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flyingclrs727
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:37 pm

UA857 wrote:
What caused the gateway to wound down?


Probably the impending merger with CO, because CO had close to a fortress hub at EWR.
 
jetero
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:43 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
What caused the gateway to wound down?


Probably the impending merger with CO, because CO had close to a fortress hub at EWR.


It was long before that.
 
questions
Posts: 2212
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:18 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
Prost wrote:
AA seems to be in the Emperor’s chair. They probably have more slots than they need and a larger terminal than is necessary.

A solution that would require money and will would be including DL in the whole brouhaha. DL takes over T8 (it would cost them) and build it out, AA moves to T4 where they take over some of DL’s space, and UA gets gates in T4 and purchases slots from AA.

Of course, AA needs something besides money in return, and I can’t figure out what. So just a fantasy solution.


Fantasy I know... but I have always thought that a built out T8 would be a much better terminal for Delta’s JFK operations and T4 better for AA’s.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:33 pm

Got it!






·” The Port Authority and United Airlines have begun work on the first phase of what ultimately will be a $1.2 billion redevelopment of Terminals 5 and 6. The first phase will be completed in 2005 and will include 15 new gates, additional ticketing and baggage areas, and a new Customs and Immigration area for international passengers at Terminal 5 – while preserving the historic Saarinen Building, perhaps the best known of Kennedy Airport’s distinctive terminals. “

That was quite a search!
 
jumbojet
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:29 pm

VC10er wrote:
Ask ANY black car driver which is the fastest airport to get to from Manhattan on any given day or time and they will answer EWR 100% of the time. It's the first question I always ask my Uber driver or the black car company I use. In a panic-rush situation they always worry far more about JFK than even the Holland Tunnel (as awful as that can be sometimes)
I still wonder, does anyone have information on United's ad blitz for EWR and it's impact? It must be working because I see new pools of ads and new slogans launched almost monthly.
 
jumbojet
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:30 pm

VC10er wrote:
Ask ANY black car driver which is the fastest airport to get to from Manhattan on any given day or time and they will answer EWR 100% of the time. It's the first question I always ask my Uber driver or the black car company I use. In a panic-rush situation they always worry far more about JFK than even the Holland Tunnel (as awful as that can be sometimes)
I still wonder, does anyone have information on United's ad blitz for EWR and it's impact? It must be working because I see new pools of ads and new slogans launched almost monthly.


IT depends on where in Manhattan you are. And just because your near the Holland/Lincoln tunnel doesn't make EWR any faster than JFK. During rush hour, which is when a lot of business folks are leaving town, you can easily wait up to 45 minutes just to get to the approach to the tunnels that will take you to Jersey. If your on the east side of Manhattan, JFK is definitely closer and easier to get to, especially being that the toll plaza was eliminated on the inter-borough crossings. So, just as the Uber's you talk to, the ones I talk to hate going to EWR. Go figure.

As for UA's advertisements, I wonder what they were thinking when they placed the one that is visible to vehicular traffic on the West Side Highway N/B around 125th Street. I take the WSH home everyday and during rush hour, I stare at this one as I sit in bumper to bumper traffic, I wonder how in the world UA thinks its easier and quicker to get to JFK. But hey, to each their own.
 
TSA125
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Re: United ❤️ JFK...Now

Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:38 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Queue the rumors of UA buying out B6 for its JFK slots


P=0 that the Feds allow a merger of the #1 and #3 NYC carriers while they're both making money.



Is UA really the #1 carrier in NYC?

On what grounds? Profit? aircraft movements?
No not that TSA.
 
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STT757
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Re: United ❤️ JFK...Now

Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:47 pm

TSA125 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Queue the rumors of UA buying out B6 for its JFK slots


P=0 that the Feds allow a merger of the #1 and #3 NYC carriers while they're both making money.



Is UA really the #1 carrier in NYC?

On what grounds? Profit? aircraft movements?


Most passengers handled. For 2017 UA handled 31 million from EWR and LGA, DL handled 29 million from EWR, JFK, LGA.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 574
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:28 am

caljn wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
I just thought it odd that UA does not serve JFK, even with just one destination from there....



And yet...somehow they continue to thrive in the market.

