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bzcat
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 11:03 pm

Irehdna wrote:
Is there any possibility that SFO may get the ULR some time? I'm interested to see how many economy pax are taking SQ32 instead of UA's flight, SQ2 SIN-HKG-SFO, or other similar routings. It seems to me that this route was started in reaction to UA, and it initially wouldn't have started until 2018 along with LAX/EWR.


I believe SQ would have waited for the A350 ULR to start SFO but was pushed into launching it early with normal A350 because of UA. So it is likely that SQ will switch the SFO service to the ULR frames once the 6th and 7th plane arrives in the fleet (and after LAX launch).

Or maybe SQ will find that using normal A350 and occasionally blocking the last few rows of seats is good enough and use the 6th and 7th frame to launch ORD.

Both scenarios are equally likely.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:41 am

bzcat wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
Is there any possibility that SFO may get the ULR some time? I'm interested to see how many economy pax are taking SQ32 instead of UA's flight, SQ2 SIN-HKG-SFO, or other similar routings. It seems to me that this route was started in reaction to UA, and it initially wouldn't have started until 2018 along with LAX/EWR.


I believe SQ would have waited for the A350 ULR to start SFO but was pushed into launching it early with normal A350 because of UA. So it is likely that SQ will switch the SFO service to the ULR frames once the 6th and 7th plane arrives in the fleet (and after LAX launch).

Or maybe SQ will find that using normal A350 and occasionally blocking the last few rows of seats is good enough and use the 6th and 7th frame to launch ORD.

Both scenarios are equally likely.

There are third and forth options as well.

(3) They could decide to take a few standard A359s and just give them the same seating configuration as the -ULR. That way, they could get both the weight savings and the yield. YVR/SEA would easily be in range of a standard A359 as well, as they are even now.

That would also allow them to remove the -ULRs from the LAX route, and send them to a route that a standard A359-with-reduced-cabin cannot perform: allowing potentially two new east/central routes (IAH/ORD/YYZ/etc) than one.

(4) Just convert a few more incoming A350s into -ULR orders, if they want to do the likes of GRU (longer than EWR, but still within the -ULR's range). They have plenty of outstanding slots with which to do so.

So many ways SQ can go with this, should they decide to expand their nonstops.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:36 am

bzcat wrote:
Sightseer wrote:
airbazar wrote:
For example, they would need a minimum of 3 aircraft for SIN-EWR alone, but only 5 aircraft for both SIN-EWR and SIN-LAX.

Is this factoring in the need for a spare plane/maintenance? The actual round-trip SIN-EWR-SIN will only take 42-43 hours, so just two planes will need to be airborne at any given time.


Operational slack is not an option if you are a first class airline and charges a premium for your ULR flight.

SIN-EWR-SIN can operate with 2.5 aircraft but obviously airbus doesn't sell half a plane... :)

That's why the route has to be paired with SIN-LAX-SIN to make sense. 5 frames with up to 4 airborne at the same time. And if there is a delay in any one of them, you can rotate the spare frame in and keep the schedule on time.

SQ has ordered 7x A350 ULR so either they will switch SIN-SFO-SIN to ULR frames or they will add another destination (ORD?)


At the beginning of the new ULR operation (5 fleets period), I believe the schedule with be similar to what they had did with 345s.
The spare will be flying SIN-CGK during the down time. In case any planes go-tech, the SIN-CGK one can always be cancel/ replace by another plane
to cover the affected ULR flight.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:36 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
bzcat wrote:
Sightseer wrote:
Is this factoring in the need for a spare plane/maintenance? The actual round-trip SIN-EWR-SIN will only take 42-43 hours, so just two planes will need to be airborne at any given time.


Operational slack is not an option if you are a first class airline and charges a premium for your ULR flight.

SIN-EWR-SIN can operate with 2.5 aircraft but obviously airbus doesn't sell half a plane... :)

That's why the route has to be paired with SIN-LAX-SIN to make sense. 5 frames with up to 4 airborne at the same time. And if there is a delay in any one of them, you can rotate the spare frame in and keep the schedule on time.

