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Pt56
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 1:54 pm

Any one with a background in design knows yellow is a complicated colour brand wise, its normally associated with fun and casual dough also with sickness, blue is the colour equivalent to grey, but also the most universal loved colour, dark blues are normally associated with stable and reliable, ans so ends up being used in banking and ....Airlines.

Blue is used a lot, but its not because of some designers love blue more than any other colour, its because this sort of thing as been tested to nausea. and blue works.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 2:13 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
I think a few of the comments here are entirely unfair towards the two Gentlemen who were interviewed for the article. I'd like to point out that Ronald Wild has been an in-house designer at Lufthansa for years now, and that it was he who led the project to adapt the 1970s/80s retro livery for the Boeing 747-8. You can watch a short film about that project, featuring Wild here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjw0oEeFisM

Describing the designers as "rank amateurs" is not only insulting, it's plain wrong. They are designers working for one of the best airlines in the world - they are at the very top of their field.

Thirdly; this suggestion that they had no respect for the Lufthansa design is also erroneous. The article is very clear that the entire process was undertaken with respect for the brand and its history. I've quoted a portion from the interview below for reference:
(https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/exclusi ... ed-yellow/)

"Ronald Wild: It was always present to us that we were working on an icon. You don’t change these without a valid reason, and of course, that includes sleepless nights.

Because everyone, of course, has this yellow disk on the Lufthansa tails in his mind as it was on our aircraft for 30 years. But now, when I drive around the ramp and see the new livery in context, I am very happy we took this step.

From now on, it’s no longer the yellow disk standing for Lufthansa, but clearly the crane."


In every interview I've seen or read with these guys, they demonstrate a tremendous amount of respect for the history of the airline and are able to clearly explain and articulate the reasons for the changes they've made. I don't know how many people here have actually seen the new branding as applied in real life across the entire passenger experience, but I have and it is a vast improvement. It's cleaner, crisper and far, far more disciplined than the old branding. And yes, the airplanes look good - even on a gray morning in Munich.

Finally, I'd like to quote Herr Schaublitz, because he offers a great explanation about why Lufthansa chose to take the "simple" route instead of opting for something which might be eye-catching for a year or two but age horribly:

"Schlaubitz: The crane is a unique logo. It is as timeless as our entire design. It will be a unique feature for the next 20 years or longer, taking our premium concept to many countries around the world.

Currently, there are multiple trends in airline brand design: The trend towards simplicity and clarity on one side, which we are pursuing.

But also the attempt to score and create awareness with short-lived design gimmicks.

That wasn’t our aim, but we understand why various competitors might have taken that road."

You're wasting your time! It's standard practice to bash new liveries on this site, until they settle in. Then you get the "I didn't liket it at first, but it's starting to grow on me". I've seen it already on here, and you'll see it more into the future. :yes:
 
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UAL747422
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 2:32 pm

well, now they seem like Blue-fthansa
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 2:39 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
I think a few of the comments here are entirely unfair towards the two Gentlemen who were interviewed for the article. I'd like to point out that Ronald Wild has been an in-house designer at Lufthansa for years now, and that it was he who led the project to adapt the 1970s/80s retro livery for the Boeing 747-8. You can watch a short film about that project, featuring Wild here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjw0oEeFisM

Describing the designers as "rank amateurs" is not only insulting, it's plain wrong. They are designers working for one of the best airlines in the world - they are at the very top of their field.

Thirdly; this suggestion that they had no respect for the Lufthansa design is also erroneous. The article is very clear that the entire process was undertaken with respect for the brand and its history. I've quoted a portion from the interview below for reference:
(https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/exclusi ... ed-yellow/)

"Ronald Wild: It was always present to us that we were working on an icon. You don’t change these without a valid reason, and of course, that includes sleepless nights.

Because everyone, of course, has this yellow disk on the Lufthansa tails in his mind as it was on our aircraft for 30 years. But now, when I drive around the ramp and see the new livery in context, I am very happy we took this step.

From now on, it’s no longer the yellow disk standing for Lufthansa, but clearly the crane."


In every interview I've seen or read with these guys, they demonstrate a tremendous amount of respect for the history of the airline and are able to clearly explain and articulate the reasons for the changes they've made. I don't know how many people here have actually seen the new branding as applied in real life across the entire passenger experience, but I have and it is a vast improvement. It's cleaner, crisper and far, far more disciplined than the old branding. And yes, the airplanes look good - even on a gray morning in Munich.

