mcdu
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Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:17 pm

Southwest employee questions legitimacy of mother traveling with Bi-racial child. The agent asked for birth certificate or a Facebook post. When did Facebook become an official document for proof of anything?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2018/05/30/cal-coach-lindsay-gottlieb-southwest-questioned-biracial-sons-id/654648002/
 
Doodle77
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:21 pm

I have no issues with how Southwest handled the situation whatsoever. In fact, I think they did a marvelous job. The child had a different last name from the mother and they were being abundantly cautious. I'm actually somewhat surprised the mother didn't thank them for ensuring the safety of the child but I guess that wouldn't fit the narrative that the mother is pushing about this being a racial issue. Feigned anger at its finest.
 
gabo787
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:35 pm

Really is this news?.. An airline was cautious and put the safety of a child first. Well done SWA
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:38 pm

In an era of increasing child trafficking, it was the right move. It's not like they called the cops or made a public spectacle to embarrass the woman. They just asked for some simple proof. Really, proof that should be asked for more often even if your kid is a dead ringer for the mom or dad.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:38 pm

mcdu wrote:
Southwest employee questions legitimacy of mother traveling with Bi-racial child. The agent asked for birth certificate or a Facebook post. When did Facebook become an official document for proof of anything?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2018/05/30/cal-coach-lindsay-gottlieb-southwest-questioned-biracial-sons-id/654648002/


The thread title is misleading. You should add the word 'employee'. This would appear to implicate the entire airline, not one individual.
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mjoelnir
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:42 pm

Doodle77 wrote:
I have no issues with how Southwest handled the situation whatsoever. In fact, I think they did a marvelous job. The child had a different last name from the mother and they were being abundantly cautious. I'm actually somewhat surprised the mother didn't thank them for ensuring the safety of the child but I guess that wouldn't fit the narrative that the mother is pushing about this being a racial issue. Feigned anger at its finest.


How often does WN check birth certificates, when both parents are present and the passport states the age age and verifies the identity of the child? One in ten, one in hundred or hardly never. It does not fit in your narrative that airline employees are harassing passengers.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:44 pm

Maybe it was in the story posted, but the mom (UC Berkeley B.B. coach) stated she showed a passport to the “employee” to verify the child’s name, etc.

Not understanding why this wasn’t enough — this “employee” must’ve been incredibly stupid.

So save your rants about “feigned outrage.”
 
bennett123
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:46 pm

Given that the child shares a surname with the father (who was also present) I do not see how this happened.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:49 pm

I think Southwest handled this very professionally. The employee was simply trying to cover their behind simply because of the possible outcomes.
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Seabear
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:49 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Doodle77 wrote:
I have no issues with how Southwest handled the situation whatsoever. In fact, I think they did a marvelous job. The child had a different last name from the mother and they were being abundantly cautious. I'm actually somewhat surprised the mother didn't thank them for ensuring the safety of the child but I guess that wouldn't fit the narrative that the mother is pushing about this being a racial issue. Feigned anger at its finest.


How often does WN check birth certificates, when both parents are present and the passport states the age age and verifies the identity of the child? One in ten, one in hundred or hardly never. It does not fit in your narrative that airline employees are harassing passengers.


If this is WN policy, why isn't it applied uniformly across all passengers, in all locations? It's not all that unusual for a baby to have a different last name than the mom in this day and age, it's 2018, not 1950.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:54 pm

Doodle77 wrote:
I have no issues with how Southwest handled the situation whatsoever. In fact, I think they did a marvelous job. The child had a different last name from the mother and they were being abundantly cautious. I'm actually somewhat surprised the mother didn't thank them for ensuring the safety of the child but I guess that wouldn't fit the narrative that the mother is pushing about this being a racial issue. Feigned anger at its finest.

I have no issue either. If the mother/guardian doesn't have the same last name it is a warning flag that must be addressed!

My ex never took my last name. Because of this she has issues traveling with our bi-racial children as they look like me, not her (which goes against everything I read about genetic dominance, but I digress). We even we're interviewed separately by US customs (myself with the children) as somehow her passport has a smear that flagged it as altered. Now I was asked for 2nd ID too, when I produced it... No issue.

