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TC957
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VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 7:22 am

In what I see as a surprise move, VS will be all 744 from MAN over this winter.
Seems they keep changing their minds over where the ex-AB A332's get deployed.
 
skipness1E
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 9:10 am

Any link?
MAN-ATL needs frequency, I can't that working on a B744 in the winter IMHO if this is true.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 9:33 am

skipness1E wrote:
Any link?
MAN-ATL needs frequency, I can't that working on a B744 in the winter IMHO if this is true.


This should do the trick, does seem wierd to use a 744 on ATL as you note, but here it is.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-28may18/
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Channex757
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 9:42 am

Any chance that VS are going to use the A332 in markets like GLA or even NCL over the winter? They would be ideal for a Virgin Holidays supported operation to MCO
 
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JannEejit
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 9:46 am

Channex757 wrote:
Any chance that VS are going to use the A332 in markets like GLA or even NCL over the winter? They would be ideal for a Virgin Holidays supported operation to MCO


GLA is operated March to November with 744 then stops. Of course maybe that might change to an additional A332 service, who knows ?
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 10:58 am

TC957 wrote:
In what I see as a surprise move, VS will be all 744 from MAN over this winter.
Seems they keep changing their minds over where the ex-AB A332's get deployed.


I suspect it's more a question of "needs must" rather than VS changing their minds...
 
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Channex757
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 11:13 am

JannEejit wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Any chance that VS are going to use the A332 in markets like GLA or even NCL over the winter? They would be ideal for a Virgin Holidays supported operation to MCO


GLA is operated March to November with 744 then stops. Of course maybe that might change to an additional A332 service, who knows ?

These are smaller aircraft so possibly VS could use them to provide a limited service through the winter at GLA, BFS, maybe NCL....?

Otherwise I can see this just being right-sizing at Gatwick on some routes.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 11:42 am

TC957 wrote:
In what I see as a surprise move, VS will be all 744 from MAN over this winter.
Seems they keep changing their minds over where the ex-AB A332's get deployed.


I'm due to fly on VS127 in late-November and I noticed in my booking the other week it had changed from an A330-300 to a 747, then a few weeks prior my VS128 was cancelled and I was re-scheduled onto the next day's flight which was then scheduled for a 747. It'll be interesting to see what the loadings are like as these flights were only available for Upper Class bookings for a number of weeks, though all 3 classes are now available for booking again including Y Light/Classic/Delight.

There have been rumours elsewhere that the ex-Air Berlin A330's are getting PE and UCS re-fitted later this year, so maybe that explains some of the changes as it makes sense to do this in the winter months when there's slack in the fleet.

skipness1E wrote:
Any link?
MAN-ATL needs frequency, I can't that working on a B744 in the winter IMHO if this is true.


Agreed about the frequency, but at least some service is still being provided whilst the 787 engine issues are ongoing, so credit where it's due. I wonder if the size of the aircraft is also affecting how often these flights are running this winter as it's a lot of capacity either way.
 
skipness1E
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 11:48 am

3 weekly MAN-ATL is enough to force any frequent flier elsewhere. Seems a shame with American's MAN-ORD having died as well.
 
Jerry123
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 12:15 pm

I'd have thought that the A330 200s would be more suited to MAN than Gatwick especially as Gatwicks routes are more leisure based.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 2:12 pm

skipness1E wrote:
3 weekly MAN-ATL is enough to force any frequent flier elsewhere. Seems a shame with American's MAN-ORD having died as well.


Good point - MAN has done well with new "direct" routes to the USA. However, this has been at the expense of existing hub routes and MAN appears to have replaced a smaller number of "thick" routes with a larger number of "thin" routes. It needs to make its network more resilient (if possible) before further expansion in the west.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 2:45 pm

This doesn't surprise me purely based on the number of ferry flights the Virgin 747s do. If you look at 'The VS Source' you can see just how many empty positioning flights there are. Add maintenance advantages of a single base and it seems a fairly sensible. Still glad I got to fly a VS 747 out of Gatwick this summer, though.
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
 
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klm617
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 4:38 pm

Interesting that VS is going to 3 weekly 744 on JFK-MAN one would think a daily Delta 757 would be a better option.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 5:29 pm

klm617 wrote:
Interesting that VS is going to 3 weekly 744 on JFK-MAN one would think a daily Delta 757 would be a better option.