Finally, I'd like to quote Herr Schaublitz, because he offers a great explanation about why Lufthansa chose to take the "simple" route instead of opting for something which might be eye-catching for a year or two but age horribly:

"Schlaubitz: The crane is a unique logo. It is as timeless as our entire design. It will be a unique feature for the next 20 years or longer, taking our premium concept to many countries around the world.

Currently, there are multiple trends in airline brand design: The trend towards simplicity and clarity on one side, which we are pursuing.

But also the attempt to score and create awareness with short-lived design gimmicks.

That wasn’t our aim, but we understand why various competitors might have taken that road."

You're wasting your time! It's standard practice to bash new liveries on this site, until they settle in. Then you get the "I didn't liket it at first, but it's starting to grow on me". I've seen it already on here, and you'll see it more into the future. :yes:


I distinctly recall you commending the original new livery, possibly even going as far as "perfect" (though apologies if putting words in uour mouth), admonishing criticism by the many resident amateurs. Then we saw the change of blue and the scale up of the crane. So do you concede that the professionals get it wrong too? Or were they wrong to change? In either case making them.... incompetent?
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 2:44 pm

Antarius wrote:
This article seems like it was auto generated out of corporate ipsum.

Lots of words, zero things actually said.


Spot on. They obviously circled the wagons and met offline to discuss synergies, then came up with a value added brand
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 2:57 pm

"Yellow and blue used in the same share come across as being too “loud” and not premium.

You wouldn’t buy a deep blue BMW and paint the rear mirrors and doors in yellow. It was our task as designers to separate these traditional Lufthansa colors in a way to assign them with new and clear tasks."

1. Yellow and blue have been the colours for at least 60 years...how is it that they are just now coming across as "loud" and "not premium"?
2. If you ran a commercial fleet of BMWs and wanted to stand out from the competition, you WOULD paint them in colours besides the deep blue.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 3:17 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
It is precisely what you are telling us that is the key of the grave misunderstanding behind this epic PR fail: marketing & graphic design teams should precisely work to address the EMOTIONS (..those "spouted" emotions you refer too...) that the brand will convey to the travelling public, and not -as you seem to state- vice versa, i.e. feeding the bloated ego of an elitist group of overpaid turtle-neck-clad "design gurus". That is precisely the problem.
Designers should be working for others and not for themselves.


When will you guys accept the fact that the emotions of nostalgic aviation enthusiasts weren't the benchmark for this redesign? The emotions of the traveling public do not align with the emotions of raging a.nutters.

For the traveling public, website, cabin, leaflet and menu design matter so much more than the percentage of Eurowhite on the fuselage or whether there is some yellow on the tail. Lufthansa's new tail will be pretty dominant on the world's aprons. The dark blue with the crane is a killer combination. The missing yellow is just something to get used to, and people will...

In 10 years there'll still be a.nutters crying about this livery and telling us why the old ones are always better. I tell you what - as mean as it might sound - no one is going to care...
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 3:30 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
Antarius wrote:
One posted in the thread topic (top) looks like Kuwait Airways.

My first impression was Finnair: that wing on the tail looks like a large F. The other designs are gimmicky. I can see why Lufthansa rejected them. People will get over the yellow, once they get used to the new livery.

BenflysDTW wrote:
I’ve been looking on IG and people are starting to like it, but I still dislike it strongly.

What's IG?

Instagram
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 3:32 pm

This article sounds like Lufthansa trying to convince themselves that this new livery is everything Lufthansa stands for, even if you don't get that from the livery.
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 3:35 pm

umm, NO on the blue = premium. I guess that's why Ryanair, JetBlue, Southwest, etc. all use Blue. I mean, look at Ryanair, the same colors as LH. I guess the low cost airlines are trying to trick us into thinking they are premium. Whoever paid this guy to say that should look at the airlines around them. Blue does not equal premium.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 4:03 pm

FatCat wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Bricktop wrote:

Can we circle back on that later?


Sure, after laterally expanding our conversation with external stakeholders on a wider platform that is collegially shared among peer-reviewed expert panels, and cohesively adjusted vis-à-vis the non-internal pressures being adversely excised on the discourse and affecting the scope of the basics.

Why are you two talking like everyone in every business meeting since always :rotfl:


...Maybe because we have been fed quite an amount of corporate BS throughout our professional lives and we now recognize it from a mile away....
 
KLDC10
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 6:10 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
You're wasting your time! It's standard practice to bash new liveries on this site, until they settle in. Then you get the "I didn't liket it at first, but it's starting to grow on me". I've seen it already on here, and you'll see it more into the future. :yes:


It certainly feels like it! But still, I think it's worth trying to dispel some of the more ridiculous comments. I mean - feel free to dislike the livery, but don't start launching personal attacks on the designers because of it.