True, true...they do have the NYC area well covered I guess.
 
dc10lover
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:14 am

I think it's all dreaming. UA won't be back at JFK.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
VC10er
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:02 am

jumbojet wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Ask ANY black car driver which is the fastest airport to get to from Manhattan on any given day or time and they will answer EWR 100% of the time. It's the first question I always ask my Uber driver or the black car company I use. In a panic-rush situation they always worry far more about JFK than even the Holland Tunnel (as awful as that can be sometimes)
I still wonder, does anyone have information on United's ad blitz for EWR and it's impact? It must be working because I see new pools of ads and new slogans launched almost monthly.


IT depends on where in Manhattan you are. And just because your near the Holland/Lincoln tunnel doesn't make EWR any faster than JFK. During rush hour, which is when a lot of business folks are leaving town, you can easily wait up to 45 minutes just to get to the approach to the tunnels that will take you to Jersey. If your on the east side of Manhattan, JFK is definitely closer and easier to get to, especially being that the toll plaza was eliminated on the inter-borough crossings. So, just as the Uber's you talk to, the ones I talk to hate going to EWR. Go figure.

As for UA's advertisements, I wonder what they were thinking when they placed the one that is visible to vehicular traffic on the West Side Highway N/B around 125th Street. I take the WSH home everyday and during rush hour, I stare at this one as I sit in bumper to bumper traffic, I wonder how in the world UA thinks its easier and quicker to get to JFK. But hey, to each their own.


I think of the millions of words and hundreds of posts on EWR v JFK v LGA is actually all splitting hairs. Given it was never planned to be this way 80/90 years ago, the fact that the NYC Metropolitan Area has 3 airports situated where they are is a remarkable stroke of luck. The triangle between the 3 is large and any part of the tri-state area can find the flight they want from whichever airport they want. When LGA is brand new, it may not be Changi, but certainly nice for the next generations to come.
The one thing that does stick in my craw is how lacking public transportation to EWR is.
“IF” United could get back to JFK, I just think they would need critical mass to make it work financially and Delta is just so strong right now, I presume AA, JetBlue too. Unless maybe UA creates something niche, Eg; “the” most incredible “must fly” transcontinental aircraft (and crews) to do EWR & JFK to SFO & LAX and that’s it and provide choice to the most elite fliers. Otherwise there is currently something for everyone.
Perhaps a flying Polaris Lounge! Lol
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2957
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:14 pm

VC10er wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Ask ANY black car driver which is the fastest airport to get to from Manhattan on any given day or time and they will answer EWR 100% of the time. It's the first question I always ask my Uber driver or the black car company I use. In a panic-rush situation they always worry far more about JFK than even the Holland Tunnel (as awful as that can be sometimes)
I still wonder, does anyone have information on United's ad blitz for EWR and it's impact? It must be working because I see new pools of ads and new slogans launched almost monthly.


IT depends on where in Manhattan you are. And just because your near the Holland/Lincoln tunnel doesn't make EWR any faster than JFK. During rush hour, which is when a lot of business folks are leaving town, you can easily wait up to 45 minutes just to get to the approach to the tunnels that will take you to Jersey. If your on the east side of Manhattan, JFK is definitely closer and easier to get to, especially being that the toll plaza was eliminated on the inter-borough crossings. So, just as the Uber's you talk to, the ones I talk to hate going to EWR. Go figure.

As for UA's advertisements, I wonder what they were thinking when they placed the one that is visible to vehicular traffic on the West Side Highway N/B around 125th Street. I take the WSH home everyday and during rush hour, I stare at this one as I sit in bumper to bumper traffic, I wonder how in the world UA thinks its easier and quicker to get to JFK. But hey, to each their own.


I think of the millions of words and hundreds of posts on EWR v JFK v LGA is actually all splitting hairs. Given it was never planned to be this way 80/90 years ago, the fact that the NYC Metropolitan Area has 3 airports situated where they are is a remarkable stroke of luck. The triangle between the 3 is large and any part of the tri-state area can find the flight they want from whichever airport they want. When LGA is brand new, it may not be Changi, but certainly nice for the next generations to come.
The one thing that does stick in my craw is how lacking public transportation to EWR is.
“IF” United could get back to JFK, I just think they would need critical mass to make it work financially and Delta is just so strong right now, I presume AA, JetBlue too. Unless maybe UA creates something niche, Eg; “the” most incredible “must fly” transcontinental aircraft (and crews) to do EWR & JFK to SFO & LAX and that’s it and provide choice to the most elite fliers. Otherwise there is currently something for everyone.
Perhaps a flying Polaris Lounge! Lol


There are really to many factors and variables involved to outright say getting to one airport, EWR VS. JFK, is faster than the other, from Manhattan. For starters, depending on where you are in Manhattan matters, traffic matters; where today it might be faster to get to EWR from 'point A' in Manhattan, tomorrow it might be a disaster from the same location. I can tell you this, there have been vast infrastructure improvements on the major highways that lead from NYC to JFK, such as the complete overhaul of the Van Wycke Expressway and the elimination of the toll booths on the Ed Koch bridge.

