Etheereal
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:21 pm

jonair8 wrote:
If one thinks that this is an appalling treatment of bags, then one should not check their bag. In addition, do not store valuables in that bag. Take it with you into the cabin. For the bags that actually get checked into the bin of the aircraft by baggage handlers, they are treated way worse than how the gate agent treated the bags in this video. They do not call rampers bag throwers for nothing. Nothing special here.

*intergalactic facepalm*

Okay this post must be satire.
 
Etheereal
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:28 pm

I am absolutely amazed at the amount of both irony and satire in these posts. My goodness..
 
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Boeing757rb211
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:46 pm

Im not going to say that what she's doing is "ok" BUT that being said having had worked at an airline at a major airport... i definitely know how most pax can be :banghead: , That combined with in the video what can clearly be heard as last call "Boarding call, door will be closing in 2 minutes" it could have been a case of pax having been asked 10 times between check in and boarding about carry on's, but during the boarding process of course there were too many bags, no more room, leading to either having to delay the flight OR be slightly less gentle but faster in getting the excess bags to where they should have been in the first place. Just my 2 cents. :twocents:
 
nws2002
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:06 pm

Should she take more care with gate checks? Probably, but try bulk loading an A320 behind the cargo nets or even a long-bin MD-80 and you'll see luggage thrown and slid across the floor. It is just inevitable with the time crunch of a turn. Most ramp agents will take a little more care with stroller, carseats, and wheelchairs, but bags are often thrown around. We used to throw gate check bags down from the top of the jet bridge stairs to someone waiting at the bottom to catch them or chuck them into the air con hose cart under the jet bridge.
 
Cush
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:20 pm

I don't see anything wrong in this video..... And honestly I've seen much much worse in my time working the bag room for 2 large airlines...
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
KentB27
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:25 pm

I think a lot of people would be in for a huge shock if they actually saw what the workers on the ramp do with their bags. It's not a delicate process. I don't expect them to be gentle. I don't really have a problem with what she is doing.
 
stratclub
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:33 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.


That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.

Kind of a slippery slope, but a good lawyer might be able to make a case that the video recording event took place on private property without the permission of the subject. Would the subject have the means or even the desire to pursue legal proceedings? probably not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property
 
chrisair
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:40 pm

Aye braddah, da bags so heavy, dass why tita throw dem down da slide.

Waterbomber wrote:
This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.


No. Sistah's outside in a public place. If she was in the bathroom doing this, then it'd be invasion of privacy, but you do not have an expectation of privacy outside, especially at an airport where there are massive windows and cameras everywhere.
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:51 pm

JoePatroni wrote:
stratclub wrote:
DarthLobster wrote:

If they're not smart enough to figure that out, then handling baggage is definitely above their intellectual pay grade.

There is no IQ requirement for baggage handlers.


Totally ignorant and extremely offensive post to the many baggage handlers who are members of this website and who work very hard, every single day to make sure your flights are loaded properly, efficiently and safely.

You should be ashamed of yourself and your hurtful words.


He’s not wrong, there is no IQ requirement (or for any job, actually). And while I don’t know who provides ground handling services for HA, some outfits (mainly contractors) will hire anyone who passes a criminal background check. With standards like that, you’re bound to get a few not-so-great folks.
Last edited by DarthLobster on Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
travelsonic
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:53 pm

stratclub wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.


That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.

Kind of a slippery slope, but a good lawyer might be able to make a case that the video recording event took place on private property without the permission of the subject.y


But not on the subject's property, of course - and even then, aren't the terminals often (NOT always, of course) leased to airlines, and owned by the people who own the airport, which often (again not always) would be a state agency of some kind?

(and even if it were the property of the subject, I bet it would be a bit more complicated, for example, if the person was out in public, like filming someone from a public street, it would seem different than, say, going into someone's home, or filming into their window.)
 
KentB27
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:14 pm

I find the headline to the article this thread is based on to be hilarious. The author claims that the video is every traveler's worst nightmare? Hahahahahahahahahahaha!! hahahahahaha!! ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! ha ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! OH NO!! MY BAG GOT ROUGHED UP A BIT!! OH, THE HUMANITY!! What could possibly happen that is worse than my luggage getting roughed up a bit? Well, a lot of things. Give me a break. This is a non-issue and a perfect example of clickbait and gotcha journalism.
Last edited by KentB27 on Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:16 pm

Are some of you that naive to believe bags are treated with the same care as an infant? News flash they are not. Pick your favorite narrow-body airplane. There is 95% chance that same airplane is probably bulk loaded. How do you think those bags go from the door to the bulkhead? If its a longer plane sliding won't cut it. A little more force is needed to put behind the bag to get it where it needs to go. Bags are not thrown/slid to intentionally damage them. But it is a necessary evil in airline industry. Yes, there certain tools reduce this, however, most airlines haven't not and will not invest in these.

stratclub wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.


That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.

Kind of a slippery slope, but a good lawyer might be able to make a case that the video recording event took place on private property without the permission of the subject. Would the subject have the means or even the desire to pursue legal proceedings? probably not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property


No good lawyer would waste time which such an angle. Nearly all commercial airports in the United States are run by some sort of government entity, making it public property in with controlled access. There is no expectation of privacy in public. Period. In this case, the State of Hawaii owns the commercial side of HNL.
 