At the risk of being flamed further; I'd compare the new Lufthansa livery favorably with that of LATAM. Both are crisp, clean, modern and have the potential to last a long time without significant changes. The difference of course is that Lufthansa already had a solid, recognizable logo, while LATAM had to come up with one from scratch. The one they did come up with, I think, is pretty much timeless unlike, say, the Delta 3D Widget, which is starting to look a bit dated nowadays. A flat Widget would be perfect. But anyway, I'd better keep my minimalist mouth shut! :duck:

Lilienthal wrote:
When will you guys accept the fact that the emotions of nostalgic aviation enthusiasts weren't the benchmark for this redesign? The emotions of the traveling public do not align with the emotions of raging a.nutters.

For the traveling public, website, cabin, leaflet and menu design matter so much more than the percentage of Eurowhite on the fuselage or whether there is some yellow on the tail. Lufthansa's new tail will be pretty dominant on the world's aprons. The dark blue with the crane is a killer combination. The missing yellow is just something to get used to, and people will...

In 10 years there'll still be a.nutters crying about this livery and telling us why the old ones are always better. I tell you what - as mean as it might sound - no one is going to care...


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

aerokiwi wrote:
I distinctly recall you commending the original new livery, possibly even going as far as "perfect" (though apologies if putting words in uour mouth), admonishing criticism by the many resident amateurs. Then we saw the change of blue and the scale up of the crane. So do you concede that the professionals get it wrong too? Or were they wrong to change? In either case making them.... incompetent?


Not sure which one of us you are referring to, since as I recall we both made positive comments about the livery at the time. But in my opinion the willingness the designers have shown to tweak the livery in order to optimize it show that they're humble and honest enough to see a problem and fix it. In the article, this was discussed, and the explanation given there was more than satisfactory.
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 6:20 pm

workhorse wrote:
Easy: because having one less color in the livery (actually two, because they got rid of the grey as well), reduces the number of paint buckets to keep in the maintenance shop.

Before, they had to keep one big bucket of white and three small buckets of Blue, yellow and grey. Now, a big bucket of white and a small bucket of blue. Takes less space, easier to provision --> PROFIT!

Also, the overall surface of the plane covered by white color (the cheapest) has increased, while the surface covered by more expensive colors has been reduced --> PROFIT!


I tend to agree, this is about money and savings for maintenance. While the new livery is not bad it is missing something that made it very easy to know "Lufthansa!". They should have figured out so way to keep that. (And all the designer lingo and pandering can go in those bins they made.)

Tugg
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 6:47 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
I distinctly recall you commending the original new livery, possibly even going as far as "perfect" (though apologies if putting words in uour mouth), admonishing criticism by the many resident amateurs. Then we saw the change of blue and the scale up of the crane. So do you concede that the professionals get it wrong too? Or were they wrong to change? In either case making them.... incompetent?

I'm flattered that my posts made such a lasting impression, but I don't recall using the word "perfect". I remember calling it "smart, clean, a future classic, superb, very German, cool, minimalist" . . . among other things. I was judging the livery by the computer-generated images used, which, didn't replicate on the painted aircraft on a dull day in Frankfurt. On a sunny day I'm sure it would've been fine, but I can see the reason for the change: the shade is not that important. I just love the completely white body and wings with that dark blue slash on the tail. It really makes the old livery look very dated now.

KLDC10 wrote:
I mean - feel free to dislike the livery, but don't start launching personal attacks on the designers because of it.

Nothing new here, unfortunately. Gustav Eiffel was subjected to similar outrage and criticism when he constructed his famous tower.
 
gzm
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 7:30 pm

Eiffel tower was impossible to dismantle after that Expo in the late 1800s and that is what caused the outrage. It should be a lot easier to make some alterations in the new livery. After all this livery does not stand out from a distance....
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 7:52 pm

gzm wrote:
Eiffel tower was impossible to dismantle after that Expo in the late 1800s and that is what caused the outrage. It should be a lot easier to make some alterations in the new livery. After all this livery does not stand out from a distance....

From a letter to Le Temps:
"We, writers, painters, sculptors, architects and passionate devotees of the hitherto untouched beauty of Paris, protest with all our strength, with all our indignation in the name of slighted French taste, against the erection…of this useless and monstrous Eiffel Tower…To bring our arguments home, imagine for a moment a giddy, ridiculous tower dominating Paris like a gigantic black smokestack, crushing under its barbaric bulk Notre Dame, the Tour Saint-Jacques, the Louvre, the Dome of les Invalides, the Arc de Triomphe, all of our humiliated monuments will disappear in this ghastly dream. And for twenty years…we shall see stretching like a blot of ink the hateful shadow of the hateful column of bolted sheet metal."