That said, there is no doubt United can fill up a few flights on JFK-LAX/SFO. As others have said, start with whatever slots are available and work from there. There will always be a demand for travel to/from these large coastal cities.
 
jumbojet
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:01 pm

I could easily see B6 retaliating against United if they try to move back into JFK. B6 MINT out of EWR would definitely be a success and would take a small bite out of UA's EWR clients. In fact, I would love to see B6 fly hourly out of EWR to the likes of LAX and SFO. Not sure if the slots are available on both ends but wow, that would be quite the success for B6, really corner the premium market in NYC to LAX/SFO. Passengers only have one premium choice out of EWR to the west coast, I bet there are plenty of folks who are itching for option 'B' out of Newark.
 
tphuang
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:09 pm

here is a thought. Maybe B6 can lease UA 2 gates at T5 along with 10 slots in exchange for leasing 2 gates at EWR + a couple of slots at LGA. I don't see UA accepting that, but that would allow UA back into JFK.

if AA worked so hard to get UA out of JFK. Why would they offer space for UA to come back?
 
jfk777
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:32 pm

questions wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Prost wrote:
AA seems to be in the Emperor’s chair. They probably have more slots than they need and a larger terminal than is necessary.

A solution that would require money and will would be including DL in the whole brouhaha. DL takes over T8 (it would cost them) and build it out, AA moves to T4 where they take over some of DL’s space, and UA gets gates in T4 and purchases slots from AA.

Of course, AA needs something besides money in return, and I can’t figure out what. So just a fantasy solution.


Fantasy I know... but I have always thought that a built out T8 would be a much better terminal for Delta’s JFK operations and T4 better for AA’s.



American Airlines and the OneWorld Alliance would be crazy to switch terminals with Delta and have to put up with all those international airlines at Terminal 4. Having the BA terminal next to AA T8 will one day prove an asset since joining the two would be a good thing. BA should build a new terminal building on the T7 site. AA has control of a huge asset at JFK for themselves and the alliance partners like Cathay and Qantas. the value of this is huge. JFK needs more terminal space as T1 and T4 are hardly enough pace for the demand on terminal space at JFK, the time has come to build a new building on the Pan AM World port site
 
questions
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:00 pm

jfk777 wrote:
questions wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Prost wrote:
AA seems to be in the Emperor’s chair. They probably have more slots than they need and a larger terminal than is necessary.

A solution that would require money and will would be including DL in the whole brouhaha. DL takes over T8 (it would cost them) and build it out, AA moves to T4 where they take over some of DL’s space, and UA gets gates in T4 and purchases slots from AA.

Of course, AA needs something besides money in return, and I can’t figure out what. So just a fantasy solution.


Fantasy I know... but I have always thought that a built out T8 would be a much better terminal for Delta’s JFK operations and T4 better for AA’s.



American Airlines and the OneWorld Alliance would be crazy to switch terminals with Delta and have to put up with all those international airlines at Terminal 4. Having the BA terminal next to AA T8 will one day prove an asset since joining the two would be a good thing. BA should build a new terminal building on the T7 site. AA has control of a huge asset at JFK for themselves and the alliance partners like Cathay and Qantas. the value of this is huge. JFK needs more terminal space as T1 and T4 are hardly enough pace for the demand on terminal space at JFK, the time has come to build a new building on the Pan AM World port site


Agree with you. That’s why I said “fantasy.” While DL’s T4 ops and passenger facilities are much better than the for T2/3 set up, I have never been a fan of the T4 design.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:51 pm

jumbojet wrote:
I could easily see B6 retaliating against United if they try to move back into JFK. B6 MINT out of EWR would definitely be a success and would take a small bite out of UA's EWR clients. In fact, I would love to see B6 fly hourly out of EWR to the likes of LAX and SFO. Not sure if the slots are available on both ends but wow, that would be quite the success for B6, really corner the premium market in NYC to LAX/SFO. Passengers only have one premium choice out of EWR to the west coast, I bet there are plenty of folks who are itching for option 'B' out of Newark.


