that was a bit too much. After all it's only a small island.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 8:44 pm

Jerry123 wrote:
Does Columbia and the US have an open skies agreement? If not and the daily flights are limited to a certain amount of flights a day the US carriers may want to concentrate them on the main 3 or 4 cities and use codeshares for San Andres. It may well be possible as well that American package holiday companies may not have a big presence there so don't sell enough holidays there to warrant direct flights.

You may want to correct your spelling of Colombia, before the autistic gang here flames you...
 
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mercure1
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 9:52 pm

Is the airport even an authorized point of entry with sufficient staff and facility to handle international flights?
mercure f-wtcc
 
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mats
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 10:30 pm

I've repeatedly considered a holiday in San Andres, but the travel logistics have always interfered.
It's 1474 miles from Houston or Atlanta; 916 miles from Miami, 1102 miles from Orlando.
Even an Embraer 145XR can handle a Houston or Atlanta flight without difficulty.

As I see it, the hotels and resorts in San Andres are more or less independent. It could possibly take the commercial strength of a Melía / Ritz Carlton / Hilton -- that affects the unspoiled nature of the Island, but it could facilitate better air transportation.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 10:30 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Aviano789 wrote:
San Andres is like any other island in the Caribbean with white sandy beaches, and lots of typical fun attracting over 800,000 international tourist annually.

While the North American carriers have saturated other smaller less attractive islands with daily direct flights, SKSP with all its unspoiled charm and beauty can’t seem to get direct flights, even with the volume of visitors it attracts. There are some seasonal chatter flights from Canada, which is the most direct flight one can hope of getting on.

In 2015, we had to attend a wedding on San Andres Island. From Miami (MIA) we flew approximately 150 miles east of the island on the way to Bogota (SKBO) then change plane and fly 700 plus miles back to San Andres. Considering the distance from MIA to SKSP is mere 913 miles, less than 2.8 hours flying time.

Although the SKSP is sixth busiest airport in Colombia in terms of passengers, major US and Canadian carriers have stayed out of that market. International tourist wishing to visit the island must first fly to one of Colombia's or Panama's largest airports Bogotá, Medellín, Cali, Cartagena, Barranquilla or Panama City and double back to the islands. Various other airlines fly from Bogota to San Andres including Avianca, Satena and Aires and Aerorepublica.

We can’t say such market is not lucrative for Air Lines operating out of MIA, MCO IAH, ATL, IAH, YYZ, so why are the airlines not flying direct to San Andres?

Are you sure it is really 800,000 international tourists? Seems to me like that would be the right figure for the total number of tourists, most of whom are Colombian, of course. And I wouldn't exactly call San Andrés unspoiled. It's a small island with over 100,000 inhabitants. You are never far from another tourist on San Andrés, and the local ecosystem and nature has suffered great damage due to the excessive tourism. San Andrés actually needs less tourism, not more.


If Wiki is correct, the island's population is 67,912.
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MalevTU134
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 10:38 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Aviano789 wrote:
San Andres is like any other island in the Caribbean with white sandy beaches, and lots of typical fun attracting over 800,000 international tourist annually.

While the North American carriers have saturated other smaller less attractive islands with daily direct flights, SKSP with all its unspoiled charm and beauty can’t seem to get direct flights, even with the volume of visitors it attracts. There are some seasonal chatter flights from Canada, which is the most direct flight one can hope of getting on.

In 2015, we had to attend a wedding on San Andres Island. From Miami (MIA) we flew approximately 150 miles east of the island on the way to Bogota (SKBO) then change plane and fly 700 plus miles back to San Andres. Considering the distance from MIA to SKSP is mere 913 miles, less than 2.8 hours flying time.

Although the SKSP is sixth busiest airport in Colombia in terms of passengers, major US and Canadian carriers have stayed out of that market. International tourist wishing to visit the island must first fly to one of Colombia's or Panama's largest airports Bogotá, Medellín, Cali, Cartagena, Barranquilla or Panama City and double back to the islands. Various other airlines fly from Bogota to San Andres including Avianca, Satena and Aires and Aerorepublica.

We can’t say such market is not lucrative for Air Lines operating out of MIA, MCO IAH, ATL, IAH, YYZ, so why are the airlines not flying direct to San Andres?

Are you sure it is really 800,000 international tourists? Seems to me like that would be the right figure for the total number of tourists, most of whom are Colombian, of course. And I wouldn't exactly call San Andrés unspoiled. It's a small island with over 100,000 inhabitants. You are never far from another tourist on San Andrés, and the local ecosystem and nature has suffered great damage due to the excessive tourism. San Andrés actually needs less tourism, not more.