One would not think that as most traffic in and out of MAN is heavily tilted towards UK PoS - thus VS metal is the more prudent decision.
 
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klm617
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 7:04 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Interesting that VS is going to 3 weekly 744 on JFK-MAN one would think a daily Delta 757 would be a better option.


One would not think that as most traffic in and out of MAN is heavily tilted towards UK PoS - thus VS metal is the more prudent decision.


That doesn't matter as all DL and VS flights are metal neutral.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
EddieDude
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 7:12 pm

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Interesting that VS is going to 3 weekly 744 on JFK-MAN one would think a daily Delta 757 would be a better option.


One would not think that as most traffic in and out of MAN is heavily tilted towards UK PoS - thus VS metal is the more prudent decision.


That doesn't matter as all DL and VS flights are metal neutral.

True, but I think that what winginit meant to say is that daily 752 service (which DL can offer fleet-wise but not VS) is more convenient than 3x weekly 744 service (which VS can offer but not DL).
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Andy33
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 7:36 pm

EddieDude wrote:
klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:

One would not think that as most traffic in and out of MAN is heavily tilted towards UK PoS - thus VS metal is the more prudent decision.


That doesn't matter as all DL and VS flights are metal neutral.

True, but I think that what winginit meant to say is that daily 752 service (which DL can offer fleet-wise but not VS) is more convenient than 3x weekly 744 service (which VS can offer but not DL).

Whereas I think winginit is actually saying is that ticket sales to customers purchasing in the UK are always going to be a higher proportion of the total sales than ticket sales to customers purchasing in the US on this route. because while ATL offers connections across the entire DL network, at the MAN end it is almost entirely O&D. The brand UK customers are familiar with is Virgin Atlantic, and while to the airlines it makes no difference which of them operates the route, it does to at least some of the potential travellers who are stuck in a time warp and still believe VS has glamour and DL (if indeed they've heard of them at all) has mediocrity. Frequent travellers will know that in very many ways the reverse is now true, but clearly MAN-ATL doesn't have a large number of frequent travellers or we wouldn't be having the discussion about frequency reduction.
 
winginit
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 7:57 pm

klm617 wrote:
That doesn't matter as all DL and VS flights are metal neutral.


It very much does matter because while DL/VS flights are metal neutral to the carriers, they are not neutral from the perspective of the consumer.

Andy33 wrote:
Whereas I think winginit is actually saying is that ticket sales to customers purchasing in the UK are always going to be a higher proportion of the total sales than ticket sales to customers purchasing in the US on this route. because while ATL offers connections across the entire DL network, at the MAN end it is almost entirely O&D. The brand UK customers are familiar with is Virgin Atlantic, and while to the airlines it makes no difference which of them operates the route, it does to at least some of the potential travellers who are stuck in a time warp and still believe VS has glamour and DL (if indeed they've heard of them at all) has mediocrity. Frequent travellers will know that in very many ways the reverse is now true, but clearly MAN-ATL doesn't have a large number of frequent travellers or we wouldn't be having the discussion about frequency reduction.


That's spot on, very well put, and is what I was saying.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 11:28 pm

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Interesting that VS is going to 3 weekly 744 on JFK-MAN one would think a daily Delta 757 would be a better option.


One would not think that as most traffic in and out of MAN is heavily tilted towards UK PoS - thus VS metal is the more prudent decision.


That doesn't matter as all DL and VS flights are metal neutral.


Neutral metal to the COMPANIES, but not to the CUSTOMER. As much as I dislike DL, they are not dummies and know when VS metal works over DL. DL was killed on LAX-LHR and so handed it over to VS. AF was also slaughtered on LAX-LHR haha.

DL knows how to play to its strengths and no one can fault them there. They've done a very effective job with VS scheduling and I admire them for that.