B6 can bring Mint whenever they want to EWR-SFO/LAX. They aren’t going to dissuade UA from anything other than vigorous competition.
 
jumbojet
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:29 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
I could easily see B6 retaliating against United if they try to move back into JFK. B6 MINT out of EWR would definitely be a success and would take a small bite out of UA's EWR clients. In fact, I would love to see B6 fly hourly out of EWR to the likes of LAX and SFO. Not sure if the slots are available on both ends but wow, that would be quite the success for B6, really corner the premium market in NYC to LAX/SFO. Passengers only have one premium choice out of EWR to the west coast, I bet there are plenty of folks who are itching for option 'B' out of Newark.


B6 can bring Mint whenever they want to EWR-SFO/LAX. They aren’t going to dissuade UA from anything other than vigorous competition.


And competition is good for the consumer, not to mention MINT is supposedly a better product than UA's premium transcon service. JetBlue can hand United there lunch out of EWR to LAX/SFO. I don't know what they are waiting for.
 
Jo8338
Posts: 143
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:37 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/united-seeks-return-to-new-york-jfk-449086/
.



Sweet Irony for us JFK fans that called this bone-headed move 3 years ago.



Only way to get this done is make a deal with DL for some Chicago gates.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3856
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:40 pm

jumbojet wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
I could easily see B6 retaliating against United if they try to move back into JFK. B6 MINT out of EWR would definitely be a success and would take a small bite out of UA's EWR clients. In fact, I would love to see B6 fly hourly out of EWR to the likes of LAX and SFO. Not sure if the slots are available on both ends but wow, that would be quite the success for B6, really corner the premium market in NYC to LAX/SFO. Passengers only have one premium choice out of EWR to the west coast, I bet there are plenty of folks who are itching for option 'B' out of Newark.


B6 can bring Mint whenever they want to EWR-SFO/LAX. They aren’t going to dissuade UA from anything other than vigorous competition.


And competition is good for the consumer, not to mention MINT is supposedly a better product than UA's premium transcon service. JetBlue can hand United there lunch out of EWR to LAX/SFO. I don't know what they are waiting for.

Airframes and gate access. They are quite constrained at ewr.
 
questions
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:43 pm

Jo8338 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/united-seeks-return-to-new-york-jfk-449086/
.



Sweet Irony for us JFK fans that called this bone-headed move 3 years ago.



Only way to get this done is make a deal with DL for some Chicago gates.


Why does DL want ORD gates?
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:46 pm

jumbojet wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
I could easily see B6 retaliating against United if they try to move back into JFK. B6 MINT out of EWR would definitely be a success and would take a small bite out of UA's EWR clients. In fact, I would love to see B6 fly hourly out of EWR to the likes of LAX and SFO. Not sure if the slots are available on both ends but wow, that would be quite the success for B6, really corner the premium market in NYC to LAX/SFO. Passengers only have one premium choice out of EWR to the west coast, I bet there are plenty of folks who are itching for option 'B' out of Newark.


B6 can bring Mint whenever they want to EWR-SFO/LAX. They aren’t going to dissuade UA from anything other than vigorous competition.


And competition is good for the consumer, not to mention MINT is supposedly a better product than UA's premium transcon service. JetBlue can hand United there lunch out of EWR to LAX/SFO. I don't know what they are waiting for.


The NYC-LAX/SFO have loads of capacity and hourly EWR service would be a disaster for B6. I could see a few flights, but they’d be out of their minds (and gate space) to try hourly. There is a reason you see AS reducing capacity. Good theory, but not realistic.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1201
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:47 pm

Jo8338 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/united-seeks-return-to-new-york-jfk-449086/
.



Sweet Irony for us JFK fans that called this bone-headed move 3 years ago.



Only way to get this done is make a deal with DL for some Chicago gates.


UA won’t be giving up gates at ORD. DL will get their gates once expansion is done at ORD.
 
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jfklganyc
Topic Author
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:39 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

B6 can bring Mint whenever they want to EWR-SFO/LAX. They aren’t going to dissuade UA from anything other than vigorous competition.


And competition is good for the consumer, not to mention MINT is supposedly a better product than UA's premium transcon service. JetBlue can hand United there lunch out of EWR to LAX/SFO. I don't know what they are waiting for.