It had also been called "truly tragic street lamp", a "mast of iron gymnasium apparatus", and "a hole-riddled suppository".

Sound familiar?
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Nami wrote:
workhorse wrote:
To contrast with Lufthansa, look at Finnair. It has two colors too, and white is even more dominant than in LH. And yet, Finnair's livery is classy. Why? Because it has been designed with the brand image in mind, not the cost savings. Think Finland -> snow -> cleanliness -> minimalistic design...

I have to say I wouldn’t be surprised if the same blunder with the shade of color happened to Finnair as well but they just never bothered to admit and change it. In the renders it clearly looks blue, but in real life it’s much too dark. I like the typeface and tail logo but in my eyes AY’s livery would look so much better with subtle changes, slightly lighter shade of blue and inverted colors in the tail.

Funnily enough reading old interviews from 2010 AY repeated the same mantra as LH now by saying that dark blue is a more dignified color than light blue.


To be honest, I always believed that Finnair's blue was the Finnish flag's blue (which, in its turn, represents Finland's thousands of lakes). Now that you made me look at it more attentively, yeah, maybe it's a bit darker. I guess it depends a lot on the lighting. I think the current dark blue looks great in Vantaa's long sunsets.

But anyway, my point was the totally different mindset at AY and LH.

The brief that AY's management gave to designers was likely: "Do something that expresses Finland". And when they did, it so happened (surprise!) that it was white and blue.

And at LH: "Do something with two colors and mostly white! We'll write some marketing gibberish later to explain it."
 
787Driver
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 9:34 pm

Lol “premium airline” my a.. I really don’t like that updated new livery. Looks like a FedEx freighter.

Last week they first delayed my flight three times and in their mobile app they were quick to inform me that currently I didn’t have any right to compensation. As the time got closer to midnight they finally cancelled the flight without giving a reason or any other info. Suddenly in their mobile app, there’s now nowhere to find info about my right for compensation at all. I wait in line for two hours at a service desk along with all my fellow passengers (time is now around midnight) only to learn that all they can offer me is a hotel room 1,5 hours drive away and rebook me on a flight early next morning (effectively making the effort to get to and from the hotel too much of a hassle relative to the amount of sleep I would get before having to wake up) but now with a stop in Munich so that I’ll end up arriving almost 24 hours too late and a 10 euro voucher. I ended up sleeping in the terminal and have now tried to claim compensation which they unjustifiably rejected and a case is now being opened against them thanks to a third party company who will charge 25% of the compensation fee.

All I can say is F U and now I can understand why Ryanair is getting more and more popular. Same lack of service as LH but at a much cheaper price. Lost all respect for LH
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Tue May 29, 2018 11:04 pm

caflyboy wrote:
umm, NO on the blue = premium. I guess that's why Ryanair, JetBlue, Southwest, etc. all use Blue. I mean, look at Ryanair, the same colors as LH. I guess the low cost airlines are trying to trick us into thinking they are premium. Whoever paid this guy to say that should look at the airlines around them. Blue does not equal premium.


I'm not sure B6 or WN really qualify as low cost anymore. I see B6 as more of a major regional while WN is a major albeit not a legacy. FR is LCC in terms of its cost structure
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 12:18 am

gatibosgru wrote:
This article sounds like Lufthansa trying to convince themselves that this new livery is everything Lufthansa stands for, even if you don't get that from the livery.


It’s actually the guy from the design firm... justifying the large invoice to LH!
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 2:29 am

Make the bird yellow. And they should put smaller blue birds on the sides of the engines
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 2:37 am

Braybuddy wrote:
You're wasting your time! It's standard practice to bash new liveries on this site, until they settle in. Then you get the "I didn't liket it at first, but it's starting to grow on me". I've seen it already on here, and you'll see it more into the future. :yes:


You're mixing a dislike for change from some and a dislike of the end product from others.

I didnt have an issue with LH changing their livery. Just expected it to be an improvement and not a drab forgettable plane on the tarmac.
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gzm
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 3:52 am

If it has to be a two-colour livery, they should try painting the disc white. I am sure the tail will look better from a distance.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 5:37 am

Braybuddy wrote:
You're wasting your time! It's standard practice to bash new liveries on this site, until they settle in. Then you get the "I didn't liket it at first, but it's starting to grow on me". I've seen it already on here, and you'll see it more into the future. :yes:


Just because a person eventually gets used to something they hated, it doesn't mean that hated thing eventually got good. Think of it like the Stockholm syndrome or being the smallest guy in a prison cell. Eventually, you just stop fighting if only that it makes what you hate, seem to suck slightly less.