If Wiki is correct, the island's population is 67,912.

I doubt that Wiki is correct in this case. There has been a huge influx of mainlanders moving to San Andrés in the last decade or so, many of whom do so illegally, so they never get registered. I really don't get the "unspoilt" part of the description that many here make of the island. Its main coral reefs are destroyed, its beaches are full of tourists (not as bad in the south as in the unbearably touristy north), and for many Colombians, its drag is mainly its duty-free status, not the beaches.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 10:42 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Are you sure it is really 800,000 international tourists? Seems to me like that would be the right figure for the total number of tourists, most of whom are Colombian, of course. And I wouldn't exactly call San Andrés unspoiled. It's a small island with over 100,000 inhabitants. You are never far from another tourist on San Andrés, and the local ecosystem and nature has suffered great damage due to the excessive tourism. San Andrés actually needs less tourism, not more.


If Wiki is correct, the island's population is 67,912.

I doubt that Wiki is correct in this case. There has been a huge influx of mainlanders moving to San Andrés in the last decade or so, many of whom do so illegally, so they never get registered. I really don't get the "unspoilt" part of the description that many here make of the island. Its main coral reefs are destroyed, its beaches are full of tourists (not as bad in the south as in the unbearably touristy north), and for many Colombians, its drag is mainly its duty-free status, not the beaches.


Your likely right. I thought it said 2017 estimate, when it is actually 2007. My bad,
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pylon101
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 10:47 pm

I have been there. It is the regional resort. Promoting San Andres is like saying that Ocean City, MD or Virginia Beach, VA are international resorts.
Colombia mainland is a miraculous country though.
I am on EK 231/232. The rest is just jet lag.
 
Noise
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 10:59 pm

There are just too many more beautiful options in the Caribbean. San Andres gets overlooked because it's no Roatan.
 
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proudpilot94
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sat May 26, 2018 11:00 pm

The fact is San Andres is ugly. Ugly infrastructure, ugly hotels (not a single four or five star hotel there) and lots of corruption. The beaches are beautiful (a bit dirty) but that's it.
There are a few charter flights from YUL operated by Air Transat every year. I've been there and I promised to not to go again. (Not the case with mainland Colombia which is gorgeous)
PS: Canuck here!
Last edited by proudpilot94 on Sat May 26, 2018 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
johns624
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 1:15 am

The reason that no American airlines fly there is that it is within range of their 737s and A320s but everyone is afraid to fly that far over water on one of them. 767s and A330s are too large for the number of passengers.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 1:21 am

johns624 wrote:
it is within range of their 737s and A320s but everyone is afraid to fly that far over water on one of them.

Please tell me you were saying this as a joke.

ADZ would not even be an ETOPS route, from anywhere in the mainland USA. Much less some long stretch over water.

And considering that thousands of USAmericans per day board 737/A32Xs to and from Hawaii.........
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
1900Driver
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 1:29 am

Doesn’t Air Transat serve ADZ from YUL in the winter?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 1:53 am

1900Driver wrote:
Doesn’t Air Transat serve ADZ from YUL in the winter?

They did as of last winter, yes.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
mackdad
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 4:49 am

I remember NK use to fly to ADZ when they started flying to CTG. If anybody remember before Colombian open skies they had BAQ, CTG, and ADZ as open skies cities to drum up tourism. Once frequencies opened up for BOG NK dropped ADZ for BOG.


Now to stir the pot. All the Colombians call the tourists Gringos not yankees.
 
asuflyer
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 5:44 am

The fact is that the infrastructure is not there for US and Canadian tourists. For a destination to be successful with US and Canadians it needs to be well marketed, and have a workforce somewhat versed in English and a mix of large modern all inclusive resorts, as well as some luxury resorts and budget brands including chains. San Andres may be an attractive destination but simply does not have the attractive accommodation Americans and Canadians, typically seek in the Caribbean. At best, I could see AA starting with an E175 to MIA.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 5:59 am

asuflyer wrote:
The fact is that the infrastructure is not there for US and Canadian tourists. For a destination to be successful with US and Canadians it needs to be well marketed, and have a workforce somewhat versed in English and a mix of large modern all inclusive resorts, as well as some luxury resorts and budget brands including chains.