TrojanSC
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:27 pm

Has anyone watched the video more than once and actually looked at how far down the slide the bags are falling? It does not seem that bad... Also, they're not being dropped on tarmac. That slide definitely has some bounce to it which would soften the impact.

Should she have set each bag down at the top of the slide and pushed them down with a gentle nudge like you would with a toddler at a playground? Lol...

I've had to check a bag with a laptop at the door before. I just took out the laptop and said, "see ya on the other side, bag!"
 
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Tugger
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:35 pm

I am actually surprised at the excuse making and level of disregard I am seeing in many replies by those in the industry. I know that bags get thrown around and sometimes damaged, I get that in any job speed is necessary and you don't always "want to watch the sausage being made".... but seriously. Professional pride should appear here somewhere.... and not just the "Heeeelllll yeah! THAT's how we do it!" kind.

The job is/can be hard and is often thankless. But if this was the guy bagging your groceries what would you say to them (or puts the tomatoes and eggs on the bottom and tosses the canned items on top)? Or the person washing you car and wiping down the inside, jumps across to get to the other side faster (maybe bangs their shoes into your headliner), or the mover taking your lamp outside and throwing it into the truck? Or an Amazon driver is careless with your package, tossing it onto your doorstep (and you see it)?

Seriously, as a ramper what would you say to these people? I get that luggage is tough and designed (mostly) to be that way but that does not excuse a poor job being done. Come on people.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
MaksFly
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:46 pm

reason number 439 for bringing your bag onto the plane and not checking/gate checking if possible.
 
TrojanSC
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:17 pm

Tugger wrote:
...But if this was the guy bagging your groceries what would you say to them (or puts the tomatoes and eggs on the bottom and tosses the canned items on top)? Or the person washing you car and wiping down the inside, jumps across to get to the other side faster (maybe bangs their shoes into your headliner), or the mover taking your lamp outside and throwing it into the truck? Or an Amazon driver is careless with your package, tossing it onto your doorstep (and you see it)?...
Tugg


I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that what she's doing is as egregious as the examples you gave. Is what she's doing really that far from industry standard? Don't the bags get treated with similar force by the sorting system behind the scenes anyway? Or when being thrown deep into the cargo pit of a 737?
 
stratclub
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:19 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
Are some of you that naive to believe bags are treated with the same care as an infant? News flash they are not. Pick your favorite narrow-body airplane. There is 95% chance that same airplane is probably bulk loaded. How do you think those bags go from the door to the bulkhead? If its a longer plane sliding won't cut it. A little more force is needed to put behind the bag to get it where it needs to go. Bags are not thrown/slid to intentionally damage them. But it is a necessary evil in airline industry. Yes, there certain tools reduce this, however, most airlines haven't not and will not invest in these.

stratclub wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.

Kind of a slippery slope, but a good lawyer might be able to make a case that the video recording event took place on private property without the permission of the subject. Would the subject have the means or even the desire to pursue legal proceedings? probably not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property


No good lawyer would waste time which such an angle. Nearly all commercial airports in the United States are run by some sort of government entity, making it public property in with controlled access. There is no expectation of privacy in public. Period. In this case, the State of Hawaii owns the commercial side of HNL.

If there is an expectation of being paid, a lawyer would be all over it. The gate is leased to HNL, which is a private entity and is responsible for operation IAW it's AOC and HNL company SOP. So, publicly owned and privately operated. Not the same as a public road or public park which are publicly owned and government operated.
 
satx
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:37 pm

addi375 wrote:
perfect example of you get what you pay for. In order to make money of these CHEAP fares we all demand, the airlines have to use out sourced workers at lower pay rates, In order to make money on these CHEAP fares the planes have to be in the air for longer periods. so that means less ground time which means everything is rushed to get them back in the air Shut it and put your money where you mouth is and start paying what it really costs to travel and then, maybe then you can complain because the airlines arent giving you what exactly you pay for. If you go to walmart you get walmart leve service, and when you go to Bloomies you pay more so you get better service....same thing apply here.


I didn't demand cheaper fares. I simply wanted better service. In the case of intercontinental travel I make a point of choosing airlines with better service over the cheapest airfares. Unfortunately US airlines have mostly moved in lock step further and further down the service standards ladder. What exactly did you realistically expect me to do about that? This is a supply side market where the seller handles nearly all of the decision making and the buyer is stuck with false choices that don't make much difference. After years of consolidation we have fewer options than ever but we still have low effort reasoning from people like you blaming the customer for choices that were never in our hands to begin with.
A300 319 320 321 332 333 388 B727 732 733 735 737 738 739 742 743 744 752 753 763 764 772 77E 77L 773 77W 788 789 C200 700 900 DHC2 DC9 E145 170 175 190 F100 MD81 82 83 87 88 90 | 38 Lines 44 Craft 58 Ports
 
AtomicGarden
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:11 pm

I know bags will suffer some tossing around, but this kind of handling will easily result in a broken wheel or handle. I don't find any justification to her working style. And I work for an a/l FFS!
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
IPFreely
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:33 am

vhtje wrote:
Baggage handlers have one objective only: to get bags loaded and unloaded quickly and efficiently so that the aircraft departs on time and baggage arrives in the baggage hall without the passengers waiting an undue amount of time. That speed objective precludes any chance of using delicacy when handling passengers' luggage. Of course, baggage handlers take due care and do not seek to deliberately damage bags, but speed is king.


