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Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:47 am

dredgy wrote:
kriskim wrote:
According to Ethiopian Airlines Group CEO Tewolde Gebremariam, the airline is looking at flying to MEL via BKK, SIN or SEZ.


SEZ would be an interesting choice. By all accounts PER to MRU is doing pretty well, with my calculation putting it at 80% load factor.
Would definitely be potential for the Seychelles as a tourist destination from Australia and I can’t see anyone else opening the route.

BKK and SIN would be very competitive, in both the low cost and full service market, and I have a gut feeling that Ethiopian would be avoided by the general public even if it was the cheapest option.


I presume they can't make ADD-MEL direct due to the altitude of ADD? I think it'll be a hard route to make any money on, particularly if it's not nonstop. If they can fly it nonstop they could pick up some (low yielding) Oz-Europe traffic to supplement the O&D traffic.

Via SIN/BKK they have to compete with SQ/TG/Every other one-stop option so they lose any advantage they had for O&D
 
jman
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:23 am

Hornberger wrote:
jman wrote:
Hornberger wrote:
What would be the real world range of 787-10 for QA or JQ?

Based on the following configurations:
QA: 32J (78") + 300Y (31")
JQ: 28J (38") + 400Y (29")

Would it be able to fly routes such as:
MEL - HON (8,900 km)
MEL - PEK (9,100 km)
SYD - BOM (10,200 km)


JQ already fly to Honolulu with the 787-8

I am aware of that. My question is about the 787-10.


Well if the 78708 can do it and the 787-10 has more than enough range, i'm sure that either configuration can do it
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:26 am

Could ET get traffic rights on the second sector if they did ADD-PER-MEL?

I still think PER is the ideal point for an African carrier, and then team up with QF or VA and slap a codeshare on flights to the eastern states.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:36 am

If ET operate from ADD to MEL, it won't be for the point-to-point traffic or the Oz-Europe traffic as suggested above, but would be seeking to leverage ADD's position as a hub serving just about all of Africa with frequencies better than any other carrier.
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dredgy
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:42 am

Qantas16 wrote:
dredgy wrote:
kriskim wrote:
According to Ethiopian Airlines Group CEO Tewolde Gebremariam, the airline is looking at flying to MEL via BKK, SIN or SEZ.


SEZ would be an interesting choice. By all accounts PER to MRU is doing pretty well, with my calculation putting it at 80% load factor.
Would definitely be potential for the Seychelles as a tourist destination from Australia and I can’t see anyone else opening the route.

BKK and SIN would be very competitive, in both the low cost and full service market, and I have a gut feeling that Ethiopian would be avoided by the general public even if it was the cheapest option.


I presume they can't make ADD-MEL direct due to the altitude of ADD? I think it'll be a hard route to make any money on, particularly if it's not nonstop. If they can fly it nonstop they could pick up some (low yielding) Oz-Europe traffic to supplement the O&D traffic.

Via SIN/BKK they have to compete with SQ/TG/Every other one-stop option so they lose any advantage they had for O&D


I'm not sure on the operational viability, but I don't think an ADD non-stop flight would make a lot of financial sense. Sure, MEL has a large Sudanese/East African diaspora, but not enough to justify a frequent service. Business ties with Africa are small and mostly concentrated in South Africa, and Ethiopia isn't high on the list of destinations for leisure travellers (though it could be marketed as such), plus ADD isn't as geographically convenient to Europe as the Middle East for connecting traffic.

A one-stop option that can take O&D traffic from Australia to Africa but also connect Australians non-stop to a more in-demand destination is probably the smart way to go, even if direct flights were possible.

Via BKK/SIN they're also competing with Jetstar and Scoot in addition to Singapore & Thai airlines. While it's a high demand market, I think ET slapping a codeshare on the TG/SQ flights (if they don't already) makes more sense as Ethiopian will not be anyone's first choice (was talking to a flight attendant and they said a large proportion of western passengers are surprised that they have food onboard).

Via SEZ (or MLE for that matter), they have the potential of capturing a new market. It's not without risk, but the Seychelles is a very marketable destination for both high & low-spending leisure travellers.
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:45 am

jman wrote:
Hornberger wrote:
jman wrote:

JQ already fly to Honolulu with the 787-8

I am aware of that. My question is about the 787-10.