The NYC-LAX/SFO have loads of capacity and hourly EWR service would be a disaster for B6. I could see a few flights, but they’d be out of their minds (and gate space) to try hourly. There is a reason you see AS reducing capacity. Good theory, but not realistic.



They would do fine. The issue is 4 gates near capacity at the moment. Stay tuned...
 
codc10
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:47 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

And competition is good for the consumer, not to mention MINT is supposedly a better product than UA's premium transcon service. JetBlue can hand United there lunch out of EWR to LAX/SFO. I don't know what they are waiting for.


The NYC-LAX/SFO have loads of capacity and hourly EWR service would be a disaster for B6. I could see a few flights, but they’d be out of their minds (and gate space) to try hourly. There is a reason you see AS reducing capacity. Good theory, but not realistic.



They would do fine. The issue is 4 gates near capacity at the moment. Stay tuned...


It's really only 3 gates for JetBlue, since they swap with AC in the afternoon on gate 17 to accommodate the YVR 787, and their space is fairly well-committed.

I think any meaningful expansion for JetBlue at EWR will come after the new Terminal 1 opens, contingent on B6 gaining access to an additional gate or two.
 
SFOtoORD
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:40 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

And competition is good for the consumer, not to mention MINT is supposedly a better product than UA's premium transcon service. JetBlue can hand United there lunch out of EWR to LAX/SFO. I don't know what they are waiting for.


The NYC-LAX/SFO have loads of capacity and hourly EWR service would be a disaster for B6. I could see a few flights, but they’d be out of their minds (and gate space) to try hourly. There is a reason you see AS reducing capacity. Good theory, but not realistic.


They would do fine. The issue is 4 gates near capacity at the moment. Stay tuned...


The poster I was responding to suggested hourly EWR-LAX/SFO service for B6. They would not do fine. I’m sure they’ll find gates and add service, but it’s not going to be a couple flights a day tops.
 
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jfklganyc
Topic Author
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:54 pm

codc10 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

The NYC-LAX/SFO have loads of capacity and hourly EWR service would be a disaster for B6. I could see a few flights, but they’d be out of their minds (and gate space) to try hourly. There is a reason you see AS reducing capacity. Good theory, but not realistic.



They would do fine. The issue is 4 gates near capacity at the moment. Stay tuned...


It's really only 3 gates for JetBlue, since they swap with AC in the afternoon on gate 17 to accommodate the YVR 787, and their space is fairly well-committed.

I think any meaningful expansion for JetBlue at EWR will come after the new Terminal 1 opens, contingent on B6 gaining access to an additional gate or two.


It really is 4 gates. They split 1 gate and JB ops run from 6am-last flight which is usually delayed past 10. That AC 787 is a blip in a long day
 
Jo8338
Posts: 143
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:16 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/united-seeks-return-to-new-york-jfk-449086/


Sweet Irony for us JFK fans that called this bone-headed move 3 years ago.



Only way to get this done is make a deal with DL for some Chicago gates.


UA won’t be giving up gates at ORD. DL will get their gates once expansion is done at ORD.



Which in Chicago will take 10-12 years. DL wants to expand at ORD. They want to serve LAX and FLL from ORD.
 
Jo8338
Posts: 143
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:18 pm

questions wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/united-seeks-return-to-new-york-jfk-449086/


Sweet Irony for us JFK fans that called this bone-headed move 3 years ago.



Only way to get this done is make a deal with DL for some Chicago gates.


Why does DL want ORD gates?



DL has stated their interest in expanding at O'Hare. The likes of LAX, SEA, MIA / FLL.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:22 pm

Jo8338 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:


Only way to get this done is make a deal with DL for some Chicago gates.


UA won’t be giving up gates at ORD. DL will get their gates once expansion is done at ORD.



Which in Chicago will take 10-12 years. DL wants to expand at ORD. They want to serve LAX and FLL from ORD.


They won’t be getting gates at ORD from UA.
 
tphuang
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Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:28 pm

Jo8338 wrote:
questions wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:


Only way to get this done is make a deal with DL for some Chicago gates.


Why does DL want ORD gates?



DL has stated their interest in expanding at O'Hare. The likes of LAX, SEA, MIA / FLL.

FLL part is quite laughable.
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:38 pm

Jo8338 wrote:
questions wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:


Only way to get this done is make a deal with DL for some Chicago gates.


Why does DL want ORD gates?