:checkmark:

....and to add:
has to do all of this while competing against destinations that have had that manner of infrastructure/recognition for decades on end.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Jerry123
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 6:49 am

johns624 wrote:
The reason that no American airlines fly there is that it is within range of their 737s and A320s but everyone is afraid to fly that far over water on one of them. 767s and A330s are too large for the number of passengers.

Yet they have no problem flying over the Pacific in 737s and A320s.
 
guyanam
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 7:01 am

asuflyer wrote:
The fact is that the infrastructure is not there for US and Canadian tourists. For a destination to be successful with US and Canadians it needs to be well marketed, and have a workforce somewhat versed in English .


And yet San Andres has an ample supply of people whose FIRST language is English. It certainly isnt well marketed as even Caribbean people have never heard of San Andres. So its no wonder that many will see it as a remote part of Colombia, (if they have heard of it which I doubt) so will assume that a lack of English speaking workers will be an issue. And until they do it makes no sense for a US carrier to start service there. Planes don't fly empty.

By the way a lack of all inclusive resorts isnt a pre-requisite. A lack of quality resorts will be an issue though. Not everyone wishes to be locked away in some generic hotel hidden from the attractions of the destination.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 7:13 am

can all y'all (decided to go non-Yankee) just separate and go to your corners?

a) you can never win an argument over language with an a.net pendant, so stop trying
b) "shithole" is not a particularly artful or sensitive term to use in place like this, so that was unfortunate
c) BUT....... the OP's reaction to it smacked of an anti-colonial racially charged diatribe that isn't..... healthy
d) I've noticed that in disputes here, there is so very often, the automatic tendency to assume posters here are white, male, USamericans; many of us are not. We should all check our assumptions at the door.


Even the title of this thread conveys a unhealthy initial view: that the Gringo carriers "ignore" SKSP. Ignore? Like its beneath them? Like there's a cabal who's decided that this island shall be willfully cut out of the spigot of tourist money and investment?

Probably not, right?
if those carriers thought they could make a better return (than other routes) flying winter seasonal to the North Sentinal Islands, they would.
The only thing that keeps these carriers out of a market is politics, safety, technical feasibility or lack of demand.

As others have said: if the stated goal is to attract tourists, and thus the air traffic that will bring them, one must start with upscaling and improvement of infrastructure. Without even looking into it, I'm guessing that means the airport is topic 1. It seems to me that this may be a larger issue of internal Colombian political will. If the island is being "short changed" by the central govt, then clearly, thats probably something that cannot be fixed by carriers or tourists.
 
johns624
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 2:36 pm

LAX772LR and Jerry123--yes, that was a joke but my response was deleted, and probably will be again. It was in reference to another thread started by the OP. When my response was deleted but not you 2 questioning my original post, it makes me look idiotic.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 2:53 pm

TS operates scheduled (not charter) flights to ADZ.

Flights are bookable on their website for next winter season. YUL-ADZ is served 1x weekly from Dec 20, 2018 to March 28, 2019.

https://www.airtransat.com/en-CA/home
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
trent772
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 3:09 pm

proudpilot94 wrote:
The fact is San Andres is ugly. Ugly infrastructure, ugly hotels (not a single four or five star hotel there) and lots of corruption. The beaches are beautiful (a bit dirty) but that's it.
There are a few charter flights from YUL operated by Air Transat every year. I've been there and I promised to not to go again. (Not the case with mainland Colombia which is gorgeous)
PS: Canuck here!


You’ve pin pointed it, San Andres is just plain ugly, old and outdated infrastructure and amenities, that is a fact, hopefully with these comments I won’t be hurting anyone’s feelings and maybe this time my posts won’t be deleted.
 
dcajet
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 3:12 pm

johns624 wrote:
The reason that no American airlines fly there is that it is within range of their 737s and A320s but everyone is afraid to fly that far over water on one of them. 767s and A330s are too large for the number of passengers.


Huh? So all those 737s flying from Europe to North America how do they deal with the over water flying?
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 3:17 pm

dcajet wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The reason that no American airlines fly there is that it is within range of their 737s and A320s but everyone is afraid to fly that far over water on one of them. 767s and A330s are too large for the number of passengers.


Huh? So all those 737s flying from Europe to North America how do they deal with the over water flying?


