LATAM adding Munich

LIRF · Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:29 am

Just announced, LATAM is set to begin GRU-MUC next year.
No other details so far but I could just imagine that it would likely be a daily 763 service.

LATAM Airlines to Serve Munich From 2019
http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/sou ... from-2019/

FA9295 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:30 am

LIRF wrote:
Just announced, LATAM is set to begin GRU-MUC next year.
No other details so far but I could just imagine that it would likely be a daily 763 service.

LATAM Airlines to Serve Munich From 2019
http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/sou ... from-2019/

Yeah, the 767 does seem the most likely here. But maybe they'll use the A350 for the inaugural flight...

continental004 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:32 am

Did not expect this.

Reaction to AV?

LIRF · Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:52 am

You have also to consider that LH cancelled the route about 2 years ago.
So no direct competition there.

Mistral1 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:40 am

Great addition to the network. MEL, SJC, TLV, FCO, BOS, JNB, MUC... LATAM is on fire right now.

C010T3 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:18 pm

LH will not like this.

jasoncrh · Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:36 pm

SJC?? San Jose California? They failed at SFO so I’d be shocked if they succeed in San Jose...

Mistral1 wrote:
Great addition to the network. MEL, SJC, TLV, FCO, BOS, JNB, MUC... LATAM is on fire right now.

EvanWSFO · Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:58 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
SJC?? San Jose California? They failed at SFO so I’d be shocked if they succeed in San Jose...

Mistral1 wrote:
Great addition to the network. MEL, SJC, TLV, FCO, BOS, JNB, MUC... LATAM is on fire right now.

I too am surprised by this. Will be interesting to follow.

ahj2000 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:03 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
SJC?? San Jose California? They failed at SFO so I’d be shocked if they succeed in San Jose...

Mistral1 wrote:
Great addition to the network. MEL, SJC, TLV, FCO, BOS, JNB, MUC... LATAM is on fire right now.

SJO. Costa Rica.

pipeafcr · Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:12 pm

continental004 wrote:
Did not expect this.

Reaction to AV?

Most definetely, as was BOS.

PRGEC · Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:14 pm

Mistral1 wrote:
Great addition to the network. MEL, SJC, TLV, FCO, BOS, JNB, MUC... LATAM is on fire right now.

They have added GRU-TUC/MDZ and GRU-LAS seasonal as well.
They found a pot of gold in their Internacional network.

KLDC10 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:49 pm

LIRF wrote:
No other details so far but I could just imagine that it would likely be a daily 763 service.

Any chance it could be a tag-on leg from Madrid like the Frankfurt flight? The article doesn't say if it will be direct or not.
As it stands, the Business Class service aboard their FRA-MAD flight is the best intra-European service offering available today.

dcajet · Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:51 pm

[threeid][/threeid]Good for LATAM and GRU, by now, South America's premier hub to Europe. With all these new, international long haul routes from SP, GRU becomes LA's main international hub. Slowly but surely, after a very complicated first years, LATAM is beginning to deliver on the promises of the LA-JJ merger.

Any chances of Lufty restarting this route have pretty much flown out of the window... auf wiedersehen

a350lover · Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:52 pm

TAP won't like this.
Neither Iberia.

dcajet · Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:54 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
LIRF wrote:
No other details so far but I could just imagine that it would likely be a daily 763 service.

Any chance it could be a tag-on leg from Madrid like the Frankfurt flight? The article doesn't say if it will be direct or not.
As it stands, the Business Class service aboard their FRA-MAD flight is the best intra-European service offering available today.

It will be a non stop flight. LATAM being the best intra-European biz class today says more about the sad state of Biz class in Europe than it says about LATAM (the latter's J is nothing to write home about).

KLDC10 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:10 pm

dcajet wrote:
It will be a non stop flight. LATAM being the best intra-European biz class today says more about the sad state of Biz class in Europe than it says about LATAM (the latter's J is nothing to write home about).

It compares favorably to Lufthansa's long-haul hard product in J, which is 2-3-2 on the Boeing 747. Having flown both, I'd say LATAM has the edge in terms of the hard-product, because I'm not a fan of the way Lufthansa seats are angled towards each other.