I travel with birth certificates just in case anyway.

What kind of mom was she? e.g., I always travel with their pink and purple water bottles (empty through TEA), I somehow end up with their stuffed animals poking their heads out of backpack pockets, and I carry our lap dog. So one thing agents look for is familiar interaction. My ex? She won't carry a thing for the kids and won't interrupt an adult conversation to answer their questions.

Guess who never has TSA, customs, or airline issues? Guess who usually gets a 'random' 2nd papers check?

Oh yeah, my traveling jacket is always a sports coat. It always improves service.

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Tugger
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:55 pm

This is basically a non-story and due to a mother feeling sensitive and being predisposed to being offended. In the linked article she states:

"[Southewest] said because we have (a) different last name," Gottlieb wrote in one tweet. "My guess is (it's) because he has a different skin color."

The woman herself is going off because she is imagining it was due to a reason it is not. Per Southwest:
"Southwest Airlines’ policy is to verify lap children are younger than the age of two by reviewing a birth certificate or government issued identification."


I don't see a real issue based on what is being reported but of course the agent may have been dismissive or insensitive (which I can imagine because they were not doing what ht woman was imagining).

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Bricktop
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 6:55 pm

Southwest needs to shut down ops for a day so their employees can get unconscious bias training.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 7:16 pm

catiii wrote:
Doodle77 wrote:
I have no issues with how Southwest handled the situation whatsoever. In fact, I think they did a marvelous job. The child had a different last name from the mother and they were being abundantly cautious. I'm actually somewhat surprised the mother didn't thank them for ensuring the safety of the child but I guess that wouldn't fit the narrative that the mother is pushing about this being a racial issue. Feigned anger at its finest.


Really? Both parents were present. I've flown with my wife (different last name) and my two kids for years and never once has anyone cited "federal law" to tell me that I had to show a birth certificate.

Contract of carriage requires an ID for all fliers. I've been asked to produce birth certificates with my ex (different last name). It depends on the security level.

I've been directed under Federal law to produce a 2nd ID for myself. For my children.

If you argue with a clerk, they suddenly remember every rule. :rotfl:

Different last name and the parent doesn't look like a parent? Child perhaps is standoffish or parent? Was there an active Amber alert? Did the mom's address match the child's? If not,

We've all seen the extra screening. This isn't a big deal!

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BoeingGuy
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 7:17 pm

Another case of someone pulling the race card. This kind of thing happens all the time where one parent kidnaps a child after divorce, or pays someone to kidnap a child in a custody dispute.

Years ago I took my much younger sister to Vancouver BC for a day trip. We were stopped at the Canada border and they separated us immediately. They asked her if she wanted to be with me. Finally they called our mother. Then sent us on our way. We are white.

The Canada border guards were doing their job. The WN agent was doing their job. Get over it.
 
red66mustang
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 7:29 pm

Can the media stop giving these people with feigned outrage a platform? 80% of these airline mistreated a PAX stories are non issues, including this one.

The mother should be thankful that the WN employee was confirming their child was not being kidnapped. Not having matching last names and also having different appearance from one another are two flags that would raise suspicion of child trafficking or kidnapping.
 
airzona11
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 7:29 pm

red66mustang wrote:
Can the media stop giving these people with feigned outrage a platform? 80% of these airline mistreated a PAX stories are non issues, including this one.

The mother should be thankful that the WN employee was confirming their child was not being kidnapped. Not having matching last names and also having different appearance from one another are two flags that would raise suspicion of child trafficking or kidnapping.


Excellent summary of the reality.
 
ridgid727
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 7:35 pm

The mother should have thanked the WN staff for being protective of the child.
 
beerockxs
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 7:35 pm

lightsaber wrote:
catiii wrote:
Doodle77 wrote:
I have no issues with how Southwest handled the situation whatsoever. In fact, I think they did a marvelous job. The child had a different last name from the mother and they were being abundantly cautious. I'm actually somewhat surprised the mother didn't thank them for ensuring the safety of the child but I guess that wouldn't fit the narrative that the mother is pushing about this being a racial issue. Feigned anger at its finest.


Really? Both parents were present. I've flown with my wife (different last name) and my two kids for years and never once has anyone cited "federal law" to tell me that I had to show a birth certificate.

