LatinPlane wrote:

Seasonal weekend service to Punta Cana starts November flown by AM Connect. Complements daily mainline 737 service to Santo Domingo, which is doing extremely well since it was launched.

Will also announce one more destination in Latin America this quarter.

https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/-Aeromexico-volara-a-Punta-Cana-y-tendra-codigo-compartido-con-Japan-Airlines-20180604-0025.html


Only destination previously rumored was Montevideo.

LatinPlane wrote:

I believe it will be flown Saturday and Sunday. If it works out, they will add service on Thursday and Friday.

As far as service to Guayaquil, it could be a possibility since Ecuador and Mexico have an unlimited bilateral agreement whereby Ecuador grants AM unlimited service in frequencies and should it choose to exercise the option it also has authority to fly beyond with 5th freedom rights from GYE. AM just recently upped service to UIO from 7x to 10x weekly. However, I don't think CCS stands a chance to see it return any time soon. I did hear Avior wanting to start service to MEX in the 4th quarter of this year. That will be more likely to be the case.

pipeafcr wrote:

My bet is on CTG, they’ve had an excessive amount of charters lately

abrelosojos wrote:

pipeafcr wrote:

My bet is on CTG, they’ve had an excessive amount of charters lately

= CTG makes sense to me. Who flew these charters?

Saludos,
Alex

pipeafcr wrote:

abrelosojos wrote:

pipeafcr wrote:

My bet is on CTG, they’ve had an excessive amount of charters lately

= CTG makes sense to me. Who flew these charters?

Saludos,
Alex

AM on 737 aircraft and Interjet on 320 & 321

kiramakora wrote:

pipeafcr wrote:

abrelosojos wrote:

= CTG makes sense to me. Who flew these charters?

Saludos,
Alex

AM on 737 aircraft and Interjet on 320 & 321

This is not true. AM has said it does not do charters anymore. Part of the restructuring from 4 years ago.

How about San Juan, Puerto Rico? Is it not the obvious choice?

abrelosojos wrote:

= Cool. Thanks. I did not know UIO had gone to 10x. That is a pretty strong build up for AM then. UIO 10x, BOG 21x, LIM 21x, and MDE 7x. As much as I'd love it, I would be shocked if it was CCS.

BTW, I hear they are looking at GIG. Thoughts on that?

Saludos,
Alex

LatinPlane wrote:

GIG sounds far fetched. AM is really averse to long-haul distance routes with little demand for premium traffic. I flew the route back when AM was flying to GIG in 2014 and while economy was about 90% full, up front was the opposite.


CTG does make sense! It could also be another Cuban beach destination perhaps? As the article states it is looking at opportunities with weekend demand. PUJ was also being flown heavily on a charter basis, so this could perhaps lead us to think that at some point in the near future CTG will be launched. CTG is booming and Colombia is a very important market for AM!

How things have have changed. I remember back in the 90s it was only LACSA that paid attention to secondary Colombian destinations on its way to CCS and Viasa was probably the only global international carrier flying to CTG on its way to SJO.

LatinPlane wrote:

According to this article, Colombia is AM's most important Latin American market and the airline is studying more destinations in the country.

https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/Aeromexico-espera-movilizar-400000-pasajeros-a-Colombia-en-2018-20180517-0055.html

I would think they would be considering Cali and Cartagena.

mugler wrote:

LatinPlane wrote:

According to this article, Colombia is AM's most important Latin American market and the airline is studying more destinations in the country.

https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/Aeromexico-espera-movilizar-400000-pasajeros-a-Colombia-en-2018-20180517-0055.html

I would think they would be considering Cali and Cartagena.

Well they better hurry up because Interjet is also looking at those markets. They will fly to SAL but haven’t announced it yet. They were looking for personnel in SAL recently

EddieDude wrote:

Wow! This reminds me a bit of DL's CUN and other Caribbean destinations that are served only on Saturdays from non-hub airports in the sense that they are aiming to maximize fleet utilization. Good for AM. Maybe a trip to the beach in Costa Rica is in order?

