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jonair8 wrote:If one thinks that this is an appalling treatment of bags, then one should not check their bag. In addition, do not store valuables in that bag. Take it with you into the cabin. For the bags that actually get checked into the bin of the aircraft by baggage handlers, they are treated way worse than how the gate agent treated the bags in this video. They do not call rampers bag throwers for nothing. Nothing special here.
, That combined with in the video what can clearly be heard as last call "Boarding call, door will be closing in 2 minutes" it could have been a case of pax having been asked 10 times between check in and boarding about carry on's, but during the boarding process of course there were too many bags, no more room, leading to either having to delay the flight OR be slightly less gentle but faster in getting the excess bags to where they should have been in the first place. Just my 2 cents. 
SFOtoORD wrote:Waterbomber wrote:This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.
That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.
Waterbomber wrote:This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.
JoePatroni wrote:stratclub wrote:DarthLobster wrote:
If they're not smart enough to figure that out, then handling baggage is definitely above their intellectual pay grade.
There is no IQ requirement for baggage handlers.
Totally ignorant and extremely offensive post to the many baggage handlers who are members of this website and who work very hard, every single day to make sure your flights are loaded properly, efficiently and safely.
You should be ashamed of yourself and your hurtful words.
stratclub wrote:SFOtoORD wrote:Waterbomber wrote:This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.
That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.
Kind of a slippery slope, but a good lawyer might be able to make a case that the video recording event took place on private property without the permission of the subject.y
stratclub wrote:SFOtoORD wrote:Waterbomber wrote:This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.
That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.
Kind of a slippery slope, but a good lawyer might be able to make a case that the video recording event took place on private property without the permission of the subject. Would the subject have the means or even the desire to pursue legal proceedings? probably not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property
Tugger wrote:...But if this was the guy bagging your groceries what would you say to them (or puts the tomatoes and eggs on the bottom and tosses the canned items on top)? Or the person washing you car and wiping down the inside, jumps across to get to the other side faster (maybe bangs their shoes into your headliner), or the mover taking your lamp outside and throwing it into the truck? Or an Amazon driver is careless with your package, tossing it onto your doorstep (and you see it)?...
Tugg
INFINITI329 wrote:Are some of you that naive to believe bags are treated with the same care as an infant? News flash they are not. Pick your favorite narrow-body airplane. There is 95% chance that same airplane is probably bulk loaded. How do you think those bags go from the door to the bulkhead? If its a longer plane sliding won't cut it. A little more force is needed to put behind the bag to get it where it needs to go. Bags are not thrown/slid to intentionally damage them. But it is a necessary evil in airline industry. Yes, there certain tools reduce this, however, most airlines haven't not and will not invest in these.stratclub wrote:SFOtoORD wrote:
That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.
Kind of a slippery slope, but a good lawyer might be able to make a case that the video recording event took place on private property without the permission of the subject. Would the subject have the means or even the desire to pursue legal proceedings? probably not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property
No good lawyer would waste time which such an angle. Nearly all commercial airports in the United States are run by some sort of government entity, making it public property in with controlled access. There is no expectation of privacy in public. Period. In this case, the State of Hawaii owns the commercial side of HNL.
addi375 wrote:perfect example of you get what you pay for. In order to make money of these CHEAP fares we all demand, the airlines have to use out sourced workers at lower pay rates, In order to make money on these CHEAP fares the planes have to be in the air for longer periods. so that means less ground time which means everything is rushed to get them back in the air Shut it and put your money where you mouth is and start paying what it really costs to travel and then, maybe then you can complain because the airlines arent giving you what exactly you pay for. If you go to walmart you get walmart leve service, and when you go to Bloomies you pay more so you get better service....same thing apply here.
vhtje wrote:Baggage handlers have one objective only: to get bags loaded and unloaded quickly and efficiently so that the aircraft departs on time and baggage arrives in the baggage hall without the passengers waiting an undue amount of time. That speed objective precludes any chance of using delicacy when handling passengers' luggage. Of course, baggage handlers take due care and do not seek to deliberately damage bags, but speed is king.
KentB27 wrote:I think a lot of people would be in for a huge shock if they actually saw what the workers on the ramp do with their bags. It's not a delicate process. I don't expect them to be gentle. I don't really have a problem with what she is doing.