It still sucks.
What the...?
 
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 9:19 am

questions wrote:
It’s actually the guy from the design firm... justifying the large invoice to LH!


Again, as should be clear by now: This design was done in-house by Lufthansa.

Alexander Schaublitz is the Vice-President of Marketing at Lufthansa.
Ronald Wild is Lufthansa's top in-house Designer.
They are not consultants. They do not work for an external design firm.

These are the two individuals who led the redesign project, and who were interviewed for the article which, apparently, few people bothered to read because all of
this information is in there. In fact, here's a direct quote (emphasis mine):

"In an exclusive interview, Lufthansa’s marketing chief Alexander Schlaubitz and designer Ronald Wild reveal to Airways why the airline dropped the iconic yellow from its new livery."


Interview here: https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/exclusi ... ed-yellow/
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Asturias
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 10:03 am

I don't mind the color scheme at all, and I can see that this shade of blue commands a certain premium feel - blue has been a premium color for us since the Roman Empire, probably longer - but the style... it's like so many other styles, immediately I thought of the Airbus corporate style, QANTAS and FedEx.

The blue is fine and losing the gold is questionable, but it does bring more attention to the crane - so it's defensible from a certain perspective, but the style could not be more non-premium. It's like a template, and templates are not premium.
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 10:10 am

workhorse wrote:
Nami wrote:
workhorse wrote:
To contrast with Lufthansa, look at Finnair. It has two colors too, and white is even more dominant than in LH. And yet, Finnair's livery is classy. Why? Because it has been designed with the brand image in mind, not the cost savings. Think Finland -> snow -> cleanliness -> minimalistic design...

I have to say I wouldn’t be surprised if the same blunder with the shade of color happened to Finnair as well but they just never bothered to admit and change it. In the renders it clearly looks blue, but in real life it’s much too dark. I like the typeface and tail logo but in my eyes AY’s livery would look so much better with subtle changes, slightly lighter shade of blue and inverted colors in the tail.

Funnily enough reading old interviews from 2010 AY repeated the same mantra as LH now by saying that dark blue is a more dignified color than light blue.


To be honest, I always believed that Finnair's blue was the Finnish flag's blue (which, in its turn, represents Finland's thousands of lakes). Now that you made me look at it more attentively, yeah, maybe it's a bit darker. I guess it depends a lot on the lighting. I think the current dark blue looks great in Vantaa's long sunsets.

But anyway, my point was the totally different mindset at AY and LH.

The brief that AY's management gave to designers was likely: "Do something that expresses Finland". And when they did, it so happened (surprise!) that it was white and blue.

And at LH: "Do something with two colors and mostly white! We'll write some marketing gibberish later to explain it."


I think the problem is that the design goals of LH are not the same as those of many enthusiasts.

The first target of the re-brand was to modernize the branding so that it looks better on digital devices, then the goal was to improve the branding at airport, in lounges and inside the planes and the final idea was to take that branding and make a livery out of it that won´t look bad in the next 30 years. The goal was not to come up with a livery that is extravagant or even overly modern. The goal was timeless, clean and premium, but not in a bling-bling goldish kind of way, but more in a very reduced Bauhaus-like way. And while I think the livery is boring and maybe dull, because the core values, that they want the customer to feel, is reliability, efficiency and quality.

In the end the criticism is more or less the same as when LH went from the blue cheatline to the white/grey fuselage in 1980ies. Again there the brand was taken from the 1960ies into the very early digital age.

And to be honest outside the aviation nerds the reaction is overly positive: https://www.underconsideration.com/bran ... _house.php
 
workhorse
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 10:43 am

seahawk wrote:
The goal was not to come up with a livery that is extravagant or even overly modern. The goal was timeless, clean and premium, but not in a bling-bling goldish kind of way, but more in a very reduced Bauhaus-like way. And while I think the livery is boring and maybe dull, because the core values, that they want the customer to feel, is reliability, efficiency and quality.


Well, if the intended message was that, they failed!

The message I receive is: "cheap", "we don't care", "it's an airplane, not a work of art, what do you want?", "the airplane is to transport passengers, not to be stared at", "people only care about price and schedule" etc.
 
workhorse
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 10:48 am

seahawk wrote:
reliability, efficiency and quality.


...and, by the way, these values were already perfectly expressed by the existing livery, there was absolutely no need to change it then.