DL has stated their interest in expanding at O'Hare. The likes of LAX, SEA, MIA / FLL.


They’re moving to T5 and have already negotiated for more gates. Keep up, man ...
 
codc10
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:39 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
codc10 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


They would do fine. The issue is 4 gates near capacity at the moment. Stay tuned...


It's really only 3 gates for JetBlue, since they swap with AC in the afternoon on gate 17 to accommodate the YVR 787, and their space is fairly well-committed.

I think any meaningful expansion for JetBlue at EWR will come after the new Terminal 1 opens, contingent on B6 gaining access to an additional gate or two.


It really is 4 gates. They split 1 gate and JB ops run from 6am-last flight which is usually delayed past 10. That AC 787 is a blip in a long day


Was a 2nd bridge installed at 16? I haven't been in A-1 in a while. B6 subleases 13/16/17 from UA and has preferential use of 18 (PA common use gate) but I don't think there is a bridge at 13, maybe just a holdroom for split ops with AC? Not certain. Some B6 ops are out of 12 which is an AC gate, but usually only while the 787 is at 17.
 
questions
Posts: 2212
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:01 am

tphuang wrote:
FLL part is quite laughable.


Why is ORD-FLL laughable? Doesn’t DL have a large base of FF’s in So FL?
 
UA857
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:10 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Got it!






·” The Port Authority and United Airlines have begun work on the first phase of what ultimately will be a $1.2 billion redevelopment of Terminals 5 and 6. The first phase will be completed in 2005 and will include 15 new gates, additional ticketing and baggage areas, and a new Customs and Immigration area for international passengers at Terminal 5 – while preserving the historic Saarinen Building, perhaps the best known of Kennedy Airport’s distinctive terminals. “

That was quite a search!

Was UA planning to have a hub at JFK?
 
User avatar
precure787
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:44 pm

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:45 am

WkndWanderer wrote:
precure787 wrote:
not that much transatlantic activity in EWR.


That is very incorrect. United flies transatlantic from EWR to: AMS, TXL, BRU, DUB, EDI, FRA, GNV, LIS, LHR, MAD, MAN, MXP, MUC, CDG, FCO, ZRH, TLV, ATH, GLA, HAM, KEF, SHN, VCE, and that doesn't even count other airline service.


*facepalm* You're only talking about United. While United flies much transatlantic routes from EWR as you stated, JFK sees more European airlines than EWR does. AA and DL has transatlantic routes from JFK, unlike UA.
Edward Zen/Precure 787
 
WkndWanderer
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:05 am

precure787 wrote:
WkndWanderer wrote:
precure787 wrote:
not that much transatlantic activity in EWR.


That is very incorrect. United flies transatlantic from EWR to: AMS, TXL, BRU, DUB, EDI, FRA, GNV, LIS, LHR, MAD, MAN, MXP, MUC, CDG, FCO, ZRH, TLV, ATH, GLA, HAM, KEF, SHN, VCE, and that doesn't even count other airline service.


*facepalm* You're only talking about United. While United flies much transatlantic routes from EWR as you stated, JFK sees more European airlines than EWR does. AA and DL has transatlantic routes from JFK, unlike UA.


I was replying to your statement (as others did) that there is "Not that much transatlantic activity in EWR," which was demonstrably untrue...United is an airline that flies planes across the ocean from EWR, their flights count as transatlantic activity.
 
MaRoFu
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:39 pm

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:36 pm

precure787 wrote:
WkndWanderer wrote:
precure787 wrote:
not that much transatlantic activity in EWR.


That is very incorrect. United flies transatlantic from EWR to: AMS, TXL, BRU, DUB, EDI, FRA, GNV, LIS, LHR, MAD, MAN, MXP, MUC, CDG, FCO, ZRH, TLV, ATH, GLA, HAM, KEF, SHN, VCE, and that doesn't even count other airline service.


*facepalm* You're only talking about United. While United flies much transatlantic routes from EWR as you stated, JFK sees more European airlines than EWR does. AA and DL has transatlantic routes from JFK, unlike UA.

Even if you exclude UA, there's still a very sizeable transatlantic operation by plenty of foreign airlines, and TK may soon join the mix.
Airports I have been to:
DFW, EWR, IAH, JFK, LAS, LGA, MCO, MIA, NRT, ORD, PHL, PHX, SEA, SLC, YTZ, YYZ
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4256
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United ❤️ JFK...Now

Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:51 pm

jplatts wrote:
I agree that some slots at JFK should be given to UA, and I agree that UA should be accommodated at JFK. However, AA and DL both have hubs at LAX and JFK, and there are also some AA and DL customers in LA and NYC who would not switch over to UA if UA brought back LAX-JFK nonstop service.