SQ has ordered 7x A350 ULR so either they will switch SIN-SFO-SIN to ULR frames or they will add another destination (ORD?)


At the beginning of the new ULR operation (5 fleets period), I believe the schedule with be similar to what they had did with 345s.
The spare will be flying SIN-CGK. In case any planes go-tech, the SIN-CGK one can always be cancel/ replace by another plane
to cover the affected ULR flight.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:54 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:
Should launch from JFK to be honest. Closer to the city and everything with EWR about twice the distance away and a much more dismal experience. But I guess they chose EWR for the east coast connection opportunities on United. Then again, we do have a one stop flight from JFK to Singapore already. I guess it's better to offer passengers a choice of airport since EWR could be convenient to many people living in New Jersey.


EWR is not “twice the distance” to anywhere in Manhattan compared to JFK. Distances to both airports are almost exactly the same from most places in Manhattan, and for the financial district are actually tipped in EWR’s favor. That’s why UA ran those adds on NYC taxis showing the time to both EWR and JFK.

As for “much more dismal experience” JFK, EWR and LGA are all dreadful airports and it is a bit disengenuous to say any one is better than the other. T8 at JFK isn’t bad and T5 is OK, but SQ use neither of those. The flip side is that TC at EWR is better than T1 or T7 at JFK.


When I was saying "twice the distance" I was exaggerating quite a bit. However, the lack of public transportation to EWR compared to JFK really does make the journey seem longer. Furthermore, driving across the congested George Washington Bridge or the Holland Tunnel is not a great choice either. I fly out of EWR Terminal C quite a lot, and I must say I prefer it to LGA, despite the fact that I'm only ~20 minutes away from LGA compared to ~70 for EWR.

I did see someone post before saying that in reality EWR was farther away compared to Manhattan despite UA's ads, but now that I think about it, distance is completely subjective. It's the lack of proper transportation to EWR that makes the journey seem longer, with only a train from Penn and terrible traffic on the roads there. JFK, in my opinion, does a lot better in this regard.
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redcap1962
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:27 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Whoa, retard moment! Totally missed that. :lol: Point remains though.


Well - Austria & Hungary was one country, some time ago - in fact, before comercial aviation started here :wave:
This is your pilot speaking. Welcome to flight one from here to there. We'll be flying at a height of ten feet, going up to twelve and a half feet if we see anything big. My copilot today is a flask of coffee.

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Kikko19
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:37 am

redcap1962 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Whoa, retard moment! Totally missed that. :lol: Point remains though.


Well - Austria & Hungary was one country, some time ago - in fact, before comercial aviation started here :wave:
and still BTS is not in Hungary :D
and BTS is only 1 hour drive from Wien, I don't see SQ Serving both.
 
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STT757
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:23 am

FlightLevel360 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:
Should launch from JFK to be honest. Closer to the city and everything with EWR about twice the distance away and a much more dismal experience. But I guess they chose EWR for the east coast connection opportunities on United. Then again, we do have a one stop flight from JFK to Singapore already. I guess it's better to offer passengers a choice of airport since EWR could be convenient to many people living in New Jersey.


EWR is not “twice the distance” to anywhere in Manhattan compared to JFK. Distances to both airports are almost exactly the same from most places in Manhattan, and for the financial district are actually tipped in EWR’s favor. That’s why UA ran those adds on NYC taxis showing the time to both EWR and JFK.

As for “much more dismal experience” JFK, EWR and LGA are all dreadful airports and it is a bit disengenuous to say any one is better than the other. T8 at JFK isn’t bad and T5 is OK, but SQ use neither of those. The flip side is that TC at EWR is better than T1 or T7 at JFK.


When I was saying "twice the distance" I was exaggerating quite a bit. However, the lack of public transportation to EWR compared to JFK really does make the journey seem longer. Furthermore, driving across the congested George Washington Bridge or the Holland Tunnel is not a great choice either. I fly out of EWR Terminal C quite a lot, and I must say I prefer it to LGA, despite the fact that I'm only ~20 minutes away from LGA compared to ~70 for EWR.

