MEA330
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BA 767/A321 replacement

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:40 pm

With the upcoming conversion of the ex BMI/BMED A321's to BA European cabin configuration and the phasing out of the B767, will BA send their newly ordered 787-8 to long European destinations ATH/LCA replacing 767 and Middle East BEY/AMM/CAI replacing A321 ?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:44 am

I have a feeling BA is taking closely to Boeing on the specs of the 797.
When wasn't America great?


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rutankrd
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:51 am

There isn’t a replacement for the seven short haul 763 fleet cepting to Madrid and Moscow where they already use a 77E on some flights.

Tel Aviv has the 77w already and Cairo Is upgraded to a 789 with the first cabin.

Amman and Beirut will both probably go 788 through.

They were deployed around Europe mainly for truck capabilities and that work is being handed to EAT From/to Heathrow Luton and East Midlands.

The ex mid haul 321 fleet is being repurposed as BA pretty much dumped the Trancaucus operations BMED acquired them for and the extra capacity on some of the inter Europe routes is in much more demand.
That said regardless of the seat density BA rarely sell every one what ever the 32x model what with those blocked middle rows up front !

If you look at their operation and handling of the mid haul 321 fleet one wonders if BA really are 321NEO candidate -I think not imho.
Last edited by rutankrd on Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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SQ789
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:53 am

At this time, i think the 777/787 will replace the Mid Haul A321. So is the Mid Haul A321 are going for Short Haul?
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
raffik
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:51 am

I asked the same question last year and was told by people that not all of the ex BMI A321 fleet were being configured in to European configuration- they were hanging on to a small fleet of A321s in the mid haul layout which will continue to operate to the likes of Beirut etc.
I regularly fly LHR-BEY-LHR with BA so was interested in learning whether the 787 would be operated on the route because it would be useful to have the option of Premium Economy. I also heard on here a little while ago that BA is going to return to double daily operations to Beirut sometime this summer?! But I can't see this reflected in the timetable as of yet.
- Alec
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:00 am

rutankrd wrote:
There isn’t a replacement for the seven short haul 763 fleet cepting to Madrid and Moscow where they already use a 77E on some flights.

Tel Aviv has the 77w already and Cairo Is upgraded to a 789 with the first cabin.

Amman and Beirut will both probably go 788 through.

They were deployed around Europe mainly for truck capabilities and that work is being handed to EAT From/to Heathrow Luton and East Midlands.

The ex mid haul 321 fleet is being repurposed as BA pretty much dumped the Trancaucus operations BMED acquired them for and the extra capacity on some of the inter Europe routes is in much more demand.
That said regardless of the seat density BA rarely sell every one what ever the 32x model what with those blocked middle rows up front !

If you look at their operation and handling of the mid haul 321 fleet one wonders if BA really are 321NEO candidate -I think not imho.


BA have the A321neo on order on top of already operating the A320neo and have a large fleet of A32Xs that will need replacing at some point. I'm not sure why that qualifies as 'not an A321neo candidate'.
 
Andy33
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:10 am

I agree, and indeed A321neos start arriving later this year. Whether rutankrd thinks BA are A321neo candidates or not, BA themselves obviously think they are.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:17 am

BEY/AMM will probably go to 787.
TLV has ready gone to a widebody.
CAI will probably remain 787.
MOW could go back to short haul.

767 capacity will be regained by Airbus seat densification.
 
nbmike
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:04 pm

BEY/AMM are being moved from the Euro Fleet crew (who only operate A319/20/21 and the B767) to the Mixed Fleet crew (who operate A319/20/21 B787 B777 and B747 or A380) around September/October of this year. BA have CC based in Cairo who are trained on the 787 and operate alongside Mixed Fleet on the CAI route. Read into all this what you will, but I would suspect it is only a matter of time (given the 787 engine issues) before a wide body operates these routes.
 
ramzi
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:49 pm

Flying those mid-haul 321s on a monthly basis I can say they are taking less care of the cabin than they used to, and than they do on other BA aircraft that I fly. This includes an unusual amount of damaged seats/recline/IFE/tray tables. That leads me to believe (guess) that they don't have a long life planned for those cabins. The flight from BEY is also always, always full, and I often encounter passengers who complain about not having a WT+ cabin on that route as they are continuing in WT+. I have no idea when the shift would happen, or if it actually would, but a 788 on this route seems to make a lot of sense. The hiccup I can see is that the A321 currently sleeps at BEY overnight, that's around 10 hours of the aircraft just sitting--right now it is very hard to imagine them doing that on a daily basis with a 787, and it is just as hard to see BA keeping all that traffic from BEY without the convenient flight times for connections and in general.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
Armodeen
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:26 pm

ramzi wrote:
The hiccup I can see is that the A321 currently sleeps at BEY overnight, that's around 10 hours of the aircraft just sitting--right now it is very hard to imagine them doing that on a daily basis with a 787, and it is just as hard to see BA keeping all that traffic from BEY without the convenient flight times for connections and in general.


Good point. My family also fly this aircraft and route very regularly, enjoying the nice schedule it has now. Perhaps it will move to a late departure from LHR (like some of the other middle east destinations; DOH, DXB) and in line with what a few other airlines (including MEA) do. Depart around 22:00, arrive around 04:30 local. Departure time from BEY could be kept the same?

My family are big fans of the A321 on this route but I'm sure they would welcome the 787 also, and PE would surely be a winner.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:49 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
I have a feeling BA is taking closely to Boeing on the specs of the 797.


I have the feeling that everybody is whistling on Boeing's ear about the paper plane, and won't exist eventually.
 
Arion640
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:49 pm

Medium haul A321s being replaced by 787's and 767s being replaced by A321neos. Ironic the widebody replaces the narrowbody and narrowbody also replacing the widebody.

More 787's are expected to turn up on short runs to haul cargo as the short haul 767's are retired.
No bumps. No bangs - Concorde
 
ramzi
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:56 pm

Armodeen wrote:
ramzi wrote:
The hiccup I can see is that the A321 currently sleeps at BEY overnight, that's around 10 hours of the aircraft just sitting--right now it is very hard to imagine them doing that on a daily basis with a 787, and it is just as hard to see BA keeping all that traffic from BEY without the convenient flight times for connections and in general.


Good point. My family also fly this aircraft and route very regularly, enjoying the nice schedule it has now. Perhaps it will move to a late departure from LHR (like some of the other middle east destinations; DOH, DXB) and in line with what a few other airlines (including MEA) do. Depart around 22:00, arrive around 04:30 local. Departure time from BEY could be kept the same?

My family are big fans of the A321 on this route but I'm sure they would welcome the 787 also, and PE would surely be a winner.


Oddly that seems to be the best scenario to avoid having too much time lost on the ground, although it also means a miserably long layover at LHR for all eastbound transatlantic fliers. I'm positive they will not be able to fill a 787 on that schedule.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
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HoboJoe
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement 32x neo's are nothing more than lipstick on a Pig

Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:13 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
rutankrd wrote:
There isn’t a replacement for the seven short haul 763 fleet cepting to Madrid and Moscow where they already use a 77E on some flights.

Tel Aviv has the 77w already and Cairo Is upgraded to a 789 with the first cabin.

Amman and Beirut will both probably go 788 through.

They were deployed around Europe mainly for truck capabilities and that work is being handed to EAT From/to Heathrow Luton and East Midlands.

The ex mid haul 321 fleet is being repurposed as BA pretty much dumped the Trancaucus operations BMED acquired them for and the extra capacity on some of the inter Europe routes is in much more demand.
That said regardless of the seat density BA rarely sell every one what ever the 32x model what with those blocked middle rows up front !

If you look at their operation and handling of the mid haul 321 fleet one wonders if BA really are 321NEO candidate -I think not imho.


BA have the A321neo on order on top of already operating the A320neo and have a large fleet of A32Xs that will need replacing at some point. I'm not sure why that qualifies as 'not an A321neo candidate'.
 
raffik
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:46 am

Is it definite that all Mid Haul A321s are going to be converted? The last time this topic was brought up, people were adamant that 4 A321s were going to be left in the Mid Haul config. Mixed fleet crew already operate the 321 so that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't continue to operate to Beirut with them.
I'm really hoping they do send the 787 there, it certainly seems busy when I fly the route (regularly).
- Alec
 
747fly
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:06 am

The reason for the fleet swap (Euro to Mixed) in September is to do with the new Club World service - Eurofleet aren’t being trained due to the fact they only operate two routes with Club World (as opposed to Club Europe).
 
rutankrd
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:34 am

Andy33 wrote:
I agree, and indeed A321neos start arriving later this year. Whether rutankrd thinks BA are A321neo candidates or not, BA themselves obviously think they are.


Didn’t realise they were to receive 321NEO frames from the IAG order a soon as autumn - thought they were gettng geared engined 320s with the narrow seats, oh and slightly mixed up the new 321NEO with the LR version which I still don’t see with the wavy flag any time soon.

Bringing in the 321NEO, 320NEO and ridding the fleet of a number 319s including the end of lease ex BMI examples, now makes more sense to me whilst upping capacity ( blocked seats aside) and the densification process that is under way.

Therefore I stand corrected !
 
Andy33
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:47 am

There are even registrations allocated for the first six A321neo - G-NEOP to NEOV.
 
Cedric13
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:38 pm

BA have really reduced their flights to Amman and are using an a320 on the route. Beirut flights are still full and using an a321.
 
Arion640
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:50 pm

747fly wrote:
The reason for the fleet swap (Euro to Mixed) in September is to do with the new Club World service - Eurofleet aren’t being trained due to the fact they only operate two routes with Club World (as opposed to Club Europe).


So will the mid haul routes switch to buy on board? Ones that don't get widebodies.
No bumps. No bangs - Concorde
 
raffik
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:45 pm

Very confusing. So, we are no closer to finding out the fate of the Beirut route. BA sending a Euro configured A320 to Amman doesn't sound very comfortable for a 5+hour flight, especially in Business.
Does anyone know with any certainty the fate of the midhaul 321s - are they all being removed? Will Beirut see the 787 or will it go to an A320 like Amman?
- Alec
 
Andy33
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:52 pm

Cedric13 wrote:
BA have really reduced their flights to Amman and are using an a320 on the route. Beirut flights are still full and using an a321.


Inaccurate. In the last 28 days the Amman flight has operated 27 times with an A321 in mid-haul configuration, and exactly once with an A320, probably as a last minute substitute to avoid cancellation.
 
Cedric13
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:02 pm

Andy33 wrote:
Cedric13 wrote:
BA have really reduced their flights to Amman and are using an a320 on the route. Beirut flights are still full and using an a321.


Inaccurate. In the last 28 days the Amman flight has operated 27 times with an A321 in mid-haul configuration, and exactly once with an A320, probably as a last minute substitute to avoid cancellation.

Summer season to Amman is mostly a320. Check flightradar24, Kayak and BA website. The a321 makes some rare apperances tho.
 
Cedric13
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:04 pm

raffik wrote:
Very confusing. So, we are no closer to finding out the fate of the Beirut route. BA sending a Euro configured A320 to Amman doesn't sound very comfortable for a 5+hour flight, especially in Business.
Does anyone know with any certainty the fate of the midhaul 321s - are they all being removed? Will Beirut see the 787 or will it go to an A320 like Amman?

I don’t think Beirut will be operated by an a320 as the flight is always full but we’ll see!
 
Cedric13
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:18 pm

So I just got information that BA is indeed planning to introduce the Dreamliner on the Beirut route starting September-October. (Source at the airport)
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:30 pm

Some midhaul destinations are operated by short haul A320s and some flights are cancelled for the next few weeks as one of the midhaul aircraft requires unexpected maintenance.
 
Cedric13
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:08 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
Some midhaul destinations are operated by short haul A320s and some flights are cancelled for the next few weeks as one of the midhaul aircraft requires unexpected maintenance.

One of the reasons for the a320 service to Amman. Weird thing is that the rest of the summer season is to be operated by an a320 on BA’s route to Amman.
Beirut has seen no cancellation and no a320s and is planning to start receving the BA dreamliner starting September-October.
 
raffik
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:41 am

Cedric13 wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
Some midhaul destinations are operated by short haul A320s and some flights are cancelled for the next few weeks as one of the midhaul aircraft requires unexpected maintenance.

One of the reasons for the a320 service to Amman. Weird thing is that the rest of the summer season is to be operated by an a320 on BA’s route to Amman.
Beirut has seen no cancellation and no a320s and is planning to start receving the BA dreamliner starting September-October.


Just imagine paying for Business and ending up on one of their short haul A320s, 31" pitch, no IFE, normal Y seat.. I definitely wouldn't be happy.

I wonder if BA will maintain their existing schedule to Beirut.
Looking at it, the 787 isn't a huge difference in seats over the A321

A321 23 flat bed seats 131 Economy = 154
B788 35 flat bed seats, 25 WT+& 154 Economy so a difference of 60 seats, I'm sure they'll be able to sell them!
- Alec
 
ramzi
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:11 pm

raffik wrote:
Cedric13 wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
Some midhaul destinations are operated by short haul A320s and some flights are cancelled for the next few weeks as one of the midhaul aircraft requires unexpected maintenance.

One of the reasons for the a320 service to Amman. Weird thing is that the rest of the summer season is to be operated by an a320 on BA’s route to Amman.
Beirut has seen no cancellation and no a320s and is planning to start receving the BA dreamliner starting September-October.


Just imagine paying for Business and ending up on one of their short haul A320s, 31" pitch, no IFE, normal Y seat.. I definitely wouldn't be happy.

I wonder if BA will maintain their existing schedule to Beirut.
Looking at it, the 787 isn't a huge difference in seats over the A321

A321 23 flat bed seats 131 Economy = 154
B788 35 flat bed seats, 25 WT+& 154 Economy so a difference of 60 seats, I'm sure they'll be able to sell them!


I did that exact math this morning. Considering the efficiency of the 787 and the high demand for WT+ from BEY, it is almost impossible for them not make more money using a 787 on the route. I have already done that flight 8 times this year and it was 100% full every single time.

What I have heard is that Amman is switching to an A320 and decreasing frequency due to low demand. Keep in mind Royal Jordanian is also a member of One World, and can carry all of the connecting traffic to LHR and elsewhere if needed. BA is the only One World airline with logical connections across the atlantic (QR required a 7-8 hour detour flying to Doha and back). Looking at FR24 it is clear that the A321 is now rarely showing up at AMM, however it is routinely operating to Beirut with the exception of two flights where G-MEDF was grounded due to a landing gear malfunction (I was on that flight - no fun). Other places the mid haul 321s fly to routinely are Tel Aviv and Moscow, Tel Aviv already gets wide body service and Moscow can deal with either short haul or wide body service.

One of the mid haul A321s has been in maintenance for over a month, leading me to believe it is being converted, but that is just a guess. Another one is currently in what seems to be routine maintenance also at MAD. If the fleet is reduced to 3, that explains Amman being dropped, if it goes below that, it just doesn't make sense to still have this anomaly in a large, quite consistent fleet and product. I have also been hearing that the densified 321s, including the mid-haul birds, will replace former 767 routes in Europe, which is in line with what BA are doing.

While it is still hard for me to see a 787 sitting at BEY overnight, it is even harder to imagine the mid-haul types staying for much longer. In a way it is unfortunate as this business class product is superior to the usual BA Club World in my opinion, though at the same time it always seems to be in awkward limbo. On my most recent flight they provided the same pillow and comforter as their widebody Club World, but the old amenity kit. The service is improved, but not the same as flying across the Atlantic. The lounge experience at BEY, by the way, is also very basic. I find that strange since there is a QR lounge that is apparently only accessible to QR first customers. You would think someone with BA Gold status flying J would be able to use that.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
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TedToToe
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:25 pm

Cedric13 wrote:
So I just got information that BA is indeed planning to introduce the Dreamliner on the Beirut route starting September-October.

Offset by the dropping of YYC, perhaps!
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:02 pm

Midhaul fleet isn't being reduced to 3. One of the aircraft that is currently in routine maintenance has been found to have suffered significant damage that is going to take a month to fix hence the cancellations and substitutions.
 
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keesje
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:00 am

Cedric13 wrote:
So I just got information that BA is indeed planning to introduce the Dreamliner on the Beirut route starting September-October. (Source at the airport)


Great to see Beirut needing the higher capacity!
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
SteelChair
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:44 pm

BA is no different than 30 other airlines......the A321 is too small and B787/A330 too big for the mid-sized market. No modern plane is available and this is discussed continually.

MOM that won't appear before 2025 at the earliest and more likely 2026-27, IF the manufacturers figure out a way to build one cheaply enough to stimulate actual orders and get beyond the talking stage, which appears doubtful at this point.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:51 pm

Umm how about AF?
 
Cedric13
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:52 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
Umm how about AF?

AF operates a daily b777-300er to Beirut and another b777-200er / a330-200 daily flight with some rare b787-9 appearances. So that's 2 daily flights from Paris as well as 3 weekly seasonal flights from Marseille and Nice with a320 and a321 aircraft.
 
ramzi
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:15 pm

Cedric13 wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
Umm how about AF?

AF operates a daily b777-300er to Beirut and another b777-200er / a330-200 daily flight with some rare b787-9 appearances. So that's 2 daily flights from Paris as well as 3 weekly seasonal flights from Marseille and Nice with a320 and a321 aircraft.


And they have code shared with ME for as long as I remember, bringing their total flights to 3 daily in the winter and 4 daily in the summer. ME operates A330s on that route without exception. Definitely one of the busiest routes for BEY, with Transavia and Aigle Azur also operating year round now. Plenty of the AF/ME traffic is connecting, giving BA an opportunity to steal some of that and direct it through LHR. AF offers Premium Economy, and right now they don't have any competition in that class.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
raffik
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:41 pm

Just as an aside, BA operates wide bodied service to Beirut when the war first finished in the early to mid 90s with the 767.

When the service was handed down to British Mediterranean, it went to an A320 and then A321 with BMED.

The 787 could be filled I’m guessing but it’s a shame they don’t have anything slightly smaller to operate during winter when capacity lowers. Even MEA use their smaller A320s occasionally on double daily to London. BA wouldn’t really be able to send anything smaller as they will be in that tight short haul configuration A321.

I’m waiting to see what happens. I’m really hoping for the 787 at Beirut but having spoken to a BA friend of mine, he says there’s no reason that BA couldn’t send the short haul config’d A321s to Beirut.
Similar to Lufthansa.
- Alec
 
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stl07
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:32 am

So is Jordan getting a Dreamliner too?
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
raffik
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:01 am

stl07 wrote:
So is Jordan getting a Dreamliner too?


Amman will get the euro configured A320 according to sources here.

For a long time Amman was an add on to Beirut, it took a while for it to get a direct service. I’m guessing RJ are happy to pick up the business
- Alec
 
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reidar76
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:18 am

I'm not sure these routes qualify as "mid-haul", even thought BA might use that term. They are all shorter than US trancon, where the A321 over the years has replaced almost all widebody aircraft.

The longest route discussed in this tread is to Amman, less than 2000 nm and with a flight time of approximately 5 hours from LHR. The shortest is to Moscow, 1370 nm and less than 4 hours.

The BA 787-8 is configured with 214 seats, that is an optimized configuration for high premium demand going long haul. Several people in this tread mentions the possible Boeing 797, an aircraft that, according to Boeing, will seat between 225 and 270 passengers over 5000 nm. The 797 will have limited cargo capabilities, an important point in order to maintain narrowbody economics.

Business travelers do value frequency. On these so called BA "mid-haul" routes the A321 should be a very good match. Fully flat business seats is not that important over these relatively short daytime flights. The reasons for BA to use widebody aircraft on these routes are, probably, one or more of the following: 1) congestion at LHR, higher frequency not possible, 2) cargo demand on these routes are high, 3) increase utilization of widebody fleet, taking advantage of otherwise idle aircraft, 4) it might be an interim solution, awaiting the new A321neo that will arrive in numbers next year.

Using the same premium economy seats as on the 787, the A321 can take these seats in a efficient 5 abreast layout.
 
ramzi
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:31 am

reidar76 wrote:
I'm not sure these routes qualify as "mid-haul", even thought BA might use that term. They are all shorter than US trancon, where the A321 over the years has replaced almost all widebody aircraft.

The longest route discussed in this tread is to Amman, less than 2000 nm and with a flight time of approximately 5 hours from LHR. The shortest is to Moscow, 1370 nm and less than 4 hours.

The BA 787-8 is configured with 214 seats, that is an optimized configuration for high premium demand going long haul. Several people in this tread mentions the possible Boeing 797, an aircraft that, according to Boeing, will seat between 225 and 270 passengers over 5000 nm. The 797 will have limited cargo capabilities, an important point in order to maintain narrowbody economics.

Business travelers do value frequency. On these so called BA "mid-haul" routes the A321 should be a very good match. Fully flat business seats is not that important over these relatively short daytime flights. The reasons for BA to use widebody aircraft on these routes are, probably, one or more of the following: 1) congestion at LHR, higher frequency not possible, 2) cargo demand on these routes are high, 3) increase utilization of widebody fleet, taking advantage of otherwise idle aircraft, 4) it might be an interim solution, awaiting the new A321neo that will arrive in numbers next year.

Using the same premium economy seats as on the 787, the A321 can take these seats in a efficient 5 abreast layout.


Correct, AMM is the longest route under discussion, and AMM-LHR typically takes a little over 5 hours of flight time. When you start to consider the high chance of being put in a holding pattern at Heathrow, the early boarding done on these flights due to additional security, an the sometimes significant taxi time to the gate at LHR, you are suddenly spending close to 7 hours in the aircraft. When you fly on a transcon route in the US, you can get to your airport an hour before the flight and boarding is fast, it is highly uncommon to be put in a holding pattern of any significance and you walk straight out the gate and to the street. There is a substantial difference in the overall flight experience here, and more importantly the factual duration. Also, the A321s used by American (for example) on transcon routes are actually even more generous in space and comfort than BA's midhaul product, they have 4 classes and a superior business class product to BA's Club World. Of course, lie-flats are not so important on these routes, but a premium economy option, in the opinion of many, is.

While BA is getting away with an A320 on the AMM route, I doubt they can do the same in BEY. There are so many convenient pathways for connections from BEY on SkyTeam and Star Alliance, and passengers would readily chose an ME A320 over a BA short haul configured A320. But aside from that, the benefit BA get from operating a 787 is added revenue, they will fill it easily during the summer and the winter holidays too, that does leave some down time where frankly dropping one weekly frequency would even things out.
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MIflyer12
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Re: BA 767/A321 replacement

Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:46 pm

reidar76 wrote:
They are all shorter than US trancon, where the A321 over the years has replaced almost all widebody aircraft.


321s aren't really the dominant aircraft on U.S. transcons, defined as NYC-SFO/LAX.

UA is mostly 757 EWR-SFO, with some 777s thrown in. Tomorrow shows UA with 11x 757 on EWR-LAX and just 1x 777.

DL is 5x 767, 1x A330, and 4x 757 on JFK-LAX tomorrow; SFO sees 6x 757 and 2x 767.

AS is a mix of ex-Virgin 320/321 with 9x EWR/JFK-SFO. EWR/JFK-LAX gets 8x 320 and 2x 321.

It's AA (#2 by passenger count) and B6 (#4?) that are all 321.

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