As for intra-European business, LATAM's product blows the competitors out of the water. Flatbed or blocked middle seat? The choice is obvious, and they're usually cheaper than Lufthansa on the route too.

thgsr08 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:00 pm

I don't understand why there's comparasion with AV. AV flies from BOG and LATAM flies from GRU. If someone intends to go to MUC from GRU, the obvious choice would be a flight to MAD/LHR/CDG/MXP/FCO/BCN/FRA and then MUC, not GRU-BOG-MUC.

thgsr08 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:03 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
LIRF wrote:
No other details so far but I could just imagine that it would likely be a daily 763 service.

Any chance it could be a tag-on leg from Madrid like the Frankfurt flight? The article doesn't say if it will be direct or not.
As it stands, the Business Class service aboard their FRA-MAD flight is the best intra-European service offering available today.

It'll be operated by LATAM Brasil, that flies nonstop to both FRA and MAD.

402679 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:18 pm

You guys keep saying that LH won't like this, but I think they will have to suck it up.
Why?
Because JJ still have codeshare agreements with LH group. O6 still don't offer the same connectivity as JJ. JJ and LH still need each other.

Let's not forget that JJ have also applied to increase frequency in the GRU-FRA route. I think from 7 weekly to 10 weekly.

PS: Latam is really expanding their network which is also good.

BTC · Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:59 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It will be a non stop flight. LATAM being the best intra-European biz class today says more about the sad state of Biz class in Europe than it says about LATAM (the latter's J is nothing to write home about).

It compares favorably to Lufthansa's long-haul hard product in J, which is 2-3-2 on the Boeing 747. Having flown both, I'd say LATAM has the edge in terms of the hard-product, because I'm not a fan of the way Lufthansa seats are angled towards each other.

As for intra-European business, LATAM's product blows the competitors out of the water. Flatbed or blocked middle seat? The choice is obvious, and they're usually cheaper than Lufthansa on the route too.

I flew that on an Avios redemption earlier this year. Absolutely fantastic flight, great crew.
Not the greatest business class if you're flying longhaul with a stranger beside you, but I was lucky with an empty seat, and only short haul.

PRGEC · Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:00 pm

thgsr08 wrote:
I don't understand why there's comparasion with AV. AV flies from BOG and LATAM flies from GRU. If someone intends to go to MUC from GRU, the obvious choice would be a flight to MAD/LHR/CDG/MXP/FCO/BCN/FRA and then MUC, not GRU-BOG-MUC.

AV offers the one and only nonstop flight from South America to Munich and considering they have a great feeding from this continent, they can also funnel through BOG passengers from GRU, GIG, EZE, SCL and LIM to Munich. By the time Latam starts its GRU-MUC all this feeding AV has will be drought since GRU is a much more direct line and has a much better feeding from South America cities, regardless its huge O/D which is much bigger than BOG's.

KLDC10 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:15 pm

BTC wrote:
I flew that on an Avios redemption earlier this year. Absolutely fantastic flight, great crew.
Not the greatest business class if you're flying longhaul with a stranger beside you, but I was lucky with an empty seat, and only short haul.

The crew on my flight with them were fantastic - couldn't do enough to help.
All in all, LATAM has a pretty competitive product, even though 1-2-1 Business would of course be preferable. The Premium Business product aboard the former TAM 777s unfortunately leaves quite a bit to be desired in terms of the hard product. The new A350 product at 2-2-2 is far more attractive than the 2-3-2 product aboard the 777s. Business Class shouldn't really have a middle seat in this day and age.

C010T3 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:24 pm

geoshina wrote:
You guys keep saying that LH won't like this, but I think they will have to suck it up.
Why?
Because JJ still have codeshare agreements with LH group. O6 still don't offer the same connectivity as JJ. JJ and LH still need each other.

Let's not forget that JJ have also applied to increase frequency in the GRU-FRA route. I think from 7 weekly to 10 weekly.

PS: Latam is really expanding their network which is also good.

I think it is really great that JJ is expanding. It was what everyone was expecting after the merger came through.

At this point, O6 has already achieved a size which is very interesting for LH. JJ does not really offer much more in terms of immediate connections. If you take the entire day at GRU, sure, JJ is much stronger.

Launching additional frequencies to FRA was not really a threat considering that JJ would not offer anything more than LH does. They could even launch GRU-ZRH that that LH Group would see as much as a problem, but MUC is the ultimate fortress.

ojjunior · Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:38 pm

Mistral1 wrote:
Great addition to the network. MEL, SJC, TLV, FCO, BOS, JNB, MUC... LATAM is on fire right now.