Contract of carriage requires an ID for all fliers. I've been asked to produce birth certificates with my ex (different last name). It depends on the security level.

They had a passport for the child, and were asked to provide a birth certificate in addition to that. From the article: "We had a passport that verified our son’s age and identity, and both parents were present."
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 7:46 pm

beerockxs wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
catiii wrote:

Really? Both parents were present. I've flown with my wife (different last name) and my two kids for years and never once has anyone cited "federal law" to tell me that I had to show a birth certificate.

Contract of carriage requires an ID for all fliers. I've been asked to produce birth certificates with my ex (different last name). It depends on the security level.


They had a passport for the child, and were asked to provide a birth certificate in addition to that. From the article: "We had a passport that verified our son’s age and identity, and both parents were present."


Well what if a kidnapper had the child's passport? The mother's last name was different from the child's. The airline is just doing due diligence.
 
Redwood839
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 8:01 pm

I'm surprised that people here are taking this lady's side saying that of course it's racism. This is perfectly normal from Southwest and whoever did it was doing it for extra security.

If this happened to me where I'm in a similar situation to the person it happened to, I would be slightly annoyed at having to produce the certificate but wouldn't say it's racism. The facebook post being asked? Agent probably being nice in case they didn't have the certificate. Move along people.
 
musman9853
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 8:31 pm

You guys are really defending this? This is a clear example of bias and discrimination.
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TheOldDude
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 8:34 pm

The replies seem to fit into two pools: (1) those who think of the activity in terms of racism, and (2) those who think of it in terms of child trafficking. Can we all agree that (a) airlines have a role in acting against both racism and child trafficking, (b) it's possible to misinterpret actions to deter child trafficking as racism, and (c) although a single USA Today article likely does not contain sufficient information to make a reasoned judgement as to whether racism occurred, it can trigger an emotional response.
 
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Seabear
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 8:34 pm

beerockxs wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
catiii wrote:

Really? Both parents were present. I've flown with my wife (different last name) and my two kids for years and never once has anyone cited "federal law" to tell me that I had to show a birth certificate.

Contract of carriage requires an ID for all fliers. I've been asked to produce birth certificates with my ex (different last name). It depends on the security level.

They had a passport for the child, and were asked to provide a birth certificate in addition to that. From the article: "We had a passport that verified our son’s age and identity, and both parents were present."


Exactly. So why the extra scrutiny?

Perhaps someone with requisite knowledge can enlighten us as to the specific WN policies that apply in such a case?

The parents provided a passport, which would be the gold standard for establishing identity and citizenship. And presumably the child's name matched the father, if not the mom?

Given the almost nonsensical request for either a "birth certificate or Facebook page", methinks the WN employee was clearly making up his\her own rules?
 
MKIAZ
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 8:41 pm

Redwood839 wrote:
I'm surprised that people here are taking this lady's side saying that of course it's racism. This is perfectly normal from Southwest and whoever did it was doing it for extra security.

If this happened to me where I'm in a similar situation to the person it happened to, I would be slightly annoyed at having to produce the certificate but wouldn't say it's racism. The facebook post being asked? Agent probably being nice in case they didn't have the certificate. Move along people.


You're saying that having an employee lie to a customer citing a made up "federal law" and requiring documentation on the spot without advance notice to the customer and then agreeing to look at the customer's facebook profile to satisfy their curiosity is perfectly normal?

There are document requirements that are very clear ahead of time. A passport satisfies those requirements. If you *MIGHT* need a birth certificate to be allowed to board with your kid, then the airline needs to make it very clear to everyone ahead of time - if you are flying with anyone under X years old bring a copy of their birth certificate. Boom, problem solved. If they don't have it you can justifiably deny boarding.

The gate agent isn't a law enforcement officer. They should follow company policy with regards to documentation (which should be explicitly clear to the customer ahead of time) and if they have suspicions something illegal is occurring they should have an appropriate channel to report that to law enforcement personnel. They should NOT arbitrarily lie to customers and harass them.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 8:51 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
Redwood839 wrote:
I'm surprised that people here are taking this lady's side saying that of course it's racism. This is perfectly normal from Southwest and whoever did it was doing it for extra security.