IPFreely wrote:People should learn there are cameras everywhere these days....
http://www.thisisinsider.com/hawaiian-airlines-baggage-handler-throwing-luggage-plane-footage-2018-5
Adispatcher wrote:IPFreely wrote:People should learn there are cameras everywhere these days....
http://www.thisisinsider.com/hawaiian-airlines-baggage-handler-throwing-luggage-plane-footage-2018-5
I threw bags like this every day. Imagine how your belongings are treated in the bins.
Do you want careful and late or on-time and thrown?
SFOtoORD wrote:Waterbomber wrote:This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.
That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.
bgm wrote:Careful and on-time, please. It can be done.
Does containerized luggage get treated less roughly than bulk loaded luggage?
N353SK wrote:Good, Fast, Cheap ... you get two.
If you want Cheap and Fast, it won't be Good.
If you want Good and Cheap, it won't be Fast
If you want Fast and Good, it won't be Cheap
Guess which two the Airlines have picked?
I think the main problem here is the design of the work environment. The ramper has to turn 180 degrees to drop the bag, which is among the worst ergonomic moves you can do. The slide construction invites her to drop them. Putting them on the top and then having to manually push them in order for them to slide down will require more lifting and more time, so it just isn’t a very good design. The simplest improvement I can think of is to have a conveyor belt-style transport solutopn made of rollers (apparently called ”Gravity Roller Conveyor”) from the door to the slide so the ramper only puts the bag onto that from a convenient height (which probably means the conveyor should be placed 30 cm above the floor, allowing rampers to place bags there without lifting them, allowing them to just tip over onto the rollers). That ”roller belt” could then drop the bags from an acceptable height onto the slide. You could even cover the top of the slide with a net to make it impossible (or at least harder) to drop a bag at the wrong point. Humans are lazy, no matter what we like to think. From time to time we get bored at doing our jobs (especially if they are repetitive and heavy) and resort to short cuts. If companies provide poor solutions for getting the job done, a poor result is likely to be the outcome.737MAX7 wrote:Oh if you all saw how a bag gets from the bulkhead of a 737-800 to the door
jayunited wrote:LAXLHR wrote:She needs to be fired!! Period!
No she doesn't, she is doing her job and that is the reason for the slide being on the side on the jet bridge. Baggage handlers are under pressure to make sure they don't cause a flight to take a delay. The moment you start getting jet bridge bags most times you are up against the clock and baggage handlers or their immediate supervisor do have to answer for a delay if they are the cause of that delay. The slides that you see on the side of jet bridges was installed by the airlines to keep from having the baggage handler walk up and down the stairs with bags but also to move large volumes of bags down to ramp level. When I look at this video as a former baggage handler who did the job for 18 years I don't see her doing anything wrong I see her doing her job trying to get an aircraft loaded and out on time.
Do people really thing their bags are gently handled by any airlines ramp personnel I can tell you they are not. Think about it aircraft like the 757-200/300, A320/21, 737-800/900, these narrow body aircraft have large baggage compartments some of these aircraft have no magic carpet, or nesting system and if they do have there are times when the system doesn't work do you really thing baggage handlers are walking each piece of luggage from the doorway to the bulk head? No that doesn't happen for the larger narrow bodies you may (may) have 2 people in the cargo pit however the person at the doorway who gabs the bag off the belt loader still has to throw your bag all the way to the person who is 3/4 of the way down the pit and lets not even talk about baggage sorters. These systems at large hubs are moving around 50-70 MPH and when your bag arrives at it intended pier or luggage belt an electronically controlled pusher snaps your bag out of the sorter at lightening speed.
If you think what she did is bad you need to take a tour of a bag room and check out the baggage sorter and see just how fast these machines sort bags and the force these machines use to knock your bag out of the sorter system. Sorters at major hubs have to sort thousands of bags per hour and these machines don't play nice with your bag the reality is the flying public has no idea what goes on behind the scenes once their bag is placed on the belt at the check-in counter.
LTU330 wrote:jayunited wrote:LAXLHR wrote:She needs to be fired!! Period!
No she doesn't, she is doing her job and that is the reason for the slide being on the side on the jet bridge. Baggage handlers are under pressure to make sure they don't cause a flight to take a delay. The moment you start getting jet bridge bags most times you are up against the clock and baggage handlers or their immediate supervisor do have to answer for a delay if they are the cause of that delay. The slides that you see on the side of jet bridges was installed by the airlines to keep from having the baggage handler walk up and down the stairs with bags but also to move large volumes of bags down to ramp level. When I look at this video as a former baggage handler who did the job for 18 years I don't see her doing anything wrong I see her doing her job trying to get an aircraft loaded and out on time.