Well if the 78708 can do it and the 787-10 has more than enough range, i'm sure that either configuration can do it


The 787-8 has more range than the 787-10, so its not a case if the 787-8 can do it the -10 will.

Out of all the routes, SYD-BOM is probably the most marginal, the other 2 should be achievable.
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SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:49 am

dredgy wrote:
as Ethiopian will not be anyone's first choice (was talking to a flight attendant and they said a large proportion of western passengers are surprised that they have food onboard).


Because they thought Ethiopian was a LCC carrier or because it is an African carrier?
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dredgy
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:56 am

SYDSpotter wrote:
dredgy wrote:
as Ethiopian will not be anyone's first choice (was talking to a flight attendant and they said a large proportion of western passengers are surprised that they have food onboard).


Because they thought Ethiopian was a LCC carrier or because it is an African carrier?


Specifically because it's an Ethiopian carrier - Ethiopia has a strong perception of being a starving country thanks to the whole Bob Geldof thing. I think the general public would have second thoughts about flying to Europe via ADD, unless it was significantly cheaper than via Brunei or Guanghzhou which are already at rock-bottom prices. But of course I could be very much wrong - they do fine in other Western countries with the same perception.
 
Ryanair01
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:02 am

SYDSpotter wrote:
dredgy wrote:
as Ethiopian will not be anyone's first choice (was talking to a flight attendant and they said a large proportion of western passengers are surprised that they have food onboard).


Because they thought Ethiopian was a LCC carrier or because it is an African carrier?


Sounds like a reference to the great famine the farmers in Ethiopia had in 1984.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%8 ... n_Ethiopia
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:16 am

dredgy wrote:
SYDSpotter wrote:
dredgy wrote:
as Ethiopian will not be anyone's first choice (was talking to a flight attendant and they said a large proportion of western passengers are surprised that they have food onboard).


Because they thought Ethiopian was a LCC carrier or because it is an African carrier?


Specifically because it's an Ethiopian carrier - Ethiopia has a strong perception of being a starving country thanks to the whole Bob Geldof thing.


Right, so the carrier can afford a $200m aircraft but can't afford to include a $5 meal as part of the fare? Not discounting the conversation you had with the flight attendant, but "large proportion" may have been an exaggeration (the flight attendant's claim).

But I don't think ET's main aim is AUS-Europe traffic, its very much about AUS-Africa traffic. Going via BKK/CAN is a no brainer as they currently capture a large proportion of the Asia-Africa market out of these two ports.
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dredgy
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:37 am

SYDSpotter wrote:
dredgy wrote:
SYDSpotter wrote:

Because they thought Ethiopian was a LCC carrier or because it is an African carrier?


Specifically because it's an Ethiopian carrier - Ethiopia has a strong perception of being a starving country thanks to the whole Bob Geldof thing.


Right, so the carrier can afford a $200m aircraft but can't afford to include a $5 meal as part of the fare? Not discounting the conversation you had with the flight attendant, but "large proportion" may have been an exaggeration.

But I don't think ET's main aim is AUS-Europe traffic, its very much about AUS-Africa traffic. Going via BKK/CAN is a no brainer as they currently capture a large proportion of the Asia-Africa market out of these two ports.


I've actually had the conversation with multiple flight attendants & a corporate travel agent (as well as everyone made stupid jokes about it in the office every time I had to fly them - Have you ever tried Ethiopian food? Neither have they). For me it's just amusing bordering on annoying, but the perception is there. Not sure if it's a big deal or not, I was just mentioning it as an aside because I don't think it would be a problem to anyone who is specifically travelling to Africa, but to those who might be booking through to Europe and just after the cheapest fare - which I completely agree with you in that I don't think that is the market ET is aiming for - but I don't think the African to Australia market is sizeable enough to warrant a direct flight, I would say there needs to be an intermediate stop.

While ET carries significant traffic between Asia & Africa, for the Australian leg, they have partners in TG and SQ who offer better products, good prices & established brand presence so I see little compelling reason for them to operate the flight on their own metal unless they actually think they can capture a healthy slice of the MEL-Asia market (and hey, the market might be big enough for another player) but they have to compete against Qantas, Jetstar, Thai, Singapore, Scoot etc. Every demographic is covered, so there would be no point-of-difference for ET in my point of view.