Incorrect. MEL won't depart GRU, but SCL.

ojjunior · Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:39 pm

C010T3 wrote:
geoshina wrote:
You guys keep saying that LH won't like this, but I think they will have to suck it up.
Why?
Because JJ still have codeshare agreements with LH group. O6 still don't offer the same connectivity as JJ. JJ and LH still need each other.

Let's not forget that JJ have also applied to increase frequency in the GRU-FRA route. I think from 7 weekly to 10 weekly.

PS: Latam is really expanding their network which is also good.

I think it is really great that JJ is expanding. It was what everyone was expecting after the merger came through.

At this point, O6 has already achieved a size which is very interesting for LH. JJ does not really offer much more in terms of immediate connections. If you take the entire day at GRU, sure, JJ is much stronger.

Launching additional frequencies to FRA was not really a threat considering that JJ would not offer anything more than LH does. They could even launch GRU-ZRH that that LH Group would see as much as a problem, but MUC is the ultimate fortress.

Do you guys realize JJ no longer exists, right?

Mistral1 · Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:53 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
Great addition to the network. MEL, SJC, TLV, FCO, BOS, JNB, MUC... LATAM is on fire right now.

Incorrect. MEL won't depart GRU, but SCL.

I wasn’t talkng about flights departing from GRU only, but from the whole network, as SJO (not SJC, as I stated) departs from LIM. TLV flight will originate from SCL, with GRU being only a stopover.

PRGEC · Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:01 am

C010T3 wrote:
I think it is really great that JJ is expanding. It was what everyone was expecting after the merger came through.

And if it wasn't by Brazilian ANAC allowing aircraft exchange between two different countries/airlines we'd probably not see this expansion going that fast.

A388 · Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:33 am

This is a retaliaton on AV starting nonstop flights from BOG. I wonder if AV can sustain their BOG flight if most of their feed will use LATAM via GRU.

A388

RvA · Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:00 am

KLDC10 wrote:
LIRF wrote:
No other details so far but I could just imagine that it would likely be a daily 763 service.

Any chance it could be a tag-on leg from Madrid like the Frankfurt flight? The article doesn't say if it will be direct or not.
As it stands, the Business Class service aboard their FRA-MAD flight is the best intra-European service offering available today.

Having flown LHR-MAD and back both on BA 777 and IB A340 as well as LHR-HEL on the AY A350 in business I disagree. Finnair comes first then IB on my list. Food wise IB but the AY hard product is great.

adamh8297 · Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:02 am

thgsr08 wrote:
I don't understand why there's comparasion with AV. AV flies from BOG and LATAM flies from GRU. If someone intends to go to MUC from GRU, the obvious choice would be a flight to MAD/LHR/CDG/MXP/FCO/BCN/FRA and then MUC, not GRU-BOG-MUC.

To an extent same with BOS... though CM is more of a factor there since PTY has better Brazilian coverage than AV/BOG.

KLDC10 · Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:56 am

RvA wrote:
Having flown LHR-MAD and back both on BA 777 and IB A340 as well as LHR-HEL on the AY A350 in business I disagree. Finnair comes first then IB on my list. Food wise IB but the AY hard product is great.

It's subjective I guess. I gave the crew very high marks in my assessment of LATAM because I was just blown away by their positive attitude and willingness to help. Also, the Champagne and Warm Nuts welcome service on the ground is very welcome. I've yet to try the Iberia A340 or Finnair A350 within Europe, but I can certainly imagine that the hard product on both is superior to that aboard LATAM. I didn't realize British Airways flies the 777 from LHR-MAD, and their business product is all-aisle access as far as I know, but the 2-4-2 layout with the backwards seats is just awful and claustrophobic.

Jomar777 · Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:03 am

I wonder if this service would remain on an A350 rather than going B763. They could bring one of those flying on QR back for this service... Just a thought...

Jomar777 · Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:06 am

ojjunior wrote:
C010T3 wrote:
geoshina wrote:
You guys keep saying that LH won't like this, but I think they will have to suck it up.
Why?
Because JJ still have codeshare agreements with LH group. O6 still don't offer the same connectivity as JJ. JJ and LH still need each other.

Let's not forget that JJ have also applied to increase frequency in the GRU-FRA route. I think from 7 weekly to 10 weekly.

