Midwest Express Airlines Inc. has officially kicked off its comeback.
A group of industry executives filed a private stock offering with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission last week that marks the "first step in the process to bring back Midwest Express Airlines," according to Christine Williams, who is handling marketing and communications for the group. The group has no set timeline for returning Midwest Express to General Mitchell International Airport, but recently completed a round of fundraising, which the filing valued at $750,000, and plans to begin another one soon.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/n ... -step.html

Nice! I worked for them for about 8 months while in college in Boston...wish them all the best. It was a great outfit

Oh goody, another one.

Maybe it's just the article, but this really reads as them chasing nostalgia more than market demand.

....so what do you guys place on how long this one will last?

Probably won't even get off the ground unfortunately.

The wild card here is the Foxconn development about 20 minutes south of the airport. A $12 Billion investment/20 million SQ foot facility in a partner/supply chain heavy business is putting a lot of unlikely things back on the table.

Despite the odds, I REALLY hope they make a comeback. They’re one of a few airlines I truly miss seeing.

Curious to think about what a future fleet would look like.

sw733 wrote:

Sooo...cookies?

There is no point without the cookies.

Sooo...cookies?

jplatts wrote:

Runway28L wrote:

Despite the odds, I REALLY hope they make a comeback. They’re one of a few airlines I truly miss seeing.

Curious to think about what a future fleet would look like.

I agree that Midwest Express could make a comeback, even though Southwest does have opportunities to further expand at MKE by adding nonstop service from MKE to additional destinations that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from MKE.

How does this contribute to the thread? This is about a new Midwest Express. We're not talking about Southwest here.

evank516 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Runway28L wrote:

We're not talking about Southwest here.

Given that Southwest is dominating the market... its very appropriate to the subject. Given that domination, there is a lot of Southwest fatigue in town for business travelers. Direct flights, but packed to the gills.

LAX772LR wrote:

Oh goody, another one.

Maybe it's just the article, but this really reads as them chasing nostalgia more than market demand.

....so what do you guys place on how long this one will last?

My guess is after this thread reaches the 10th page...

As you point out, nostalgia runs deep on a.net. I can't see any startups making sense.

daus wrote:

evank516 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Given that Southwest is dominating the market... its very appropriate to the subject. Given that domination, there is a lot of Southwest fatigue in town for business travelers. Direct flights, but packed to the gills.

Not in the context the post was in. Yes, WN is a dominant player in MKE, but we're not talking about expansion opportunities here.

LAX772LR wrote:

Oh goody, another one.

Maybe it's just the article, but this really reads as them chasing nostalgia more than market demand.

....so what do you guys place on how long this one will last?

Midwest made their niche by providing Premium Services, at coach prices. Everything from Customer Services, food, baggage handling, and even cookies, was a cut above the rest.
When they tried to become the Everyman Airline, they fell apart.

Cookies man!

That airline was awesome. Domestically maybe GOAT..

I don’t see this happening. Loved the airline and flew it often. But the business plan of 88 seats in a plane designed for 130 seats was never going to work. And those 88 seat planes often went out half full. Yes, Foxconn is coming, but other industries have left, are in dire straights, or merged into bigger companies with now less travel demand. #wishfulthinking.

FlyingElvii wrote:

Midwest made their niche by providing Premium Services, at coach prices.

So did Legend and Virgin America.... what do all three have in common?

Some more details on their fundraising targets.

https://www.biztimes.com/2018/industrie ... -progress/

Unless the business plan has changed, the new Midwest Express plans to operate regional jets in Milwaukee markets where there’s enough business demand willing to pay for nonstop flights and business-friendly schedules. Pretty similar to what OneJet appears to aiming for.

The premium service of the old Midwest helped them to gain loyalty, but very, very few people were willing to pay more for the premium service. They did get people to pay more for convenient nonstop flights, but when they had nonstop competition undercutting their fares they needed to match them.

Starting a new airline is always, always a challenge, but I wonder if Milwaukee would have been more fertile before Southwest added Cleveland and Nashville and before OneJet, assuming OneJet gets their act together in MKE.

