User avatar
Boeing778X
Topic Author
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 8:02 pm

An interesting article, though not very surprising.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... th-448910/

Vasu Raja, vice-president of network & schedule planning at American states:

"There is definitely some growth built into our fleet plan," he says. "Buying new planes is just one way to achieve that growth. Others include using larger aircraft, flying them farther… or using our aircraft throughout more of the day, meaning scheduling them more efficiently."

The question referred to American's order for 47 787s, including 22 -8s and 25 -9s, in April. The airline emphasised at the time that the deal was to replace its Airbus A330-300, Boeing 767-300ER and some of its 777-200 fleets, and not for growth."


He also reiterated that the carrier is "always looking out into the future to evaluate our long-term needs" when it comes to aircraft."

Personally, I still believe AA will eventually operate both the 787-10 and 777X (The -9.) They are in a perfect position for growth and as time progresses, the need will arise.

Thoughts?
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
NateGreat
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 8:06 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
They appear to be trying to modernize their fleet and be efficient as possible.....just hope all this capital outlay doesn't bite them in the future...they definitely can use the 78-10 on trunks routes to S.America and Europe and 777-9 can be used wherever the 777W currently flies as their flagship service.....

And possible expansion of flagship to hubs like CLT and PHL.
 
TropicalSky
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 1:37 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 8:11 pm

They appear to be trying to modernize their fleet and be efficient as possible.....just hope all this capital outlay doesn't bite them in the future...they definitely can use the 78-10 on trunks routes to S.America and Europe and 777-9 can be used wherever the 777W currently flies as their flagship service.....
 
kaitak
Posts: 9666
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 8:22 pm

I'd be more positive about the 787-10 than the 779; the 787-10 looks like being an ideal t/a aircraft and could replace the A333s and 772s on many routes.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 8:44 pm

kaitak wrote:
I'd be more positive about the 787-10 than the 779; the 787-10 looks like being an ideal t/a aircraft and could replace the A333s and 772s on many routes.

They could eventually order the 779 for high-density flagship routes to/from LHR, GRU, HKG & SYD to perform alongside the 77W. However, a big reason why AA just placed another big 787 order seems to be for fleet commonality, to operate a large fleet of the same aircraft type. I could definitely see an order for the 787-10 for busier routes, and maybe a somewhat small order for the 779 to pair with 77W on the high-density flagship routes.
 
jfk777
Posts: 6973
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 10:25 pm

AA is one of the last airlines to place a large 77W order so it probably will one of the last to buy the 777-9. The 787 order AA just placed is for replacement of the A330-300 and 767 fleets. AA has time to figure out what they are going to do to replace their 47 777-200ER fleet before they replace the 77W fleet.

The question of where more 777 or 787 will fly needs to be asked ? AA already flies to Tokyo, Peking, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Seoul in Asia plus Sydney, Australia. Its covers Latin America better then any other airline and covers the main cities in Europe especially London. More planes mean more frequencies on existing routes unless AA suddenly starts flying to India, Africa or the Middle East which seems unlikely.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 10:42 pm

This goes hand in hand with comments from annual leadership conference that AA does not see the need for larger capacity frames.

As was explained, they rather see high load factors and have better ability to yield manage on the year-round basis on a smaller frame, than have a larger frame that while possibly very useful for some routes and part of the year, could be a liability other times.
Additionally, the desire to simplify the fleet and have a frame that can be utilized broadly across the entire network also is a key consideration.

NateGreat wrote:
They could eventually order the 779 for high-density flagship routes to/from LHR, GRU, HKG & SYD to perform alongside the 77W.


77W is already off SYD, while both LHR and GRU especially see other types increasingly also.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
Planeyguy
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:12 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 11:41 pm

So does this also mean Airbus aircraft like the A350-900 and A350-1000 are also out of the question?
 
Antarius
Posts: 1552
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 11:46 pm

janders wrote:
This goes hand in hand with comments from annual leadership conference that AA does not see the need for larger capacity frames.

As was explained, they rather see high load factors and have better ability to yield manage on the year-round basis on a smaller frame, than have a larger frame that while possibly very useful for some routes and part of the year, could be a liability other times.
Additionally, the desire to simplify the fleet and have a frame that can be utilized broadly across the entire network also is a key consideration.

NateGreat wrote:
They could eventually order the 779 for high-density flagship routes to/from LHR, GRU, HKG & SYD to perform alongside the 77W.


77W is already off SYD, while both LHR and GRU especially see other types increasingly also.


This.

And as you said, they have 77Ws for that exact purpose. They can be rotated to high yield situations or destinations as needed.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Antarius
Posts: 1552
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 11:47 pm

Planeyguy wrote:
So does this also mean Airbus aircraft like the A350-900 and A350-1000 are also out of the question?


AA just cancelled their A350 order. So for now, yes.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Mon May 28, 2018 11:58 pm

Keep in mind that AA has a TON of debt. IIRC, its the highest debt amount among the big three and one of the highest of any airline in the world.