Johns624 failed to highlight the use of sarcasm effectively.
The OP, it is claimed, started a recent prior thread questioning the safety of NB ops over water.
 
williaminsd
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 4:19 pm

There always seems to this angry undercurrent with some posters. Not sure why, but I hope they don't infect this site as I've seen happen to so many others. Fact is, to attract a market with billions of dollars in discretionary income, you have to have the amenities and infrastructure that market expects. Canadians and Americans have truly countless options. Why on earth would they be expected to fly thousands of additional miles and spend thousands of dollars when the product upon arrival simply doesn't match what other resorts offer? There's nothing wrong with being a regional attraction. If local leaders want to upgrade facilities to attract an upgraded clientel, that's up to them, but let's not squeal about being "ignored." You aren't going to have 5 Star airline service if you only offer a 2.5 Star experience...
 
OGLOBAL
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 5:19 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Are you sure it is really 800,000 international tourists? Seems to me like that would be the right figure for the total number of tourists, most of whom are Colombian, of course. And I wouldn't exactly call San Andrés unspoiled. It's a small island with over 100,000 inhabitants. You are never far from another tourist on San Andrés, and the local ecosystem and nature has suffered great damage due to the excessive tourism. San Andrés actually needs less tourism, not more.


If Wiki is correct, the island's population is 67,912.

I doubt that Wiki is correct in this case. There has been a huge influx of mainlanders moving to San Andrés in the last decade or so, many of whom do so illegally, so they never get registered. I really don't get the "unspoilt" part of the description that many here make of the island. Its main coral reefs are destroyed, its beaches are full of tourists (not as bad in the south as in the unbearably touristy north), and for many Colombians, its drag is mainly its duty-free status, not the beaches.


I am actually from San Andres and the beaches are one of the best . yes the island needs more proper marketing . it currently accommodates 2 daily flights from PTY

there are lots of Argentinians and Brazilians visiting the island . it's well known in the south of the continent but not in the north
 
OGLOBAL
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 5:23 pm

trent772 wrote:
proudpilot94 wrote:
The fact is San Andres is ugly. Ugly infrastructure, ugly hotels (not a single four or five star hotel there) and lots of corruption. The beaches are beautiful (a bit dirty) but that's it.
There are a few charter flights from YUL operated by Air Transat every year. I've been there and I promised to not to go again. (Not the case with mainland Colombia which is gorgeous)
PS: Canuck here!


You’ve pin pointed it, San Andres is just plain ugly, old and outdated infrastructure and amenities, that is a fact, hopefully with these comments I won’t be hurting anyone’s feelings and maybe this time my posts won’t be deleted.



San Andres is neither of those ... there are several good hotels in the island . have you heard of Casa Harb ? it's a very good boutique hotel ? or even decameron El Isleno
 
trent772
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 5:54 pm

OGLOBAL wrote:
trent772 wrote:
proudpilot94 wrote:
The fact is San Andres is ugly. Ugly infrastructure, ugly hotels (not a single four or five star hotel there) and lots of corruption. The beaches are beautiful (a bit dirty) but that's it.
There are a few charter flights from YUL operated by Air Transat every year. I've been there and I promised to not to go again. (Not the case with mainland Colombia which is gorgeous)
PS: Canuck here!


You’ve pin pointed it, San Andres is just plain ugly, old and outdated infrastructure and amenities, that is a fact, hopefully with these comments I won’t be hurting anyone’s feelings and maybe this time my posts won’t be deleted.



San Andres is neither of those ... there are several good hotels in the island . have you heard of Casa Harb ? it's a very good boutique hotel ? or even decameron El Isleno


Yes I know Casa Harb, Jack (the owner) is a family acquaintance and we used to work for the same company back when he was a flight attendant, it’s a small boutique hotel that doesn’t cater to the masses, El Isleño hotel has seen improvements since it was purchased by the Decameron chain
 
TWA902fly
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 6:36 pm

I wonder if a MIA-ADZ-DAV-MIA or MIA-ADZ-DAV triangle or tag would work on an AA E75? DAV is David, Panama, and there are many US, Canadian, and European expats in the area.

'902
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usxguy
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 7:06 pm

Isnt there a video from the cockpit of a plane landing in ADZ the day after the Aires 737 crash landed, with the plane still in pieces on the runway
xx
 
 
johns624
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 7:51 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
Johns624 failed to highlight the use of sarcasm effectively.
The OP, it is claimed, started a recent prior thread questioning the safety of NB ops over water.
Thanks. Here is that other thread.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1392865&p=20365947#p20365947
 
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chepos
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 9:27 pm

I have always wanted to visit San Andres, but what a pain to get there.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
chidino
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Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 9:43 pm

"Ignore" it? I think I see where you're going, but perhaps an unfortunate word choice. Simple fact: if it made money, they would be there. They are killing each other for the slightest competitive advantage, and so they are not going to choose to ignore a viable destination.