If this happened to me where I'm in a similar situation to the person it happened to, I would be slightly annoyed at having to produce the certificate but wouldn't say it's racism. The facebook post being asked? Agent probably being nice in case they didn't have the certificate. Move along people.


You're saying that having an employee lie to a customer citing a made up "federal law" and requiring documentation on the spot without advance notice to the customer and then agreeing to look at the customer's facebook profile to satisfy their curiosity is perfectly normal?

There are document requirements that are very clear ahead of time. A passport satisfies those requirements. If you *MIGHT* need a birth certificate to be allowed to board with your kid, then the airline needs to make it very clear to everyone ahead of time - if you are flying with anyone under X years old bring a copy of their birth certificate. Boom, problem solved. If they don't have it you can justifiably deny boarding.

The gate agent isn't a law enforcement officer. They should follow company policy with regards to documentation (which should be explicitly clear to the customer ahead of time) and if they have suspicions something illegal is occurring they should have an appropriate channel to report that to law enforcement personnel. They should NOT arbitrarily lie to customers and harass them.


Extremely well said. In this case the racist WN employee implies that federal law requires that she confirms the relationship by checking... Facebook? I'm so glad for threads like this. I'll be sure to bookmark it and that way I can remember who the racists here are.
 
Redwood839
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 9:24 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
Redwood839 wrote:
I'm surprised that people here are taking this lady's side saying that of course it's racism. This is perfectly normal from Southwest and whoever did it was doing it for extra security.

If this happened to me where I'm in a similar situation to the person it happened to, I would be slightly annoyed at having to produce the certificate but wouldn't say it's racism. The facebook post being asked? Agent probably being nice in case they didn't have the certificate. Move along people.


You're saying that having an employee lie to a customer citing a made up "federal law" and requiring documentation on the spot without advance notice to the customer and then agreeing to look at the customer's facebook profile to satisfy their curiosity is perfectly normal?

There are document requirements that are very clear ahead of time. A passport satisfies those requirements. If you *MIGHT* need a birth certificate to be allowed to board with your kid, then the airline needs to make it very clear to everyone ahead of time - if you are flying with anyone under X years old bring a copy of their birth certificate. Boom, problem solved. If they don't have it you can justifiably deny boarding.

The gate agent isn't a law enforcement officer. They should follow company policy with regards to documentation (which should be explicitly clear to the customer ahead of time) and if they have suspicions something illegal is occurring they should have an appropriate channel to report that to law enforcement personnel. They should NOT arbitrarily lie to customers and harass them.


Do you work face to face with customers who probably are not easy? You're right the law probably doesn't exist but in the case where someone is trying to be careful and trying to get some proof of something you're not going to start checking your manuals or laws one by one to see which one it is. The gate agent was being careful.

You're right that they're not a law enforcement officer, but the moment a child is actually smuggled anywhere in a situation like this guess who's going to get the blame for it? You're god damn right it's going to be Southwest.

That's the problem with people here, you're two sided. A line of people saying that the gate agent was racist for being extra careful. If the kid doesn't look like anyone and is a minor, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be careful. That doesn't make me a racist.

You can call me a racist all you want (like someone said they're going to bookmark it) but I'm A) Not from the USA so that stupid pulling the race card out doesn't work with me B) Being safe and covering your ass does not make you a racist.

You're all bottom line waiting at the opportunity to call someone a racist or have at it at an airline.
 
bennett123
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 9:34 pm

If only the father had been present, (who had a matching surname to the child) was present, there would presumably be no concern.

If so, why the concern when both parents are present.
 
red66mustang
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 9:36 pm

Seabear wrote:
beerockxs wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Contract of carriage requires an ID for all fliers. I've been asked to produce birth certificates with my ex (different last name). It depends on the security level.

They had a passport for the child, and were asked to provide a birth certificate in addition to that. From the article: "We had a passport that verified our son’s age and identity, and both parents were present."


Exactly. So why the extra scrutiny?

Perhaps someone with requisite knowledge can enlighten us as to the specific WN policies that apply in such a case?

The parents provided a passport, which would be the gold standard for establishing identity and citizenship. And presumably the child's name matched the father, if not the mom?