Simplifying their fleet plan will cut maintenance, parts and training costs. Given we are likely coming to a point before long where there is a slow down in airline traffic/profits, AA would do well to cut debt rather than order a ton of new aircraft to fuel growth which may not materialize.
 
LovePrunesAnet
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:04 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 3:15 am

NateGreat wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
They appear to be trying to modernize their fleet and be efficient as possible.....just hope all this capital outlay doesn't bite them in the future...they definitely can use the 78-10 on trunks routes to S.America and Europe and 777-9 can be used wherever the 777W currently flies as their flagship service.....

And possible expansion of flagship to hubs like CLT and PHL.

PHL flagship lounge is already planned. CLT is the only one that'll be missing, or about which nothing's been said yet or leaked out.
 
User avatar
rotating14
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:54 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 4:19 am

kaitak wrote:
I'd be more positive about the 787-10 than the 779; the 787-10 looks like being an ideal t/a aircraft and could replace the A333s and 772s on many routes.



Correct. Buying a new aircraft that can seat 400 plus passengers makes zero sense when their largest aircraft only seats 310 and paint on the 77Ws still hasn't dried yet. If they do buy the 777-8 or - 9, it'll be far into the future, reminiscent of when they bought the 77Ws.
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8291
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 8:55 am

I remain hopeful that the A350-900 & -1000 enter the fleet in the future as 777-200ER & -300ER replacements, though the latter are some years away for sure!!
111,732,733,734,735,736,73G,738,739,7M8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312,313,318,319,320,20N,321,332,333,342,343,345,346,388,CS1,CS3,I86,154,SSJ,CRJ,CR7,CR9,145,170,175,220
 
User avatar
cv990Coronado
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:38 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 1:16 pm

As they were only late customers for the 77W, maybe with frequency adjustments and joint venture partners they can have an all 787 fleet. Boring for us but very efficient I would think. Or as a second option and to keep Boeing honest, about the time of the replacement of the 77W and late model 777ER's some A350-1000 and 359's if they need a little more than the 789 for certain routes.
SSC-707B727 737-741234SP757/762/3/772/WA300/10/319/2/1-342/3/6-880-DAM-VC10 TRD 111 Ju52-DC8/9/10/11-YS11-748-VCV DH4B L
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 17683
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 1:23 pm

I'm becoming concerned about AA's debt load. Shouldn't they worry first about paying down a bit of that debt?
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
raylee67
Posts: 675
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 1:30 pm

I think 78J has a range problem. It can't do trans-Pac, so it would be limited to Atlantic and Latam routes for AA.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 351 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1464
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 1:31 pm

Considering the 788 seats more than the 763 and the 789 seat more than the 772 (and only 6 less than the 333, of which there are only 9), seems like there will be some growth in seats with this order.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
User avatar
AirCal737
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:17 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 1:34 pm

rotating14 wrote:
kaitak wrote:
I'd be more positive about the 787-10 than the 779; the 787-10 looks like being an ideal t/a aircraft and could replace the A333s and 772s on many routes.



Correct. Buying a new aircraft that can seat 400 plus passengers makes zero sense when their largest aircraft only seats 310 and paint on the 77Ws still hasn't dried yet. If they do buy the 777-8 or - 9, it'll be far into the future, reminiscent of when they bought the 77Ws.
 
User avatar
AirCal737
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:17 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 1:38 pm

rotating14 wrote:
kaitak wrote:
I'd be more positive about the 787-10 than the 779; the 787-10 looks like being an ideal t/a aircraft and could replace the A333s and 772s on many routes.



Correct. Buying a new aircraft that can seat 400 plus passengers makes zero sense when their largest aircraft only seats 310 and paint on the 77Ws still hasn't dried yet. If they do buy the 777-8 or - 9, it'll be far into the future, reminiscent of when they bought the 77Ws.

Not exactly. A 779 would seat no where near a 400 in a similar configuration density to a 310-seat 77W. It would be like around 335
 
caverunner17
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 1:46 pm

raylee67 wrote:
I think 78J has a range problem. It can't do trans-Pac, so it would be limited to Atlantic and Latam routes for AA.

Yes, it can, although limited. It would have few issues flying to NRT from ORD and especially LAX and LAX-PEK.

That said, hasn't AA turned all of their TPAC flying to the 787 already, except for the couple of routes on the 77W.
 
FatCat
Posts: 909
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 1:50 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
Considering the 788 seats more than the 763 and the 789 seat more than the 772 (and only 6 less than the 333, of which there are only 9), seems like there will be some growth in seats with this order.

Agreeing with your consideration, there can be little to no space at all for the 779, if the 77W place will be taken by 787-10s, am I right?
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
osupoke07
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:39 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 1:56 pm

rotating14 wrote:
kaitak wrote:
I'd be more positive about the 787-10 than the 779; the 787-10 looks like being an ideal t/a aircraft and could replace the A333s and 772s on many routes.