In that biztimes article, they say their effort are to buy a part 121 airline to jumpstart the operation. What airline are they planning on buying?

knope2001 wrote:

Unless the business plan has changed, the new Midwest Express plans to operate regional jets in Milwaukee markets where there’s enough business demand willing to pay for nonstop flights and business-friendly schedules. Pretty similar to what OneJet appears to aiming for.

The premium service of the old Midwest helped them to gain loyalty, but very, very few people were willing to pay more for the premium service. They did get people to pay more for convenient nonstop flights, but when they had nonstop competition undercutting their fares they needed to match them.

Starting a new airline is always, always a challenge, but I wonder if Milwaukee would have been more fertile before Southwest added Cleveland and Nashville and before OneJet, assuming OneJet gets their act together in MKE.

OneJet's current issues revolve mainly around problems with the Beechjet's, and those are being replaced. The merger with Ultimate is going to change things as well.

This thing is screaming C-Series 2x2 config.

DL717 wrote:

This thing is screaming C-Series 2x2 config.

Not starting with 6 to 8 million. Best thye can attempt to use are some second third or forth hand CRJ's

What are the odds of this even happening? The routes that the original served are more than satisfied now.

ridgid727 wrote:

DL717 wrote:

This thing is screaming C-Series 2x2 config.

Not starting with 6 to 8 million. Best thye can attempt to use are some second third or forth hand CRJ's

The $6-8 million is just for staffing and the certificate. IPO would raise funds to actually fly, if I'm reading this right.

ridgid727 wrote:

In that biztimes article, they say their effort are to buy a part 121 airline to jumpstart the operation. What airline are they planning on buying?

Could be a partnership with Dynamic International Airways and they can rebrand as Eastern Midwest Airlines. Seriously, when your business plan relies on the goodwill from a brand from 20 years ago - it's going to be tough.

I think those wanting to revive airlines overestimate the general flying public's interest in nostalgia. At the end of the day, for most, selecting an airline is a decision that come down to one of or a combination of: price, schedule, reliability, quality and/or frequent flyer affiliation.

daus wrote:

ridgid727 wrote:

DL717 wrote:

This thing is screaming C-Series 2x2 config.

Not starting with 6 to 8 million. Best thye can attempt to use are some second third or forth hand CRJ's

The $6-8 million is just for staffing and the certificate. IPO would raise funds to actually fly, if I'm reading this right.

An IPO for an airline with no planes and no flights is not going to raise enough money to buy new planes.

The business plan sounds like they are going to go the California Pacific/Ultimate Air/Via air/Elite airways/etc route and buy used CRJs/ERJs.

Also interesting to note that in the poll provided by the article, "Do you think Midwest Express can be successful in its comeback?"...

74% voted yes.

Sure, 281 isn't the largest sample size. But talk about high optimism... which is no where to be found on A.net of course.

Runway28L wrote:

Also interesting to note that in the poll provided by the article, "Do you think Midwest Express can be successful in its comeback?"...

74% voted yes.

Sure, 281 isn't the largest sample size. But talk about high optimism... which is no where to be found on A.net of course.

Not only is the sample size small - but most probably also the business acumen of most of those in the sample.

Runway28L wrote:

Also interesting to note that in the poll provided by the article, "Do you think Midwest Express can be successful in its comeback?"...

74% voted yes.

Sure, 281 isn't the largest sample size. But talk about high optimism... which is no where to be found on A.net of course.

Midwest Express was an anomaly in the airline industry. It had such an obscenely positive reputation that people can't help but want it back.

I remember flying Midwest back in 05ish~ from PHL to MCI. The flight canceled and we were re routed through MKE. I remember the guy next to me saying "Now I get to fly in business class twice!"

It was like the polar opposite of spirit airlines today. People wanted to be there.

The airline would make a great E195e2 operator. 120-130 brown leather seats at 32+ inch pitch.

DL717 wrote:

This thing is screaming C-Series 2x2 config.

Imagine a Midwest Express using C-Series 100. The most comfortable cabin in the industry. We are dreaming but I would love to see that someday.