Given the almost nonsensical request for either a "birth certificate or Facebook page", methinks the WN employee was clearly making up his\her own rules?


A passport does not state who the child's parents are, it simply states identity and citizenship. While Birth Certificates (to my knowledge, mine does) states who the mother and father of the child are. The agent wouldn't have been able to confirm parenthood from a passport.

WN has that a birth certificate is required for children under 2 in their policies:
https://www.southwest.com/html/customer ... n-pol.html
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 9:45 pm

I am attempting to look at this from a neutral perspective. The facebook query kills the legitimacy of this interaction. While no ill intent may not have been intended it was highly insensitive. Why should a biracial family face more scrutiny than the same race family? As long as the family provided the necessary documents proving the child's identity that should be the end of it. If you feel something is fishy, get someone higher or the authorities involved.
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 9:50 pm

I specifically recall an episode of Airline that had this exact situation play out. The agent had to call the infant's primary doctor in order to verify the age and information. This is nothing new. As a new parent of a biracial infant (my daughter looks more like me than my wife) I wouldn't be surprised to have this happen to us. It's clearly stated in their policy to bring the birth certificate. None of this would happen if folks would do research and quit being so entitled.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 9:51 pm

beerockxs wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
catiii wrote:

Really? Both parents were present. I've flown with my wife (different last name) and my two kids for years and never once has anyone cited "federal law" to tell me that I had to show a birth certificate.

Contract of carriage requires an ID for all fliers. I've been asked to produce birth certificates with my ex (different last name). It depends on the security level.

They had a passport for the child, and were asked to provide a birth certificate in addition to that. From the article: "We had a passport that verified our son’s age and identity, and both parents were present."


Yes, but the passport does not by itself verify the child's parentage. That's why traveling with birth certificates is always a good idea.
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airbazar
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 9:52 pm

Seabear wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Doodle77 wrote:
I have no issues with how Southwest handled the situation whatsoever. In fact, I think they did a marvelous job. The child had a different last name from the mother and they were being abundantly cautious. I'm actually somewhat surprised the mother didn't thank them for ensuring the safety of the child but I guess that wouldn't fit the narrative that the mother is pushing about this being a racial issue. Feigned anger at its finest.


How often does WN check birth certificates, when both parents are present and the passport states the age age and verifies the identity of the child? One in ten, one in hundred or hardly never. It does not fit in your narrative that airline employees are harassing passengers.


If this is WN policy, why isn't it applied uniformly across all passengers, in all locations? It's not all that unusual for a baby to have a different last name than the mom in this day and age, it's 2018, not 1950.


It's uniform policy in the rest of the world but i don't think it is in the U.S. When I travel abroad alone with my son I have to carry a notarized permission from my wife even tho he has my surname. i learned that the hard way on a trip to visit family in Portugal and on the way back Portuguese authorities wouldn't let us clear exit emigration. Canada has the same policy.
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 9:56 pm

Here is the policy directly from their website:

Does Southwest offer infant fares?

Southwest Airlines offers Infant fares for children under two years of age that allow you to reserve a seat for your little traveler to fly safely in his/her approved CRS. Infant fares are not available for purchase on Southwest.com. Please contact a Customer Representative at 1 (800) 435-9792 for more information.

Southwest Airlines Infant Fares have no restrictions, are refundable, and are offered on every Southwest Airlines flight (although seats are limited).

Although not recommended, if your child is under the age of two and you would prefer to hold him or her on your lap when traveling, you may do so on Southwest Airlines without charge and we'll be glad to check your CRS for use at your destination. FAA regulations require any child who has reached his/her second birthday to occupy his/her own seat. Please keep in mind that Southwest personnel must ensure compliance with this regulation, so be sure to bring along a copy of your infant's birth certificate for age verification.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 10:10 pm

WN732 wrote:
Here is the policy directly from their website:

Does Southwest offer infant fares?

Southwest Airlines offers Infant fares for children under two years of age that allow you to reserve a seat for your little traveler to fly safely in his/her approved CRS. Infant fares are not available for purchase on Southwest.com. Please contact a Customer Representative at 1 (800) 435-9792 for more information.