Correct. Buying a new aircraft that can seat 400 plus passengers makes zero sense when their largest aircraft only seats 310 and paint on the 77Ws still hasn't dried yet. If they do buy the 777-8 or - 9, it'll be far into the future, reminiscent of when they bought the 77Ws.


The 777-9 is only 2.9M (113 inches) longer than a 77W. Assuming all of that is available for extra seats and using AA's current pitch on the 77W, https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ameri ... 300_ER.php, they could potentially have the following seat counts depending on door placement.

1 business / 1 MCE / 1 economy = 110 inches / 23 additional seats = 333 total seats

1 MCE / 2 economy = 98 inches / 29 additional seats = 339 total seats

It's not a huge jump in capacity, about 7-9%. Once the 77W start aging and if global air traffic continues to increase, it seems like a natural addition to their fleet, albeit probably in the late 2020's.
MD82, MD83, MD88, B717, B732, B733, B735, B737, B738, B739, B752, B763, B77W, CR2, CR7, CR9, A320, A321
 
JustSomeDood
Posts: 377
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:05 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 2:06 pm

FatCat wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Considering the 788 seats more than the 763 and the 789 seat more than the 772 (and only 6 less than the 333, of which there are only 9), seems like there will be some growth in seats with this order.

Agreeing with your consideration, there can be little to no space at all for the 779, if the 77W place will be taken by 787-10s, am I right?


AA uses the 77W on TPAC routes like LAX-HKG, DFW-HKG. A 787-10 doesn't have the range-payload for those routes and a 789 would be very significant downsizing.
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 2164
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 2:37 pm

What’s this talk about A350-1000s replacing the 777-300ER at AA? It’ll probably be the mid-2030s by the time they’re due for replacement. I’d really be surprised if those planes are still even in production by the time the replacement cycle is due.

AA isn’t SQ or EK. They’re not retiring planes after 12 years of service.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 14870
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 2:53 pm

The 779 is big for AA. Maybe the 778 isn’t efficient enough. And the 78J isn’t capable enough. So there’s no aircraft at Boeing that AA would want right now.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13025
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 3:02 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
An interesting article, though not very surprising.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... th-448910/

Vasu Raja, vice-president of network & schedule planning at American states:

"There is definitely some growth built into our fleet plan," he says. "Buying new planes is just one way to achieve that growth. Others include using larger aircraft, flying them farther… or using our aircraft throughout more of the day, meaning scheduling them more efficiently."

The question referred to American's order for 47 787s, including 22 -8s and 25 -9s, in April. The airline emphasised at the time that the deal was to replace its Airbus A330-300, Boeing 767-300ER and some of its 777-200 fleets, and not for growth."


He also reiterated that the carrier is "always looking out into the future to evaluate our long-term needs" when it comes to aircraft."

Personally, I still believe AA will eventually operate both the 787-10 and 777X (The -9.) They are in a perfect position for growth and as time progresses, the need will arise.

Thoughts?


AA has 47 777-200ER's that are not young at all (delivered 1999-2001) not even on average. AA will need a replacement order soon for deliveries in the next decade. Based on this feedback we can conclude that 777-200ER replacement is wide open. RFI's probably send out already. http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/American%20Airlines-active-b777.htm

Image

The 787-9 (smaller), 787-10 (payload-range) and A350-900 (-1000 option) seem the most suitable candidates. We need to look at capacity, payload range and efficiency related to operating costs. To see what is the most popular platform to replace 777-200ER's we can look what most other carriers have ordered for that requirement. AA can say they are done for now, they will be in the market for new frames soon. They have to.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5404
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 3:12 pm

raylee67 wrote:
I think 78J has a range problem. It can't do trans-Pac, so it would be limited to Atlantic and Latam routes for AA.


Frankly, a LatAm and TATL plane is a lot more useful to AA than a TPAC plane - look at the route network and frequencies. There will be plenty of 788s, 789s, and 77Ws for TPAC.
 
osupoke07
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:39 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 4:09 pm

keesje wrote:
The 787-9 (smaller), 787-10 (payload-range) and A350-900 (-1000 option) seem the most suitable candidates. We need to look at capacity, payload range and efficiency related to operating costs. To see what is the most popular platform to replace 777-200ER's we can look what most other carriers have ordered for that requirement. AA can say they are done for now, they will be in the market for new frames soon. They have to.


Based on Seatguru, AA currently seats 285 on the 789 and 260-273 on the 772. So a 789 can serve as a 1 for 1 replacement passenger wise and allow for 5-10% traffic growth with the same amount of planes. They could even use a few more 788 if they have 772 routes now with bad yields. AA isn't flying to the extremes of the 772/789 range on a lot of routes, so I don't think cargo payload would be affected too much. Cargo volume might take a hit, but I'm not familiar with those numbers.