I agree that the baggage handling in the video is probably not unusual and I have seen worse. But "everyone does it" does not make it right. I also would not use the "speed is king" excuse. Dropping bags from 6 feet above the slide does not change gravity or get them onto the ground any faster than dropping the bags from 6 inches above the slide. And if you watch this worker walking back and forth between the inside of the jetway and the top of the slide, there is no sign of any speed. Quite the opposite, in fact.
 
JAAlbert
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:03 am

KentB27 wrote:
I think a lot of people would be in for a huge shock if they actually saw what the workers on the ramp do with their bags. It's not a delicate process. I don't expect them to be gentle. I don't really have a problem with what she is doing.


Me neither. I do not work in the aviation industry so I have no first hand knowledge as to what happens behind the scenes. Still, I just don't see the issue. She's handling those bags about as gently as I handle my own bag when I toss it into the back of my car! She has my permission to toss my bag - which is typically filled with a bunch of soft clothes -- any how she wants.
 
Adispatcher
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:08 am

IPFreely wrote:


I threw bags like this every day. Imagine how your belongings are treated in the bins.

Do you want careful and late or on-time and thrown?
 
bgm
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:53 am

Adispatcher wrote:
IPFreely wrote:


I threw bags like this every day. Imagine how your belongings are treated in the bins.

Do you want careful and late or on-time and thrown?


Careful and on-time, please. It can be done.

Does containerized luggage get treated less roughly than bulk loaded luggage?
Less praying, more hand washing.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:39 am

If my previous post didn't make it obvious, this amuses me more than worries me. :spin:

I grew up on rough handling baggage commercials.

SFOtoORD wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.


That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.

I was raised to behave as if someone was video taping you.
Now that is the reality.

If you are in a public place (airport) you can be filmed. I have worked projects where dozens and dozens of people filmed me while I was working because they were on a tour and I was visible.


Everyone needs to accept everyone has a camera today.

Just as I accept my luggage will be tossed. I will not ship my laptop. There is a reason all LI-ion batteries must go in a carryon.
Why I use ziplocks around all the sunscreen, toothpaste, or other liquid.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
N353SK
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:40 am

bgm wrote:
Careful and on-time, please. It can be done.

Does containerized luggage get treated less roughly than bulk loaded luggage?


Good, Fast, Cheap ... you get two.

If you want Cheap and Fast, it won't be Good.
If you want Good and Cheap, it won't be Fast
If you want Fast and Good, it won't be Cheap


Guess which two the Airlines have picked?
 
IPFreely
Topic Author
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:15 am

N353SK wrote:
Good, Fast, Cheap ... you get two.

If you want Cheap and Fast, it won't be Good.
If you want Good and Cheap, it won't be Fast
If you want Fast and Good, it won't be Cheap


Guess which two the Airlines have picked?


I don't know if you watched the video. But if you did, you wouldn't have "fast" in your list.
 
737MAX7
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:06 am

Oh if you all saw how a bag gets from the bulkhead of a 737-800 to the door :? :lol:
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:35 am

Who carries a full-size laptop? Well not me, I carry two ;) I think the main problem here is the design of the work environment. The ramper has to turn 180 degrees to drop the bag, which is among the worst ergonomic moves you can do. The slide construction invites her to drop them. Putting them on the top and then having to manually push them in order for them to slide down will require more lifting and more time, so it just isn’t a very good design. The simplest improvement I can think of is to have a conveyor belt-style transport solutopn made of rollers (apparently called ”Gravity Roller Conveyor”) from the door to the slide so the ramper only puts the bag onto that from a convenient height (which probably means the conveyor should be placed 30 cm above the floor, allowing rampers to place bags there without lifting them, allowing them to just tip over onto the rollers). That ”roller belt” could then drop the bags from an acceptable height onto the slide. You could even cover the top of the slide with a net to make it impossible (or at least harder) to drop a bag at the wrong point. Humans are lazy, no matter what we like to think. From time to time we get bored at doing our jobs (especially if they are repetitive and heavy) and resort to short cuts. If companies provide poor solutions for getting the job done, a poor result is likely to be the outcome.

Did anyone think about how those bags landed when reacing the bottom of the slide at that speed?

/Fredrik
 
dazwalsh
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:15 am

737MAX7 wrote:
Oh if you all saw how a bag gets from the bulkhead of a 737-800 to the door :? :lol:


Surely anything other than sliding them along the floor is just a waste of energy?

Thats my point with the video in question, she could drop them at the top, not use extra energy propelling them 10 feet through the air first, its like she is going out of her way to damage the bags.
 
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LTU330
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:43 am

jayunited wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:
She needs to be fired!! Period!