PS: Latam is really expanding their network which is also good.

I think it is really great that JJ is expanding. It was what everyone was expecting after the merger came through.

At this point, O6 has already achieved a size which is very interesting for LH. JJ does not really offer much more in terms of immediate connections. If you take the entire day at GRU, sure, JJ is much stronger.

Launching additional frequencies to FRA was not really a threat considering that JJ would not offer anything more than LH does. They could even launch GRU-ZRH that that LH Group would see as much as a problem, but MUC is the ultimate fortress.

Do you guys realize JJ no longer exists, right?

I guess they do, my friend, but it seems kind of hard to split between Chile and Brazil at present for LATAM here on a.net...

They are now on one single Code but is still a kind of split business with Chile operating Boeings from Santiago and Brazil operating mainly Airbus from Guarulhos on Long Haul (I guess the B77Ws later will go when the A350-1000s arrive...).

C010T3 · Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:37 am

ojjunior wrote:
Do you guys realize JJ no longer exists, right?

Of course it does. Even if JJ does not appear as a marketing code in moat flight, its ICAO will not disappear at all.

RvA · Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:17 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
RvA wrote:
Having flown LHR-MAD and back both on BA 777 and IB A340 as well as LHR-HEL on the AY A350 in business I disagree. Finnair comes first then IB on my list. Food wise IB but the AY hard product is great.

It's subjective I guess. I gave the crew very high marks in my assessment of LATAM because I was just blown away by their positive attitude and willingness to help. Also, the Champagne and Warm Nuts welcome service on the ground is very welcome. I've yet to try the Iberia A340 or Finnair A350 within Europe, but I can certainly imagine that the hard product on both is superior to that aboard LATAM. I didn't realize British Airways flies the 777 from LHR-MAD, and their business product is all-aisle access as far as I know, but the 2-4-2 layout with the backwards seats is just awful and claustrophobic.

Agreed it’s old and outdated.
Both IB and AY soft product was great too. Great crews. IB will our their A350 on LHR-MAD for a while too. Should be a nice ride.

SJOtoLIR · Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:44 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
SJO. Costa Rica.

LIM-SJO began on January 02nd and it’s operated by LATAM Peru division as 4x weekly and featuring a 319-320-321 mix at this time.

Regards.

dcajet · Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:46 pm

A388 wrote:
This is a retaliaton on AV starting nonstop flights from BOG. I wonder if AV can sustain their BOG flight if most of their feed will use LATAM via GRU.

A388

You do realize that GRU and BOG are separated by a distance roughly comparable to that existing between LAX and JFK? Who would they be competing for? GRU serves its own huge domestic market, as well as Argentina and the other southern cone markets (Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc). BOG serves the northern portion of South America. There is not much of an overlap between the two hubs, at all.

OGLOBAL · Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:02 pm

dcajet wrote:
A388 wrote:
This is a retaliaton on AV starting nonstop flights from BOG. I wonder if AV can sustain their BOG flight if most of their feed will use LATAM via GRU.

A388

You do realize that GRU and BOG are separated by a distance roughly comparable to that existing between LAX and JFK? Who would they be competing for? GRU serves its own huge domestic market, as well as Argentina and the other southern cone markets (Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc). BOG serves the northern portion of South America. There is not much of an overlap between the two hubs, at all.

the only overlap could be places like LIM and maybe SCL

dcajet · Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:30 pm

Lufthansa and Swiss are now extra-OneWorld partners on LATAM's LATAM Pass FFP. I am not sure if the reverse also applies for Miles & More.

OGLOBAL wrote:
dcajet wrote:
A388 wrote:
This is a retaliaton on AV starting nonstop flights from BOG. I wonder if AV can sustain their BOG flight if most of their feed will use LATAM via GRU.

A388

You do realize that GRU and BOG are separated by a distance roughly comparable to that existing between LAX and JFK? Who would they be competing for? GRU serves its own huge domestic market, as well as Argentina and the other southern cone markets (Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc). BOG serves the northern portion of South America. There is not much of an overlap between the two hubs, at all.

the only overlap could be places like LIM and maybe SCL

BOG is an ideal connecting point for those passengers originating in LIM; for those in SCL, GRU or EZE are better situated as connecting hubs for Europe.

402679 · Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:55 pm

C010T3 wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Do you guys realize JJ no longer exists, right?