Fodor's, for example, says "massive tourism from the mainland is overtaking the local culture and Spanish has become dominant." Frommer's makes it sound like a in-country resort. Both treat it as a minor destination. I'm not saying they are correct -- I've never been there -- but this is what uninitiated US tourists get when they read a go-to travel reference. And with so many other beautiful islands to choose from -- not to slight San Andrés -- but why would the average American tourist spend time dwelling on why this island doesn't have direct service? Whatever issues San Andrés has in attracting NA tourists is reflected in the carriers' lack of service, not caused by a decision to "ignore" San Andrés.
 
flyboynk
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:57 pm

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 10:06 pm

mackdad wrote:
I remember NK use to fly to ADZ when they started flying to CTG. If anybody remember before Colombian open skies they had BAQ, CTG, and ADZ as open skies cities to drum up tourism. Once frequencies opened up for BOG NK dropped ADZ for BOG.


Now to stir the pot. All the Colombians call the tourists Gringos not yankees.




Greetings, actually NK has never flown to San Andres (ADZ)... Now, NK has permission to fly from ADZ to U.S. mainland (they have had this permission for years now) if and when T.S.A gives final approval for security of airport (has to do with a few issues including perimeter fence security and terminal infastructure/logistics for an Int'l flight to U.S.). When Spirit started Armenia (AXM) years ago they also received permission from the Colombian authorities to fly to and from San Andres (my guess would be FLL). That has never materialized, NK started BAQ at the request of the Colombian aviation authorities for a minimum of one year or until ADZ was approved.

The order of when Spirit started service was as followed CTG - May/2008, BOG - July/2008 , MDE - March/2009, AXM - November/2009. BAQ was flown briefly for about one year, service began November/2010

More Colombian destinations to be added soon...
Flyboynk
 
mackdad
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 10:09 pm

Well it looks like our friends at TSA haven’t signed off on ADZ. There is the main reason why US carriers have ignored it.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2114
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 11:04 pm

chidino wrote:
"Ignore" it? I think I see where you're going, but perhaps an unfortunate word choice. Simple fact: if it made money, they would be there. They are killing each other for the slightest competitive advantage, and so they are not going to choose to ignore a viable destination.

Fodor's, for example, says "massive tourism from the mainland is overtaking the local culture and Spanish has become dominant." Frommer's makes it sound like a in-country resort. Both treat it as a minor destination. I'm not saying they are correct -- I've never been there -- but this is what uninitiated US tourists get when they read a go-to travel reference. And with so many other beautiful islands to choose from -- not to slight San Andrés -- but why would the average American tourist spend time dwelling on why this island doesn't have direct service? Whatever issues San Andrés has in attracting NA tourists is reflected in the carriers' lack of service, not caused by a decision to "ignore" San Andrés.

Fodor's is absolutely right in this case.
 
chidino
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Sun May 27, 2018 11:44 pm

When will people stop believing that direct air service is the only thing missing from Travel Destination X? It’s the tourism version of “If I wish hard enough, it will happen.” Every destination has to truly be a destination by the customer’s own definition, or there’s no point to serving it. And first-world customers are used to certain brand names: not necessarily to utilize, but to provide a comfort level that avoids being asked “How far away from civilization are we?” (It’s especially prevalent among a group seeking to lie in the sun for a week, not climb Everest.)
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Mon May 28, 2018 12:14 am

It is the chicken and the egg theory. If a particular place is hard to get to then only the most determined will bother. While San Andres might be "over developed" clearly Providencia is the opposite, so there is a balance right there. But if it is too difficult to get there, or too expensive no reason to go there. These islands are under promoted so there is no proof that there is demand for air service to these islands from the USA.

But it seems as if all of this is moot if TSA doesn't allow direct service between the USA and ADZ. So fix ADZ first to TSA levels and then the debate And yes trent I bet if I used strong language to damn Colombia you too would be up in arms. So why the shock when people connected to these islands react, and please don't say that being Colombian makes you objective.

You have your opinion as do others, and that is what it is, an opinion. I happen to think that Aruba is a waste of time for the same reasons that you describe San Andres, yet others think otherwise. Personally Curacao will be more to my taste. To each his own.
Last edited by guyanam on Mon May 28, 2018 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Mon May 28, 2018 12:20 am

chidino wrote:
And first-world customers are used to certain brand names: not necessarily to utilize, but to provide a comfort level that avoids being asked “How far away from civilization are we?” (It’s especially prevalent among a group seeking to lie in the sun for a week, not climb Everest.)