Most brits have little idea what a Delta is ;-).
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 330s 340s 350 380
 
skipness1E
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Tue May 29, 2018 11:43 pm

It’s not remotely business friendly though for a serious player like MAN to have JFK on a B744 thrice weekly on a 747 in winter. That’s so 1980. We can’t all be saying “consumers only care about price and not brand loyalty” and then in the next breath suggest a daily narrow body is worse than a 3 x weekly Jumbo simply because of the operator on a metal neutral JV.
MAN needs year round frequency to pan US connectivity, otherwise it’s back to the LHR Shuttle and that’s a step backwards surely. A booming market continues to fragment it seems, the days of daily American MD11s and Continental 777s reliably plugged into US hubs like clockwork have been lost. Wasn’t Delta once a B777/MD11 operation on MAN-ATL or was the B763 as big as it got?
American/US even had ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT one summer, compare that to today.

As for “what Delta have done”, they’ve dropped MAN entirely. A once reliable and robust daily connection is now no use for year round business travel. Like AA before them, once they got out of LGW and into LHR, they took their eye off the ball at MAN. The focus was lost and the Virgin service this winter is useful for holiday makers only. MAN really deserves better from the US legacies.
 
Danfearn77
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 12:22 am

I do wonder whether one of th big boys will bite and operate a XXX-MAN-NYC service? Or even another US city. Who would be the most likely if this was the case? EK? QR? SQ? I’d say the latter would be the most unlikely. Emirates have a great brand identity in the UK and I’m sure a daily service could prove useful. Agreed that anything under daily, certainly 4 or less services per week is hopeless when your wanting to attract business passengers who want the frequency.

MT were *rumoured* to be looking into additional JFK frequencies, potentially 11 per week to start with apparently. I wonder if they press ahead with that plan.
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DTWLAX
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 2:55 am

What about BOS and SFO? Does VS not operate them in the winter?
 
Cunard
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 4:48 am

DTWLAX wrote:
What about BOS and SFO? Does VS not operate them in the winter?


No they are seasonal summer services otherwise we would probably be discussing those two destinations as well!
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TC957
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 6:15 am

I'm wondering if Norwegian is eyeing up what's happening with the MAN TATL situation and may pounce.
Re the VS flight, surely it would be better for them to serve JFK & ATL by an A333 doing a W pattern LHR-JFK/ATL-MAN-JFK/ATL-LHR on a daily basis than a 3 a week 744.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 6:59 am

TC957 wrote:
I'm wondering if Norwegian is eyeing up what's happening with the MAN TATL situation and may pounce.
Re the VS flight, surely it would be better for them to serve JFK & ATL by an A333 doing a W pattern LHR-JFK/ATL-MAN-JFK/ATL-LHR on a daily basis than a 3 a week 744.


Re VS - It probably would, but I think VS are in fleet crisis mode, they are understandably preserving LHR, and the B744 is the least worst option for their MAN Programme.

I'm an ideal world I think they'd want MAN-JFK/ATL to be pretty much daily all year on an A333/332 size aircraft. I expect they'd want to increase frequency on a number of other routes ex MAN, and may want to start MAN-DEL but right now they cannot do any of those things because their focus is on LHR.

Re Norwegian - I doubt it and hope not!
 
mrbonfire
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 7:30 am

It's all a bit of a jumble with their fleet problems. I don't know whether having so many fleet types has been a blessing or a curse with the ability to swap aircraft around but then have aircraft which are totally unsuitable to the route.

It does seem MAN is suffering here and a lack of daily mainline service is weird to what we saw 20 years ago but there we are.

Hoping that airlines will see the value of a321lr on these kind of routes to maintain daily service and connections.
 
anstar
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 10:28 am

I wonder if they are struggling at LGW... I mean they couldn't make varadero work, LAS is moving to LHR, CUN is being dropped. Norwegian keep expanding and BA are densifying their fleet... and VS continue to downsize.
 
TC957
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 1:24 pm

I know G-VWIN is due back in service soon, but could restoring any other WFU A346's help out ? Or even WFU 744's ? What's the current status of VROC and VWOW ? or have they've been broken up now ? Those two barely got to the mid-life stage.
 