The only compelling reason to change was cost reduction, which is what this redesign was about from the very beginning.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 11:09 am

Goodbye wrote:
It makes perfect sense. From a marketing perspective (I work in marketing and graphic design so I know what I'm talking about - not just spouting emotion without any foundation like so many here), the new livery does evoke a much more premium feel than the previous. Dark blue and white is a timeless combination that will always be a "premium" combination. Yellow can cheapen a brand, and with a dated livery like the previous LH one, it didn't relate at all to the way they want to be perceived.


I think Singapore Airlines marketing people disagree with you and LH
 
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seahawk
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 11:24 am

workhorse wrote:
seahawk wrote:
reliability, efficiency and quality.


...and, by the way, these values were already perfectly expressed by the existing livery, there was absolutely no need to change it then.

The only compelling reason to change was cost reduction, which is what this redesign was about from the very beginning.


I for one understand the idea that the tail should reflect the airline logo shown in the digital media. That was one of the weaknesses of the old livery, that the crane got lost in it when shown in small thumbnails typical for booking websites, so that the used symbol was already much closer to the new livery anyway.
 
mats01776
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 12:03 pm

Goodbye wrote:
It makes perfect sense. From a marketing perspective (I work in marketing and graphic design so I know what I'm talking about - not just spouting emotion without any foundation like so many here), the new livery does evoke a much more premium feel than the previous. Dark blue and white is a timeless combination that will always be a "premium" combination. Yellow can cheapen a brand, and with a dated livery like the previous LH one, it didn't relate at all to the way they want to be perceived.


Perhaps the above quote should be classified under "the operation was a success, but the patient died" file.
Saying "the new livery does evoke a much more premium feel than the previous" is as much of "spouting emotion without any foundation" as any other.

No.
No symbol has a meaning in a vacuum.

BMW's blue and white roundel and Mercedes' three-pointed star evoke "the sense of quality" not because those symbols are inherently "premium", but because they represent the high quality products that were actually produced over many years.

Or, just look at the logo of Apple Corporation: An outline of an apple with a bite taken out.
Does the idea of of "an apple with a bite taken out" inherently evoke "a more premium feel"?

No.

But the Apple Corporation's logo evokes a sense of excellence and quality because of the long line of the successful products marketed under that symbol.

By the way, given that a shade of "yellow" is present in the tri-colour flag of Germany, a judicious use of yellow in a livery is easily justified.

Just my humble opinion, of course.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 1:44 pm

mats01776 wrote:
Goodbye wrote:
It makes perfect sense. From a marketing perspective (I work in marketing and graphic design so I know what I'm talking about - not just spouting emotion without any foundation like so many here), the new livery does evoke a much more premium feel than the previous. Dark blue and white is a timeless combination that will always be a "premium" combination. Yellow can cheapen a brand, and with a dated livery like the previous LH one, it didn't relate at all to the way they want to be perceived.


Perhaps the above quote should be classified under "the operation was a success, but the patient died" file.
Saying "the new livery does evoke a much more premium feel than the previous" is as much of "spouting emotion without any foundation" as any other.

No.
No symbol has a meaning in a vacuum.

BMW's blue and white roundel and Mercedes' three-pointed star evoke "the sense of quality" not because those symbols are inherently "premium", but because they represent the high quality products that were actually produced over many years.

Or, just look at the logo of Apple Corporation: An outline of an apple with a bite taken out.
Does the idea of of "an apple with a bite taken out" inherently evoke "a more premium feel"?

No.

But the Apple Corporation's logo evokes a sense of excellence and quality because of the long line of the successful products marketed under that symbol.

By the way, given that a shade of "yellow" is present in the tri-colour flag of Germany, a judicious use of yellow in a livery is easily justified.

Just my humble opinion, of course.


Lufthansa has survived 3 different German flags, so the colours they use have no connection to the flag anyway.
 
artofzen
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 3:47 pm

workhorse wrote:
seahawk wrote:
reliability, efficiency and quality.


...and, by the way, these values were already perfectly expressed by the existing livery, there was absolutely no need to change it then.


Exactly, only a tweak was needed, like so.

Image
 
Redd
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 3:56 pm

I wonder how many millions they'd paid PWC to come to the conclusion that yellow doesn't denote 'premium'... Quick, someone tell Emirates & Etihad. New livery looks like it belongs on an ULCC
 
amax1977
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 3:58 pm

LH’s new livery is just as ugly as it can get. The philosophy behind the new livery seems nothing but cost cutting in the fleet’s painting. How? By keeping entire plan in factory while color and paint only the tail with only one tone of cheap blue paint. What a shame! That happened to the good old glorious Lufthansa? Congratulations, LH! Now you have the ugliest livery in Europe!
 
artofzen
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 4:08 pm

amax1977 wrote:
Congratulations, LH! Now you have the ugliest livery in Europe!