UA is losing some customers to AA in the San Francisco Bay Area by not serving JFK and CLT nonstop from SFO, and UA does need to bring back SFO-JFK nonstop service and add SFO-CLT nonstop service in order to better compete against AA in the San Francisco Bay Area. JFK is also currently the only DL hub or focus city airport that UA does not serve nonstop from SFO.

CLT?? UA hasn't flown a non-stop to CLT since the B727 was around. It was always a connecting flight via ORD and DEN. Because AA is there UA needs to be there? And UA isn't flying there?? Are you Sure??
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4256
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:04 pm

VC10er wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Ask ANY black car driver which is the fastest airport to get to from Manhattan on any given day or time and they will answer EWR 100% of the time. It's the first question I always ask my Uber driver or the black car company I use. In a panic-rush situation they always worry far more about JFK than even the Holland Tunnel (as awful as that can be sometimes)
I still wonder, does anyone have information on United's ad blitz for EWR and it's impact? It must be working because I see new pools of ads and new slogans launched almost monthly.


IT depends on where in Manhattan you are. And just because your near the Holland/Lincoln tunnel doesn't make EWR any faster than JFK. During rush hour, which is when a lot of business folks are leaving town, you can easily wait up to 45 minutes just to get to the approach to the tunnels that will take you to Jersey. If your on the east side of Manhattan, JFK is definitely closer and easier to get to, especially being that the toll plaza was eliminated on the inter-borough crossings. So, just as the Uber's you talk to, the ones I talk to hate going to EWR. Go figure.

As for UA's advertisements, I wonder what they were thinking when they placed the one that is visible to vehicular traffic on the West Side Highway N/B around 125th Street. I take the WSH home everyday and during rush hour, I stare at this one as I sit in bumper to bumper traffic, I wonder how in the world UA thinks its easier and quicker to get to JFK. But hey, to each their own.


I think of the millions of words and hundreds of posts on EWR v JFK v LGA is actually all splitting hairs. Given it was never planned to be this way 80/90 years ago, the fact that the NYC Metropolitan Area has 3 airports situated where they are is a remarkable stroke of luck. The triangle between the 3 is large and any part of the tri-state area can find the flight they want from whichever airport they want. When LGA is brand new, it may not be Changi, but certainly nice for the next generations to come.
The one thing that does stick in my craw is how lacking public transportation to EWR is.
“IF” United could get back to JFK, I just think they would need critical mass to make it work financially and Delta is just so strong right now, I presume AA, JetBlue too. Unless maybe UA creates something niche, Eg; “the” most incredible “must fly” transcontinental aircraft (and crews) to do EWR & JFK to SFO & LAX and that’s it and provide choice to the most elite fliers. Otherwise there is currently something for everyone.
Perhaps a flying Polaris Lounge! Lol

Delta Nor American could stop United were they to return to JFK. Whether it was a mistake to Leave? Is up for debate. But! Are they flying like Hell out of EWR?
You betcha! Could they make money in JFK? You betcha!
 
incitatus
Posts: 3336
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:06 pm

The idea that JFK has much strategic value for UA - with EWR down the road and some service at LGA - is just fantasy. Before UA left JFK, its network there had been anemic for many years. Maybe something can be said about providing feed to UA's partners at JFK to and from UA's strongest markets. But that is really about it, and as a financial decision, debatable.

I see UA expressing interest in returning to JFK as evidence that upper management of large corporations sometimes acts on gut feel instead of making decisions that are data-driven.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4256
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United ❤️ JFK...Now

Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:09 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
I agree that some slots at JFK should be given to UA, and I agree that UA should be accommodated at JFK. However, AA and DL both have hubs at LAX and JFK, and there are also some AA and DL customers in LA and NYC who would not switch over to UA if UA brought back LAX-JFK nonstop service.

UA is losing some customers to AA in the San Francisco Bay Area by not serving JFK and CLT nonstop from SFO, and UA does need to bring back SFO-JFK nonstop service and add SFO-CLT nonstop service in order to better compete against AA in the San Francisco Bay Area. JFK is also currently the only DL hub or focus city airport that UA does not serve nonstop from SFO.