Via Seychelles makes more sense to me is all - they'd be exclusive operating a route that could appeal to both low and high-end traffic, still provide the most convenient routing to Africa & have high loads on both the MEL to SEZ and SEZ to ADD flights.

No matter which way they go, I'm sure they'll have done their research and have a solid business case, and I'll be very happy if they announce MEL-BKK-ADD!
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:50 am

dredgy wrote:

I've actually had the conversation with multiple flight attendants & a corporate travel agent (as well as everyone made stupid jokes about it in the office every time I had to fly them - Have you ever tried Ethiopian food? Neither have they). For me it's just amusing bordering on annoying, but the perception is there.


It's extremely ignorant!

I flew Ethiopian back in 2012 and I certainly wasn't surprised they had catering onboard. Despite flying in Y, I thought the catering was quite tasty.

dredgy wrote:
they have partners in TG and SQ who offer better products, good prices & established brand presence so I see little compelling reason for them to operate the flight on their own metal


They do, but ultimately carrying passengers on your own metal brings in more $ compared with a codeshare. Whilst ET are no EK, a stop via Asia is ultimately there to capture Oz-Asia and Asia-Africa traffic to supplement the Oz-Africa traffic (similar to how EK does this with their SIN/BKK stops to DXB). How well a 1 stop to ADD does in the current environment with plenty of other competing options is the question...
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XAM2175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:34 am

ben175 wrote:
Could ET get traffic rights on the second sector if they did ADD-PER-MEL?


No - only online connections, like CX get out of CNS or UA used to get on SYD-MEL, or QF on LAX-JFK.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:04 pm

I think any flight wouldn’t be daily anyways, so they could launch maybe 3 weekly to PER, and 2 weekly (on different days to PER) to either MEL/SYD if they really wanted east coast.
If they then did a codeshare deal with either QF or VA on the domestic flights for PER-MEL/SYD you would essentially have a pretty good solution. Given VA is the most convenient for connections to international in PER they could be the most logical, as per SA and MK arrangements, assuming of course PER keeps the same terminal arrangement ongoing, given the recent QF PER-JNB issue, can’t see PER changing anytime soon.
That way you’d have pretty good coverage all on ET flight numbers.
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:34 pm

dredgy wrote:
SYDSpotter wrote:
dredgy wrote:

Specifically because it's an Ethiopian carrier - Ethiopia has a strong perception of being a starving country thanks to the whole Bob Geldof thing.


Right, so the carrier can afford a $200m aircraft but can't afford to include a $5 meal as part of the fare? Not discounting the conversation you had with the flight attendant, but "large proportion" may have been an exaggeration.

But I don't think ET's main aim is AUS-Europe traffic, its very much about AUS-Africa traffic. Going via BKK/CAN is a no brainer as they currently capture a large proportion of the Asia-Africa market out of these two ports.


I've actually had the conversation with multiple flight attendants & a corporate travel agent (as well as everyone made stupid jokes about it in the office every time I had to fly them - Have you ever tried Ethiopian food? Neither have they). For me it's just amusing bordering on annoying, but the perception is there. Not sure if it's a big deal or not, I was just mentioning it as an aside because I don't think it would be a problem to anyone who is specifically travelling to Africa, but to those who might be booking through to Europe and just after the cheapest fare - which I completely agree with you in that I don't think that is the market ET is aiming for - but I don't think the African to Australia market is sizeable enough to warrant a direct flight, I would say there needs to be an intermediate stop.

While ET carries significant traffic between Asia & Africa, for the Australian leg, they have partners in TG and SQ who offer better products, good prices & established brand presence so I see little compelling reason for them to operate the flight on their own metal unless they actually think they can capture a healthy slice of the MEL-Asia market (and hey, the market might be big enough for another player) but they have to compete against Qantas, Jetstar, Thai, Singapore, Scoot etc. Every demographic is covered, so there would be no point-of-difference for ET in my point of view.