Pu752 wrote:

There has been meetings and rumours since last December between Aeromexico and Uruguay Government. I can see Montevideo as a good bet on this new announcements coming later this year.

EddieDude wrote:

Wow, thanks for the data Alex.
SJU

ktarabay98 wrote:

A MEX-SJU route can be a very sucessful route if Puerto Rico makes an aggresive and consistent marketing around Mexico and even promoting AM’s downline.

When Mexicana operated MEX-SJU in late 90s, it didn’t last long because of low demand as the PR Tourism Company didn’t make enough effort to make secure that the route is profitable.

As the new PR DMO executives said, the PRTC always only focused on promoting PR on the US East Coast and the promotion on the rest of USA, Canada, Latin America and Europe is little.

AntonioMartin wrote:

ktarabay98 wrote:

A MEX-SJU route can be a very sucessful route if Puerto Rico makes an aggresive and consistent marketing around Mexico and even promoting AM’s downline.

When Mexicana operated MEX-SJU in late 90s, it didn’t last long because of low demand as the PR Tourism Company didn’t make enough effort to make secure that the route is profitable.

As the new PR DMO executives said, the PRTC always only focused on promoting PR on the US East Coast and the promotion on the rest of USA, Canada, Latin America and Europe is little.

Not only the PRTC , but also PRG, as in Pedro Rossello Gonzalez, the Puerto Rican governor at the time, as he is pro-statehood, Puerto Rico's marketing was geared towards the USA more than anything else during his era as governor, which happened to be the 1990s as well.

This is always true: when a PNP governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is marketed almost exclusively to the United States (tourists and businesses). PNP is pro-statehood. When a PPD governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is more marketed towards the other Latin American countries, Spain and the rest of Europe. The PPD is pro status quo and thus decidedly more interested in other Latin American tourists and businesses in the area.

Mexicana actually ran a profitable route to San Juan from 1970. I even saw their DC-10-15 landing there a few times (cause of the high-low airport thing I believe) but mostly it was Boeing 727s daily...ahh the times. That all started to change with Rossello at the helm of course (when Avianca also left, and Varig, Ladeco and Aerolineas Argentinas tried but left not too long after etoo)-the latter airlines after being wooed by the PPD governor Rafael Hernandez Colon, who was governor until 1993.

guyanam wrote:

It is a fallacy to say that all that exists in the Caribbean are all inclusives. There are those tourists who want a cheap vacation and there are others who want a quality experience and are willing to pay for it. PR certainly has the ability to offer the latter.

I am not aware that Hawaii is a big all inclusive destination and yet it attracts large numbers of tourists. SJU could have also attracted some of the hub business (commercial and financial sectors) that MIA and PTY now get. Had this happened then maybe their role as an airline hub wouldn't have completely collapsed.

Maybe the horse has now escaped the barn and its too late, but SJU should have aimed to be a hub connecting Europe and North America with secondary destinations in the Caribbean, Central America and the northern parts of South America. It is American and yet its also a Latin American and Caribbean nation, and so shouldn't have played to both arenas.

AntonioMartin wrote:

Montevidedo's a destination not served by many airlines, like Asuncion and La Paz in Bolivia

flyingqueen wrote:

Punta Cana and Liberia in Costa Rica! I am so shocked by the second choice. I cannot believe Aeromexico would open Liberia. And, wow! What do people think?

dcajet wrote:

Is this a move by AM to capture some of the US-sourced traffic to PUJ and LIR (like the west coast) or catering to Mexican travelers? If the latter, how robust is that traffic? Without previous knowledge it'd seem with Mexico having world class resorts/beaches on 2 oceans... Is there an added "cachet" that comes with vacationing at a resort in the Caribbean/Central America?

ktarabay98 wrote:

[I did not said that PR has all-inclusive, and it’s true that PR lacks of all-inclusive. The point is that there are some other destinations in the Caribbean that lacks of all-inclusive and there has more European and LatAm routes than San Juan.