Jerry123
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 1:38 pm

I wonder if they would be better off sourcing some more A330 200s and get a Virgin Atlantic cabin in them ready for the winter and base them at Manchester.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 3:11 pm

skipness1E wrote:
It’s not remotely business friendly though for a serious player like MAN to have JFK on a B744 thrice weekly on a 747 in winter. That’s so 1980. We can’t all be saying “consumers only care about price and not brand loyalty” and then in the next breath suggest a daily narrow body is worse than a 3 x weekly Jumbo simply because of the operator on a metal neutral JV.


But it's arguably more business friendly from VS' perspective to free up A333's with newer and more comfortable on board product to use at the more competitive LHR (and arguably LGW). I know the 747s had a refit not too long back, but the on board experience of the A333's and 787's is better and more business heavy.

I'd say VS would be better with an additional ~5 787's (that work!) at LHR to keep A333's free'd for MAN, but the likelyhood of that...
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
 
User001
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 3:20 pm

VS have just announced Los Angeles, as well as increasing Boston and Las Vegas to 3 and 4 weekly respectively from Manchester, as well as increasing based aircraft from 5 to 6 over the summer. So the airport can’t be that bad off for VS.
 
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klm617
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 3:22 pm

Best way for Manchester to be served is with daily DL 757 from DTW and a daily VS A330 from JFK it's clear ATL is not working as it's only 3 weekly. Return the SEA-LHR to a DL 767 and use the frame for JFK-MAN
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
User001
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 3:27 pm

ATL goes daily B744 next summer so it must be working, albeit seasonally at the moment.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 4:18 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:

One would not think that as most traffic in and out of MAN is heavily tilted towards UK PoS - thus VS metal is the more prudent decision.


That doesn't matter as all DL and VS flights are metal neutral.


Neutral metal to the COMPANIES, but not to the CUSTOMER. As much as I dislike DL, they are not dummies and know when VS metal works over DL. DL was killed on LAX-LHR and so handed it over to VS. AF was also slaughtered on LAX-LHR haha.

DL knows how to play to its strengths and no one can fault them there. They've done a very effective job with VS scheduling and I admire them for that.

Most brits have little idea what a Delta is ;-).


So I grant you the VS brand is super strong in MAN which is why VS makes sense to operate out of MAN. That said, I do not find VS metal to be superior to DL. VS planes and seats are old and no longer world class (I have not flown their 787 yet - but to JFK it was mostly A340/330/747). The full process of turning the seat to a bed is crazy for 2018 (but super cool back in the day). While their service is a little better than DL's, overall I think DL's consistancy and newer aircraft that they use on JFK-LHR runs. Out of JFK, it seems like the core JFK-LHR consumers are historic BA/AA or VS brand loyalists so it makes sense have VS fly more of those flights. The Club Houses are great and still world class.
 
caaardiff
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 5:09 pm

With the bigger aircraft and more seats to fill, would it mean dropping prices to get bums on seats which could ultimately hurt TCX? What routes are they now competing on from MAN?
 
TC957
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 5:12 pm

With MAN-LAS doubling to 4 x week on the 744 next summer that'll take some of the pressure for seats off the LHR-LAS 789 flight. Smart move.
I do know that the current LGW-LAS flight has people from all over the country catching it, so it makes little difference where ever it goes from in the UK.
 
User001
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 5:53 pm

MAN-LAS will be on the A332 not B744
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 6:13 pm

So something like:

1 - B744: MAN-MCO daily
2 - B744: MAN-MCO 12x weekly
3 - B744: MAN-JFK daily
4 - B744: MAN-ATL daily
5 - A332: MAN-LAX/BOS/LAX/BOS/BGI/LAS
6 - A332: MAN-BOS/LAS/BGI/LAS/LAX/LAS

It will be interesting to see where VS go from here at MAN. VS is clearly feeling its way through a fleet crisis at the moment and will be finding its role in the larger JV. It may be that London flying pivots ever further away from LGW, with LHR as p2p and MAN the secondary hub for the rest of the UK.

I wonder if the new terminal at MAN will see a full fat clubhouse?

We still have DEL in the pipeline and so it will be interesting to see if/how VS keep capacity up when the B744s retire.
 