I think it stands a chance as a limited market airline for primarily business travelers (who will pay a bit more for more convenient routing and decent service). That was how the original Midwest started. They really only got into trouble when they tried to tap into the general public market. I used to fly them a fair amount out of Milwaukee...

Have a great day,

Varsity1 wrote:

Midwest Express was an anomaly in the airline industry. It had such an obscenely positive reputation that people can't help but want it back.

I remember flying Midwest back in 05ish~ from PHL to MCI. The flight canceled and we were re routed through MKE. I remember the guy next to me saying "Now I get to fly in business class twice!"

It was like the polar opposite of spirit airlines today. People wanted to be there.

Started out my career getting Lobster and Beef Wellington with Champagne (and cookies) on DC to Milwaukee each week. Ruined me forever. I have 2 rows of seats in the basement from the liquidation.

Hard for people to even comprehend these days. Hence the loyalty.

Are there some cheap, airworthy DC9-10s sitting around??

daus wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

Midwest Express was an anomaly in the airline industry. It had such an obscenely positive reputation that people can't help but want it back.

I remember flying Midwest back in 05ish~ from PHL to MCI. The flight canceled and we were re routed through MKE. I remember the guy next to me saying "Now I get to fly in business class twice!"

It was like the polar opposite of spirit airlines today. People wanted to be there.

Started out my career getting Lobster and Beef Wellington with Champagne (and cookies) on DC to Milwaukee each week. Ruined me forever. I have 2 rows of seats in the basement from the liquidation.

Hard for people to even comprehend these days. Hence the loyalty.

I remember the first time I flew Midwest. Guy next to me is settling in for a quick nap and goes "Wake me up when the cookies come by." Okay, I say to myself. Guy must love himself some cookies. Sure enough, cookies come by and rouse him awake. True to his word, they were amazing.

As much as it may be fun to dream about a premium-seating domestic airline or speculate what aircraft would work, there simply isn't a market to support a profitable "premium service at coach fares" model. It's failed time after time after time.

The only time it made money was Midwest Express which ran profits for nearly 15 consecutive years in spite of the premium service at coach fares model. Midwest's success was driven by a relentless focus on serving business traffic with nonstop flights timed for business traffic. It happened at a time when fuel was cheap and business fares were universally high. And it worked in a market large enough to support them but not so large as to support competition.

The premium service gave them a competitive advantage when big airlines challenged them. Again and again through the late 80's and 90's Midwest beat back high-fare competitors trying to push into Milwaukee --NW to LGA, CO to EWR, AA to DFW twice, NW and US to PHL, NW and DL* to BOS, NW to DCA, HP to CMH, CO to CLE, etc. But Midwest couldn't compete against low-fare airlines, and as fuel costs rose their business model got squeezed from both ends. Just as every failed premium-service airline already learned before, very few customers are wiling to pay higher coach fares for premium service.

The leaders of the new Midwest Express know this very well. Some of them lived this in the later years of Midwest.

The new Midwest Express model goes back to the tight focus on travelers willing to pay more for convenient nonstop flights, especially those looking for business-friendly schedules. If anything it might be more appropriate to consider them a restart of Midwest's commuter carrier Skyway. Skyway did very well for years without a premium onboard product. It was all about convenience for business travelers willing to pay relatively high fares. That's what they are hoping to do again.

daus wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

Midwest Express was an anomaly in the airline industry. It had such an obscenely positive reputation that people can't help but want it back.

I remember flying Midwest back in 05ish~ from PHL to MCI. The flight canceled and we were re routed through MKE. I remember the guy next to me saying "Now I get to fly in business class twice!"

It was like the polar opposite of spirit airlines today. People wanted to be there.

Started out my career getting Lobster and Beef Wellington with Champagne (and cookies) on DC to Milwaukee each week. Ruined me forever. I have 2 rows of seats in the basement from the liquidation.

Hard for people to even comprehend these days. Hence the loyalty.