In my opinion, there is still a chance of SJU becoming an pax hub again if we make agressive promotions or at least reinstalling the TWOV or ITI.

dcajet wrote:

Is this a move by AM to capture some of the US-sourced traffic to PUJ and LIR (like the west coast) or catering to Mexican travelers? If the latter, how robust is that traffic? Without previous knowledge it'd seem with Mexico having world class resorts/beaches on 2 oceans... Is there an added "cachet" that comes with vacationing at a resort in the Caribbean/Central America?

ktarabay98 wrote:

AntonioMartin wrote:

ktarabay98 wrote:

A MEX-SJU route can be a very sucessful route if Puerto Rico makes an aggresive and consistent marketing around Mexico and even promoting AM’s downline.

When Mexicana operated MEX-SJU in late 90s, it didn’t last long because of low demand as the PR Tourism Company didn’t make enough effort to make secure that the route is profitable.

As the new PR DMO executives said, the PRTC always only focused on promoting PR on the US East Coast and the promotion on the rest of USA, Canada, Latin America and Europe is little.

Not only the PRTC , but also PRG, as in Pedro Rossello Gonzalez, the Puerto Rican governor at the time, as he is pro-statehood, Puerto Rico's marketing was geared towards the USA more than anything else during his era as governor, which happened to be the 1990s as well.

This is always true: when a PNP governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is marketed almost exclusively to the United States (tourists and businesses). PNP is pro-statehood. When a PPD governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is more marketed towards the other Latin American countries, Spain and the rest of Europe. The PPD is pro status quo and thus decidedly more interested in other Latin American tourists and businesses in the area.

Mexicana actually ran a profitable route to San Juan from 1970. I even saw their DC-10-15 landing there a few times (cause of the high-low airport thing I believe) but mostly it was Boeing 727s daily...ahh the times. That all started to change with Rossello at the helm of course (when Avianca also left, and Varig, Ladeco and Aerolineas Argentinas tried but left not too long after etoo)-the latter airlines after being wooed by the PPD governor Rafael Hernandez Colon, who was governor until 1993.

The international carriers exodous in SJU started in late 80s when RHC still was PR’s governor, for many reason such as the Gulf War (which the fuel price increased drastically), American Airlines SJU hub monopoly, political changes, goverment’s neglet and laziness, the dissapearance of the 936, the Puerto Rico debt crisis but more specifical, the PR’s destination promotions was always in the PR’s gov’t hands, the lack of an permanent marketing brand, and poor international promotions.

Like you said, the PPD are more internationals in Puerto Rico’s marketing than the PNP, but the PPD also promotes more in the USA than in the other countries.

Many people says that PR can’t have many international carriers due that PR doesn’t has all-inclusive resorts and is an expensive destination, but it’s not an excuse.

In the Caribbean and others destinations near Puerto Rico has some destination like St. Maarten, T&T, and Costa Rica, who they don’t have all-inclusive resorts and are expensives like PR and they has more European and Latin American nonstop routes with high sucess and with many frecuencies.

Santo Domingo, the DR’s capital, doesn’t have beaches like San Juan, or all-inclusive resorts and they have more European and LatAm direct routes, with SDQ-MAD operating twice daily with IB and UX, plus daily Avianca and Aeromexico flights, Condor (with Munich nonstop fight), TUI Belgium, and multiple French carriers (Air France and Air Caraibes) serving Paris-SDQ direct flights.

dcajet wrote:

Is this a move by AM to capture some of the US-sourced traffic to PUJ and LIR (like the west coast) or catering to Mexican travelers? If the latter, how robust is that traffic? Without previous knowledge it'd seem with Mexico having world class resorts/beaches on 2 oceans... Is there an added "cachet" that comes with vacationing at a resort in the Caribbean/Central America?

chepos wrote:

ktarabay98 wrote:

AntonioMartin wrote:

Not only the PRTC , but also PRG, as in Pedro Rossello Gonzalez, the Puerto Rican governor at the time, as he is pro-statehood, Puerto Rico's marketing was geared towards the USA more than anything else during his era as governor, which happened to be the 1990s as well.