CLT?? UA hasn't flown a non-stop to CLT since the B727 was around. It was always a connecting flight via ORD and DEN. Because AA is there UA needs to be there? And UA isn't flying there?? Are you Sure??

I just looked at the schedule. UA flies DEN,ORD, IAD, and IAH to CLT. I don't remember EVER flying LAX or SFO non- stop to CLT in my 35 years at UA.
Could it have happened and made money? Who Knows? Are they making money there Now? Appears so. I wouldn't fool with what works..
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2957
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:58 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
[Lol

Delta Nor American could stop United were they to return to JFK. Whether it was a mistake to Leave? Is up for debate. But! Are they flying like Hell out of EWR?
You betcha! Could they make money in JFK? You betcha![/quote]

Prove it. Lets see you state facts that they will make money.
 
727200
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:04 pm

IIRC, there was a single trip SFO-CLT back in the 80's, I want to say.
 
cs03
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:56 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:20 pm

Yes, in 1985 Piedmont had 72S service once daily on CLT/SFO.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2523
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:40 pm

jumbojet wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
[Lol

Delta Nor American could stop United were they to return to JFK. Whether it was a mistake to Leave? Is up for debate. But! Are they flying like Hell out of EWR?
You betcha! Could they make money in JFK? You betcha!


Prove it. Lets see you state facts that they will make money.[/quote]

How about reading strfyr51's post again. The key would written was "could" not "would". That little letter 'c' means strfyr51 has nothing to prove...and yes UA COULD make money if they were ever to return to JFK - there's no guarantee written into that statement.
 
LAXtoATL
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:55 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:20 am

incitatus wrote:

I see UA expressing interest in returning to JFK as evidence that upper management of large corporations sometimes acts on gut feel instead of making decisions that are data-driven.


Well, the decision to leave JFK was both a gut feeling and data-driven. They were losing money at JFK, however the transcon routes have strategic value to the network. Their gut feeling was they could maintain the O&D business traffic while reducing their operating costs, they apparently were wrong. If they go back to JFK that operation will still lose money (probably more as it will likely costs them even more to get back back in) but it has a broader impact on their overall network (i.e. if they don’t offer JFK-SFO that same passenger will look elsewhere when they need to fly SFO-SYD)
 
coairman
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:31 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:41 am

727200 wrote:
Those who think that the purchase of B6 would not pass DOJ and other regulatory statutes are clearly mistaken. As an example: UA could team with different airlines to purchase and disperse the assets between them. Not to mention, for those who are not aware, UA would NOT just buy an airline without getting agreement from different Government agencies before. Happens all the time that it is run by them so that there are, as they say in business, "No surprises."
As they say,, "Never say never."


I agree. UA could give up huge EWR market share, such as make a deal with WN in order to appease the DOJ on puchasing B6. This way of allowing a low fare airline like WN build a mini hub in EWR would appease regulators in terms of keeping fares competitive in the NYC market. UA gets JFK and finally a hub in MCO and FLL.
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3856
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:58 am

coairman wrote:
727200 wrote:
Those who think that the purchase of B6 would not pass DOJ and other regulatory statutes are clearly mistaken. As an example: UA could team with different airlines to purchase and disperse the assets between them. Not to mention, for those who are not aware, UA would NOT just buy an airline without getting agreement from different Government agencies before. Happens all the time that it is run by them so that there are, as they say in business, "No surprises."
As they say,, "Never say never."


I agree. UA could give up huge EWR market share, such as make a deal with WN in order to appease the DOJ on puchasing B6. This way of allowing a low fare airline like WN build a mini hub in EWR would appease regulators in terms of keeping fares competitive in the NYC market. UA gets JFK and finally a hub in MCO and FLL.


Given how poorly WN has done with the gate access it has so far at EWR and UA's overwhelming dominance there, I don't see why WN would take that offer. WN at this point wants more LGA slots. And I see WN just as interested in bidding to get B6 given that B6 would patch up all the weaknesses in WN's network.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

Re: United seeks to return to JFK

Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:56 pm

CO has always had this complex with JFK.... Looking over their shoulder saying "We should be there too."
CO started and stopped service from nonstop IAH I believe 3 times, definitely 2 times, varying between 2x up to 4x a day.

They also had CLE service in addition to LGA and EWR.

It should be interesting whether UA takes the plunge at JFK again in the future.

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