Cunard
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 7:14 pm

DobboDobbo

Just to point out to those reading this thread that are unfamiliar with Manchester Airport but I just wanted to point out 'no new terminal' is being built but a totally revamped Terminal 2 is currently under construction!
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Cunard
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 7:16 pm

User001 wrote:
VS have just announced Los Angeles, as well as increasing Boston and Las Vegas to 3 and 4 weekly respectively from Manchester, as well as increasing based aircraft from 5 to 6 over the summer. So the airport can’t be that bad off for VS.


You forgot to add that VS are also discontinuing SFO in favour of LAX, it was announced at the same time!
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 7:53 pm

Cunard wrote:
DobboDobbo

Just to point out to those reading this thread that are unfamiliar with Manchester Airport but I just wanted to point out 'no new terminal' is being built but a totally revamped Terminal 2 is currently under construction!


Quite right to highlight - sloppy on my part!
 
User001
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 8:59 pm

Cunard wrote:
User001 wrote:
VS have just announced Los Angeles, as well as increasing Boston and Las Vegas to 3 and 4 weekly respectively from Manchester, as well as increasing based aircraft from 5 to 6 over the summer. So the airport can’t be that bad off for VS.


You forgot to add that VS are also discontinuing SFO in favour of LAX, it was announced at the same time!


No I didn’t forget, as it hasn’t actually been officially announced that SFO is droppped.
 
EddieDude
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 10:33 pm

The A350-1000s cannot arrive soon enough!
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
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klm617
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Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Wed May 30, 2018 10:45 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
So something like:

1 - B744: MAN-MCO daily
2 - B744: MAN-MCO 12x weekly
3 - B744: MAN-JFK daily
4 - B744: MAN-ATL daily
5 - A332: MAN-LAX/BOS/LAX/BOS/BGI/LAS
6 - A332: MAN-BOS/LAS/BGI/LAS/LAX/LAS

It will be interesting to see where VS go from here at MAN. VS is clearly feeling its way through a fleet crisis at the moment and will be finding its role in the larger JV. It may be that London flying pivots ever further away from LGW, with LHR as p2p and MAN the secondary hub for the rest of the UK.

I wonder if the new terminal at MAN will see a full fat clubhouse?

We still have DEL in the pipeline and so it will be interesting to see if/how VS keep capacity up when the B744s retire.


They really need to add DTW-MAN it is a big whole in the DL/VS network.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
B-HOP
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:09 pm

Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Thu May 31, 2018 4:14 am

That is quite a lot of capacity they are adding up north but not having JFK daily for winter kills the appeal for the route, it shows the North could be prfitable with the right productsapart from Delhi that is rumour to be added, any other places they would add, HKG maybe? What about the A350-1000, where they would send them to?

Kev
Live life to max!!!
 
8herveg
Posts: 1490
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Thu May 31, 2018 7:55 am

B-HOP wrote:
That is quite a lot of capacity they are adding up north but not having JFK daily for winter kills the appeal for the route, it shows the North could be prfitable with the right productsapart from Delhi that is rumour to be added, any other places they would add, HKG maybe? What about the A350-1000, where they would send them to?

Kev


I’m surprised DEL wasn’t announced along with the 9W flight to BOM.

I think HKG could work too, as would PVG and JNB?
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Thu May 31, 2018 9:11 am

8herveg wrote:
B-HOP wrote:
That is quite a lot of capacity they are adding up north but not having JFK daily for winter kills the appeal for the route, it shows the North could be prfitable with the right productsapart from Delhi that is rumour to be added, any other places they would add, HKG maybe? What about the A350-1000, where they would send them to?

Kev


I’m surprised DEL wasn’t announced along with the 9W flight to BOM.

I think HKG could work too, as would PVG and JNB?


For future expansion I think you have to look at what is offered by the JV, where any holes are and whether VS could plug those holes.

I think you could point to VS's network at LHR and LGW - any of those routes that are unserved by VS at MAN are likely in the frame. I could see a few more of the carribean routes at MAN, an increased focus at DL hubs in North America (with the odd non-DL hub - I could see SFO return above SEA for example) and one or two routes in the subcontinent and Far East. DEL seems likely, which will help the US routes grow, in addition to which I could see JNB and PVG as you say. It will be hard to see VS competing on HKG as CX continue to expand there.