I did see someone post before saying that in reality EWR was farther away compared to Manhattan despite UA's ads, but now that I think about it, distance is completely subjective. It's the lack of proper transportation to EWR that makes the journey seem longer, with only a train from Penn and terrible traffic on the roads there. JFK, in my opinion, does a lot better in this regard.


The public transportation issue is something that needs improvement at EWR, the Port Authority did approve the PATH extension which will really cut that service gap. What needs to go hand in hand with the PATH extension is the Airtrain/Monorail replacement, that will get approved at some point. In the meantime $75 Million to construct 42 footings for the new Airtrain system was included in the Terminal One authorization.

Also with regards to roads, I believe that's EWR's advantage. The airport is bounded by I-95 to the East and I-78 to the North, both have no significant bottlenecks in the area. The bottlenecks are the river crossings, however as someone who makes the commute each day to/from Lower Manhattan to my home in New Jersey (50 miles) it's not terrible. This morning it took me 1 hour seven minutes to get in, granted I come in at 6:30am to beat the traffic. However even during the worst times it's not as bad as folks make it out. And it's going to get significantly better in the next couple weeks as the Pulaski Skyway, one of the two major connectors between the Holland Tunnel and Newark Airport, is going to reopen after being closed for four years for rebuilding.

From Manhattan public transportation wise I give it to Kennedy, driving it's definitely EWR. In terms of physical distance EWR is closer to Manhattan than Kennedy, from Wall Street EWR is even closer than LGA. Using the Great Circle Mapper and the three Manhattan heliports for reference:

Wall Street Heliport:
EWR 8 mi.
LGA 9 mi.
JFK 13 mi.

West 30th Street Heliport:
LGA 7 mi.
EWR 10 mi.
JFK 14 mi.

East 34th Street Heliport:
LGA 6 mi.
EWR 11 mi.
JFK 12 mi.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:40 am

Would YYZ even work it terms of connections with SQ being so much further south than all the other destinations served with airlines from Asia, including Air Canada's own. No telling though what may happen.
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scbriml
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:54 am

NeBaNi wrote:
One thing I'm a little confused about is why the last three rows of Premium Economy are in 1-4-1 configuration. I thought the A350 fuselage didn't taper until after door 4, making the cross-section constant from door 1 to door 4? Why would SQ reduce the number of seats per row towards the back?


You are correct that the A350 passenger cabin is full width for its entire length. I'm afraid I can't answer your question about the slightly odd 1-4-1 at the rear of the cabin.
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airbazar
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:59 am

STT757 wrote:
From Manhattan public transportation wise I give it to Kennedy, driving it's definitely EWR. In terms of physical distance EWR is closer to Manhattan than Kennedy, from Wall Street EWR is even closer than LGA. Using the Great Circle Mapper and the three Manhattan heliports for reference:

People who take this flight don't give 2 hoots about public transportation. Just saying :)
 
hz747300
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:35 pm

airbazar wrote:
STT757 wrote:
From Manhattan public transportation wise I give it to Kennedy, driving it's definitely EWR. In terms of physical distance EWR is closer to Manhattan than Kennedy, from Wall Street EWR is even closer than LGA. Using the Great Circle Mapper and the three Manhattan heliports for reference:

People who take this flight don't give 2 hoots about public transportation. Just saying :)


Uber!

Would YVR be considered ULR? If not, then I would guess it would be YYZ too.

I don't think they'll launch PHX just yet :)
Keep on truckin'...
 
airbazar
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:54 pm

hz747300 wrote:
Would YVR be considered ULR? If not, then I would guess it would be YYZ too.


I just don't think there is enough demand between Singapore and Canada, even if it's YYZ.
I wouldn't discard a 5th freedom route such as HKG-MIA for example, or a second daily to SFO.
 
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Polot
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:36 pm

scbriml wrote:
NeBaNi wrote:
One thing I'm a little confused about is why the last three rows of Premium Economy are in 1-4-1 configuration. I thought the A350 fuselage didn't taper until after door 4, making the cross-section constant from door 1 to door 4? Why would SQ reduce the number of seats per row towards the back?


You are correct that the A350 passenger cabin is full width for its entire length. I'm afraid I can't answer your question about the slightly odd 1-4-1 at the rear of the cabin.