Via Seychelles makes more sense to me is all - they'd be exclusive operating a route that could appeal to both low and high-end traffic, still provide the most convenient routing to Africa & have high loads on both the MEL to SEZ and SEZ to ADD flights.

No matter which way they go, I'm sure they'll have done their research and have a solid business case, and I'll be very happy if they announce MEL-BKK-ADD!



Looks like they're proably going after the mining traffic as well as the leisure/VFR market. BHP, Rio Tinto, and other mining companies are headquartered in Melbourne, even though a lot of their operations are run out of Perth these days.
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
kriskim
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:47 pm

Obzerva wrote:
I think any flight wouldn’t be daily anyways, so they could launch maybe 3 weekly to PER, and 2 weekly (on different days to PER) to either MEL/SYD if they really wanted east coast.
If they then did a codeshare deal with either QF or VA on the domestic flights for PER-MEL/SYD you would essentially have a pretty good solution. Given VA is the most convenient for connections to international in PER they could be the most logical, as per SA and MK arrangements, assuming of course PER keeps the same terminal arrangement ongoing, given the recent QF PER-JNB issue, can’t see PER changing anytime soon.
That way you’d have pretty good coverage all on ET flight numbers.


But the article states that ET wants to fly to MEL, and not PER?

I don't know the rationale of people thinking that anything west of Australia like Africa and Sri Lanka, India is better to be operated from PER. People said that about UL too, but UL is doing just fine out of MEL. There are many other factors and its not just about the location of PER and the East Coast cities. I'm pretty sure ET knows what it is doing, and it seems that they have chosen MEL as their destination of choice in Australia.
A world built upon connectivity.
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:38 am

I’m on QF63 today to JNB and we are boarding at a remote stand... can’t remember the last time, if ever, I’ve boarded a 747 via stairs!

SYD is absolute chaos in the morning. Didn’t realise it was as bad, if not worse than MEL.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:19 am

ben175 wrote:
Could ET get traffic rights on the second sector if they did ADD-PER-MEL?

I still think PER is the ideal point for an African carrier, and then team up with QF or VA and slap a codeshare on flights to the eastern states.

No, but I think they could get rights on ADD - PER - AKL (with AKL being a Star hub), if they wanted. I doubt it would happen, though.

Cheers,

C.
 
TN486
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:35 am

I love A.net even more when it is mentioned they had to board a 747 by the stairs!! Wow, welcome to the dream of flight. We all too pampered these days.
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MooLor
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:35 am

Sorry to butt into the MEL thread... :D

One contribution in this week's Fairfax 'traveller' letters re cramped 787 Y, and several rants about same in the 'comments' section at bottom.
http://www.traveller.com.au/traveller-letters-rants--raves-h117kw

None of the comments are by me btw. :smile:
 
Whatsaptudo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:07 am

MooLor wrote:
Sorry to butt into the MEL thread... :D

One contribution in this week's Fairfax 'traveller' letters re cramped 787 Y, and several rants about same in the 'comments' section at bottom.
http://www.traveller.com.au/traveller-letters-rants--raves-h117kw

None of the comments are by me btw. :smile:


Rubbish. The A330 seats are narrower and have less legroom than the 787.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:19 am

Whatsaptudo wrote:
Rubbish. The A330 seats are narrower and have less legroom than the 787.


That's rubbish.
2-4-2 in a 330 is about an inch wider than 3-3-3 in a 787 (for QF Configs)
The 787 does have another inch of legroom on the 330.

Now AirAsiaX and CebuPacifics 3-3-3 in a 330 is tight.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:25 am

Keep the thread on topic. To the NZ users who consistently put an AKL or NZ angle on things in this thread, you have your own thread so stop derailing this one, it does not belong in the Australian Aviation thread. It also shows a general lack of disrespect to the others users who use the Australian thread in the correct manner, and I will also point out that the Australian users do not go onto the NZ thread and try and derail it as in the same manner as it happens in the Australian thread. I and the other moderators will not tolerate threads being consistently being derailed by off topic discussions, those who are found to repeatedly violating this will be dealt with accordingly.
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Whatsaptudo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:33 am

QF A330 economy seats are 17inches wide, the 787 is 17.2. My comments are about Qantas, as the comments at the bottom of the page refer.
 
gardermoen
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:38 am

kriskim wrote:
According to Ethiopian Airlines Group CEO Tewolde Gebremariam, the airline is looking at flying to MEL via BKK, SIN or SEZ.