Given the recent 789/788 order and options and the apparent goal to simplify the fleet, it's almost certain that replacements for the 772 fleet will be a mix of 789 and 788 depending on route requirements.
MD82, MD83, MD88, B717, B732, B733, B735, B737, B738, B739, B752, B763, B77W, CR2, CR7, CR9, A320, A321
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2613
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 4:24 pm

keesje wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
An interesting article, though not very surprising.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... th-448910/

Vasu Raja, vice-president of network & schedule planning at American states:

"There is definitely some growth built into our fleet plan," he says. "Buying new planes is just one way to achieve that growth. Others include using larger aircraft, flying them farther… or using our aircraft throughout more of the day, meaning scheduling them more efficiently."

The question referred to American's order for 47 787s, including 22 -8s and 25 -9s, in April. The airline emphasised at the time that the deal was to replace its Airbus A330-300, Boeing 767-300ER and some of its 777-200 fleets, and not for growth."


He also reiterated that the carrier is "always looking out into the future to evaluate our long-term needs" when it comes to aircraft."

Personally, I still believe AA will eventually operate both the 787-10 and 777X (The -9.) They are in a perfect position for growth and as time progresses, the need will arise.

Thoughts?


AA has 47 777-200ER's that are not young at all (delivered 1999-2001) not even on average. AA will need a replacement order soon for deliveries in the next decade. Based on this feedback we can conclude that 777-200ER replacement is wide open. RFI's probably send out already. http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/American%20Airlines-active-b777.htm

Image

The 787-9 (smaller), 787-10 (payload-range) and A350-900 (-1000 option) seem the most suitable candidates. We need to look at capacity, payload range and efficiency related to operating costs. To see what is the most popular platform to replace 777-200ER's we can look what most other carriers have ordered for that requirement. AA can say they are done for now, they will be in the market for new frames soon. They have to.


The 772 replacement is a done deal. It is the 787-9. Aa has already said they are trying to simplify their fleet and that the 787-9 will begin replacement of older 772s
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 4:27 pm

osupoke07 wrote:
keesje wrote:
The 787-9 (smaller), 787-10 (payload-range) and A350-900 (-1000 option) seem the most suitable candidates. We need to look at capacity, payload range and efficiency related to operating costs. To see what is the most popular platform to replace 777-200ER's we can look what most other carriers have ordered for that requirement. AA can say they are done for now, they will be in the market for new frames soon. They have to.


Based on Seatguru, AA currently seats 285 on the 789 and 260-273 on the 772. So a 789 can serve as a 1 for 1 replacement passenger wise and allow for 5-10% traffic growth with the same amount of planes. They could even use a few more 788 if they have 772 routes now with bad yields. AA isn't flying to the extremes of the 772/789 range on a lot of routes, so I don't think cargo payload would be affected too much. Cargo volume might take a hit, but I'm not familiar with those numbers.

Given the recent 789/788 order and options and the apparent goal to simplify the fleet, it's almost certain that replacements for the 772 fleet will be a mix of 789 and 788 depending on route requirements.


Extremely well-reasoned post.

The USA is a mature market. AA's need to replace 772ER can be satisfied with 787. What replaces 773ER, well that is a big mystery, but that is probably so many years away it's not relevant.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13025
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 4:34 pm

osupoke07 wrote:
keesje wrote:
The 787-9 (smaller), 787-10 (payload-range) and A350-900 (-1000 option) seem the most suitable candidates. We need to look at capacity, payload range and efficiency related to operating costs. To see what is the most popular platform to replace 777-200ER's we can look what most other carriers have ordered for that requirement. AA can say they are done for now, they will be in the market for new frames soon. They have to.


Based on Seatguru, AA currently seats 285 on the 789 and 260-273 on the 772. So a 789 can serve as a 1 for 1 replacement passenger wise and allow for 5-10% traffic growth with the same amount of planes. They could even use a few more 788 if they have 772 routes now with bad yields. AA isn't flying to the extremes of the 772/789 range on a lot of routes, so I don't think cargo payload would be affected too much. Cargo volume might take a hit, but I'm not familiar with those numbers.

Given the recent 789/788 order and options and the apparent goal to simplify the fleet, it's almost certain that replacements for the 772 fleet will be a mix of 789 and 788 depending on route requirements.


Not cargo volume takes a hit, cargo payload / tonnes. Airlines don't want to fly either TATL or Pacific, but both with the same aircraft.

If you compared a 787-9 to a 772ER on a 6000NM flight, the 787-9 leaves behind cargo pallets on the platform.
If you would put AA 772ER's premium seat count a 787-9, you get apples to apples.The 787-9 is smaller despite it carrying 52 more economy seats. Who are we fooling & why? https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_Boeing_777-200ER_E.php

Why buy a smaller aircraft carrying less cargo for the next 25 years, in a market that grows 4-5% per year? Because it's a Boeing? It just doesn't make sense at all.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2112
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 4:36 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
I think 78J has a range problem. It can't do trans-Pac, so it would be limited to Atlantic and Latam routes for AA.