No she doesn't, she is doing her job and that is the reason for the slide being on the side on the jet bridge. Baggage handlers are under pressure to make sure they don't cause a flight to take a delay. The moment you start getting jet bridge bags most times you are up against the clock and baggage handlers or their immediate supervisor do have to answer for a delay if they are the cause of that delay. The slides that you see on the side of jet bridges was installed by the airlines to keep from having the baggage handler walk up and down the stairs with bags but also to move large volumes of bags down to ramp level. When I look at this video as a former baggage handler who did the job for 18 years I don't see her doing anything wrong I see her doing her job trying to get an aircraft loaded and out on time.

Do people really thing their bags are gently handled by any airlines ramp personnel I can tell you they are not. Think about it aircraft like the 757-200/300, A320/21, 737-800/900, these narrow body aircraft have large baggage compartments some of these aircraft have no magic carpet, or nesting system and if they do have there are times when the system doesn't work do you really thing baggage handlers are walking each piece of luggage from the doorway to the bulk head? No that doesn't happen for the larger narrow bodies you may (may) have 2 people in the cargo pit however the person at the doorway who gabs the bag off the belt loader still has to throw your bag all the way to the person who is 3/4 of the way down the pit and lets not even talk about baggage sorters. These systems at large hubs are moving around 50-70 MPH and when your bag arrives at it intended pier or luggage belt an electronically controlled pusher snaps your bag out of the sorter at lightening speed.
If you think what she did is bad you need to take a tour of a bag room and check out the baggage sorter and see just how fast these machines sort bags and the force these machines use to knock your bag out of the sorter system. Sorters at major hubs have to sort thousands of bags per hour and these machines don't play nice with your bag the reality is the flying public has no idea what goes on behind the scenes once their bag is placed on the belt at the check-in counter.


Without wanting to sound disrespectful to your comment, she looks anything but "under pressure". What she looks is completely dis-interested in her job, and completely dis-interested in doing her best to minimize any damage to CUSTOMERS bags. Like others have said, you should not expect this just because of minimum wage. Over here in Germany I have a friend who works for Airport Security on minimum wage. Is it OK for them to ignore what goes through the scanner for that reason, or should they be as professional as possible ? The other point is, if they don't like the minimum wage job, find another job or try to better yourself. Don't take it out on CUSTOMERS items.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:37 am

That employee would be fired in any normal 1sr world country. Never mind how few you pay for your ticket, the airlines commit to meet some standards.

No one would accept a Ryanair employee pushing and kicking you through the boardig gate because his payslip is tiny, same applies to luggage. As usual, US standards.

(Recording someone in a public space/street being illegal? Oh come on, grow up!)
 
jayunited
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:14 pm

LTU330 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:
She needs to be fired!! Period!


No she doesn't, she is doing her job and that is the reason for the slide being on the side on the jet bridge. Baggage handlers are under pressure to make sure they don't cause a flight to take a delay. The moment you start getting jet bridge bags most times you are up against the clock and baggage handlers or their immediate supervisor do have to answer for a delay if they are the cause of that delay. The slides that you see on the side of jet bridges was installed by the airlines to keep from having the baggage handler walk up and down the stairs with bags but also to move large volumes of bags down to ramp level. When I look at this video as a former baggage handler who did the job for 18 years I don't see her doing anything wrong I see her doing her job trying to get an aircraft loaded and out on time.

Do people really thing their bags are gently handled by any airlines ramp personnel I can tell you they are not. Think about it aircraft like the 757-200/300, A320/21, 737-800/900, these narrow body aircraft have large baggage compartments some of these aircraft have no magic carpet, or nesting system and if they do have there are times when the system doesn't work do you really thing baggage handlers are walking each piece of luggage from the doorway to the bulk head? No that doesn't happen for the larger narrow bodies you may (may) have 2 people in the cargo pit however the person at the doorway who gabs the bag off the belt loader still has to throw your bag all the way to the person who is 3/4 of the way down the pit and lets not even talk about baggage sorters. These systems at large hubs are moving around 50-70 MPH and when your bag arrives at it intended pier or luggage belt an electronically controlled pusher snaps your bag out of the sorter at lightening speed.
If you think what she did is bad you need to take a tour of a bag room and check out the baggage sorter and see just how fast these machines sort bags and the force these machines use to knock your bag out of the sorter system. Sorters at major hubs have to sort thousands of bags per hour and these machines don't play nice with your bag the reality is the flying public has no idea what goes on behind the scenes once their bag is placed on the belt at the check-in counter.


Without wanting to sound disrespectful to your comment, she looks anything but "under pressure". What she looks is completely dis-interested in her job, and completely dis-interested in doing her best to minimize any damage to CUSTOMERS bags. Like others have said, you should not expect this just because of minimum wage. Over here in Germany I have a friend who works for Airport Security on minimum wage. Is it OK for them to ignore what goes through the scanner for that reason, or should they be as professional as possible ? The other point is, if they don't like the minimum wage job, find another job or try to better yourself. Don't take it out on CUSTOMERS items.