In a related news, Ethiopian is planning to connect Africa with Australia by air transport. On the sidelines of the 74th Annual General Meeting of the International Air Transport Association (IATA) and World Air Transport Summit that was held in Sydney, Australia, Tewolde told The Reporter that Ethiopian was undertaking a study on the Australian market. “We are planning to open a new route between Addis Ababa and Melbourne. We are targeting Ethiopian and other African diaspora residing in Australia,” Tewolde said. The flag carrier is planning to fly to Melbourne via Bangkok, Singapore or Seychelles.

Read More: https://www.thereporterethiopia.com/art ... ional-jets



MEL makes the only real sense for ET in Australia. It can cater very well to the African diaspora here (Ethiopia, Sudan) as well as other travel to Kenya. As with other ports, ET needs only a 3-4 weekly service to cater for the market - one stop or not. Just look at its so called milk runs it operates to Asia and Europe. I can see a 3-4 weekly 350/787 service via Asia catering to the market it intends to capture. This market currently uses the ME3 via their respective hubs - a market I am sure ET has been monitoring for quite a while.
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:54 am

MooLor wrote:
Sorry to butt into the MEL thread... :D

One contribution in this week's Fairfax 'traveller' letters re cramped 787 Y, and several rants about same in the 'comments' section at bottom.
http://www.traveller.com.au/traveller-letters-rants--raves-h117kw

None of the comments are by me btw. :smile:


The 'traveller letters' are cringeworthy, its always full of people complaining about the most minor of things and also usually full of errors, one example was someone complaining about the economy A380 seating on QF and apparently that their experience in economy on CX's A380 was so much better :rotfl:
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aerohottie
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:35 am

Whatsaptudo wrote:
QF A330 economy seats are 17inches wide, the 787 is 17.2. My comments are about Qantas, as the comments at the bottom of the page refer.

While those measurements are true in terms of seat cushion width, it is not true of seat space, measuring from the same point between the seats. Seat cushion width measurements is a trick used by airlines to justify smaller seats. Which became a common ploy when 777 operators went from 9 abreast to 10 abreast and claimed the seat widths were the same... technically true, but a lie in terms of actual space a passenger has per seat.

A more accurate measurement of seat space is measurement between the armrests and measurement between the same point on each seat.
What?
 
Whatsaptudo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:47 am

That’s interesting. In that case, why is the A330 seat measured differently? Why wouldn’t QF use the same logic and advertise a bigger A330 seat?
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:48 am

gardermoen wrote:
MEL makes the only real sense for ET in Australia. It can cater very well to the African diaspora here (Ethiopia, Sudan) as well as other travel to Kenya.

That's if you're just relying on VFR traffic, but what about other aspects like i) business traffic, ii) tourism traffic and iii) European connections?

SYD would also be in the running on these indicators, no? ET has very low costs, which, in particular, may give it juice on the Kangaroo route.

With EY dropping PER and QF not launching PER - JNB, as well as the supposed recovery in the WA economy, PER might also stand a shot?

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:54 am

9W is considering launching BOM - SYD - very interesting timing, given AI's recent issues too.

See: https://bdnews24.com/business/2018/06/1 ... ar-at-home.

9W is a QF partner, so a QF JV might help to sustain the route against AI's Australian flights?

Cheers,

C.
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:12 am

planemanofnz wrote:
9W is a QF partner, so a QF JV might help to sustain the route against AI's Australian flights?


Yes, without a doubt.

9W’s problem is aircraft availability though. They still haven’t committed to a delivery schedule for their 787s so I would assume that any launch would be at least 18 months away.
 
Flyingsottsman
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:24 am

If ET does start MELB which I hope it does, I wonder if that might entice Kenya Airways to give Australia ago as well. I recon to once ET starts Melbourne, give it time and then I recon Sydney will be their next destination in Australia. What's the latest in TK starting Sydney?
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:26 am

qf002 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
9W is a QF partner, so a QF JV might help to sustain the route against AI's Australian flights?