Are you a 100% sure there is no taper? 10 ab A350s go down to 9ab the last couple of rows too. I think the A350 may have a slight taper towards the back. It is slight enough that it doesn’t have an affect on 3-3-3 seating but non standard widths (2-4-2,3-4-3) may be a different story.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:44 pm

Polot wrote:
Are you a 100% sure there is no taper?


I'm just saying what Airbus have said all along - the A350 was specifically designed to provide a constant width for the entire length of the passenger cabin.

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/ ... pment.html
Older widebody jetliners are tapered at the front and back, but this places limitations on seat configuration and makes an aircraft feel narrow as passengers look along the cabin. Curved walls also reduce shoulder room in window seats, and for many passengers the view from these windows is quite limited. The chrysalis cabin was designed with no tapering at all between the doors, straighter walls and panoramic windows that are 50 per cent bigger than those on the A330 – setting a new industry standard.
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yellowtail
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:54 pm

I don't see the third ULH flight being IAH....that flight has struggled for years getting enough LF from SIN and relied heavily on Cargo. It finally seems like it has settled down using MAN as the stop.

Having said that oil drives the flight and with oil rebounding perhaps there is room to do 4Xweek SIN-MAN-IAH and 3Xweek SIN-IAH
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LAXdude1023
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:05 pm

yellowtail wrote:
I don't see the third ULH flight being IAH....that flight has struggled for years getting enough LF from SIN and relied heavily on Cargo. It finally seems like it has settled down using MAN as the stop.

Having said that oil drives the flight and with oil rebounding perhaps there is room to do 4Xweek SIN-MAN-IAH and 3Xweek SIN-IAH


The loads in all cabins are super high with the routing through MAN. SQ is doing a great job capturing oil traffic to Scotland. IAH-MAN-ABZ is a great way to stay on Star Alliance and avoid LHR.

I cannot see IAH-SIN going nonstop. It would seem counter productive since they wouldnt be able to double dip any longer.
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:26 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
yellowtail wrote:
I don't see the third ULH flight being IAH....that flight has struggled for years getting enough LF from SIN and relied heavily on Cargo. It finally seems like it has settled down using MAN as the stop.

Having said that oil drives the flight and with oil rebounding perhaps there is room to do 4Xweek SIN-MAN-IAH and 3Xweek SIN-IAH


The loads in all cabins are super high with the routing through MAN. SQ is doing a great job capturing oil traffic to Scotland. IAH-MAN-ABZ is a great way to stay on Star Alliance and avoid LHR.

I cannot see IAH-SIN going nonstop. It would seem counter productive since they wouldnt be able to double dip any longer.


Agree. Next to no chance of SIN-IAH being a nonstop. The current SQ51/52 service leans heavily on SIN-MAN and MAN-IAH traffic, and has been noted that this route has settled down somewhat - the focus should be how to develop the flight from here.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:13 am

19 hours in a coach seat (yes, its a premium coach seat, but still).......
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:31 am

airbazar wrote:
People who take this flight don't give 2 hoots about public transportation. Just saying

Says who?

Know plenty of paid J/F pax who've used public transit to/from of JFK and EWR if it means avoiding traffic, myself and family among them.

Main reason I wish LGA would get hit by a meteor, as well.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
airbazar
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:36 am

LAX772LR wrote:
airbazar wrote:
People who take this flight don't give 2 hoots about public transportation. Just saying

Says who?

Know plenty of paid J/F pax who've used public transit to/from of JFK and EWR if it means avoiding traffic, myself and family among them.

Main reason I wish LGA would get hit by a meteor, as well.


One thing is "paid J/F" and another is spending 20 hours in a tube and afterwards having to jump in a crowded train at rush hour. I guess there will always be exceptions :)
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:09 pm

airbazar wrote:
another is spending 20 hours in a tube

You mean closer to 18, which isn't exactly fundamentally different than the people who just spent 16hrs+ on that airport's longstanding flights from HKG and BOM, with many of whom then proceeding to public transit any given day.