Getting the fleet right (A330 is a good aircraft at MAN) and the ground infrastructure (e.g. Clubhouse, crew basing etc) and a settled route network feels like important objectives in the next 5 years or thereabouts.


klm617 wrote:
They really need to add DTW-MAN it is a big whole in the DL/VS network.


Any DTW-MAN flight would almost certainly have to be on DL metal. As DL want MAN to be a VS operation, I think this makes DTW unlikely in the short to mid term. My suspicion is that the JV would want the likes of JFK/ATL to stabilise at a higher frequency over the winter, with the likes of LAX/BOS thickening out to daily inner and a much longer season (possibly year round) before doing too much expansion.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4854
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Thu May 31, 2018 9:14 am

klm617 wrote:
They really need to add DTW-MAN it is a big whole in the DL/VS network.

Disagree strongly. They're operating a MAN-ATL flight 3 weekly on a B744 which to my mind will kill yields. VS are doing to this route what AA did to their own MAN-ORD service.
The best aircraft for MAN long haul IMHO is the A332 with the exception of MCO/LAS and possibly BGI. Connections ot partner hubs ideally need to be reliably daily year round with a change in aircraft size to accommodate this.Fair play they're competing with Thomas Cook in leisure point to point but MAN-ATL and especially any DTW service would be hugely dependent on connections and business traffic year round. Am a huge fan of VS but not sure what's going on anymore.

Only 47 aircraft
3 major aircraft types
4 if you sub-type the very different A330 fleets, the AB aircraft are -200s with PW engines.

Actually that's all a bit Delta.
 
JamesCousins
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Thu May 31, 2018 9:44 am

EddieDude wrote:
The A350-1000s cannot arrive soon enough!


Dare I say we could even see some strong expansion from VS when those start arriving. When they start arriving all of the 787s will be back in service, the final A332 will in regular service, as will the 2 A340's taken from long term storage. My guess is that the 747s leave on a 1:1 basis with the A350s, but that the A340's will stick around quite a bit longer.

They own a couple of the A340's outright, which surely helps to combat fuel inefficiency, and with Delta showing a pattern of keeping hold of older frames, you never know!
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
 
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klm617
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: VS to go all 744 from MAN W18/9.

Thu May 31, 2018 10:06 am

skipness1E wrote:
klm617 wrote:
They really need to add DTW-MAN it is a big whole in the DL/VS network.

Disagree strongly. They're operating a MAN-ATL flight 3 weekly on a B744 which to my mind will kill yields. VS are doing to this route what AA did to their own MAN-ORD service.
The best aircraft for MAN long haul IMHO is the A332 with the exception of MCO/LAS and possibly BGI. Connections ot partner hubs ideally need to be reliably daily year round with a change in aircraft size to accommodate this.Fair play they're competing with Thomas Cook in leisure point to point but MAN-ATL and especially any DTW service would be hugely dependent on connections and business traffic year round. Am a huge fan of VS but not sure what's going on anymore.

Only 47 aircraft
3 major aircraft types
4 if you sub-type the very different A330 fleets, the AB aircraft are -200s with PW engines.

Actually that's all a bit Delta.


But hear me out here MAN-ATL is very likely low yielding Florida traffic. What a Detroit Manchester link provides is a more business mined customer creating more yield plus giving DL/VS better access to the upper Midwest and Western USA plus DTW is within range of the 757 making it more easily filled on a daily basis creating better yields as it build it's presence. While ATL may be better suited for most connection for European travelers most one stop flights are out of the way routing making DL less attractive than AA or UA who can get you all over the country without back tracking because of their more evenly distributed network. ua at ORD, EWR and IAH and AA at ORD,PHL,CLT and DFW. Were as DL only giving you JFK and ATL leaving a large chunk of the US cut of from convenient one stop connections to Europe. Building up DTW Europe would be a great asset for them. Better than 4 DTW-AMS and 3 DTW-CDG they'd be better off offering more point to point flights.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...

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