Yes, without a doubt.

9W’s problem is aircraft availability though. They still haven’t committed to a delivery schedule for their 787s so I would assume that any launch would be at least 18 months away.

Their new partnership with DL might free up a frame from the US though?

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:29 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
If ET does start MELB which I hope it does, I wonder if that might entice Kenya Airways to give Australia ago as well.

On the contrary, I'd think it'd put them off starting Australia, given the increased competition. AFAIK, they aren't doing too well at the moment, so I'd doubt they'd go down under.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:32 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
What's the latest in TK starting Sydney?

The last indication I can find from TK is late last year.

“We would have started flying to Sydney last year but we had faced many problems such as terror and the coup attempt. Therefore, we had postponed it. Next year (2018), we will fly there for sure,” he said.

".. the Star Alliance member has both Sydney and Melbourne in its sights, with flights to Istanbul tipped to run via Singapore."

See:
- http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/sydney ... thy-117981.
- https://www.ausbt.com.au/with-boeing-78 ... -australia.

Cheers,

C.
 
MooLor
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:39 am

SYDSpotter wrote:
MooLor wrote:
Sorry to butt into the MEL thread... :D

One contribution in this week's Fairfax 'traveller' letters re cramped 787 Y, and several rants about same in the 'comments' section at bottom.
http://www.traveller.com.au/traveller-letters-rants--raves-h117kw

None of the comments are by me btw. :smile:


The 'traveller letters' are cringeworthy, its always full of people complaining about the most minor of things and also usually full of errors, one example was someone complaining about the economy A380 seating on QF and apparently that their experience in economy on CX's A380 was so much better :rotfl:


Agreed re the the whining that goes on on that letters page. That someone has a whinge about the "squeeziness" of 787 Y is hardly worth mentioning, but when more than a few chimed in with "that's right!" style comments it caught my eye. QF's ULH strategy is not set in stone, but they must be praying that this sentiment does not gain traction. As can be witnessed across a.net when anyone points out that 787 Y is a bit tight. (Love the way someone invariably chimes in with "but but but Cebu Pacific... !!" :lol: )

Thought it was worth highlighting what "Joe Public" is saying out there on a well-read MSM site.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1830
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:43 am

Whatsaptudo wrote:
QF A330 economy seats are 17inches wide, the 787 is 17.2. My comments are about Qantas, as the comments at the bottom of the page refer.

Show me your source.

Mine indicates QF's A330 is a full 1 inch wider than 789; 18.2 inch instead of 17 as you claimed: http://theqantassource.com/seatmaps/332 ... yavod.html

While for 787-9 it's the 17.2" as you said: http://theqantassource.com/seatmaps/789/42j28w166y.html

Michael
 
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Qantas94Heavy
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:04 pm

Hornberger wrote:
What would be the real world range of 787-10 for QA or JQ?

Based on the following configurations:
QA: 32J (78") + 300Y (31")
JQ: 28J (38") + 400Y (29")

Would it be able to fly routes such as:
MEL - HON (8,900 km)
MEL - PEK (9,100 km)
SYD - BOM (10,200 km)


Assuming a 137 t OEW, 110 kg/pax (J), 100 kg/pax (Y), still air range from ACAPS is about 6200 nm for QF and 5300 nm for JQ.

Adding a 10% reduction for real world operations gets you 5580 nm and 4770 nm respectively.

These values are taken using your assumed seat configuration, a different configuration will give different results.

If you're wondering why the Jetstar number is so low, it's mainly the much higher seat capacity compared to Boeing's numbers (428 vs 330). Jetstar's 787-8 range is similarly lower than Boeing's numbers by around 1800 nm (5500 vs 7355 nm):


So, to answer your question:

  • MEL-HNL would be about the limit for JQ, probably might need payload restrictions for contingencies.
  • MEL-PEK should be okay for QF.
  • SYD-BOM would also be okay, but a bit close.
Last edited by Qantas94Heavy on Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
Whatsaptudo
Posts: 110
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:12 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
Whatsaptudo wrote:
QF A330 economy seats are 17inches wide, the 787 is 17.2. My comments are about Qantas, as the comments at the bottom of the page refer.

Show me your source.