Do people really thing their bags are gently handled by any airlines ramp personnel I can tell you they are not. Think about it aircraft like the 757-200/300, A320/21, 737-800/900, these narrow body aircraft have large baggage compartments some of these aircraft have no magic carpet, or nesting system and if they do have there are times when the system doesn't work do you really thing baggage handlers are walking each piece of luggage from the doorway to the bulk head? No that doesn't happen for the larger narrow bodies you may (may) have 2 people in the cargo pit however the person at the doorway who gabs the bag off the belt loader still has to throw your bag all the way to the person who is 3/4 of the way down the pit and lets not even talk about baggage sorters. These systems at large hubs are moving around 50-70 MPH and when your bag arrives at it intended pier or luggage belt an electronically controlled pusher snaps your bag out of the sorter at lightening speed.
If you think what she did is bad you need to take a tour of a bag room and check out the baggage sorter and see just how fast these machines sort bags and the force these machines use to knock your bag out of the sorter system. Sorters at major hubs have to sort thousands of bags per hour and these machines don't play nice with your bag the reality is the flying public has no idea what goes on behind the scenes once their bag is placed on the belt at the check-in counter.
Without wanting to sound disrespectful to your comment, she looks anything but "under pressure". What she looks is completely dis-interested in her job, and completely dis-interested in doing her best to minimize any damage to CUSTOMERS bags. Like others have said, you should not expect this just because of minimum wage. Over here in Germany I have a friend who works for Airport Security on minimum wage. Is it OK for them to ignore what goes through the scanner for that reason, or should they be as professional as possible ? The other point is, if they don't like the minimum wage job, find another job or try to better yourself. Don't take it out on CUSTOMERS items.
N353SK wrote:bgm wrote:Careful and on-time, please. It can be done.
Does containerized luggage get treated less roughly than bulk loaded luggage?
Good, Fast, Cheap ... you get two.
If you want Cheap and Fast, it won't be Good.
If you want Good and Cheap, it won't be Fast
If you want Fast and Good, it won't be Cheap
Guess which two the Airlines have picked?
lightsaber wrote:If my previous post didn't make it obvious, this amuses me more than worries me.
I grew up on rough handling baggage commercials.SFOtoORD wrote:Waterbomber wrote:This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.
That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.
I was raised to behave as if someone was video taping you.
Now that is the reality.
If you are in a public place (airport) you can be filmed. I have worked projects where dozens and dozens of people filmed me while I was working because they were on a tour and I was visible.
Everyone needs to accept everyone has a camera today.
Just as I accept my luggage will be tossed. I will not ship my laptop. There is a reason all LI-ion batteries must go in a carryon.
Why I use ziplocks around all the sunscreen, toothpaste, or other liquid.
Lightsaber
stratclub wrote:INFINITI329 wrote:Are some of you that naive to believe bags are treated with the same care as an infant? News flash they are not. Pick your favorite narrow-body airplane. There is 95% chance that same airplane is probably bulk loaded. How do you think those bags go from the door to the bulkhead? If its a longer plane sliding won't cut it. A little more force is needed to put behind the bag to get it where it needs to go. Bags are not thrown/slid to intentionally damage them. But it is a necessary evil in airline industry. Yes, there certain tools reduce this, however, most airlines haven't not and will not invest in these.stratclub wrote:Kind of a slippery slope, but a good lawyer might be able to make a case that the video recording event took place on private property without the permission of the subject. Would the subject have the means or even the desire to pursue legal proceedings? probably not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property
No good lawyer would waste time which such an angle. Nearly all commercial airports in the United States are run by some sort of government entity, making it public property in with controlled access. There is no expectation of privacy in public. Period. In this case, the State of Hawaii owns the commercial side of HNL.
If there is an expectation of being paid, a lawyer would be all over it. The gate is leased to HNL, which is a private entity and is responsible for operation IAW it's AOC and HNL company SOP. So, publicly owned and privately operated. Not the same as a public road or public park which are publicly owned and government operated.
Waterbomber wrote:jetwet1 wrote:Waterbomber wrote:This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.
You do understand that to have an invasion of privacy there has to be an expectation of privacy ? Standing outside of an airbridge in front of a terminal window pretty much qualifies as well as a non private as you can get.