Southwest Airlines Infant Fares have no restrictions, are refundable, and are offered on every Southwest Airlines flight (although seats are limited).

Although not recommended, if your child is under the age of two and you would prefer to hold him or her on your lap when traveling, you may do so on Southwest Airlines without charge and we'll be glad to check your CRS for use at your destination. FAA regulations require any child who has reached his/her second birthday to occupy his/her own seat. Please keep in mind that Southwest personnel must ensure compliance with this regulation, so be sure to bring along a copy of your infant's birth certificate for age verification.


How people here try to provide nonsense to state that airlines are always right:

Please note that the following WN age verifying requirement has an or in the sentence:

If you are traveling on a ticketed Infant Fare, Child Fare, or Senior Fare, you must present the traveler's proof of age (i.e., birth certificate, driver's license, or another government-issued photo ID that indicates the ticketed traveler's date of birth) to a Customer Service Agent at the airport in order to check in for your flight.

The requirement is birth certificate !OR! government-issued ID aka passport. Passport was provided, the rest is plain and simple harassment. You travel the whole world with passports and than it should not be enough on a domestic USA flight?
Harassment or not knowing the rules by the employee.
 
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admanager
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:28 pm

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 10:22 pm

WN732 wrote:
Here is the policy directly from their website:

Does Southwest offer infant fares?

Southwest Airlines offers Infant fares for children under two years of age that allow you to reserve a seat for your little traveler to fly safely in his/her approved CRS. Infant fares are not available for purchase on Southwest.com. Please contact a Customer Representative at 1 (800) 435-9792 for more information.

Southwest Airlines Infant Fares have no restrictions, are refundable, and are offered on every Southwest Airlines flight (although seats are limited).

Although not recommended, if your child is under the age of two and you would prefer to hold him or her on your lap when traveling, you may do so on Southwest Airlines without charge and we'll be glad to check your CRS for use at your destination. FAA regulations require any child who has reached his/her second birthday to occupy his/her own seat. Please keep in mind that Southwest personnel must ensure compliance with this regulation, so be sure to bring along a copy of your infant's birth certificate for age verification.


This was domestic flight, (Denver to Oakland). WN732 provided the COC information from their website and the Southwest statement about this event was “Southwest Airlines’ policy is to verify lap children are younger than the age of two by reviewing a birth certificate or government-issued identification,” the statement said. “Certain international locations require us to verify additional paperwork for those traveling with a minor. Domestic travel does not require carriers to match last names of a child and guardian.”
Thanks for playing.
 
thaiflyer
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:55 pm

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 10:31 pm

WN732 wrote:
Here is the policy directly from their website:

Does Southwest offer infant fares?

Southwest Airlines offers Infant fares for children under two years of age that allow you to reserve a seat for your little traveler to fly safely in his/her approved CRS. Infant fares are not available for purchase on Southwest.com. Please contact a Customer Representative at 1 (800) 435-9792 for more information.

Southwest Airlines Infant Fares have no restrictions, are refundable, and are offered on every Southwest Airlines flight (although seats are limited).

Although not recommended, if your child is under the age of two and you would prefer to hold him or her on your lap when traveling, you may do so on Southwest Airlines without charge and we'll be glad to check your CRS for use at your destination. FAA regulations require any child who has reached his/her second birthday to occupy his/her own seat. Please keep in mind that Southwest personnel must ensure compliance with this regulation, so be sure to bring along a copy of your infant's birth certificate for age verification.


The mentioned requirement for the birth certificate in this SOP is for domestic travel in which the infant does not have a passport or government id card.
In that case the birth certificate can be required,
This is not applicable for the OP story.

Both parents where travelling together.
The wife had her maiden name in her passport and the father had the same last name in his and child passport.
Therefore there was not requirement for the birth certificate as the child's identity was established via the fathers passport.
 
Okie
Posts: 4025
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 10:31 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
How people here try to provide nonsense to state that airlines are always right:


Maybe you should do a little research on the rules and regulations required by Homeland Security/TSA.
You might appear informed.
If it was up to the airlines they would just be in the business of taking tickets and providing air travel.

I have run into same issues as well.
I will give you there is additional requirements if traveling with a minor of a different last name.
That can be a grandchild, adopted child, the next door neighbors child going with you on vacation or even minors going on a school/senior trip will require a letter of consent.