I'm sorry but you can tell she is completely dis-interested in her job from looking at her back? My comment about being under pressure comes from my 18 years of experience working the ramp and a first hand knowledge that that once you start getting jet bridge bags most times you are 15 minutes or less from departure and you are under pressure to get that flight out on-time or be prepared to answer for it if you are the cause of the flight being delayed. Your comment shows you complete lack of understanding of what goes on behind the scenes and how airlines are asking their ground crews to do more with less. Wages have nothing to do with this and the attempt by people on this thread to boil this down to minimum wage is so ridiculous because when I left the ramp I was making $24.00 an hour a far cry from minimum wage. But guess what if I was loading a 752/3, 738/9 and there was no loading system or the system didn't work I threw your bag from the door to the person who was 3/4 of the way down the pit. Think about how long a 735-300 even the 739ER is there are only 2 people in the pit it takes a lot of force to get the bag from the doorway to the bulk head. These aircraft are like bowling alleys and your bags are the bowling balls. It is not that people don't care it is just a fact that this is how narrow body aircraft are loaded. While you may not like you saw on the video, and you may want to think your bag is being handled with kid gloves, the reality is quite different. It doesn't matter the airline you fly either it is the way the commercial airline system is designed. If you want your belonging to be handled with care book a private jet. Just know that if you fly commercially the entire system from the moment your bag disappears on the belt after check-in the entire system is designed to be fast and rough on your bag it is the only way airlines can process tens of thousands of bags per day. This notion that she is handling the bags this way because she is only making minimum wage is ridiculous she could be making minimum wage however she could be making a lot more than minimum wage, her hourly rate will not change the way your bags are handled.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:49 pm

N353SK wrote:
bgm wrote:
Careful and on-time, please. It can be done.

Does containerized luggage get treated less roughly than bulk loaded luggage?


Good, Fast, Cheap ... you get two.

If you want Cheap and Fast, it won't be Good.
If you want Good and Cheap, it won't be Fast
If you want Fast and Good, it won't be Cheap


Guess which two the Airlines have picked?

ROTFL. So truel Good, Fast, Cheap is something too many managers have forgotten. This isn't a job worth automating, so no breaking the cost structure.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:14 pm

lightsaber wrote:
If my previous post didn't make it obvious, this amuses me more than worries me. :spin:

I grew up on rough handling baggage commercials.

SFOtoORD wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.


That’s a joke right? She’s standing out in the open. People looking out a window have every right to watch and record. She should try sucking less at her job.

I was raised to behave as if someone was video taping you.
Now that is the reality.

If you are in a public place (airport) you can be filmed. I have worked projects where dozens and dozens of people filmed me while I was working because they were on a tour and I was visible.


Everyone needs to accept everyone has a camera today.

Just as I accept my luggage will be tossed. I will not ship my laptop. There is a reason all LI-ion batteries must go in a carryon.
Why I use ziplocks around all the sunscreen, toothpaste, or other liquid.

Lightsaber


I think that the invasion of privacy occurs not when the person is filmed, but when it's posted on twitter for the whole world to see with the intention to judge the person's work performance.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:27 pm

stratclub wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
Are some of you that naive to believe bags are treated with the same care as an infant? News flash they are not. Pick your favorite narrow-body airplane. There is 95% chance that same airplane is probably bulk loaded. How do you think those bags go from the door to the bulkhead? If its a longer plane sliding won't cut it. A little more force is needed to put behind the bag to get it where it needs to go. Bags are not thrown/slid to intentionally damage them. But it is a necessary evil in airline industry. Yes, there certain tools reduce this, however, most airlines haven't not and will not invest in these.

stratclub wrote:
Kind of a slippery slope, but a good lawyer might be able to make a case that the video recording event took place on private property without the permission of the subject. Would the subject have the means or even the desire to pursue legal proceedings? probably not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property


No good lawyer would waste time which such an angle. Nearly all commercial airports in the United States are run by some sort of government entity, making it public property in with controlled access. There is no expectation of privacy in public. Period. In this case, the State of Hawaii owns the commercial side of HNL.

If there is an expectation of being paid, a lawyer would be all over it. The gate is leased to HNL, which is a private entity and is responsible for operation IAW it's AOC and HNL company SOP. So, publicly owned and privately operated. Not the same as a public road or public park which are publicly owned and government operated.


You are confused as to what constitutes a public space in the U.S.A. The fact that a carrier may lease the space from the airport authority may not change things at all.
 
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Faro
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:39 pm

Sometimes people really have nothing else to do...the video, the article and the present thread are all non-events...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
Interflug74
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:52 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:

Waterbomber wrote:
This video is an invasion of privacy for the ground worker.


You do understand that to have an invasion of privacy there has to be an expectation of privacy ? Standing outside of an airbridge in front of a terminal window pretty much qualifies as well as a non private as you can get.


It is generally a breach of privacy to post a video about someone without their consent on social media or in the public arena in general, if the person is recognisable from it.