And outdated, its a design idea from 1974 on UTA and 1985 on Qantas.
 
gzm
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 4:55 pm

If you search in the Photos under "Lufthansa 737-200" you will see various experimental liveries that were not adopted for one reason or another. So don't worry. The new experimental one won't be adopted either. They are testing the water. But as you will see, they have lost their "premium livery" long ago....The new one looks like an unpainted plastic Revell model.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 5:26 pm

Mixed feelings about this. I never saw that color as yellow but goldenrod, which is a huge difference. That said, I love the new tail design. But, as Enilria said, too many airlines use blue, and the new colors do not make the aircraft standout. One idea would have been to scratch the blue and gold altogether and use black and red, the two other colors on the German flag. Unfortunately, when mixed with white, that has other connotations.
 
questions
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 10:43 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
questions wrote:
It’s actually the guy from the design firm... justifying the large invoice to LH!


Again, as should be clear by now: This design was done in-house by Lufthansa.

Alexander Schaublitz is the Vice-President of Marketing at Lufthansa.
Ronald Wild is Lufthansa's top in-house Designer.
They are not consultants. They do not work for an external design firm.

These are the two individuals who led the redesign project, and who were interviewed for the article which, apparently, few people bothered to read because all of
this information is in there. In fact, here's a direct quote (emphasis mine):

"In an exclusive interview, Lufthansa’s marketing chief Alexander Schlaubitz and designer Ronald Wild reveal to Airways why the airline dropped the iconic yellow from its new livery."


Interview here: https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/exclusi ... ed-yellow/


Thanks for the clarification. I’ll clarify...

The VP of Marketing at Lufthansa and Lufthansa’s top in-house designer justifying their large base plus variable compensation packages.
 
Antarius
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Wed May 30, 2018 10:53 pm

seahawk wrote:
workhorse wrote:
Nami wrote:
I have to say I wouldn’t be surprised if the same blunder with the shade of color happened to Finnair as well but they just never bothered to admit and change it. In the renders it clearly looks blue, but in real life it’s much too dark. I like the typeface and tail logo but in my eyes AY’s livery would look so much better with subtle changes, slightly lighter shade of blue and inverted colors in the tail.

Funnily enough reading old interviews from 2010 AY repeated the same mantra as LH now by saying that dark blue is a more dignified color than light blue.


To be honest, I always believed that Finnair's blue was the Finnish flag's blue (which, in its turn, represents Finland's thousands of lakes). Now that you made me look at it more attentively, yeah, maybe it's a bit darker. I guess it depends a lot on the lighting. I think the current dark blue looks great in Vantaa's long sunsets.

But anyway, my point was the totally different mindset at AY and LH.

The brief that AY's management gave to designers was likely: "Do something that expresses Finland". And when they did, it so happened (surprise!) that it was white and blue.

And at LH: "Do something with two colors and mostly white! We'll write some marketing gibberish later to explain it."


I think the problem is that the design goals of LH are not the same as those of many enthusiasts.

The first target of the re-brand was to modernize the branding so that it looks better on digital devices, then the goal was to improve the branding at airport, in lounges and inside the planes and the final idea was to take that branding and make a livery out of it that won´t look bad in the next 30 years. The goal was not to come up with a livery that is extravagant or even overly modern. The goal was timeless, clean and premium, but not in a bling-bling goldish kind of way, but more in a very reduced Bauhaus-like way. And while I think the livery is boring and maybe dull, because the core values, that they want the customer to feel, is reliability, efficiency and quality.

In the end the criticism is more or less the same as when LH went from the blue cheatline to the white/grey fuselage in 1980ies. Again there the brand was taken from the 1960ies into the very early digital age.

And to be honest outside the aviation nerds the reaction is overly positive: https://www.underconsideration.com/bran ... _house.php


No one said don't rebrand. That isn't the same as accepting any rebrand as successful. No problem with giving the old livery a facelift, but again, that isn't carte blanche to produce a dull monolith.

As for the livery, they already had to change the size of the logo and shade. AFTER painting an aircraft. Sorry, that does not inspire confidence in their thought process, thoroughness or anything. Those as absolute basics that should be caught in prototyping. Not AFTER you roll it out.
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Thu May 31, 2018 6:13 am

Antarius wrote:
You're mixing a dislike for change from some and a dislike of the end product from others.

