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JamesCousins
Posts: 484
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Mon May 28, 2018 7:09 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Will Air Baltic even be around to take delivery of all these planes?


State owned and reporting post-tax profits suggests so.
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
 
Obzerva
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Mon May 28, 2018 8:00 pm

I’m wondering if all of these aircraft are to be based at RIX, or whether a few might get shuffled to TLL (to compete against Nordica) and VNO.

There’s been of “playing in each other’s backyards” in Eastern Europe lately, mainly lead by LO (long haul at BUD and their involvement with Nordica at TLL), so I’m wondering if this expanded fleet could be something similar. I’d probably suggest they not try and expand in to VIE at the moment though...
 
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intrance
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Mon May 28, 2018 8:22 pm

Obzerva wrote:
I’m wondering if all of these aircraft are to be based at RIX, or whether a few might get shuffled to TLL (to compete against Nordica) and VNO.

There’s been of “playing in each other’s backyards” in Eastern Europe lately, mainly lead by LO (long haul at BUD and their involvement with Nordica at TLL), so I’m wondering if this expanded fleet could be something similar. I’d probably suggest they not try and expand in to VIE at the moment though...
Apparently at a announcement to employees from management today, it was said initially they will try to keep most CSeries operations from RIX and offload anything operating from TLL/VNO onto Dash8 and 737.
 
Tominjsh
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Mon May 28, 2018 10:31 pm

wingflex744 wrote:
Not sure what you mean with renting but currently there are no wet lease ops at airBaltic. Also none of the 11 737 in fleet are gone since the CS entry in the fleet.
Still 5 737-500 (BBD, E, M, N, Q), 2 737-300 (BBR, S) and 4 737-300W (BBI, J, X, Y) flying around.

wingflex744

At least last summer they had shortage and there was planes with CarpatAir livery as well few white 737.
Have seen also Smartlynx planes on BT flights. Possibly because of late CS deliveries.

Regarding 737, this is one http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b737-29334.htm
I am quite sure there was another one, but may be I am wrong.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Mon May 28, 2018 11:01 pm

I join in on the congrats to Bombardier, Airbus and AirBaltic for this order. Agreed with all who state this truly sets a precedent for those carriers considering the CSeries headed into Farnborough, this should be the beginning of the hundreds of orders I expect to see.

Just can't wait to fly on this thing =-)
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Mon May 28, 2018 11:17 pm

Congrats to Bombardier!
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
YIMBY
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Tue May 29, 2018 10:01 am

Kikko19 wrote:
yep but:

can't use rix as pure Europe hub only (wrong geography a part from east -west but east is russia...)

rix apt is a HUGE airport now (i mean the terminal) they just need another runway :)
Maybe they will go alone with 15/20 a338/39 to make the whole thing working. the base costs in latvia are very low indeed.


Whatever plans or dreams they have, Europe only hub is to begin with, after O&D only. They tried it a few years ago, to challenge Finnair and SAS, but lost (to Norwegian?).

Wonder if they plan other bases than RIX? Some 80 planes (or even 40) based in RIX is quite a lot.

What are the relations between Latvia and Russia (Air Baltic and Aerfoflot etc)? That is quite crucial as their niche includes flights to Russia, Belarus etc. Also any Asian long-haul requires overflight rights, though it would be much wiser to start with a Chinese operator to RIX than acquiring any own hardware for that. IMHO.
 
Someone83
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Tue May 29, 2018 10:19 am

YIMBY wrote:
Wonder if they plan other bases than RIX? Some 80 planes (or even 40) based in RIX is quite a lot.


According to AirBaltic they will also place the aircraft in TLL and VNO, both where they have few routes from, and plan to expand
 
Kikko19
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Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Tue May 29, 2018 11:11 am

YIMBY wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
yep but:

can't use rix as pure Europe hub only (wrong geography a part from east -west but east is russia...)

rix apt is a HUGE airport now (i mean the terminal) they just need another runway :)
Maybe they will go alone with 15/20 a338/39 to make the whole thing working. the base costs in latvia are very low indeed.


Whatever plans or dreams they have, Europe only hub is to begin with, after O&D only. They tried it a few years ago, to challenge Finnair and SAS, but lost (to Norwegian?).