Frankly, a LatAm and TATL plane is a lot more useful to AA than a TPAC plane - look at the route network and frequencies. There will be plenty of 788s, 789s, and 77Ws for TPAC.


Precisely, the US3 don't buy an airplane so it can fly every possible route. They buy them for a particular need. AA has some high capacity flights for LatAm and TATL...they don't need the 787-10 to do TPAC. Frankly, based on AA's route TPAC structure, the 787/77W mix seems to work well.
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 2164
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 4:41 pm

keesje wrote:
Why buy a smaller aircraft carrying less cargo for the next 25 years, in a market that grows 4-5% per year? Because it's a Boeing? It just doesn't make sense at all.


Or maybe because the cost savings associated with a simpler fleet and a lower trip cost exceed the revenue they expect to lose from leaving a handful of cargo containers behind?
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1552
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 5:16 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
keesje wrote:
Why buy a smaller aircraft carrying less cargo for the next 25 years, in a market that grows 4-5% per year? Because it's a Boeing? It just doesn't make sense at all.


Or maybe because the cost savings associated with a simpler fleet and a lower trip cost exceed the revenue they expect to lose from leaving a handful of cargo containers behind?


Also AA is the worlds largest A320 family operator. So obviously this isnt a "because its Boeing" decision.

Why does this keep coming up? Everything isnt colored by A vs B biases.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
User avatar
FlightLevel360
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:26 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 5:16 pm

The global air travel market is growing steadily and does not appear to stop soon. Airlines need to upgauge in every way possible.
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
Antarius
Posts: 1552
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 5:27 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
The global air travel market is growing steadily and does not appear to stop soon. Airlines need to upgauge in every way possible.


Not necessarily. They can add frequencies too.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Swadian
Posts: 538
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 5:33 pm

jfk777 wrote:
AA is one of the last airlines to place a large 77W order so it probably will one of the last to buy the 777-9. The 787 order AA just placed is for replacement of the A330-300 and 767 fleets. AA has time to figure out what they are going to do to replace their 47 777-200ER fleet before they replace the 77W fleet.

The question of where more 777 or 787 will fly needs to be asked ? AA already flies to Tokyo, Peking, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Seoul in Asia plus Sydney, Australia. Its covers Latin America better then any other airline and covers the main cities in Europe especially London. More planes mean more frequencies on existing routes unless AA suddenly starts flying to India, Africa or the Middle East which seems unlikely.


787 could be used to DME, TLV, JNB, SIN, NGO, PHL-NRT, or LAX-ICN. Also AA is going all-788 in ORD which could result in an additional ORD-NRT.

If JNB and SIN are too far they may get a few 778 which would have fleet commonality without a higher capacity than 77W; however, the 789 may be better for such purposes even if it does a MIA-CPT-JNB-MIA.

ba319-131 wrote:
I remain hopeful that the A350-900 & -1000 enter the fleet in the future as 777-200ER & -300ER replacements, though the latter are some years away for sure!!


Keep hoping.

AirCal737 wrote:
rotating14 wrote:
kaitak wrote:
I'd be more positive about the 787-10 than the 779; the 787-10 looks like being an ideal t/a aircraft and could replace the A333s and 772s on many routes.



Correct. Buying a new aircraft that can seat 400 plus passengers makes zero sense when their largest aircraft only seats 310 and paint on the 77Ws still hasn't dried yet. If they do buy the 777-8 or - 9, it'll be far into the future, reminiscent of when they bought the 77Ws.

Not exactly. A 779 would seat no where near a 400 in a similar configuration density to a 310-seat 77W. It would be like around 335


AA 77W seats 304, not 310. A 779 would seat about 325.

keesje wrote:
osupoke07 wrote:
keesje wrote:
The 787-9 (smaller), 787-10 (payload-range) and A350-900 (-1000 option) seem the most suitable candidates. We need to look at capacity, payload range and efficiency related to operating costs. To see what is the most popular platform to replace 777-200ER's we can look what most other carriers have ordered for that requirement. AA can say they are done for now, they will be in the market for new frames soon. They have to.


Based on Seatguru, AA currently seats 285 on the 789 and 260-273 on the 772. So a 789 can serve as a 1 for 1 replacement passenger wise and allow for 5-10% traffic growth with the same amount of planes. They could even use a few more 788 if they have 772 routes now with bad yields. AA isn't flying to the extremes of the 772/789 range on a lot of routes, so I don't think cargo payload would be affected too much. Cargo volume might take a hit, but I'm not familiar with those numbers.

Given the recent 789/788 order and options and the apparent goal to simplify the fleet, it's almost certain that replacements for the 772 fleet will be a mix of 789 and 788 depending on route requirements.