It is generally a breach of privacy to post a video about someone without their consent on social media or in the public arena in general, if the person is recognisable from it.
That's why professional outlets scramble the faces to make the person unrecognisable.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_rights
FredrikHAD wrote:Who carries a full-size laptop? Well not me, I carry two
Did anyone think about how those bags landed when reacing the bottom of the slide at that speed?
/Fredrik
IPFreely wrote:I don't know if you watched the video. But if you did, you wouldn't have "fast" in your list.
dazwalsh wrote:737MAX7 wrote:Oh if you all saw how a bag gets from the bulkhead of a 737-800 to the door
Surely anything other than sliding them along the floor is just a waste of energy?
Thats my point with the video in question, she could drop them at the top, not use extra energy propelling them 10 feet through the air first, its like she is going out of her way to damage the bags.
While I agree she was rough on the bags this is nothing compared to what they go through from check in, tsa screening, dropping onto the bag belt in the bag room, getting crushed on the bottom of the bag cart, thrown to the bulkhead while loading, crushed in the plane etc. 747-600X wrote:This is normal. Almost every ramper and definitely every airline I've ever seen treat bags this way. And honestly, this is gentle compared to what goes on down in the baggage handling rooms.
This is normal.
This is normal.
This is normal.
Virtual737 wrote:747-600X wrote:This is normal. Almost every ramper and definitely every airline I've ever seen treat bags this way. And honestly, this is gentle compared to what goes on down in the baggage handling rooms.
This is normal.
This is normal.
This is normal.
But it isn't right.
But it isn't right.
But it isn't right.
Does me writing it many times make it less right?
In pretty much every walk of life, if you mistreat someones belongings and they get damaged, you're liable for that damage. I hope hundreds, nay thousands more videos like this are published so that airlines are finally forced to do the right thing without people continually saying "you paid a low price, expect your bags to be treated like shit and get damaged".
If fares rise, no problem. If profits take a little hit, so what, but add $5 "handle my bags nicely" tax on a fare and I guarantee that the bags will still be treated like shit, because the handlers think it's normal and think it's OK. All the excuses here are just that, excuses.
Have just a little pride in your job and do the RIGHT thing, not the NORMAL thing.
jayunited wrote:LTU330 wrote:jayunited wrote:
No she doesn't, she is doing her job and that is the reason for the slide being on the side on the jet bridge. Baggage handlers are under pressure to make sure they don't cause a flight to take a delay. The moment you start getting jet bridge bags most times you are up against the clock and baggage handlers or their immediate supervisor do have to answer for a delay if they are the cause of that delay. The slides that you see on the side of jet bridges was installed by the airlines to keep from having the baggage handler walk up and down the stairs with bags but also to move large volumes of bags down to ramp level. When I look at this video as a former baggage handler who did the job for 18 years I don't see her doing anything wrong I see her doing her job trying to get an aircraft loaded and out on time.
Do people really thing their bags are gently handled by any airlines ramp personnel I can tell you they are not. Think about it aircraft like the 757-200/300, A320/21, 737-800/900, these narrow body aircraft have large baggage compartments some of these aircraft have no magic carpet, or nesting system and if they do have there are times when the system doesn't work do you really thing baggage handlers are walking each piece of luggage from the doorway to the bulk head? No that doesn't happen for the larger narrow bodies you may (may) have 2 people in the cargo pit however the person at the doorway who gabs the bag off the belt loader still has to throw your bag all the way to the person who is 3/4 of the way down the pit and lets not even talk about baggage sorters. These systems at large hubs are moving around 50-70 MPH and when your bag arrives at it intended pier or luggage belt an electronically controlled pusher snaps your bag out of the sorter at lightening speed.
If you think what she did is bad you need to take a tour of a bag room and check out the baggage sorter and see just how fast these machines sort bags and the force these machines use to knock your bag out of the sorter system. Sorters at major hubs have to sort thousands of bags per hour and these machines don't play nice with your bag the reality is the flying public has no idea what goes on behind the scenes once their bag is placed on the belt at the check-in counter.
Without wanting to sound disrespectful to your comment, she looks anything but "under pressure". What she looks is completely dis-interested in her job, and completely dis-interested in doing her best to minimize any damage to CUSTOMERS bags. Like others have said, you should not expect this just because of minimum wage. Over here in Germany I have a friend who works for Airport Security on minimum wage. Is it OK for them to ignore what goes through the scanner for that reason, or should they be as professional as possible ? The other point is, if they don't like the minimum wage job, find another job or try to better yourself. Don't take it out on CUSTOMERS items.