Wonder if they plan other bases than RIX? Some 80 planes (or even 40) based in RIX is quite a lot.

What are the relations between Latvia and Russia (Air Baltic and Aerfoflot etc)? That is quite crucial as their niche includes flights to Russia, Belarus etc. Also any Asian long-haul requires overflight rights, though it would be much wiser to start with a Chinese operator to RIX than acquiring any own hardware for that. IMHO.

I agree that politics will have some wording, if russia says no to overflight rights then ciao.... 50 or 80 planes are far too many for a small base like rix (even 50 and the other 30 at tll/vno). even FR has maybe 15 planes at each bigger bases (ok the get feed from others ...). unless they will wetlease the planes to others airlines I don't see the reason , unless compete intercont, to asia only, for this big deal.
 
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767333ER
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Thu May 31, 2018 10:05 pm

Polot wrote:
767333ER wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Excellent news, though I expected their Q400s to be replaced with CS100s, not 300s. As other said above, no endorsement is more 'ringing' than when a customer orders many, many more of a product. I hope Air Baltic's expansion goes successfully.

The CS300 will likely displace the CS100 and those will replace the Q400. Just because an airline orders an aircraft to replace another doesn’t really mean it’s direct replacement. That’s my educated guess anyway.

AirBaltic doesn’t have any CS100s.

Amazing what not having coffee can do to one’s brain! Very sad that I even though that they might have them! :lol:
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MSPNWA
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:37 am

Any order is in an important order for the CSeries, but I'd say a top-off order from a carrier that said they were going to transition to an all-CSeries fleet would be the lowest on the importance pole. What the CSeries really needs is multiple orders from mainstream airlines to show the world that they are a good investment. I don't see this order making a difference in that department.
 
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admanager
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:28 pm

Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:43 am

How many C-Series have been delivered this year and how many more are expected? The first DL jets are expected in the next few months.
 
Dash9
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:40 pm

Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:30 pm

BBD said they'd deliver 40 Cseries this year. They are late on their scheduled but first flights and deliveries are picking up so who knows?

This production list is very accurate. It shows 10 deliveries this year but there were two extra in the last 24 hours which aren't showing yet. So 12 deliveries in 5 Months.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... r6hTc/view
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:26 am

Kikko19 wrote:
rix apt is a HUGE airport now (i mean the terminal) they just need another runway ;)

Maybe they need a moving walkway. ;)

I visited Riga Airport in March. I did some walking, but I didn't get the impression the terminal was that big. With six million passengers in 2017 I don't regard it as a busy airport either.

But the CS300's are nice aircraft. Good to see Air Baltic order more. And let's hope some other airlines will also sign up for it.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:27 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Any order is in an important order for the CSeries, but I'd say a top-off order from a carrier that said they were going to transition to an all-CSeries fleet would be the lowest on the importance pole. What the CSeries really needs is multiple orders from mainstream airlines to show the world that they are a good investment. I don't see this order making a difference in that department.


Or put another way a doubling of the initial order and commitment to exclusively use that aircraft from a launch operator would indicate they are delighted with the aircraft's performance and feel comfortable committing the company's future on the aircraft continuing to deliver.


Right now, the biggest uncertainty for future orders is no longer aircraft performance, but Bombardier's ability to deliver in a timely fashion. Fix the production rate and the orders will come.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:45 pm

Amiga500 wrote:

Right now, the biggest uncertainty for future orders is no longer aircraft performance, but Bombardier's ability to deliver in a timely fashion. Fix the production rate and the orders will come.

Agreed. Both Bombardier and Airbus are order delivery constrained on new orders. But Bombardier is hurt far more. :(

Last year's delivery rate supports a backlog of 100 to 150, so just to support the current c-series backlog requires a large increase in production.


Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
lostsound
Posts: 666
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:19 pm

How soon is the mobile CSeries plant supposed to be up and running?
 
 
tvh
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:41 am

Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:52 am

wingflex744 wrote:
Also none of the 11 737 in fleet are gone since the CS entry in the fleet.
Still 5 737-500 (BBD, E, M, N, Q), 2 737-300 (BBR, S) and 4 737-300W (BBI, J, X, Y) flying around.

wingflex744


I believe they had 13 of them when the first CS came. YL-BBO and YL-BBL have gone.
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:57 am

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airl ... SKCN1J20QK

Latvia-based AirBaltic hastened a deal for Bombardier CSeries planes before Airbus formally takes over because it was worried about securing the right delivery slots, the carrier's chief executive said on Wednesday.