Not cargo volume takes a hit, cargo payload / tonnes. Airlines don't want to fly either TATL or Pacific, but both with the same aircraft.

If you compared a 787-9 to a 772ER on a 6000NM flight, the 787-9 leaves behind cargo pallets on the platform.
If you would put AA 772ER's premium seat count a 787-9, you get apples to apples.The 787-9 is smaller despite it carrying 52 more economy seats. Who are we fooling & why? https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_Boeing_777-200ER_E.php

Why buy a smaller aircraft carrying less cargo for the next 25 years, in a market that grows 4-5% per year? Because it's a Boeing? It just doesn't make sense at all.


Most of AA's 77E Pacific flights were poor-yielding and are now flown by 788. A little growth would be to 789. Before the 788 AA had no ideal aircraft for the Pacific, as the 77E was the smallest plane that had the range.

If AA wanted the A359, they would have continue to defer it into the 2020s as you claim. After all, their original order had better launch pricing. They didn't, which means the A359 is DEAD at AA. No fanboyism intended.

Remember, this is the same airline who still flies MD-80s. Don't be surprised if the 77E fleet lasts to 2030. It makes sense, it makes perfect sense when 77E is no longer used to Asia other than DFW-NRT and AA is high on debt. Never forget about debt when considering replacement.
John Wang, Founder and President of Inland Streamliner.
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 6:06 pm

Swadian wrote:
Most of AA's 77E Pacific flights were poor-yielding and are now flown by 788. A little growth would be to 789. Before the 788 AA had no ideal aircraft for the Pacific, as the 77E was the smallest plane that had the range.


To be fair this could have been due to the layout. Having a 16F cabin and angle flat business was clearly not a recipe for success. Then as 787's are delivered it makes sense to deploy them on the longest routes where their efficiency will benefit the most.

It would seem to me the older, depreciated 77E's would be best on deep South America routes where the low utilization would not matter as much and they could carry more cargo.

As for the 788/789/78J, as we've seen time and time again with the 737-6/7/8/9, a318/19/20/21, 77E/77W, 332/333, the larger end of the size range ends up clearly being the "sweet spot", especially for TATL range routes.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 23633
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 6:11 pm

Think Vasu is right with his thinking. AA generally is shy about large capacity aircraft unlike other US peers along with recent doubling down on desire to simplify fleet usage.

FlightLevel360 wrote:
The global air travel market is growing steadily and does not appear to stop soon. Airlines need to upgauge in every way possible.


Global air travel growth is largely driven by emerging markets as their populations and economic prosperity see rapid expansion.
Mature markets like the US are only forecast to grow 2.3% annually over next 20-years per IATA latest forecast.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13025
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 6:15 pm

Maybe, alternative they'll do the same 772ER replacement as United, Delta, BA, AF, JAL, Cathay, KLM, QR, the Chinese and Singapore Airlines. W'll see and it probably won't take years.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6969
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 6:21 pm

LAXintl wrote:
AA generally is shy about large capacity aircraft unlike other US peers


I would not say "unlike", but rather "as much as". DL and UA both replaced the 744s with smaller planes. UA's largest capacity aircraft is the 77W and DL's largest capacity aircraft is the A359. UA also converted its A350-1000 order to A350-900s. U.S. legacy carriers alike seem to prefer fuel efficient modern twins with 300-ish seats as their flagships. This is probably related to their multi-hub model and their desire to offer several frequencies on trunk routes.
Upcoming flights:
May: AM MEX-CUN 73H (Y), AM CUN-MEX 73W (Y).
August: KL MEX-AMS 74M (J), KQ AMS-NBO 788 (J).
 
incitatus
Posts: 3294
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 6:30 pm

keesje wrote:
The 787-9 (smaller), 787-10 (payload-range) and A350-900 (-1000 option) seem the most suitable candidates. We need to look at capacity, payload range and efficiency related to operating costs. To see what is the most popular platform to replace 777-200ER's we can look what most other carriers have ordered for that requirement. AA can say they are done for now, they will be in the market for new frames soon. They have to.


In addition to that, they have to look the routes the 777-200ERs are flying now. They are all in the shorter range of long-haul.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 6:45 pm

EddieDude wrote:

I would not say "unlike", but rather "as much as". DL and UA both replaced the 744s with smaller planes. UA's largest capacity aircraft is the 77W and DL's largest capacity aircraft is the A359. UA also converted its A350-1000 order to A350-900s. U.S. legacy carriers alike seem to prefer fuel efficient modern twins with 300-ish seats as their flagships. This is probably related to their multi-hub model and their desire to offer several frequencies on trunk routes.


AA's largest plane for ages was the 772, while DL and UA operated the 744.