Yeah, this flight's a novelty, but it's not 2004 anymore... let's stop pretending that it's still some atypical deviation from what else is now available in terms of long haul.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
airzona11
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:37 pm

MoKa777 wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Very cool to see this flight. Is the J-class going to be the same as the other A350s?


Yes. According to the ausbt link in the OP:

"Singapore Airlines has confirmed to Australian Business Traveller the pointy end of the A350-900ULR will see the same business class seat as on its regular Airbus A350-900 jets..."


Good call, missed that. The seat map is cool to see the low density on a big jet. I for one would take some laps up and down the aisles a few times to stretch the legs.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:07 pm

airzona11 wrote:
I for one would take some laps up and down the aisles a few times to stretch the legs.

I never flew the former nonstops, but friends who did all told me that the crew recommended that everyone do it, several times.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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keesje
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:50 pm

Maybe this is the brilliance of the A350-900. Contrary to 747SP, A340-500 and 777LR it is much lower risk. If fuel prices jump above $100/barrel again and most ULH flights become unfeasible, the A350LR can be brought back to a regular A359 standard again. Unlike other LR aircraft, where you are stuck with relatively heavy, expensive aircraft.
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airzona11
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:24 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
I for one would take some laps up and down the aisles a few times to stretch the legs.

I never flew the former nonstops, but friends who did all told me that the crew recommended that everyone do it, several times.


That makes sense! I have a trip coming up to SIN, one of the ways I want to try the non-stop via SFO/LAX, but even in J class that seems like a long flight. A buddy just spent I ~180,000 miles to fly J on roundtrip PHX-LAX-SIN
 
airbazar
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:42 am

LAX772LR wrote:
airbazar wrote:
another is spending 20 hours in a tube

You mean closer to 18, which isn't exactly fundamentally different than the people who just spent 16hrs+ on that airport's longstanding flights from HKG and BOM, with many of whom then proceeding to public transit any given day. Or maybe the 19+ hours was gate to gate. I can't remember anymore.

Yeah, this flight's a novelty, but it's not 2004 anymore... let's stop pretending that it's still some atypical deviation from what else is now available in terms of long haul.

18? Does the A359 cruise that much faster than the A345? The previous SIN-EWR often clocked at 19+ hours. Add boarding and taxi times and you're at 20 hours in a tube. Or maybe that 19+ hours was gate to gate. I can't remember anymore.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:03 am

wow, after all the talk of the high trip cost of this and other ULH flights, I am greatly surprised to find out that the J fare, on a random November day is only $5600. less than $400 over the cost of SQ's one stop via FRA, $600 more than EK and other similar routes. I am excluding the PRC carriers, with their rock-bottom (and possibly, subsidized) pricing.

In fact, LH and other EU carriers are $6000 in many cases routing thru their hubs.

The PE fare is even more incredible. $1658 on this SQ ULH.... the lowest (again, excluding PRC) , lower than any of the one-stops. As far as I'm concerned, this falls into the "I can't believe I can fly SQ this cheaply" bucket.

So...... where is this big premium for this long and skinny route that I've been reading about, exactly?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:03 am

keesje wrote:
Maybe this is the brilliance of the A350-900.

Hardly "brilliant," just efficient use of resources.

You load essentially any longhaul aircraft to only about 50% of its typical capacity... you're going to dramatically increase the range, assuming it's not FVL. The A330 perhaps more so than anything.


airbazar wrote:
18? Does the A359 cruise that much faster than the A345? The previous SIN-EWR often clocked at 19+ hours. Add boarding and taxi times and you're at 20 hours in a tube. Or maybe that 19+ hours was gate to gate. I can't remember anymore.

Once the daily service begins:
SIN-EWR is 17hr50min (12:40am–5:30am)
EWR-SIN is 18hr30min (9:45am–5:15pm+1)

Both times are gate2gate. Nowhere near 20hrs.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
airbazar
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:37 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
So...... where is this big premium for this long and skinny route that I've been reading about, exactly?