That's why professional outlets scramble the faces to make the person unrecognisable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_rights


With the new EU-DSGVO, the Twittergirl could get sued to death by the Baggage"girl"
 
swacle
Posts: 510
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:08 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
Who carries a full-size laptop? Well not me, I carry two ;) I think the main problem here is the design of the work environment. The ramper has to turn 180 degrees to drop the bag, which is among the worst ergonomic moves you can do. The slide construction invites her to drop them. Putting them on the top and then having to manually push them in order for them to slide down will require more lifting and more time, so it just isn’t a very good design. The simplest improvement I can think of is to have a conveyor belt-style transport solutopn made of rollers (apparently called ”Gravity Roller Conveyor”) from the door to the slide so the ramper only puts the bag onto that from a convenient height (which probably means the conveyor should be placed 30 cm above the floor, allowing rampers to place bags there without lifting them, allowing them to just tip over onto the rollers). That ”roller belt” could then drop the bags from an acceptable height onto the slide. You could even cover the top of the slide with a net to make it impossible (or at least harder) to drop a bag at the wrong point. Humans are lazy, no matter what we like to think. From time to time we get bored at doing our jobs (especially if they are repetitive and heavy) and resort to short cuts. If companies provide poor solutions for getting the job done, a poor result is likely to be the outcome.

Did anyone think about how those bags landed when reacing the bottom of the slide at that speed?

/Fredrik


The jetway I work around have a gate in the railing making it possible to place the bags on the slide without lifting them over a rail like she had to. Still not the best ergonomic move but better than the video. Sadly, the slide is the industry standard and as rampers we do the best we can with the tools provided.

And to the guy above who said "anything more than sliding a bag is wasted energy..." I invite you to try to slide 50 pound bags to the bulkhead on a 737-800 (24 foot fwd bin, 30 foot aft bin) and tell me how that goes for you....
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
N353SK
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:36 pm

IPFreely wrote:
I don't know if you watched the video. But if you did, you wouldn't have "fast" in your list.


I don't know if you've been to HNL, but that's "fast" by their standards :lol:
 
bennett123
Posts: 9353
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:56 pm

Clearly time pressures are not an issue.

As for workload, lobbing it actually uses more energy than just putting it at the top.

IMO, she is fed up and probably resentful.

Besides, it is not her bag.
 
737MAX7
Posts: 107
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:23 am

dazwalsh wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
Oh if you all saw how a bag gets from the bulkhead of a 737-800 to the door :? :lol:


Surely anything other than sliding them along the floor is just a waste of energy?

Thats my point with the video in question, she could drop them at the top, not use extra energy propelling them 10 feet through the air first, its like she is going out of her way to damage the bags.

Yeah I’ll get right on that “just sliding” thing.... I’ll just push it with my magical finger and somehow propel it 20 some feet to the door. :roll: While I agree she was rough on the bags this is nothing compared to what they go through from check in, tsa screening, dropping onto the bag belt in the bag room, getting crushed on the bottom of the bag cart, thrown to the bulkhead while loading, crushed in the plane etc.
 
747-600X
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2000 3:11 am

Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:24 am

This is normal. Almost every ramper and definitely every airline I've ever seen treat bags this way. And honestly, this is gentle compared to what goes on down in the baggage handling rooms.

This is normal.

This is normal.

This is normal.
 
yvr2018
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 1:07 am

Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:49 am

lol at the post about sliding bags, not gonna happen on the 738 or 739, only way to get the bags to the door is to throw them. On the A320 its not so bad and bags can be slid sometimes but heavy bags don't slide well and the floors are not always in great shape making sliding more difficult.

If anything the automated sorting is the worst for a bag, the kickers are not gentle, most of the damage to bags in my experience over the past 20 years is a result of the automated systems and not humans.

At the airport I work at, some of the jet bridges have railings and other obstacles that prevent us from placing the bag on top and sliding it down, we have to life the bag of the railing and drop it as the top of the slide is simply not accessible.

Contract companies also don't always pay poorly, where I am contract companies pay 17/hr for ramp, and up to 20/hr for lead, not exactly min. wage.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 713
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:49 am

747-600X wrote:
This is normal. Almost every ramper and definitely every airline I've ever seen treat bags this way. And honestly, this is gentle compared to what goes on down in the baggage handling rooms.

This is normal.

This is normal.

This is normal.


But it isn't right.

But it isn't right.

But it isn't right.

Does me writing it many times make it less right?

In pretty much every walk of life, if you mistreat someones belongings and they get damaged, you're liable for that damage. I hope hundreds, nay thousands more videos like this are published so that airlines are finally forced to do the right thing without people continually saying "you paid a low price, expect your bags to be treated like shit and get damaged".

If fares rise, no problem. If profits take a little hit, so what, but add $5 "handle my bags nicely" tax on a fare and I guarantee that the bags will still be treated like shit, because the handlers think it's normal and think it's OK. All the excuses here are just that, excuses.

Have just a little pride in your job and do the RIGHT thing, not the NORMAL thing.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9387
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:02 am

Virtual737 wrote:
747-600X wrote:
This is normal. Almost every ramper and definitely every airline I've ever seen treat bags this way. And honestly, this is gentle compared to what goes on down in the baggage handling rooms.

This is normal.

This is normal.

This is normal.


But it isn't right.

But it isn't right.

But it isn't right.

Does me writing it many times make it less right?

In pretty much every walk of life, if you mistreat someones belongings and they get damaged, you're liable for that damage. I hope hundreds, nay thousands more videos like this are published so that airlines are finally forced to do the right thing without people continually saying "you paid a low price, expect your bags to be treated like shit and get damaged".

If fares rise, no problem. If profits take a little hit, so what, but add $5 "handle my bags nicely" tax on a fare and I guarantee that the bags will still be treated like shit, because the handlers think it's normal and think it's OK. All the excuses here are just that, excuses.