It's a GIVEN that there will be howls of anguish on here at any attempt to change a livery that has been around for any length of time. This is what people do on airliners.net. :yes:
 
ELBOB
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Thu May 31, 2018 6:41 am

Goodbye wrote:
Dark blue and white is a timeless combination that will always be a "premium" combination. Yellow can cheapen a brand, and with a dated livery like the previous LH one, it didn't relate at all to the way they want to be perceived.


By that standard the most premium airline in the World must be Blue Air; even their name is Blue!

You have heard of them, right?

Post #133 hit it onthe head; no colour is 'premium' without a context. Blue was premium to the Egyptians because it was such a difficult and expensive pigment to make. Gold is not premium unless you understand the value of the metal.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Thu May 31, 2018 6:50 am

Antarius wrote:
seahawk wrote:
workhorse wrote:

To be honest, I always believed that Finnair's blue was the Finnish flag's blue (which, in its turn, represents Finland's thousands of lakes). Now that you made me look at it more attentively, yeah, maybe it's a bit darker. I guess it depends a lot on the lighting. I think the current dark blue looks great in Vantaa's long sunsets.

But anyway, my point was the totally different mindset at AY and LH.

The brief that AY's management gave to designers was likely: "Do something that expresses Finland". And when they did, it so happened (surprise!) that it was white and blue.

And at LH: "Do something with two colors and mostly white! We'll write some marketing gibberish later to explain it."


I think the problem is that the design goals of LH are not the same as those of many enthusiasts.

The first target of the re-brand was to modernize the branding so that it looks better on digital devices, then the goal was to improve the branding at airport, in lounges and inside the planes and the final idea was to take that branding and make a livery out of it that won´t look bad in the next 30 years. The goal was not to come up with a livery that is extravagant or even overly modern. The goal was timeless, clean and premium, but not in a bling-bling goldish kind of way, but more in a very reduced Bauhaus-like way. And while I think the livery is boring and maybe dull, because the core values, that they want the customer to feel, is reliability, efficiency and quality.

In the end the criticism is more or less the same as when LH went from the blue cheatline to the white/grey fuselage in 1980ies. Again there the brand was taken from the 1960ies into the very early digital age.

And to be honest outside the aviation nerds the reaction is overly positive: https://www.underconsideration.com/bran ... _house.php


No one said don't rebrand. That isn't the same as accepting any rebrand as successful. No problem with giving the old livery a facelift, but again, that isn't carte blanche to produce a dull monolith.

As for the livery, they already had to change the size of the logo and shade. AFTER painting an aircraft. Sorry, that does not inspire confidence in their thought process, thoroughness or anything. Those as absolute basics that should be caught in prototyping. Not AFTER you roll it out.


Imho the livery does not matter. Everything else of the rebrand is more important than the livery. People need to understand that what is said about the colours is not meant for the livery only, it is meant for the whole brand.
 
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Istanbuler83
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Thu May 31, 2018 1:43 pm

I would love to see this one here. The new one is way too simple for a "premium" airline.Image
Istanbuler83
 
FatCat
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Thu May 31, 2018 2:01 pm

Anyone has some news about re-painted A346s?
Can't wait to see it in the new livery. :-)
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glideslope
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Thu May 31, 2018 2:25 pm

LH will have to modify this livery at some point. Just a splash of yellow on the vertical stab is enough for me.
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Thu May 31, 2018 2:48 pm

The classic LH livery was on my short list of those that didn't need to be messed with, but the concept the OP shared looks pretty sharp. Wish they'd gone with something like that instead of sterilizing a great livery that looked good on everything.
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Thu May 31, 2018 3:01 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
It was led by Lufthansa themselves, rather than the airline simply handing a group of consultants a brief and waiting to see what they came up with. And that's important because Lufthansa exerted control over the entire process from beginning to end.

I wonder how these leaders with regard to brand perception address the simple perception that the elimination of a third color is being done simply because LH is too cheap to spend the extra money on the third color?
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gzm
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Re: Lufthansa Reveals Why It Dropped Yellow From Its Livery (Interview)

Thu May 31, 2018 3:26 pm

The will modify it. Just as TWA did with their new livery after 1974, when they had to fill in the outline of the letters TRANS WORLD because it was necessary. I believe after a few months LH will do the same in the circle either with yellow or with white but they will, they will finally admit it. For the time being they are under the impression they have produced a work of art that is why they insist. Before long this livery will belong to the circle of lost poetic hanseatic liveries. And there have been quite a few.

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