Mine indicates QF's A330 is a full 1 inch wider than 789; 18.2 inch instead of 17 as you claimed: http://theqantassource.com/seatmaps/332 ... yavod.html

While for 787-9 it's the 17.2" as you said: http://theqantassource.com/seatmaps/789/42j28w166y.html

Michael


https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Qanta ... 0-300.php#
 
moa999
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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:04 pm

Sadly Seatguru is known for errors as much as accuracy..
With no decimal point it's not worth quoting.

AusBT also quotes 17.2 for the 787, and 17.5 for the A380, but no detail on 330
https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-boeing- ... lass-seats

(And yeh i did mention AirAsiaX and Cebu, but yes agree they are very much an LCC)
QFs 787s have the same seat width as BA, Qatar, Etihad, Virgin Atlantic, Latam, United, American, Air NZ...
(Oh and Jetstar, Scoot, Tui and Norwegian)

I've flown the 787 on 3 full service and 3 LCCs - they are all fairly similar down the back in width - but pitch, seat padding and design, IFE and service vary

Just JAL and some of ANA that are different
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1830
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:17 pm

Whatsaptudo wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Whatsaptudo wrote:
QF A330 economy seats are 17inches wide, the 787 is 17.2. My comments are about Qantas, as the comments at the bottom of the page refer.

Show me your source.

Mine indicates QF's A330 is a full 1 inch wider than 789; 18.2 inch instead of 17 as you claimed: http://theqantassource.com/seatmaps/332 ... yavod.html

While for 787-9 it's the 17.2" as you said: http://theqantassource.com/seatmaps/789/42j28w166y.html

Michael


https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Qanta ... 0-300.php#

Unfortunately I never trust seatguru in even one instance, ever. Although never been onto QF's 789, I'll show you some examples from my experience (Qantas and other) where seatguru is just not right.

QF 738 vs QF 332 C: seatguru is telling me 738's C is wider. Fat chance this will happen. I have to squeeze into the 738 C when it's easy peasy on A332.
QF 744 vs QF 332 C: seatguru is telling me the width is the same. Yet the 744 one is evidently wider when onboard.
OZ 333 vs JJ 77W C: exactly same seat with exactly same width, just on different planes, and yet you tell me there's a whooping 6" difference.
NH 763 vs NH 788: same as above.

Having been onto the ones that are really pushing 17" (ANA domestic 773 and 744D), QF A332's Y is just much wider to the fact that it will never be 17.2" narrow. They can even claim A330 with 3-3-3 in Y can have 18" width. LMAO.

Michael
 
redroo
Posts: 584
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:31 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
Whatsaptudo wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Show me your source.

Mine indicates QF's A330 is a full 1 inch wider than 789; 18.2 inch instead of 17 as you claimed: http://theqantassource.com/seatmaps/332 ... yavod.html

While for 787-9 it's the 17.2" as you said: http://theqantassource.com/seatmaps/789/42j28w166y.html

Michael


https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Qanta ... 0-300.php#

Unfortunately I never trust seatguru in even one instance, ever. Although never been onto QF's 789, I'll show you some examples from my experience (Qantas and other) where seatguru is just not right.

QF 738 vs QF 332 C: seatguru is telling me 738's C is wider. Fat chance this will happen. I have to squeeze into the 738 C when it's easy peasy on A332.
QF 744 vs QF 332 C: seatguru is telling me the width is the same. Yet the 744 one is evidently wider when onboard.
OZ 333 vs JJ 77W C: exactly same seat with exactly same width, just on different planes, and yet you tell me there's a whooping 6" difference.
NH 763 vs NH 788: same as above.

Having been onto the ones that are really pushing 17" (ANA domestic 773 and 744D), QF A332's Y is just much wider to the fact that it will never be 17.2" narrow. They can even claim A330 with 3-3-3 in Y can have 18" width. LMAO.

Michael


I can’t clmment on the QF787 as I’ve only been on the family day at the airport but I can comment on the a330 vs the 737. Flying back and forward from Perth for 4-5 hours the a330 is significantly more comfortable than the 737. I never feel constrained on the A330 - and I’ve my own row on the 737 multiple times.
 