Of course it does. Even if JJ does not appear as a marketing code in moat flight, its ICAO will not disappear at all.

And all Latam Brazil flights to/from USA are "JJ" and not LA

thgsr08 · Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:42 pm

ojjunior wrote:
C010T3 wrote:
geoshina wrote:
You guys keep saying that LH won't like this, but I think they will have to suck it up.
Why?
Because JJ still have codeshare agreements with LH group. O6 still don't offer the same connectivity as JJ. JJ and LH still need each other.

Let's not forget that JJ have also applied to increase frequency in the GRU-FRA route. I think from 7 weekly to 10 weekly.

PS: Latam is really expanding their network which is also good.

I think it is really great that JJ is expanding. It was what everyone was expecting after the merger came through.

At this point, O6 has already achieved a size which is very interesting for LH. JJ does not really offer much more in terms of immediate connections. If you take the entire day at GRU, sure, JJ is much stronger.

Launching additional frequencies to FRA was not really a threat considering that JJ would not offer anything more than LH does. They could even launch GRU-ZRH that that LH Group would see as much as a problem, but MUC is the ultimate fortress.

Do you guys realize JJ no longer exists, right?

The code JJ doesn't but both airlines operates separately, so, to talk about one instead of other, JJ still is in context.

stylo777 · Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:23 pm

Well, I don't see an ultimate impact on LHGroup as some would describe over here. DE/CH to GRU is pretty much covered by LH/LX with their best product inhouse. Don't forget the FRA-GIG as well as FRA-EZE on top of that. Yes, it might take away customers, but I don't believe to the extent of hurting a lot.

C010T3 · Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:34 pm

It is not about hurting anything. It is about not having resumed the route before the competition had the idea of even starting it.

dcajet · Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:21 pm

C010T3 wrote:
It is not about hurting anything. It is about not having resumed the route before the competition had the idea of even starting it.

Perhaps, and looking at their network, LH was not so keen about resuming MUC-GRU after all. They may well have some other lower hanging fruit out there. For DLH it is not always what the competition does, but what makes sense to them.

flyingqueen · Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:18 am

dcajet wrote:
C010T3 wrote:
It is not about hurting anything. It is about not having resumed the route before the competition had the idea of even starting it.

Perhaps, and looking at their network, LH was not so keen about resuming MUC-GRU after all. They may well have some other lower hanging fruit out there. For DLH it is not always what the competition does, but what makes sense to them.

Do you even follow them? LH added SAN because of DE. LH is very competitive and does not follow common sense. Let us be objective. Good to see MUC adds. FRA is so overrated. MUC is a better German airport.

dcajet · Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:23 am

PRGEC wrote:
C010T3 wrote:
I think it is really great that JJ is expanding. It was what everyone was expecting after the merger came through.

And if it wasn't by Brazilian ANAC allowing aircraft exchange between two different countries/airlines we'd probably not see this expansion going that fast.

Great move by the ANAC. That leaves LATAM Argentina as the only airline in the group that has its fleet completely isolated from the rest of the group's airlines. Bureaucracy is alive and well down south.

gatibosgru · Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:58 am

When did LH cancel MUC-GRU? I must have missed it somehow, glad to see LA filling the void!

dcajet · Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:56 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
When did LH cancel MUC-GRU? I must have missed it somehow, glad to see LA filling the void!

During the worst of the Brazilian recession, 2015 I believe.

reffado · Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:48 pm

dcajet wrote:
PRGEC wrote:
C010T3 wrote:
I think it is really great that JJ is expanding. It was what everyone was expecting after the merger came through.

And if it wasn't by Brazilian ANAC allowing aircraft exchange between two different countries/airlines we'd probably not see this expansion going that fast.

Great move by the ANAC. That leaves LATAM Argentina as the only airline in the group that has its fleet completely isolated from the rest of the group's airlines. Bureaucracy is alive and well down south.

Even then, it appears that LATAM Brazil is only taking advantage of this move in what regards the 767 fleet, as they have enough domestic capacity with their own narrowbody fleet "inherited" from JJ. I am interested in seeing how this plays out in the long term, however.

gatibosgru · Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:09 pm

With A35Ks coming and A359s still flying for QR, what are the odds this goes A350 eventually, even if just due to slack in the fleet? They're def keeping the 763s busy.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net