What you're seeing is the efficiency of the A359 at work. The premium for the non-stop doesn't have to be that high. I also expect the fares to be lower in its first year of operation. Another factor is European airlines are not hugely interested in selling Asia connecting traffic because the TATL O&D is far more valuable. Why sell NYC-SIN for $5k+ when when for the same $5k+ they can just sell a much shorter TATL leg?
LAX772LR wrote:
Both times are gate2gate. Nowhere near 20hrs.

We'll see once the flight starts operating in the Winter what it will be like.
Here's the only record on flightaware: 18:47 gate to gate.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA22
Like I said, that flight often clocked at well above 19 hours.
 
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huaiwei
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:09 pm

airbazar wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
So...... where is this big premium for this long and skinny route that I've been reading about, exactly?

What you're seeing is the efficiency of the A359 at work. The premium for the non-stop doesn't have to be that high. I also expect the fares to be lower in its first year of operation.

Back when SQ was operating the non-stop with the A345s, the route was initially claimed to be more expensive than the one-stops. Eventually, the price was identical in subsequent years.

So it is unlikely due to the aircraft. Nor is it due to the year of operation. SQ simply prices based on demand and profit margins. I have never seen SQ pricing a route lower just because it is an A350, just as I have not seen prices go down when the B747s or B777s were replaced by A380s. In fact when SQ was operating both on the same routes, you will see the exact same prices anyway.
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FlyHappy
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:27 pm

airbazar wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
So...... where is this big premium for this long and skinny route that I've been reading about, exactly?

What you're seeing is the efficiency of the A359 at work. The premium for the non-stop doesn't have to be that high. I also expect the fares to be lower in its first year of operation. Another factor is European airlines are not hugely interested in selling Asia connecting traffic because the TATL O&D is far more valuable. Why sell NYC-SIN for $5k+ when when for the same $5k+ they can just sell a much shorter TATL leg?


maybe. If SQ is pricing this near their normal margins, this really could be exciting for carriers like this otherwise geo-disadvantaged; at least, those with good premium reputations.
After all, if EU carriers prefer to reserve the capacity for the TATL only leg, then the same is true of SQ's own 5th freedom TATL.

But actually, it looks like SQ is dropping the fare SIN-NYC, overall. The very same SQ one stops, thru the EU are priced much higher today, whether J or PE.

On the contrary to the previously held view that this ULR route would "command a premium", this appears as a significant price cut!
In fact, this new fare seems to split the difference between the Korean carriers and the Japanese ones, whereas previously, SQ was distinctly higher than both.

So now, I am puzzled.
Is this lowering of fares by SQ on a "premier route" a tacit admission by SQ that its current high premium fares are non sustainable into the future?

On a positive note, might this mean that higher CASM of a ULH flight like this is offset by the reduction in costs associated with the one stop model (crew changes, frames, what have you) in FRA, LHR ? I've never really bought into any of these notions about viably "bypassing" the ME3 hubs economically, but this route and these fares are starting to make me wonder.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:41 pm

airbazar wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
So...... where is this big premium for this long and skinny route that I've been reading about, exactly?

What you're seeing is the efficiency of the A359 at work. The premium for the non-stop doesn't have to be that high.

Except that airlines don't price premium fares relative to the performance of the aircraft, they price them on what the market will bear.

Excluding adjustments for competitive necessity: if they suddenly get an aircraft that can do the route at less cost, they're going to pocket the savings, not drop the premium fare.



FlyHappy wrote:
Is this lowering of fares by SQ on a "premier route" a tacit admission by SQ that its current high premium fares are non sustainable into the future?

What you're seeing is more a consequence of the fact that ULH has expanded dramatically since the days that the SIN nonstop option first launched.

Back in 2004, the only remotely comparable flight was CO's single daily EWR-HKG. Now, NYC-HKG is 5x daily, on multiple carriers, from multiple gateways. NYC-TPE is now multiple times daily as well. Soon, NYC-MNL nonstops are going to be starting. These are all 16hr+ flights (unheard of 20yrs ago) that arrive into connecting banks that can efficiently transit you to anywhere in Asia, and almost always with a shorter geographic distance traveled than connecting at SIN.