Have just a little pride in your job and do the RIGHT thing, not the NORMAL thing.


:checkmark:
There is hardly a way to say it better.
 
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LTU330
Posts: 251
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:21 am

jayunited wrote:
LTU330 wrote:
jayunited wrote:

No she doesn't, she is doing her job and that is the reason for the slide being on the side on the jet bridge. Baggage handlers are under pressure to make sure they don't cause a flight to take a delay. The moment you start getting jet bridge bags most times you are up against the clock and baggage handlers or their immediate supervisor do have to answer for a delay if they are the cause of that delay. The slides that you see on the side of jet bridges was installed by the airlines to keep from having the baggage handler walk up and down the stairs with bags but also to move large volumes of bags down to ramp level. When I look at this video as a former baggage handler who did the job for 18 years I don't see her doing anything wrong I see her doing her job trying to get an aircraft loaded and out on time.

Do people really thing their bags are gently handled by any airlines ramp personnel I can tell you they are not. Think about it aircraft like the 757-200/300, A320/21, 737-800/900, these narrow body aircraft have large baggage compartments some of these aircraft have no magic carpet, or nesting system and if they do have there are times when the system doesn't work do you really thing baggage handlers are walking each piece of luggage from the doorway to the bulk head? No that doesn't happen for the larger narrow bodies you may (may) have 2 people in the cargo pit however the person at the doorway who gabs the bag off the belt loader still has to throw your bag all the way to the person who is 3/4 of the way down the pit and lets not even talk about baggage sorters. These systems at large hubs are moving around 50-70 MPH and when your bag arrives at it intended pier or luggage belt an electronically controlled pusher snaps your bag out of the sorter at lightening speed.
If you think what she did is bad you need to take a tour of a bag room and check out the baggage sorter and see just how fast these machines sort bags and the force these machines use to knock your bag out of the sorter system. Sorters at major hubs have to sort thousands of bags per hour and these machines don't play nice with your bag the reality is the flying public has no idea what goes on behind the scenes once their bag is placed on the belt at the check-in counter.


Without wanting to sound disrespectful to your comment, she looks anything but "under pressure". What she looks is completely dis-interested in her job, and completely dis-interested in doing her best to minimize any damage to CUSTOMERS bags. Like others have said, you should not expect this just because of minimum wage. Over here in Germany I have a friend who works for Airport Security on minimum wage. Is it OK for them to ignore what goes through the scanner for that reason, or should they be as professional as possible ? The other point is, if they don't like the minimum wage job, find another job or try to better yourself. Don't take it out on CUSTOMERS items.


I'm sorry but you can tell she is completely dis-interested in her job from looking at her back? My comment about being under pressure comes from my 18 years of experience working the ramp and a first hand knowledge that that once you start getting jet bridge bags most times you are 15 minutes or less from departure and you are under pressure to get that flight out on-time or be prepared to answer for it if you are the cause of the flight being delayed. Your comment shows you complete lack of understanding of what goes on behind the scenes and how airlines are asking their ground crews to do more with less. Wages have nothing to do with this and the attempt by people on this thread to boil this down to minimum wage is so ridiculous because when I left the ramp I was making $24.00 an hour a far cry from minimum wage. But guess what if I was loading a 752/3, 738/9 and there was no loading system or the system didn't work I threw your bag from the door to the person who was 3/4 of the way down the pit. Think about how long a 735-300 even the 739ER is there are only 2 people in the pit it takes a lot of force to get the bag from the doorway to the bulk head. These aircraft are like bowling alleys and your bags are the bowling balls. It is not that people don't care it is just a fact that this is how narrow body aircraft are loaded. While you may not like you saw on the video, and you may want to think your bag is being handled with kid gloves, the reality is quite different. It doesn't matter the airline you fly either it is the way the commercial airline system is designed. If you want your belonging to be handled with care book a private jet. Just know that if you fly commercially the entire system from the moment your bag disappears on the belt after check-in the entire system is designed to be fast and rough on your bag it is the only way airlines can process tens of thousands of bags per day. This notion that she is handling the bags this way because she is only making minimum wage is ridiculous she could be making minimum wage however she could be making a lot more than minimum wage, her hourly rate will not change the way your bags are handled.


You don't just see her back. You see her front, her face, her whole demeanour. She is just slothing. No interest. Don't insult me by saying I have no idea about what goes on in the Airline world. I have been in this industry after leaving the Air Force in 1990, so 28 years working for Airlines so far, more than half of that on the Ramp (albeit in Maintenance). I was always told that you are representing the Airline, so be smart, polite and do your job correctly especially in view of passengers. To say it doesn't matter what Airline you fly is correct, but it doesn't make it right. Would you honestly want your luggage treated this way ? It's that sort of attitude that makes all the new starters in the industry follow that mentality. Next time you buy something from Amazon don't complain if the item in the package is completely destroyed. If you want your item to be in working condition don't buy from Amazon. Walk to the Shop and pick it up yourself. That's the same logic as your Private Jet comment. Maybe your Airline should have a TV advert saying that if you want your Luggage to arrive in the condition you presented it at Check-in or at the Gate, then go fly a Private Jet because our Staff are overloaded all the time and have no regard for your belongings, but that's OK because it's the same at every Airline. Like I said before, if you don't like the job, don't take it out on someone elses property. Get a different job. Passengers KNOW Suitcases get damaged because of the Loading Systems in the Terminal, but they don't expect Carry On luggae to be treated the same way. Only a month ago I was getting off a flight were a Passenger was waiting for their Childs Buggy. When it was brought up it had a wheel bent nearly 90 degrees, the metal tubing completely bent. You can imagine how p****d off they were. Yes they will have got compensation most likely, but it doesn't help them there and then does it ?
 