Since the 1980s, and selling off its 747-100 fleet, because they were too big in favor of more DC-10s, AA has avoided operated largest types.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
User avatar
Rookie87
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:33 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 6:47 pm

Swadian wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
AA is one of the last airlines to place a large 77W order so it probably will one of the last to buy the 777-9. The 787 order AA just placed is for replacement of the A330-300 and 767 fleets. AA has time to figure out what they are going to do to replace their 47 777-200ER fleet before they replace the 77W fleet.

The question of where more 777 or 787 will fly needs to be asked ? AA already flies to Tokyo, Peking, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Seoul in Asia plus Sydney, Australia. Its covers Latin America better then any other airline and covers the main cities in Europe especially London. More planes mean more frequencies on existing routes unless AA suddenly starts flying to India, Africa or the Middle East which seems unlikely.


787 could be used to DME, TLV, JNB, SIN, NGO, PHL-NRT, or LAX-ICN. Also AA is going all-788 in ORD which could result in an additional ORD-NRT.

If JNB and SIN are too far they may get a few 778 which would have fleet commonality without a higher capacity than 77W; however, the 789 may be better for such purposes even if it does a MIA-CPT-JNB-MIA.

ba319-131 wrote:
I remain hopeful that the A350-900 & -1000 enter the fleet in the future as 777-200ER & -300ER replacements, though the latter are some years away for sure!!


Keep hoping.

AirCal737 wrote:
rotating14 wrote:


Correct. Buying a new aircraft that can seat 400 plus passengers makes zero sense when their largest aircraft only seats 310 and paint on the 77Ws still hasn't dried yet. If they do buy the 777-8 or - 9, it'll be far into the future, reminiscent of when they bought the 77Ws.

Not exactly. A 779 would seat no where near a 400 in a similar configuration density to a 310-seat 77W. It would be like around 335


AA 77W seats 304, not 310. A 779 would seat about 325.

keesje wrote:
osupoke07 wrote:

Based on Seatguru, AA currently seats 285 on the 789 and 260-273 on the 772. So a 789 can serve as a 1 for 1 replacement passenger wise and allow for 5-10% traffic growth with the same amount of planes. They could even use a few more 788 if they have 772 routes now with bad yields. AA isn't flying to the extremes of the 772/789 range on a lot of routes, so I don't think cargo payload would be affected too much. Cargo volume might take a hit, but I'm not familiar with those numbers.

Given the recent 789/788 order and options and the apparent goal to simplify the fleet, it's almost certain that replacements for the 772 fleet will be a mix of 789 and 788 depending on route requirements.


Not cargo volume takes a hit, cargo payload / tonnes. Airlines don't want to fly either TATL or Pacific, but both with the same aircraft.

If you compared a 787-9 to a 772ER on a 6000NM flight, the 787-9 leaves behind cargo pallets on the platform.
If you would put AA 772ER's premium seat count a 787-9, you get apples to apples.The 787-9 is smaller despite it carrying 52 more economy seats. Who are we fooling & why? https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_Boeing_777-200ER_E.php

Why buy a smaller aircraft carrying less cargo for the next 25 years, in a market that grows 4-5% per year? Because it's a Boeing? It just doesn't make sense at all.


Most of AA's 77E Pacific flights were poor-yielding and are now flown by 788. A little growth would be to 789. Before the 788 AA had no ideal aircraft for the Pacific, as the 77E was the smallest plane that had the range.

If AA wanted the A359, they would have continue to defer it into the 2020s as you claim. After all, their original order had better launch pricing. They didn't, which means the A359 is DEAD at AA. No fanboyism intended.

Remember, this is the same airline who still flies MD-80s. Don't be surprised if the 77E fleet lasts to 2030. It makes sense, it makes perfect sense when 77E is no longer used to Asia other than DFW-NRT and AA is high on debt. Never forget about debt when considering replacement.


The 77W at AA seats 310, 8F52J250Y.
The Pacific and everywhere else actually was an issue due to AAs configuration of the 777-200ER being too premium heavy with 16F/37J. 788 are not the only TPAC birds at AA. 772/77W and 789 cross the Pacific from DFW/LAX.
As of right now, DME is a pipe dream so keep dreaming.

I see no reason why AA would add the 78J or even be thinking about a replacement for the 77W.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13025
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 6:55 pm

incitatus wrote:
keesje wrote:
The 787-9 (smaller), 787-10 (payload-range) and A350-900 (-1000 option) seem the most suitable candidates. We need to look at capacity, payload range and efficiency related to operating costs. To see what is the most popular platform to replace 777-200ER's we can look what most other carriers have ordered for that requirement. AA can say they are done for now, they will be in the market for new frames soon. They have to.


In addition to that, they have to look the routes the 777-200ERs are flying now. They are all in the shorter range of long-haul.


Also shorter long range flight payload is important. If the runway is a little hot, high, there are headwinds, no fly zones, diversion requirements, even an 787-9 starts off loading passengers/ cargo well before 5000NM. Project that on the 787-10. Airlines in general don't like niche aircraft.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Antarius
Posts: 1552
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 7:07 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
Swadian wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
AA is one of the last airlines to place a large 77W order so it probably will one of the last to buy the 777-9. The 787 order AA just placed is for replacement of the A330-300 and 767 fleets. AA has time to figure out what they are going to do to replace their 47 777-200ER fleet before they replace the 77W fleet.