You will also need a letter of consent for a minor.
Passport.
Birth Certificate.

Nothing new

Okie

transmitted via smoke signal from mobile device
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 10:32 pm

Please keep political commentary out of this forum. That's what the Non Aviation Forum exists for.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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Seabear
Posts: 284
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Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 11:06 pm

red66mustang wrote:
Seabear wrote:
beerockxs wrote:
They had a passport for the child, and were asked to provide a birth certificate in addition to that. From the article: "We had a passport that verified our son’s age and identity, and both parents were present."


Exactly. So why the extra scrutiny?

Perhaps someone with requisite knowledge can enlighten us as to the specific WN policies that apply in such a case?

The parents provided a passport, which would be the gold standard for establishing identity and citizenship. And presumably the child's name matched the father, if not the mom?

Given the almost nonsensical request for either a "birth certificate or Facebook page", methinks the WN employee was clearly making up his\her own rules?


A passport does not state who the child's parents are, it simply states identity and citizenship. While Birth Certificates (to my knowledge, mine does) states who the mother and father of the child are. The agent wouldn't have been able to confirm parenthood from a passport.

WN has that a birth certificate is required for children under 2 in their policies:
https://www.southwest.com/html/customer ... n-pol.html


Wrong. Government ID or birth certificate. Passport is most definitely a valid government ID:

From WN's own web site:

You must present a valid Government-issued I.D. providing age (child) or a birth certificate (infant) to the Customer Service Agent at the airport when you check in for your flight. At that time, the date of birth listed in your child's account will be updated to indicate that age has been verified.

Sounds like WN needs some remedial education for their front line staff, pronto.
 
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mikelive
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:45 am

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 11:21 pm

I am wrapping up my career on the phone center side of things with WN on Thursday (before transitioning to an airport CSA role with WN), so here is my 2-cents:

Whenever a parent would ask me what kind of ID is required for their baby, I would tell them to bring a copy of their child's birth certificate. Nothing more; nothing less. However, there ARE some countries (Belize for example) which would require a letter from the non-traveling parent authorizing the traveling parent to take their child out of the US and into another country. I'm not sure of what other countries do this, but I had a customer yesterday denied boarding because she didn't have this letter. We rebooked her for today at no cost but it was a surprise (and a lesson learned) for me. She wasn't upset and was happy that we resolved the situation quickly for her.

I'm sure I'll learn more about this in the weeks ahead with my on-the-job training.
 
red66mustang
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:49 am

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 11:23 pm

Seabear wrote:
red66mustang wrote:
Seabear wrote:

Exactly. So why the extra scrutiny?

Perhaps someone with requisite knowledge can enlighten us as to the specific WN policies that apply in such a case?

The parents provided a passport, which would be the gold standard for establishing identity and citizenship. And presumably the child's name matched the father, if not the mom?

Given the almost nonsensical request for either a "birth certificate or Facebook page", methinks the WN employee was clearly making up his\her own rules?


A passport does not state who the child's parents are, it simply states identity and citizenship. While Birth Certificates (to my knowledge, mine does) states who the mother and father of the child are. The agent wouldn't have been able to confirm parenthood from a passport.

WN has that a birth certificate is required for children under 2 in their policies:
https://www.southwest.com/html/customer ... n-pol.html


Wrong. Government ID or birth certificate. Passport is most definitely a valid government ID:

From WN's own web site:

You must present a valid Government-issued I.D. providing age (child) or a birth certificate (infant) to the Customer Service Agent at the airport when you check in for your flight.


In your own quote I highlighted what you seem to be missing that it specifically says “or birth certificate (infant)”, so not just any govt issued I’d.

On WN’s website that I have already linked above under the traveling with infant section:

“A copy of the child's birth certificate is required to validate the age of all infants under two.”