BGI has been a major tourism destination for decades and yet until recently the only established brand was Hilton. That hotel was gov't owned for quite a while when it was on the brink of closure, so clearly wasn't a draw.

Now I don't know if you consider Sandals to be a major chain but I can assure you that they have played a major role in developing visits from the USA to the Caribbean. They recently opened up hotels in Grenada and Barbados and one can see dramatic improvements in visitor arrivals from the USA. They are excellent and marketing their properties.
 
trent772
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 pm

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Mon May 28, 2018 12:53 am

guyanam wrote:
Trent I bet if I used strong language to damn Colombia you too would be up in arms. So why the shock when people connected to these islands react, and please don't say that being Colombian makes you objective.


I’ve never been the type that cries foul when someone bashes Colombia, I perfectly know the country I live in with both its strengths and its shortcomings and of course its history as troubled as it has been, as for the objectivity part, well I thought I had good reason to speak my mind on the subject since I have been a regular to the island for a lot of years now, being Colombian probably doesn’t make me objective but what does make me objective is the fact that I know what’s happening in the political and socioeconomic arenas on the island compared to an OP that was once invited to a wedding there and wondered why he couldn’t get there without having to make a stopover.

guyanam wrote:
You have your opinion as do others, and that is what it is, an opinion. I happen to think that Aruba is a waste of time for the same reasons that you describe San Andres, yet others think otherwise. Personally Curacao will be more to my taste. To each his own.


Yes we all have opinions, but people will sometimes feel attacked when other don’t share the same views, I for one also feel Curaçao is a far better option for me than Aruba.
 
Etheereal
Posts: 336
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Mon May 28, 2018 2:08 pm

afaik the airport doenst have enough infrastructure to hold so many planes, specially international ones. Also, the facilities in SP are appaling.
JetBuddy wrote:
"737 slides off the runway" is the new "Florida man"..

:lol:
 
danimarroquin
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:06 am

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Mon May 28, 2018 3:15 pm

To be honest , on my last visit to San Andres I felt the same disappointment feeling as everybody . The island Has a horrible airport 80s infrastructure with no AC , and a very small terminal that clearly needs maintenance , with a really high embarrassing arrival tax l that makes no sense . the local government has completely stole that money , and doesn't even invest on the airport terminal , any extension on ramp or terminal which is already really short for the demand of the current local traffic . the island is the back yard for Colombian tourist , and doesn't seem to have too many attractions for the N-American tourist comparing Mexico , Colombia main land or other islands in the Caribbean .A really poor tourist infrastructure , high prices on everything does takes away the tourist to come back to the island , and comparing to the main land which is beautiful doesnt help the case neither . As a Colombian / Canadian on my last visit with my American wife I was extremely disappointed and we would prefer to go to Cartagena , Medellin or Pereira then waist our money in San Andres with relly bad experiences and high prices .
 
OGLOBAL
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Mon May 28, 2018 4:52 pm

i think this thread summarizes my island San Andres a beautiful place but such a mess . i mean damn no need to get heated about it.

in conclusion local government has no desire to develop the island they are happy with how it is they haven't done anything to change the situation even though they claim the opposite. at the moment San Andres is basically the spring break destination for colombians you get masses thanks to low cost airlines such as viva colombia who don't contribute much to the local economy
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: Why US and Canadian Air Carriers have ignore San Andrés (SKSP)

Tue May 29, 2018 4:41 am

San Andrés is not unspoiled. As it has been pointed out, it has suffered from a low budget, mass-tourism destination for middle-class families with insufficient infrastructure and sub par hotels. The island is very small and overpopulated (26 sq km for 70.000+ inhabitants plus 25.000 tourists any given week), so much that the government has taken measures to control the overflow of tourists to certain points of the archipielago because it has destroyed/severely affected many ecosystems.

Even the island´s original settlers, english-speaking creoles, have had to fight for their own culture as mainland colombians settled illegally on the island during the 1980s and 90s, and have continued to do so to a smaller scale up to this day. As a result, San Andrés town is an ugly agglomeration of buildings which is not pleasing to any tourist.

ADZ (the airport) is a huge dump also. I would guess it needs to have several infrastructure improvements in order to comply with FAA rules.

San Andrés has two nice things: the beaches and surrounding lagoons and Providencia island. Sadly, it is not quite there to be a world-class destination and probably never will be.

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