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LTU330
Posts: 251
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Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:30 am

yvr2018 wrote:
lol at the post about sliding bags, not gonna happen on the 738 or 739, only way to get the bags to the door is to throw them. On the A320 its not so bad and bags can be slid sometimes but heavy bags don't slide well and the floors are not always in great shape making sliding more difficult.

If anything the automated sorting is the worst for a bag, the kickers are not gentle, most of the damage to bags in my experience over the past 20 years is a result of the automated systems and not humans.

At the airport I work at, some of the jet bridges have railings and other obstacles that prevent us from placing the bag on top and sliding it down, we have to life the bag of the railing and drop it as the top of the slide is simply not accessible.

Contract companies also don't always pay poorly, where I am contract companies pay 17/hr for ramp, and up to 20/hr for lead, not exactly min. wage.


The Floors (and Sidewalls for that matter) are not always in great shape because of the fact you are throwing cases around the Compartment ! You would not believe how much money and time it takes in Maintenance to repair all the damage caused by this. Especially on the Airbus where quite often we have panels damaged beyond repairable limits. Not only that, but on the 737 when you eventually puncture one of the Aluminium Floor Panels, you start to get water ingress which leads to Corrosion and even more costly repairs. I am pretty certain that during your induction training they didn't tell you to throw the cases to the entry door. It's a real shame that your Airline doesn't have the Sliding Carpet system installed. Mind you, I have seen people still throwing cases then, so you can't win. Still, the Baggage Handlers will always find reason to say it is the normal practice.
 
planecane
Posts: 1491
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:33 am

jonair8 wrote:
If one thinks that this is an appalling treatment of bags, then one should not check their bag. In addition, do not store valuables in that bag. Take it with you into the cabin. For the bags that actually get checked into the bin of the aircraft by baggage handlers, they are treated way worse than how the gate agent treated the bags in this video. They do not call rampers bag throwers for nothing. Nothing special here.


Long ago I was on a TWA flight and there was a short delay after the cabin door was closed. The pilot made an announcement that "we'll be on our way in a few minutes. They are just throwing, [pause] I mean carefully placing some last minute bags on board."
 
aden23
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:19 am

Airline employees treating customers with contempt?

Color me surprised.
 
yvr2018
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 1:07 am

Re: Video of Hawaiian Employee Chucking Bags Posted on Twitter

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:49 pm

LTU330 wrote:
yvr2018 wrote:
lol at the post about sliding bags, not gonna happen on the 738 or 739, only way to get the bags to the door is to throw them. On the A320 its not so bad and bags can be slid sometimes but heavy bags don't slide well and the floors are not always in great shape making sliding more difficult.

If anything the automated sorting is the worst for a bag, the kickers are not gentle, most of the damage to bags in my experience over the past 20 years is a result of the automated systems and not humans.

At the airport I work at, some of the jet bridges have railings and other obstacles that prevent us from placing the bag on top and sliding it down, we have to life the bag of the railing and drop it as the top of the slide is simply not accessible.

Contract companies also don't always pay poorly, where I am contract companies pay 17/hr for ramp, and up to 20/hr for lead, not exactly min. wage.


The Floors (and Sidewalls for that matter) are not always in great shape because of the fact you are throwing cases around the Compartment ! You would not believe how much money and time it takes in Maintenance to repair all the damage caused by this. Especially on the Airbus where quite often we have panels damaged beyond repairable limits. Not only that, but on the 737 when you eventually puncture one of the Aluminium Floor Panels, you start to get water ingress which leads to Corrosion and even more costly repairs. I am pretty certain that during your induction training they didn't tell you to throw the cases to the entry door. It's a real shame that your Airline doesn't have the Sliding Carpet system installed. Mind you, I have seen people still throwing cases then, so you can't win. Still, the Baggage Handlers will always find reason to say it is the normal practice.



Like it or not bags have to be thrown a bit to load the planes, no other option. A large heavy bag will not slide very far, only way is to throw it. Small light bag sure no problem sliding it all the way, a 50-60 pound bag, sliding isn't going to cut it.

Oh and the training videos, they do show ramp agents throwing the bags, the airlines know this is the only viable way to load these planes since they have no interest in either providing magic carpets or the power stow type belt loader, so since the only tool provided to load inside the bin is 2 humans, bags will be thrown a bit, there is no other option regardless of what some may want to think.

There is a difference between necessary force required and excessive force, and I do think the HA employee is using excessive force, but to say a bags should not be thrown at all, well that isn't realistic with US and Canadian airlines and their lack of can loading for A320's and no magic carpet on the 738/739's.

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