Pretty clear cut IMO
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2103
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 11:32 pm

I would have no issues with the WN agents behavior, if, the father hadn't been present. If he has the same name as the children I don't see any reason to ask for more identification (this was a domestic flight). Now if both parents had different last names than the children or one parent is trying to leave the country with the kids, red flags would fly.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
bgm
Posts: 2173
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 11:35 pm

mcdu wrote:
Southwest employee questions legitimacy of mother traveling with Bi-racial child. The agent asked for birth certificate or a Facebook post. When did Facebook become an official document for proof of anything?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2018/05/30/cal-coach-lindsay-gottlieb-southwest-questioned-biracial-sons-id/654648002/


Ah, the UA employee desperately grasping at straws to dish dirt on any other airline to distract from whatever the latest UA FUBAR.

Nice try, better luck next time. :rotfl:
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
YellowJ
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:59 am

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 11:41 pm

bennett123 wrote:
If only the father had been present, (who had a matching surname to the child) was present, there would presumably be no concern.

If so, why the concern when both parents are present.


Interestingly enough, he was there. Unless the child carries neither parent name, I can't see how this became such a issue with both parents present.
 
indcwby
Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 11:41 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Doodle77 wrote:
I have no issues with how Southwest handled the situation whatsoever. In fact, I think they did a marvelous job. The child had a different last name from the mother and they were being abundantly cautious. I'm actually somewhat surprised the mother didn't thank them for ensuring the safety of the child but I guess that wouldn't fit the narrative that the mother is pushing about this being a racial issue. Feigned anger at its finest.


How often does WN check birth certificates, when both parents are present and the passport states the age age and verifies the identity of the child? One in ten, one in hundred or hardly never. It does not fit in your narrative that airline employees are harassing passengers.


I flew to MCO via WN yesterday. They checked for my kids birth certs or Photo ID. I had passports already made for them. I see nothing wrong with how they went about this.
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red66mustang
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:49 am

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 11:44 pm

YellowJ wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
If only the father had been present, (who had a matching surname to the child) was present, there would presumably be no concern.

If so, why the concern when both parents are present.


Interestingly enough, he was there. Unless the child carries neither parent name, I can't see how this became such a issue with both parents present.


Where in the article does it say he is there? Not refuting just didn’t see it when glancing over the article OP linked.
 
YellowJ
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:59 am

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 11:48 pm

red66mustang wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
If only the father had been present, (who had a matching surname to the child) was present, there would presumably be no concern.

If so, why the concern when both parents are present.


Interestingly enough, he was there. Unless the child carries neither parent name, I can't see how this became such a issue with both parents present.


Where in the article does it say he is there? Not refuting just didn’t see it when glancing over the article OP linked.


It was on the original tweet from the mother. That and a picture of all 3 of them. The father was holding the child.
 
red66mustang
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:49 am

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Wed May 30, 2018 11:50 pm

YellowJ wrote:
red66mustang wrote:
YellowJ wrote:

Interestingly enough, he was there. Unless the child carries neither parent name, I can't see how this became such a issue with both parents present.


Where in the article does it say he is there? Not refuting just didn’t see it when glancing over the article OP linked.


It was on the original tweet from the mother. That and a picture of all 3 of them. The father was holding the child.


Oh got it. I guess that isn’t loading on my phone. Thanks for clarifying.

With that being the case I wonder if maybe the father was away elsewhere in the airport (ie getting food, bathroom, etc) while mom went to check in so dad wasn’t around to confirm/verify before the initial conflict started? Otherwise I’d agree it is bizarre this would be an issue had both parents been present when the initial interaction began.
 
YellowJ
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:59 am

Re: Southwest ask mother to prove Bi-racial child is her own

Thu May 31, 2018 12:08 am

red66mustang wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
red66mustang wrote:

Where in the article does it say he is there? Not refuting just didn’t see it when glancing over the article OP linked.


It was on the original tweet from the mother. That and a picture of all 3 of them. The father was holding the child.


Oh got it. I guess that isn’t loading on my phone. Thanks for clarifying.

With that being the case I wonder if maybe the father was away elsewhere in the airport (ie getting food, bathroom, etc) while mom went to check in so dad wasn’t around to confirm/verify before the initial conflict started? Otherwise I’d agree it is bizarre this would be an issue had both parents been present when the initial interaction began.


You may actually be right. When I read this story earlier today, there was a picture of all 3 of them. It made it seem like both parent's were there.
Image

The lady also keeps saying we, but it's unclear from her tweets if she meant her husband as well.

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