They sure did spoil us in the prime years. Kind of funny how the cookies became such a symbol because for many years they were only on lunch flights, something of a consolation because lunch was cold. Breakfast and dinner where hot (hence no cookies - the ovens were busy). My favorite dinner was the ribs, finished with key lime pie but there were several great menus. Complementary wine and hot towel service. And one FA for every 28-30 seats. On occasion I lucked out on flights with an added FA doing training -- three on a 60-seat DC9 or four on an 84-seat D9S. On the 1:40 MKE-DCA fight with 3 FA on the DC9 we had a beverage pass, meal pass, hot towel service, coffer service and a final pass with the beverage cart. Spoiled...

But I was pretty much just has happy to spend $550 to fly nonstop to Columbus and back for a day trip to a client -- no need to stay overnight and if things ended early a fair chance at snagging an earlier flight home.

As a YX alum, please don't ruin the name any further by trying to bring it back.

The market that made YX successful in its prime just doesn't exist in the same way anymore.

Now, if you wanted to start an airline that had all of the above-board customer service, but with standard coach seating arrangements so as to be able to have competitive fares, you could be on to something, but any sort of reduced-seating layout just isn't going to be viable.

Also, Southwest is relevant to this discussion because WN could easily ramp up flights to prospective New Midwest destinations to squeeze them out.

Yet another attempt to revive a long dead brand. Interesting but it's a shame they don't do something innovative But interesting I wish them luck the market needs competition badly.

The key to their success will be a good code-share.

Maybe with Braniff?

MKENut wrote:

DL717 wrote:

This thing is screaming C-Series 2x2 config.

Imagine a Midwest Express using C-Series 100. The most comfortable cabin in the industry. We are dreaming but I would love to see that someday.

Republic buys Midwest.
Republic buys Frontier.
Frontier hubs Milwaukee.
Republic kills Midwest.
Republic orders CS100 for Frontier.
Frontier de-hubs Milwaukee.
Republic sells Frontier.
Republic has CS100 for nobody.
Midwest rises from the dead.
Midwest takes CS100 from Republic.
Midwest hubs Milwaukee.

The circle of life!

I hope it comes back and fails miserably just to spite the people of Milwaukee. Their public protest to AirTran buying YX and the “save the cookie” campaign was embarrassing. DL and WN own MKE now and will ensure that they flood any market that the new YX tries to take from them.

airtran737 wrote:

I hope it comes back and fails miserably just to spite the people of Milwaukee. Their public protest to AirTran buying YX and the “save the cookie” campaign was embarrassing. DL and WN own MKE now and will ensure that they flood any market that the new YX tries to take from them.

I don’t think this is going to be a successful venture but this has to be the pettiest reason I have ever seen someone wish failure on an airline for.

[photoid][/photoid]

OB1504 wrote:

airtran737 wrote:

I hope it comes back and fails miserably just to spite the people of Milwaukee. Their public protest to AirTran buying YX and the “save the cookie” campaign was embarrassing. DL and WN own MKE now and will ensure that they flood any market that the new YX tries to take from them.

I don’t think this is going to be a successful venture but this has to be the pettiest reason I have ever seen someone wish failure on an airline for.

Call it what you want. WN could have still acquired FL, and all of those YX employees would be making Southwest money now. But nope. Their precious re-heated cookies were so important to preserve that they allowed Reverend Bedford to come in and blow sunshine up their behinds. It didn’t work out for the YX employees very well now did it?

airtran737 wrote:

I hope it comes back and fails miserably just to spite the people of Milwaukee. Their public protest to AirTran buying YX and the “save the cookie” campaign was embarrassing. DL and WN own MKE now and will ensure that they flood any market that the new YX tries to take from them.

Still some butt hurt here from an former Airtran Employee? Airtran was willing to spend 500 Million to purchase Midwest. Pretty high price to pay to satisfy that big ego of Joe Leonard.

daus wrote:

The wild card here is the Foxconn development about 20 minutes south of the airport. A $12 Billion investment/20 million SQ foot facility in a partner/supply chain heavy business is putting a lot of unlikely things back on the table.

I think the travel boom may be over estimated. Supply chain logistical decisions will continue to be done in TPE. There will be some contractors and others coming from regional cities but likely not the amount of traffic to justify a focus city by a new airline.

There may be an early opportunity as workers settle in to have additional seasonal frequencies to leisure destinations.