The question of where more 777 or 787 will fly needs to be asked ? AA already flies to Tokyo, Peking, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Seoul in Asia plus Sydney, Australia. Its covers Latin America better then any other airline and covers the main cities in Europe especially London. More planes mean more frequencies on existing routes unless AA suddenly starts flying to India, Africa or the Middle East which seems unlikely.


787 could be used to DME, TLV, JNB, SIN, NGO, PHL-NRT, or LAX-ICN. Also AA is going all-788 in ORD which could result in an additional ORD-NRT.

If JNB and SIN are too far they may get a few 778 which would have fleet commonality without a higher capacity than 77W; however, the 789 may be better for such purposes even if it does a MIA-CPT-JNB-MIA.

ba319-131 wrote:
I remain hopeful that the A350-900 & -1000 enter the fleet in the future as 777-200ER & -300ER replacements, though the latter are some years away for sure!!


Keep hoping.

AirCal737 wrote:
Not exactly. A 779 would seat no where near a 400 in a similar configuration density to a 310-seat 77W. It would be like around 335


AA 77W seats 304, not 310. A 779 would seat about 325.

keesje wrote:

Not cargo volume takes a hit, cargo payload / tonnes. Airlines don't want to fly either TATL or Pacific, but both with the same aircraft.

If you compared a 787-9 to a 772ER on a 6000NM flight, the 787-9 leaves behind cargo pallets on the platform.
If you would put AA 772ER's premium seat count a 787-9, you get apples to apples.The 787-9 is smaller despite it carrying 52 more economy seats. Who are we fooling & why? https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_Boeing_777-200ER_E.php

Why buy a smaller aircraft carrying less cargo for the next 25 years, in a market that grows 4-5% per year? Because it's a Boeing? It just doesn't make sense at all.


Most of AA's 77E Pacific flights were poor-yielding and are now flown by 788. A little growth would be to 789. Before the 788 AA had no ideal aircraft for the Pacific, as the 77E was the smallest plane that had the range.

If AA wanted the A359, they would have continue to defer it into the 2020s as you claim. After all, their original order had better launch pricing. They didn't, which means the A359 is DEAD at AA. No fanboyism intended.

Remember, this is the same airline who still flies MD-80s. Don't be surprised if the 77E fleet lasts to 2030. It makes sense, it makes perfect sense when 77E is no longer used to Asia other than DFW-NRT and AA is high on debt. Never forget about debt when considering replacement.


The 77W at AA seats 310, 8F52J250Y.
The Pacific and everywhere else actually was an issue due to AAs configuration of the 777-200ER being too premium heavy with 16F/37J. 788 are not the only TPAC birds at AA. 772/77W and 789 cross the Pacific from DFW/LAX.
As of right now, DME is a pipe dream so keep dreaming.

I see no reason why AA would add the 78J or even be thinking about a replacement for the 77W.


304 vs 310 - both are correct. It depends on which and when you look. The 77W originally was 8 F, 52J, 260 Y = 310 seats. With the PE refit, the 77W is now 8F, 52 J, 28 W and 216 Y = 304 seats.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6464
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 7:09 pm

I think the 787-10 is an inevitability at AA. There are just too many current 772 routes where it would be the right equipment. That said any new orders are a few years out, given the huge amount of fleet renewal AA's done lately.

77X... we'll see, much later. The 77Ws are the least of AA's fleet worries and there are enough of them for now.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6969
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 7:18 pm

janders wrote:
AA's largest plane for ages was the 772, while DL and UA operated the 744.

Since the 1980s, and selling off its 747-100 fleet, because they were too big in favor of more DC-10s, AA has avoided operated largest types.

That is true, and very pertinent. AA indeed went for a bit more capacity than what they had when they decided to order 77Ws. But the argument that AA, DL and UA are nowadays averse to ordering the largest planes available still stands.
Upcoming flights:
May: AM MEX-CUN 73H (Y), AM CUN-MEX 73W (Y).
August: KL MEX-AMS 74M (J), KQ AMS-NBO 788 (J).
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13025
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: AA Shies Away From 78J/77X For Time Being

Tue May 29, 2018 7:45 pm

EddieDude wrote:
janders wrote:
AA's largest plane for ages was the 772, while DL and UA operated the 744.

Since the 1980s, and selling off its 747-100 fleet, because they were too big in favor of more DC-10s, AA has avoided operated largest types.

That is true, and very pertinent. AA indeed went for a bit more capacity than what they had when they decided to order 77Ws. But the argument that AA, DL and UA are nowadays averse to ordering the largest planes available still stands.


That would spell bad news for the 777-9 :worried:
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos