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LatinPlane
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AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:50 pm

Seasonal weekend service to Punta Cana starts November flown by AM Connect. Complements daily mainline 737 service to Santo Domingo, which is doing extremely well since it was launched.

Will also announce one more destination in Latin America this quarter.

https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/-Aeromexico-volara-a-Punta-Cana-y-tendra-codigo-compartido-con-Japan-Airlines-20180604-0025.html


Only destination previously rumored was Montevideo.
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flyingqueen
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:16 am

LatinPlane wrote:
Seasonal weekend service to Punta Cana starts November flown by AM Connect. Complements daily mainline 737 service to Santo Domingo, which is doing extremely well since it was launched.

Will also announce one more destination in Latin America this quarter.

https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/-Aeromexico-volara-a-Punta-Cana-y-tendra-codigo-compartido-con-Japan-Airlines-20180604-0025.html


Only destination previously rumored was Montevideo.


I am impressed with the speed of this new AM team. I think this is a very sensible addition as well. But, I am really surprised with this addition as I don't think many of us here thought they would look something like PUJ. I guess they think outside box now.

I wonder what the new destination will be. Some friends tell me that AM is looking to go back to Caracas. Could this be true? I also hear it can be Guayaquill.
 
abrelosojos
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:34 am

Brilliant add. Kudos to AM! They must try different things, and I am glad the team is taking on those risk. Do we know times of the flight and days of week? I was a bit a confused if it is 1/week or more? I wonder if it is going to be some weird time or good for leisure demand?

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
LatinPlane
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:10 am

I believe it will be flown Saturday and Sunday. If it works out, they will add service on Thursday and Friday.

As far as service to Guayaquil, it could be a possibility since Ecuador and Mexico have an unlimited bilateral agreement whereby Ecuador grants AM unlimited service in frequencies and should it choose to exercise the option it also has authority to fly beyond with 5th freedom rights from GYE. AM just recently upped service to UIO from 7x to 10x weekly. However, I don't think CCS stands a chance to see it return any time soon. I did hear Avior wanting to start service to MEX in the 4th quarter of this year. That will be more likely to be the case.
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abrelosojos
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:21 am

LatinPlane wrote:
I believe it will be flown Saturday and Sunday. If it works out, they will add service on Thursday and Friday.

As far as service to Guayaquil, it could be a possibility since Ecuador and Mexico have an unlimited bilateral agreement whereby Ecuador grants AM unlimited service in frequencies and should it choose to exercise the option it also has authority to fly beyond with 5th freedom rights from GYE. AM just recently upped service to UIO from 7x to 10x weekly. However, I don't think CCS stands a chance to see it return any time soon. I did hear Avior wanting to start service to MEX in the 4th quarter of this year. That will be more likely to be the case.


= Cool. Thanks. I did not know UIO had gone to 10x. That is a pretty strong build up for AM then. UIO 10x, BOG 21x, LIM 21x, and MDE 7x. As much as I'd love it, I would be shocked if it was CCS.

BTW, I hear they are looking at GIG. Thoughts on that?

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
Pu752
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:35 am

There has been meetings and rumours since last December between Aeromexico and Uruguay Government. I can see Montevideo as a good bet on this new announcements coming later this year.
 
pipeafcr
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:05 am

My bet is on CTG, they’ve had an excessive amount of charters lately
Felipe Carrillo
 
abrelosojos
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:12 am

pipeafcr wrote:
My bet is on CTG, they’ve had an excessive amount of charters lately


= CTG makes sense to me. Who flew these charters?

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
pipeafcr
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:19 am

abrelosojos wrote:
pipeafcr wrote:
My bet is on CTG, they’ve had an excessive amount of charters lately


= CTG makes sense to me. Who flew these charters?

Saludos,
Alex


AM on 737 aircraft and Interjet on 320 & 321
Last edited by pipeafcr on Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
Felipe Carrillo
 
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chepos
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:19 am

MVD seems like a long, thin route. What about VVI ? However, CTG seems like an obvious choice.
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kiramakora
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:56 am

pipeafcr wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:
pipeafcr wrote:
My bet is on CTG, they’ve had an excessive amount of charters lately


= CTG makes sense to me. Who flew these charters?

Saludos,
Alex


AM on 737 aircraft and Interjet on 320 & 321


This is not true. AM has said it does not do charters anymore. Part of the restructuring from 4 years ago.

How about San Juan, Puerto Rico? Is it not the obvious choice?
 
pipeafcr
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:14 am

kiramakora wrote:
pipeafcr wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:

= CTG makes sense to me. Who flew these charters?

Saludos,
Alex


AM on 737 aircraft and Interjet on 320 & 321


This is not true. AM has said it does not do charters anymore. Part of the restructuring from 4 years ago.

How about San Juan, Puerto Rico? Is it not the obvious choice?


That's odd cause there were two 737s @ CTG: AX-AME and N906AM I believe that was on April

and on behalf of Intejet it was AX-TEA and another A320 but not sure of the reg
Felipe Carrillo
 
LatinPlane
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:21 am

abrelosojos wrote:

= Cool. Thanks. I did not know UIO had gone to 10x. That is a pretty strong build up for AM then. UIO 10x, BOG 21x, LIM 21x, and MDE 7x. As much as I'd love it, I would be shocked if it was CCS.

BTW, I hear they are looking at GIG. Thoughts on that?

Saludos,
Alex


In my opinion, GIG sounds far fetched. AM is really averse to long-haul distance routes with little demand for premium traffic. I flew the route back when AM was flying to GIG in 2014 and while economy was about 90% full, up front was the opposite.


CTG does make sense! It could also be another Cuban beach destination perhaps? As the article states it is looking at opportunities with weekend demand. PUJ was also being flown heavily on a charter basis, so this could perhaps lead us to think that at some point in the near future CTG will be launched. CTG is booming and Colombia is a very important market for AM!

How things have have changed. I remember back in the 90s it was only LACSA that paid attention to secondary Colombian destinations on its way to CCS and Viasa was probably the only global international carrier flying to CTG on its way to SJO.
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
abrelosojos
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:30 am

[quote="pipeafcr"
That's odd cause there were two 737s @ CTG: AX-AME and N906AM I believe that was on April
[/quote]

= I just checked Flight Radar, and N906AM definitely did not make it to CTG in April. I do not know what AX-AME is. It does not show up as a registration.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
LatinPlane
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:27 pm

According to this article, Colombia is AM's most important Latin American market and the airline is studying more destinations in the country.

https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/Aeromexico-espera-movilizar-400000-pasajeros-a-Colombia-en-2018-20180517-0055.html

I would think they would be considering Cali and Cartagena.
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abrelosojos
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:48 am

Do we have any official indication of the schedule and further information on PUJ and whatever else?

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:28 am

LatinPlane wrote:
GIG sounds far fetched. AM is really averse to long-haul distance routes with little demand for premium traffic. I flew the route back when AM was flying to GIG in 2014 and while economy was about 90% full, up front was the opposite.


CTG does make sense! It could also be another Cuban beach destination perhaps? As the article states it is looking at opportunities with weekend demand. PUJ was also being flown heavily on a charter basis, so this could perhaps lead us to think that at some point in the near future CTG will be launched. CTG is booming and Colombia is a very important market for AM!

How things have have changed. I remember back in the 90s it was only LACSA that paid attention to secondary Colombian destinations on its way to CCS and Viasa was probably the only global international carrier flying to CTG on its way to SJO.

Río de Janeiro is not entirely focused for tourism.
Perhaps the MEX-GIG sector didn't work properly on AM.
Speaking about Lacsa from Costa Rica, since the 70s they stopped in Colombia on the way to Caracas.
This was the schedule in 1983:
LR SJO-PTY-BAQ-MAR-CCS. 5x weekly, 72S
LR SJO-PTY-CTG-MAR-CCS. 2x weekly, 72S
Servivensa flew CCS-CTG-SJO in the early 90s.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
flyingqueen
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:05 am

Wow. They are now announced.

Punta Cana and Liberia in Costa Rica! I am so shocked by the second choice. I cannot believe Aeromexico would open Liberia. And, wow! What do people think?

https://www.aeromexico.com/en-eu/
 
SCQ83
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:29 am

Liberia makes sense. Very popular for American/Canadian tourists and from Europe there is no non-American legacy carrier flying there. With an ever growing network in the US/CDN, connections should help. Also local Mexican tourism should be boosted with a non-stop connection; maybe the board of tourism in Costa Rica is also looking at that.
 
abrelosojos
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:26 pm

I did not see Liberia! Kudos to AM for trying new things. Wow!

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
kiramakora
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:31 pm

I am very impressed with these additions too. Finally, I see Aeromexico trying to achieve it's potential. They needed a fresh team and from what I hear they have a new aggressive team in planning led by people from North West Airlines and West Jet, and clearly are not afraid to try things. I am really genuinely surprised by Liberia though. Now up to the marketing team to make these work. I don't think many Mexican people know this destination, so completely up to marketing to make it a success.

Hats off to AM. I think PUJ and LIR are greatly good strategic additions. Mexico is a large wealthy economy so these make sense.
 
mugler
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:35 pm

LatinPlane wrote:
According to this article, Colombia is AM's most important Latin American market and the airline is studying more destinations in the country.

https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/Aeromexico-espera-movilizar-400000-pasajeros-a-Colombia-en-2018-20180517-0055.html

I would think they would be considering Cali and Cartagena.


Well they better hurry up because Interjet is also looking at those markets. They will fly to SAL but haven’t announced it yet. They were looking for personnel in SAL recently
 
abrelosojos
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:52 pm

mugler wrote:
LatinPlane wrote:
According to this article, Colombia is AM's most important Latin American market and the airline is studying more destinations in the country.

https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/Aeromexico-espera-movilizar-400000-pasajeros-a-Colombia-en-2018-20180517-0055.html

I would think they would be considering Cali and Cartagena.


Well they better hurry up because Interjet is also looking at those markets. They will fly to SAL but haven’t announced it yet. They were looking for personnel in SAL recently


= Shouldn't Interjet focus on stabilizing their finances first? Seems to be on an awful financial footing.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
kiramakora
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:45 pm

Schedules are now available:

AM 2656 MEX (0815) - LIR (1105) .....67
AM 2657 LIR (1205) - MEX (1505) .....67

AM 2654 MEX (2330) - PUJ (0610+1) ....56.
AM 2657 PUJ (1200) - MEX (1510) .....67
Last edited by kiramakora on Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
EddieDude
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:19 pm

Wow! This reminds me a bit of DL's CUN and other Caribbean destinations that are served only on Saturdays from non-hub airports in the sense that they are aiming to maximize fleet utilization. Good for AM. Maybe a trip to the beach in Costa Rica is in order?
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
dcajet
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:00 pm

Does the "2" on the flight numbers indicate these are operated by AM Connect?
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abrelosojos
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:01 pm

EddieDude wrote:
Wow! This reminds me a bit of DL's CUN and other Caribbean destinations that are served only on Saturdays from non-hub airports in the sense that they are aiming to maximize fleet utilization. Good for AM. Maybe a trip to the beach in Costa Rica is in order?


= Ya. Haha. I was just thinking exactly of this. You have 1 part DL's ownership of 49% combined with 1 part of a really good team from NorthWest and WestJet who both were champions of weekend flying. I expect more unexpected choices coming from them soon. I really maintain that this is fundamentally a brilliant add that changes AM's perception and that it is willing to take risks. But then again, in some ways, it should not be a surprise. Their CCO Anko van Der Werff is one of the best in the business. Colin Aandahl was a force at NorthWest, and Arik De is one of the best upcoming names in the industry. It is a dream team, and expect more.

I think far more than a BCN, these are the things AM really should be experimenting with.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
EddieDude
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:26 pm

Wow, thanks for the data Alex.

In terms of Latin American destinations, I really hope we get to see AM back at GIG soon. And if more weekend-only flights are on the cards, perhaps we will see something like SJU or CTG soon.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:00 pm

Pu752 wrote:
There has been meetings and rumours since last December between Aeromexico and Uruguay Government. I can see Montevideo as a good bet on this new announcements coming later this year.

Montevidedo's a destination not served by many airlines, like Asuncion and La Paz in Bolivia also.For being national capitals, these cities have quite a low number of airlines serving it. All Im saying is, there could be some untapped (business and tourist) material on those cities.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:01 pm

Not seeing how, but AM has never served SJU. The Puerto Rican in me can dream...
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:02 pm

EddieDude wrote:
Wow, thanks for the data Alex.
SJU

I wish...
 
ktarabay98
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:21 pm

A MEX-SJU route can be a very sucessful route if Puerto Rico makes an aggresive and consistent marketing around Mexico and even promoting AM’s downline.

When Mexicana operated MEX-SJU in late 90s, it didn’t last long because of low demand as the PR Tourism Company didn’t make enough effort to make secure that the route is profitable.

As the new PR DMO executives said, the PRTC always only focused on promoting PR on the US East Coast and the promotion on the rest of USA, Canada, Latin America and Europe is little.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:56 pm

ktarabay98 wrote:
A MEX-SJU route can be a very sucessful route if Puerto Rico makes an aggresive and consistent marketing around Mexico and even promoting AM’s downline.

When Mexicana operated MEX-SJU in late 90s, it didn’t last long because of low demand as the PR Tourism Company didn’t make enough effort to make secure that the route is profitable.

As the new PR DMO executives said, the PRTC always only focused on promoting PR on the US East Coast and the promotion on the rest of USA, Canada, Latin America and Europe is little.


Not only the PRTC , but also PRG, as in Pedro Rossello Gonzalez, the Puerto Rican governor at the time, as he is pro-statehood, Puerto Rico's marketing was geared towards the USA more than anything else during his era as governor, which happened to be the 1990s as well.

This is always true: when a PNP governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is marketed almost exclusively to the United States (tourists and businesses). PNP is pro-statehood. When a PPD governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is more marketed towards the other Latin American countries, Spain and the rest of Europe. The PPD is pro status quo and thus decidedly more interested in other Latin American tourists and businesses in the area.

Mexicana actually ran a profitable route to San Juan from 1970. I even saw their DC-10-15 landing there a few times (cause of the high-low airport thing I believe) but mostly it was Boeing 727s daily...ahh the times. That all started to change with Rossello at the helm of course (when Avianca also left, and Varig, Ladeco and Aerolineas Argentinas tried but left not too long after etoo)-the latter airlines after being wooed by the PPD governor Rafael Hernandez Colon, who was governor until 1993.
 
ktarabay98
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:12 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
ktarabay98 wrote:
A MEX-SJU route can be a very sucessful route if Puerto Rico makes an aggresive and consistent marketing around Mexico and even promoting AM’s downline.

When Mexicana operated MEX-SJU in late 90s, it didn’t last long because of low demand as the PR Tourism Company didn’t make enough effort to make secure that the route is profitable.

As the new PR DMO executives said, the PRTC always only focused on promoting PR on the US East Coast and the promotion on the rest of USA, Canada, Latin America and Europe is little.


Not only the PRTC , but also PRG, as in Pedro Rossello Gonzalez, the Puerto Rican governor at the time, as he is pro-statehood, Puerto Rico's marketing was geared towards the USA more than anything else during his era as governor, which happened to be the 1990s as well.

This is always true: when a PNP governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is marketed almost exclusively to the United States (tourists and businesses). PNP is pro-statehood. When a PPD governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is more marketed towards the other Latin American countries, Spain and the rest of Europe. The PPD is pro status quo and thus decidedly more interested in other Latin American tourists and businesses in the area.

Mexicana actually ran a profitable route to San Juan from 1970. I even saw their DC-10-15 landing there a few times (cause of the high-low airport thing I believe) but mostly it was Boeing 727s daily...ahh the times. That all started to change with Rossello at the helm of course (when Avianca also left, and Varig, Ladeco and Aerolineas Argentinas tried but left not too long after etoo)-the latter airlines after being wooed by the PPD governor Rafael Hernandez Colon, who was governor until 1993.


The international carriers exodous in SJU started in late 80s when RHC still was PR’s governor, for many reason such as the Gulf War (which the fuel price increased drastically), American Airlines SJU hub monopoly, political changes, goverment’s neglet and laziness, the dissapearance of the 936, the Puerto Rico debt crisis but more specifical, the PR’s destination promotions was always in the PR’s gov’t hands, the lack of an permanent marketing brand, and poor international promotions.

Like you said, the PPD are more internationals in Puerto Rico’s marketing than the PNP, but the PPD also promotes more in the USA than in the other countries.

Many people says that PR can’t have many international carriers due that PR doesn’t has all-inclusive resorts and is an expensive destination, but it’s not an excuse.

In the Caribbean and others destinations near Puerto Rico has some destination like St. Maarten, T&T, and Costa Rica, who they don’t have all-inclusive resorts and are expensives like PR and they has more European and Latin American nonstop routes with high sucess and with many frecuencies.

Santo Domingo, the DR’s capital, doesn’t have beaches like San Juan, or all-inclusive resorts and they have more European and LatAm direct routes, with SDQ-MAD operating twice daily with IB and UX, plus daily Avianca and Aeromexico flights, Condor (with Munich nonstop fight), TUI Belgium, and multiple French carriers (Air France and Air Caraibes) serving Paris-SDQ direct flights.
 
guyanam
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:37 pm

It is a fallacy to say that all that exists in the Caribbean are all inclusives. There are those tourists who want a cheap vacation and there are others who want a quality experience and are willing to pay for it. PR certainly has the ability to offer the latter.

I am not aware that Hawaii is a big all inclusive destination and yet it attracts large numbers of tourists. SJU could have also attracted some of the hub business (commercial and financial sectors) that MIA and PTY now get. Had this happened then maybe their role as an airline hub wouldn't have completely collapsed.

Maybe the horse has now escaped the barn and its too late, but SJU should have aimed to be a hub connecting Europe and North America with secondary destinations in the Caribbean, Central America and the northern parts of South America. It is American and yet its also a Latin American and Caribbean nation, and so shouldn't have played to both arenas.
 
ktarabay98
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:18 pm

guyanam wrote:
It is a fallacy to say that all that exists in the Caribbean are all inclusives. There are those tourists who want a cheap vacation and there are others who want a quality experience and are willing to pay for it. PR certainly has the ability to offer the latter.

I am not aware that Hawaii is a big all inclusive destination and yet it attracts large numbers of tourists. SJU could have also attracted some of the hub business (commercial and financial sectors) that MIA and PTY now get. Had this happened then maybe their role as an airline hub wouldn't have completely collapsed.

Maybe the horse has now escaped the barn and its too late, but SJU should have aimed to be a hub connecting Europe and North America with secondary destinations in the Caribbean, Central America and the northern parts of South America. It is American and yet its also a Latin American and Caribbean nation, and so shouldn't have played to both arenas.


I did not said that PR has all-inclusive, and it’s true that PR lacks of all-inclusive. The point is that there are some other destinations in the Caribbean that lacks of all-inclusive and there has more European and LatAm routes than San Juan.

In my opinion, there is still a chance of SJU becoming an pax hub again if we make agressive promotions or at least reinstalling the TWOV or ITI.
 
EddieDude
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:21 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
Montevidedo's a destination not served by many airlines, like Asuncion and La Paz in Bolivia

MVD is long and very thin. Even a 788 (AM's smallest widebody) would be too much plane for the route. Maybe it'd have to be 3x weekly. There might be a business component because Uruguay is a preferred tax jurisdiction where many major Latin corporations have set up subsidiaries to hold their IP or so (although this is changing due to BEPS at least in the case of Mexico and Chile), but most of the traffic would be leisure and V.F.R. I don't think AM has appetite for such a route.

ASU and LPB are non-starters. If Bolivia were to be chosen, it would have to be VVI (Santa Cruz), but not LPB. Even VVI is a non-starter.

So, the LIR announcement has solved the mystery, but if AM were to start an additional new route in Latin America, I would say they are returning to GIG. Don't hold your breath.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:37 am

flyingqueen wrote:
Punta Cana and Liberia in Costa Rica! I am so shocked by the second choice. I cannot believe Aeromexico would open Liberia. And, wow! What do people think?

Welcome AeroMexico to my former hometown: Liberia !
As a permanent Costa Rican resident, I would say that Liberia is basically a leisure destination for Americans and Canadians on beach holidays.
Their flights from abroad primarily come from MIA, IAH, HOU, DFW, EWR, LAX, BOS, ORD, ATL, YYZ, YUL and so forth.
Most of these flights only operate during the weekend, like the proposed AM MEX-LIR 2x weekly.
Some of them are only valid on a seasonal basis. This will not be the case for AeroMexico.
On the other hand, CM PTY-LIR and AV SAL-LIR are operating with very limited weekly frequencies.
Even Copa Airlines couldn’t catch a sizable chunk of passengers coming from Brazil, Argentina and Chile, trying to spend some beach vacations in Guanacaste province.
Having said that, the market looks like too thin from the very beginning for Mexicans.
More than 95% of the LIR travelers are foreigners.
Good luck, AeroMexico !

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
dcajet
Posts: 4773
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:59 am

Is this a move by AM to capture some of the US-sourced traffic to PUJ and LIR (like the west coast) or catering to Mexican travelers? If the latter, how robust is that traffic? Without previous knowledge it'd seem with Mexico having world class resorts/beaches on 2 oceans... Is there an added "cachet" that comes with vacationing at a resort in the Caribbean/Central America?
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4323
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:18 am

dcajet wrote:
Is this a move by AM to capture some of the US-sourced traffic to PUJ and LIR (like the west coast) or catering to Mexican travelers? If the latter, how robust is that traffic? Without previous knowledge it'd seem with Mexico having world class resorts/beaches on 2 oceans... Is there an added "cachet" that comes with vacationing at a resort in the Caribbean/Central America?


= Brasil has the same, but people still go to CUN and PUJ. Cache.

BTW, a good source tells me they are looking into SJU, HNL, and YEG.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:54 pm

ktarabay98 wrote:
[I did not said that PR has all-inclusive, and it’s true that PR lacks of all-inclusive. The point is that there are some other destinations in the Caribbean that lacks of all-inclusive and there has more European and LatAm routes than San Juan.

In my opinion, there is still a chance of SJU becoming an pax hub again if we make agressive promotions or at least reinstalling the TWOV or ITI.


PR does NOT need all inclusive resorts to build a tourism industry. Not every tourist wants what these resorts have on offer and in fact more upmarket visitors despise these facilities. PR being expensive cannot focus on the down market segment.

SJU will never be a hub again. That ship sailed when MIA took over that role. Only the US/BVI use SJU as a hub in a significant way. Most everyone else now has direct service to MIA and are too inaccessible from SJU to use that as an alternate.

Had SJU become a destination in its own right it would have had volumes to encourage a broad range of feeder flights, this being the case for MIA and for PTY. But there was almost 100% focus on the US market while SoFL was massively involved in attracting tourists from Europe and Latin America/Caribbean. Almost no one in the Caribbean talks about traveling to or thru SJU anymore, aside from those from the US/BVI and the DR.
 
LatinPlane
Topic Author
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:56 pm

dcajet wrote:
Is this a move by AM to capture some of the US-sourced traffic to PUJ and LIR (like the west coast) or catering to Mexican travelers? If the latter, how robust is that traffic? Without previous knowledge it'd seem with Mexico having world class resorts/beaches on 2 oceans... Is there an added "cachet" that comes with vacationing at a resort in the Caribbean/Central America?


Primarily catered for Mexican clientele. But as their website is already promoting, connections are already being sold to these new destinations from the US west coast.
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7273
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:05 pm

ktarabay98 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
ktarabay98 wrote:
A MEX-SJU route can be a very sucessful route if Puerto Rico makes an aggresive and consistent marketing around Mexico and even promoting AM’s downline.

When Mexicana operated MEX-SJU in late 90s, it didn’t last long because of low demand as the PR Tourism Company didn’t make enough effort to make secure that the route is profitable.

As the new PR DMO executives said, the PRTC always only focused on promoting PR on the US East Coast and the promotion on the rest of USA, Canada, Latin America and Europe is little.


Not only the PRTC , but also PRG, as in Pedro Rossello Gonzalez, the Puerto Rican governor at the time, as he is pro-statehood, Puerto Rico's marketing was geared towards the USA more than anything else during his era as governor, which happened to be the 1990s as well.

This is always true: when a PNP governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is marketed almost exclusively to the United States (tourists and businesses). PNP is pro-statehood. When a PPD governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is more marketed towards the other Latin American countries, Spain and the rest of Europe. The PPD is pro status quo and thus decidedly more interested in other Latin American tourists and businesses in the area.

Mexicana actually ran a profitable route to San Juan from 1970. I even saw their DC-10-15 landing there a few times (cause of the high-low airport thing I believe) but mostly it was Boeing 727s daily...ahh the times. That all started to change with Rossello at the helm of course (when Avianca also left, and Varig, Ladeco and Aerolineas Argentinas tried but left not too long after etoo)-the latter airlines after being wooed by the PPD governor Rafael Hernandez Colon, who was governor until 1993.


The international carriers exodous in SJU started in late 80s when RHC still was PR’s governor, for many reason such as the Gulf War (which the fuel price increased drastically), American Airlines SJU hub monopoly, political changes, goverment’s neglet and laziness, the dissapearance of the 936, the Puerto Rico debt crisis but more specifical, the PR’s destination promotions was always in the PR’s gov’t hands, the lack of an permanent marketing brand, and poor international promotions.

Like you said, the PPD are more internationals in Puerto Rico’s marketing than the PNP, but the PPD also promotes more in the USA than in the other countries.

Many people says that PR can’t have many international carriers due that PR doesn’t has all-inclusive resorts and is an expensive destination, but it’s not an excuse.

In the Caribbean and others destinations near Puerto Rico has some destination like St. Maarten, T&T, and Costa Rica, who they don’t have all-inclusive resorts and are expensives like PR and they has more European and Latin American nonstop routes with high sucess and with many frecuencies.

Santo Domingo, the DR’s capital, doesn’t have beaches like San Juan, or all-inclusive resorts and they have more European and LatAm direct routes, with SDQ-MAD operating twice daily with IB and UX, plus daily Avianca and Aeromexico flights, Condor (with Munich nonstop fight), TUI Belgium, and multiple French carriers (Air France and Air Caraibes) serving Paris-SDQ direct flights.


Spain - DR is a large market mostly due to the Dominican diaspora in the Iberian peninsula , there is also communities in France, Italy and other European countries. There is also European investment in the DR, much more than in Puerto Rico. The Dominican economy is growing, the Puerto Rican economy is shrinking (fast). Back on topic, If Volaris could not make SJU work what makes you think AM could.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7273
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:16 pm

dcajet wrote:
Is this a move by AM to capture some of the US-sourced traffic to PUJ and LIR (like the west coast) or catering to Mexican travelers? If the latter, how robust is that traffic? Without previous knowledge it'd seem with Mexico having world class resorts/beaches on 2 oceans... Is there an added "cachet" that comes with vacationing at a resort in the Caribbean/Central America?


I would think that with the plethora of connecting opportunities offered by US carriers to PUJ they would have to sell very cheap connections to capture US point of sale. I’m thinking this flight is catering mostly to Mexicans wanting a quick cheap Caribbean holiday.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
ktarabay98
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:42 pm

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:37 pm

chepos wrote:
ktarabay98 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:

Not only the PRTC , but also PRG, as in Pedro Rossello Gonzalez, the Puerto Rican governor at the time, as he is pro-statehood, Puerto Rico's marketing was geared towards the USA more than anything else during his era as governor, which happened to be the 1990s as well.

This is always true: when a PNP governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is marketed almost exclusively to the United States (tourists and businesses). PNP is pro-statehood. When a PPD governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is more marketed towards the other Latin American countries, Spain and the rest of Europe. The PPD is pro status quo and thus decidedly more interested in other Latin American tourists and businesses in the area.

Mexicana actually ran a profitable route to San Juan from 1970. I even saw their DC-10-15 landing there a few times (cause of the high-low airport thing I believe) but mostly it was Boeing 727s daily...ahh the times. That all started to change with Rossello at the helm of course (when Avianca also left, and Varig, Ladeco and Aerolineas Argentinas tried but left not too long after etoo)-the latter airlines after being wooed by the PPD governor Rafael Hernandez Colon, who was governor until 1993.


The international carriers exodous in SJU started in late 80s when RHC still was PR’s governor, for many reason such as the Gulf War (which the fuel price increased drastically), American Airlines SJU hub monopoly, political changes, goverment’s neglet and laziness, the dissapearance of the 936, the Puerto Rico debt crisis but more specifical, the PR’s destination promotions was always in the PR’s gov’t hands, the lack of an permanent marketing brand, and poor international promotions.

Like you said, the PPD are more internationals in Puerto Rico’s marketing than the PNP, but the PPD also promotes more in the USA than in the other countries.

Many people says that PR can’t have many international carriers due that PR doesn’t has all-inclusive resorts and is an expensive destination, but it’s not an excuse.

In the Caribbean and others destinations near Puerto Rico has some destination like St. Maarten, T&T, and Costa Rica, who they don’t have all-inclusive resorts and are expensives like PR and they has more European and Latin American nonstop routes with high sucess and with many frecuencies.

Santo Domingo, the DR’s capital, doesn’t have beaches like San Juan, or all-inclusive resorts and they have more European and LatAm direct routes, with SDQ-MAD operating twice daily with IB and UX, plus daily Avianca and Aeromexico flights, Condor (with Munich nonstop fight), TUI Belgium, and multiple French carriers (Air France and Air Caraibes) serving Paris-SDQ direct flights.


Spain - DR is a large market mostly due to the Dominican diaspora in the Iberian peninsula , there is also communities in France, Italy and other European countries. There is also European investment in the DR, much more than in Puerto Rico. The Dominican economy is growing, the Puerto Rican economy is shrinking (fast). Back on topic, If Volaris could not make SJU work what makes you think AM could.


I think MEX-SJU could work more than CUN-SJU. CUN is a very touristic destination and doesn’t attract visitors to Puerto Rico. Is a route that can only work on summer season. MEX attracts more Puerto Ricans visitors, plus Mexican people who visit to Puerto Rico. In tourism fairs at Europa I have compared DR’s stand with PR’s stand. DR, Cuba, Jamaica, Bahamas, Aruba, St. Maarten always had their stand with color, identity, and many food and music. The PR one is always insipid, lacks of identity, and gets theme without sense (example: In a Fitur event, Puerto Rico got a theme about movies and the stand called Puerto Rico La Isla del Cine). Sometimes, PR doesn’t assist on other European fair. However, in fairs at US East Coast cities, PR appears as one of the coolest stand with colors, light and music.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7273
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:17 am

ktarabay98 wrote:
chepos wrote:
ktarabay98 wrote:

The international carriers exodous in SJU started in late 80s when RHC still was PR’s governor, for many reason such as the Gulf War (which the fuel price increased drastically), American Airlines SJU hub monopoly, political changes, goverment’s neglet and laziness, the dissapearance of the 936, the Puerto Rico debt crisis but more specifical, the PR’s destination promotions was always in the PR’s gov’t hands, the lack of an permanent marketing brand, and poor international promotions.

Like you said, the PPD are more internationals in Puerto Rico’s marketing than the PNP, but the PPD also promotes more in the USA than in the other countries.

Many people says that PR can’t have many international carriers due that PR doesn’t has all-inclusive resorts and is an expensive destination, but it’s not an excuse.

In the Caribbean and others destinations near Puerto Rico has some destination like St. Maarten, T&T, and Costa Rica, who they don’t have all-inclusive resorts and are expensives like PR and they has more European and Latin American nonstop routes with high sucess and with many frecuencies.

Santo Domingo, the DR’s capital, doesn’t have beaches like San Juan, or all-inclusive resorts and they have more European and LatAm direct routes, with SDQ-MAD operating twice daily with IB and UX, plus daily Avianca and Aeromexico flights, Condor (with Munich nonstop fight), TUI Belgium, and multiple French carriers (Air France and Air Caraibes) serving Paris-SDQ direct flights.


Spain - DR is a large market mostly due to the Dominican diaspora in the Iberian peninsula , there is also communities in France, Italy and other European countries. There is also European investment in the DR, much more than in Puerto Rico. The Dominican economy is growing, the Puerto Rican economy is shrinking (fast). Back on topic, If Volaris could not make SJU work what makes you think AM could.


I think MEX-SJU could work more than CUN-SJU. CUN is a very touristic destination and doesn’t attract visitors to Puerto Rico. Is a route that can only work on summer season. MEX attracts more Puerto Ricans visitors, plus Mexican people who visit to Puerto Rico. In tourism fairs at Europa I have compared DR’s stand with PR’s stand. DR, Cuba, Jamaica, Bahamas, Aruba, St. Maarten always had their stand with color, identity, and many food and music. The PR one is always insipid, lacks of identity, and gets theme without sense (example: In a Fitur event, Puerto Rico got a theme about movies and the stand called Puerto Rico La Isla del Cine). Sometimes, PR doesn’t assist on other European fair. However, in fairs at US East Coast cities, PR appears as one of the coolest stand with colors, light and music.


That’s because the (Compañia de Turismo) is run by a bunch of clowns (one which was a high school classmate of mine sacked out of his job at the govt agency for sexual harassment concerns). Limited in thinking and only look towards the mainland for potential tourist. Those positions are appointed as political favors and the individuals running it are only interested in what gain they can get from working at that agency. Hence why tourism in PR is lagging and falling further and further behind, Maria did not help either.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
ktarabay98
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:42 pm

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:59 am

chepos wrote:
ktarabay98 wrote:
chepos wrote:

Spain - DR is a large market mostly due to the Dominican diaspora in the Iberian peninsula , there is also communities in France, Italy and other European countries. There is also European investment in the DR, much more than in Puerto Rico. The Dominican economy is growing, the Puerto Rican economy is shrinking (fast). Back on topic, If Volaris could not make SJU work what makes you think AM could.


I think MEX-SJU could work more than CUN-SJU. CUN is a very touristic destination and doesn’t attract visitors to Puerto Rico. Is a route that can only work on summer season. MEX attracts more Puerto Ricans visitors, plus Mexican people who visit to Puerto Rico. In tourism fairs at Europa I have compared DR’s stand with PR’s stand. DR, Cuba, Jamaica, Bahamas, Aruba, St. Maarten always had their stand with color, identity, and many food and music. The PR one is always insipid, lacks of identity, and gets theme without sense (example: In a Fitur event, Puerto Rico got a theme about movies and the stand called Puerto Rico La Isla del Cine). Sometimes, PR doesn’t assist on other European fair. However, in fairs at US East Coast cities, PR appears as one of the coolest stand with colors, light and music.


That’s because the (Compañia de Turismo) is run by a bunch of clowns (one which was a high school classmate of mine sacked out of his job at the govt agency for sexual harassment concerns). Limited in thinking and only look towards the mainland for potential tourist. Those positions are appointed as political favors and the individuals running it are only interested in what gain they can get from working at that agency. Hence why tourism in PR is lagging and falling further and further behind, Maria did not help either.


It’s true what you said. Even the PR’s destination promotion on the Midwest and US West Coast is little or null, compared to PR’s promotion in New York and Florida where marketing are always aggresive and strong. The reason why Chicago and Texas nonstop from SJU are so successful are because of the Puertorican diaspora to these cities.
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:23 am

guyanam wrote:
ktarabay98 wrote:
[I did not said that PR has all-inclusive, and it’s true that PR lacks of all-inclusive. The point is that there are some other destinations in the Caribbean that lacks of all-inclusive and there has more European and LatAm routes than San Juan.

In my opinion, there is still a chance of SJU becoming an pax hub again if we make agressive promotions or at least reinstalling the TWOV or ITI.


PR does NOT need all inclusive resorts to build a tourism industry. Not every tourist wants what these resorts have on offer and in fact more upmarket visitors despise these facilities. PR being expensive cannot focus on the down market segment.

SJU will never be a hub again. That ship sailed when MIA took over that role. Only the US/BVI use SJU as a hub in a significant way. Most everyone else now has direct service to MIA and are too inaccessible from SJU to use that as an alternate.

Had SJU become a destination in its own right it would have had volumes to encourage a broad range of feeder flights, this being the case for MIA and for PTY. But there was almost 100% focus on the US market while SoFL was massively involved in attracting tourists from Europe and Latin America/Caribbean. Almost no one in the Caribbean talks about traveling to or thru SJU anymore, aside from those from the US/BVI and the DR.


You got that right about Caribbean Airline service lacking in Puerto Rico...in the old times PR had Air Jamaica, Air Haiti, Aero Virgin islands, BWIA, Air BVI, ALM, plus Viasa and Dominicana, both of which doubled both as a Caribbean and Latin American airlines because of their location geographically speaking, as well as a number of competing Puerto Rican airlines on the same routes.

SJU has service on LIAT, PAWA, Copa and InterCaribbean, but it could also have service ob Caribbean Airlines, on Aruba Airlines, Air Caraibes and Winair to name a couple others.
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:32 am

ktarabay98 wrote:


Santo Domingo, the DR’s capital, doesn’t have beaches like San Juan,

Actually, they do have beaches..
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: AM adds PUJ plus more Latin American destinations

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:34 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
ktarabay98 wrote:
A MEX-SJU route can be a very sucessful route if Puerto Rico makes an aggresive and consistent marketing around Mexico and even promoting AM’s downline.

When Mexicana operated MEX-SJU in late 90s, it didn’t last long because of low demand as the PR Tourism Company didn’t make enough effort to make secure that the route is profitable.

As the new PR DMO executives said, the PRTC always only focused on promoting PR on the US East Coast and the promotion on the rest of USA, Canada, Latin America and Europe is little.


Not only the PRTC , but also PRG, as in Pedro Rossello Gonzalez, the Puerto Rican governor at the time, as he is pro-statehood, Puerto Rico's marketing was geared towards the USA more than anything else during his era as governor, which happened to be the 1990s as well.

This is always true: when a PNP governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is marketed almost exclusively to the United States (tourists and businesses). PNP is pro-statehood. When a PPD governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is more marketed towards the other Latin American countries, Spain and the rest of Europe. The PPD is pro status quo and thus decidedly more interested in other Latin American tourists and businesses in the area.

Mexicana actually ran a profitable route to San Juan from 1970. I even saw their DC-10-15 landing there a few times (cause of the high-low airport thing I believe) but mostly it was Boeing 727s daily...ahh the times. That all started to change with Rossello at the helm of course (when Avianca also left, and Varig, Ladeco and Aerolineas Argentinas tried but left not too long after too)-the latter airlines after being wooed by the PPD governor Rafael Hernandez Colon, who was governor until 1993.

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