"We could have waited, but we were of the opinion that we better buy them now to secure these (delivery) positions, not to risk that after the takeover somebody else takes (them)," Martin Gauss told Reuters at a CAPA-Centre for Aviation conference.

“it will be a mixture of financed aircraft on the balance sheet and sale-and-leaseback,” he said. “We will decide as we go along.”
 
Amiga500
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:20 pm

leghorn wrote:
https://twitter.com/AusAviation/status/1004207288184270848


So they'd need to sell about 35 extra seats to make the fuel burn pay difference off.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:24 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:


That means a few things:

1. BBD probably got a reasonable price - Air Baltic were not holding all the aces in negotiations.

2. BBD (and not Airbus) get the Benjamins.

3. Air Baltic must foresee quite a few sales in the near future.

4. Or foresee continued ramp up difficulties.
 
leghorn
Posts: 1297
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:17 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
https://twitter.com/AusAviation/status/1004207288184270848


So they'd need to sell about 35 extra seats to make the fuel burn pay difference off.

I'd prefer to be filling a Q400 all the year than filling a CS300 just in high season.
Riga has a population of 1million and Latvia has a population of 2.
There is only so much "build it and they will come" you can do.
 
Elementalism
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:40 pm

So the aircraft must be performing as expected or better. They are going for a major expansion in the fleet. This is good news. Looks like a great plane. I hope Delta eventually flies these out of MSP.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:44 pm

leghorn wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
https://twitter.com/AusAviation/status/1004207288184270848


So they'd need to sell about 35 extra seats to make the fuel burn pay difference off.

I'd prefer to be filling a Q400 all the year than filling a CS300 just in high season.
Riga has a population of 1million and Latvia has a population of 2.
There is only so much "build it and they will come" you can do.


The slide indicates that the operating cost per seat on their example route is 57% less for the CS300 compared to the Q400. If true, that means the CS300 is cheaper to fly regardless of load factor.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:24 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
The slide indicates that the operating cost per seat on their example route is 57% less for the CS300 compared to the Q400. If true, that means the CS300 is cheaper to fly regardless of load factor.


Yeah, I seen that - but couldn't really believe it so thought I was misinterpreting it or miscalculating it.

The CSeries has 90% more seats {[145-76]/76}, or a factor of 1.9x the Q400's seats.

If the CSeries is 57% cheaper per seat, that means it is a factor of 0.43 of the Q400s seat operating costs. 1.9 x 0.43 = 0.82. Or the cost to run the CSeries airframe is 82% of the Q400.

Still don't believe that.




Say they have written it the wrong way around and actually meant the Q400 is 57% more expensive per seat to operate, then the CSeries has a factor of 0.64 of the Q400's seat operating costs. 1.9 x 0.64 = 1.21

To me, that's more realistic.
 
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PW100
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:24 pm

lostsound wrote:
How soon is the mobile CSeries plant supposed to be up and running?

I'd expect any C-series plant to be rather stationary . . . :footinmouth:
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
golfradio
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:35 pm

Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:52 pm

Amiga500 wrote:

If the CSeries is 57% cheaper per seat, that means it is a factor of 0.43 of the Q400s seat operating costs. 1.9 x 0.43 = 0.82. Or the cost to run the CSeries airframe is 82% of the Q400.

Still don't believe that.


I think some information is missing. I would imagine this is based on daily fleet utilization (not per trip) on the same route where they are able to fill up planes. The 40 min lower trip time on the C means they are increasing utilization.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 523
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:37 pm

Good news for the C-series. I believe the partnership with Airbus is going to make a huge difference for this program over the long term.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2523
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Re: Air Baltic orders 30 CS300 + 30 Options/Purchase Rights

Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:00 pm

Good this be an investment of sorts? Take the C-Series they want and sell the rest of slots. As Air Baltic believes once Airbus takes over these planes will be selling like hot cakes.

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