HM7
Posts: 135
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:07 am

Any project sunrise updates? I.e. more details from boeing or airbus other than “a plane with extended range”
CRJ200, CRJ700, CRJ900, Q400, E175, E195, MD88, MD90, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A388, B712, B734, B738, B739, B752, B762, B763ER, B789, B744, B744ER
 
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csturdiv
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:33 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:15 am

Probably happens quite a bit, but QF2164 (VH-TQH) SYD-PQQ was whacked by lightning today and had to return to SYD. I work in Alexandria, just up the road from SYD and I could hear the thunder and rain through my bluetooth noise canceling headphones and my music. Sounded pretty rough for a while.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/plane-hit-b ... -to-sydney
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 4#1cd22c1f
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1974
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:48 am

Got an email this morning about a whole raft of codeshare approvals between QF and AF via SIN and HKG to CDG.

Also, looking at the bookings available, it is interesting to see the prioritisation. First is QF and BA via LHR, then QF and AF via SIN/HKG, then EK via DXB.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1830
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:09 am

redroo wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Whatsaptudo wrote:

Unfortunately I never trust seatguru in even one instance, ever. Although never been onto QF's 789, I'll show you some examples from my experience (Qantas and other) where seatguru is just not right.

QF 738 vs QF 332 C: seatguru is telling me 738's C is wider. Fat chance this will happen. I have to squeeze into the 738 C when it's easy peasy on A332.
QF 744 vs QF 332 C: seatguru is telling me the width is the same. Yet the 744 one is evidently wider when onboard.
OZ 333 vs JJ 77W C: exactly same seat with exactly same width, just on different planes, and yet you tell me there's a whooping 6" difference.
NH 763 vs NH 788: same as above.

Having been onto the ones that are really pushing 17" (ANA domestic 773 and 744D), QF A332's Y is just much wider to the fact that it will never be 17.2" narrow. They can even claim A330 with 3-3-3 in Y can have 18" width. LMAO.

Michael


I can’t clmment on the QF787 as I’ve only been on the family day at the airport but I can comment on the a330 vs the 737. Flying back and forward from Perth for 4-5 hours the a330 is significantly more comfortable than the 737. I never feel constrained on the A330 - and I’ve my own row on the 737 multiple times.

Indeed, I even feel the difference somehow on my BNE-MEL flight not too long ago. 737s indeed have a tight pitch.

Michael
 
Obzerva
Posts: 490
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:34 am

qf2220 wrote:
Got an email this morning about a whole raft of codeshare approvals between QF and AF via SIN and HKG to CDG.

Also, looking at the bookings available, it is interesting to see the prioritisation. First is QF and BA via LHR, then QF and AF via SIN/HKG, then EK via DXB.


It’s all about prioritising the most amount of the journey on QF operated flights, eg QF to LHR, then halfway there QF to SIN/HKG, then the scraps to EK
 
Pcoder
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:49 am

I did a few measurements of the 737 seats recently (I think the plane was James Strong -VH-XZP). The arm rests are about 4.5cm wide (1.7Inch), the gaps between the armrests are about 43cm (17inch) for the window and aisle and the middle seat was about 44.5cm (17.5 inch) wide.
 
getluv
Posts: 594
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:32 pm

qf2220 wrote:
Got an email this morning about a whole raft of codeshare approvals between QF and AF via SIN and HKG to CDG.

Also, looking at the bookings available, it is interesting to see the prioritisation. First is QF and BA via LHR, then QF and AF via SIN/HKG, then EK via DXB.


It depends on how you have the results filtered. If you have filtered to "Duration" then EK and QF/AF come out ahead. The default setting "Direct Flights" just prioritises QF flights, or basically, revenue for QF.

In saying that, QF need to tidy up how results are displayed on their website. It's annoying how they display codeshare and non codeshares. You can essentially have 5 options that are all the same flights. I know when you search SYD-LHR you can have over 100 results, which while great for choice could be displayed in a way that doesn't make 95% of the results look superfluous.
I'm that bad type.
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1974
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:51 pm

getluv wrote:
You can essentially have 5 options that are all the same flights.


All for the same price? Perhaps a consolidated line for all of these fares and a subsection for which flight number you want can be shown?

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