I'm sorry but you can tell she is completely dis-interested in her job from looking at her back? My comment about being under pressure comes from my 18 years of experience working the ramp and a first hand knowledge that that once you start getting jet bridge bags most times you are 15 minutes or less from departure and you are under pressure to get that flight out on-time or be prepared to answer for it if you are the cause of the flight being delayed. Your comment shows you complete lack of understanding of what goes on behind the scenes and how airlines are asking their ground crews to do more with less. Wages have nothing to do with this and the attempt by people on this thread to boil this down to minimum wage is so ridiculous because when I left the ramp I was making $24.00 an hour a far cry from minimum wage. But guess what if I was loading a 752/3, 738/9 and there was no loading system or the system didn't work I threw your bag from the door to the person who was 3/4 of the way down the pit. Think about how long a 735-300 even the 739ER is there are only 2 people in the pit it takes a lot of force to get the bag from the doorway to the bulk head. These aircraft are like bowling alleys and your bags are the bowling balls. It is not that people don't care it is just a fact that this is how narrow body aircraft are loaded. While you may not like you saw on the video, and you may want to think your bag is being handled with kid gloves, the reality is quite different. It doesn't matter the airline you fly either it is the way the commercial airline system is designed. If you want your belonging to be handled with care book a private jet. Just know that if you fly commercially the entire system from the moment your bag disappears on the belt after check-in the entire system is designed to be fast and rough on your bag it is the only way airlines can process tens of thousands of bags per day. This notion that she is handling the bags this way because she is only making minimum wage is ridiculous she could be making minimum wage however she could be making a lot more than minimum wage, her hourly rate will not change the way your bags are handled.
yvr2018 wrote:lol at the post about sliding bags, not gonna happen on the 738 or 739, only way to get the bags to the door is to throw them. On the A320 its not so bad and bags can be slid sometimes but heavy bags don't slide well and the floors are not always in great shape making sliding more difficult.
If anything the automated sorting is the worst for a bag, the kickers are not gentle, most of the damage to bags in my experience over the past 20 years is a result of the automated systems and not humans.
At the airport I work at, some of the jet bridges have railings and other obstacles that prevent us from placing the bag on top and sliding it down, we have to life the bag of the railing and drop it as the top of the slide is simply not accessible.
Contract companies also don't always pay poorly, where I am contract companies pay 17/hr for ramp, and up to 20/hr for lead, not exactly min. wage.
jonair8 wrote:If one thinks that this is an appalling treatment of bags, then one should not check their bag. In addition, do not store valuables in that bag. Take it with you into the cabin. For the bags that actually get checked into the bin of the aircraft by baggage handlers, they are treated way worse than how the gate agent treated the bags in this video. They do not call rampers bag throwers for nothing. Nothing special here.
LTU330 wrote:yvr2018 wrote:lol at the post about sliding bags, not gonna happen on the 738 or 739, only way to get the bags to the door is to throw them. On the A320 its not so bad and bags can be slid sometimes but heavy bags don't slide well and the floors are not always in great shape making sliding more difficult.
If anything the automated sorting is the worst for a bag, the kickers are not gentle, most of the damage to bags in my experience over the past 20 years is a result of the automated systems and not humans.
At the airport I work at, some of the jet bridges have railings and other obstacles that prevent us from placing the bag on top and sliding it down, we have to life the bag of the railing and drop it as the top of the slide is simply not accessible.
Contract companies also don't always pay poorly, where I am contract companies pay 17/hr for ramp, and up to 20/hr for lead, not exactly min. wage.
The Floors (and Sidewalls for that matter) are not always in great shape because of the fact you are throwing cases around the Compartment ! You would not believe how much money and time it takes in Maintenance to repair all the damage caused by this. Especially on the Airbus where quite often we have panels damaged beyond repairable limits. Not only that, but on the 737 when you eventually puncture one of the Aluminium Floor Panels, you start to get water ingress which leads to Corrosion and even more costly repairs. I am pretty certain that during your induction training they didn't tell you to throw the cases to the entry door. It's a real shame that your Airline doesn't have the Sliding Carpet system installed. Mind you, I have seen people still throwing cases then, so you can't win. Still, the Baggage Handlers will always find reason to say it is the normal practice.