HKG is the powerhouse gateway for connecting N.America to SE Asia, with TPE not far behind. MNL is getting in on the action; and even NRT/ICN offer more efficient (distance-wise) connections between the USA and almost anywhere in Asia, than SIN does.

It's more difficult for SQ to justify any atypically high price on that route, than it would've been previously. Even for SIN O&D:
Yes time is money, but if someone had to fly the route and SQ's single daily timing didn't work for them: then they can hop on any number of CX flights NYC-HKG, have the option of F class which SQ isn't offering on the nonstop, and still get to SIN in around the same in-air time with a brief connection and multiple timing options @HKG as well.

That's hard to fight.


airbazar wrote:
Like I said, that flight often clocked at well above 19 hours.

That was then.

They now have an aircraft that cruises at 0.85M (versus 0.82M), and as AI has shown, route modeling has continued to improve significantly in even just the last few years.

Not only do they seem confident that they can shave about a half hour from the cruise time; but the flights will also likely have a much more direct approach into and out of NYC due to the 5am arrival times-- they won't have to deal with all the evening air traffic that the previous flight had to queue up into.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:26 pm

LAX772LR wrote:

FlyHappy wrote:
Is this lowering of fares by SQ on a "premier route" a tacit admission by SQ that its current high premium fares are non sustainable into the future?

What you're seeing is more a consequence of the fact that ULH has expanded dramatically since the days that the SIN nonstop option first launched.


Yeah, but I'm not comparing fares to any other carrier or SQ's prior A340 ULH route. I'm literally seeing a reduction in the one stop fare to NYC leading right up to that Oct 11 non-stop intro. Obviously, the fare reduction also applies to the existing one stop SQ options. Its hard to know if seasonality is in play, but they've sure timed it to make it look like the two are related.

Its weird.
 
Antarius
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:24 pm

keesje wrote:
Maybe this is the brilliance of the A350-900. Contrary to 747SP, A340-500 and 777LR it is much lower risk. If fuel prices jump above $100/barrel again and most ULH flights become unfeasible, the A350LR can be brought back to a regular A359 standard again. Unlike other LR aircraft, where you are stuck with relatively heavy, expensive aircraft.


One would hope so. the 747SP, 345 and 772LR EIS was 42, 15 and 12 years ago.
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ManekS
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:42 pm

Regarding the lack of 'premium pricing', keep in mind we are still four months away from the inaugural flight. This could very well be introductory pricing to promote the service, similar to UA's $170(!) economy class tickets on LAX-SIN when their service started. We will probably see true pricing once the service is well-established and SQ revenue management has enough historical booking data to optimize their forecasts and pricing.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:34 pm

ManekS wrote:
Regarding the lack of 'premium pricing', keep in mind we are still four months away from the inaugural flight. This could very well be introductory pricing to promote the service, similar to UA's $170(!) economy class tickets on LAX-SIN when their service started. We will probably see true pricing once the service is well-established and SQ revenue management has enough historical booking data to optimize their forecasts and pricing.


Maybe. But did UA also put promo pricing on their prior one stop option? (I genuinely don't know)
It sure looks like SQ is specifically re-positioning to be more in line with the primary competition on this route: ME3, Koreans, Japanese carriers.
 
airportplan
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:53 pm

I flew the SIN-EWR non-stop in premium economy in 2008. Got my ticket then for $850 RT. The trip was great and on the 340-500 they had a stand up bar in the back of the aircraft for premium economy passengers. Singapore has posted the seat map for the new 350-900 ULR but there doesn't seem to be a stand up bar for business or premium economy passengers. But maybe they are not shown on the seat map.

http://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/pdf/OurFleet/A350-900-ULR.pdf
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:29 pm

i think using statue of liberty was tied to newark airport's name having liberty in it. for this whole "this is an O and D flight only" remember that there are dozens of secondary east coast destinations that now have one stop flight to SIN so there could be connecting traffic.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:13 pm

Alright! My flight is back. Here's to all the naysayers. :champagne:
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
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fca767
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Re: Singapore Airlines to resume non-stop SIN-EWR from 11 October 2018

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:58 pm

Do all the seats at the back have a window? I'm going to film from there so hopefully.

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