This is always true: when a PNP governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is marketed almost exclusively to the United States (tourists and businesses). PNP is pro-statehood. When a PPD governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is more marketed towards the other Latin American countries, Spain and the rest of Europe. The PPD is pro status quo and thus decidedly more interested in other Latin American tourists and businesses in the area.

Mexicana actually ran a profitable route to San Juan from 1970. I even saw their DC-10-15 landing there a few times (cause of the high-low airport thing I believe) but mostly it was Boeing 727s daily...ahh the times. That all started to change with Rossello at the helm of course (when Avianca also left, and Varig, Ladeco and Aerolineas Argentinas tried but left not too long after etoo)-the latter airlines after being wooed by the PPD governor Rafael Hernandez Colon, who was governor until 1993.

The international carriers exodous in SJU started in late 80s when RHC still was PR’s governor, for many reason such as the Gulf War (which the fuel price increased drastically), American Airlines SJU hub monopoly, political changes, goverment’s neglet and laziness, the dissapearance of the 936, the Puerto Rico debt crisis but more specifical, the PR’s destination promotions was always in the PR’s gov’t hands, the lack of an permanent marketing brand, and poor international promotions.

Like you said, the PPD are more internationals in Puerto Rico’s marketing than the PNP, but the PPD also promotes more in the USA than in the other countries.

Many people says that PR can’t have many international carriers due that PR doesn’t has all-inclusive resorts and is an expensive destination, but it’s not an excuse.

In the Caribbean and others destinations near Puerto Rico has some destination like St. Maarten, T&T, and Costa Rica, who they don’t have all-inclusive resorts and are expensives like PR and they has more European and Latin American nonstop routes with high sucess and with many frecuencies.

Santo Domingo, the DR’s capital, doesn’t have beaches like San Juan, or all-inclusive resorts and they have more European and LatAm direct routes, with SDQ-MAD operating twice daily with IB and UX, plus daily Avianca and Aeromexico flights, Condor (with Munich nonstop fight), TUI Belgium, and multiple French carriers (Air France and Air Caraibes) serving Paris-SDQ direct flights.

Spain - DR is a large market mostly due to the Dominican diaspora in the Iberian peninsula , there is also communities in France, Italy and other European countries. There is also European investment in the DR, much more than in Puerto Rico. The Dominican economy is growing, the Puerto Rican economy is shrinking (fast). Back on topic, If Volaris could not make SJU work what makes you think AM could.

ktarabay98 wrote:

chepos wrote:

ktarabay98 wrote:

The international carriers exodous in SJU started in late 80s when RHC still was PR’s governor, for many reason such as the Gulf War (which the fuel price increased drastically), American Airlines SJU hub monopoly, political changes, goverment’s neglet and laziness, the dissapearance of the 936, the Puerto Rico debt crisis but more specifical, the PR’s destination promotions was always in the PR’s gov’t hands, the lack of an permanent marketing brand, and poor international promotions.

Like you said, the PPD are more internationals in Puerto Rico’s marketing than the PNP, but the PPD also promotes more in the USA than in the other countries.

Many people says that PR can’t have many international carriers due that PR doesn’t has all-inclusive resorts and is an expensive destination, but it’s not an excuse.

In the Caribbean and others destinations near Puerto Rico has some destination like St. Maarten, T&T, and Costa Rica, who they don’t have all-inclusive resorts and are expensives like PR and they has more European and Latin American nonstop routes with high sucess and with many frecuencies.

Santo Domingo, the DR’s capital, doesn’t have beaches like San Juan, or all-inclusive resorts and they have more European and LatAm direct routes, with SDQ-MAD operating twice daily with IB and UX, plus daily Avianca and Aeromexico flights, Condor (with Munich nonstop fight), TUI Belgium, and multiple French carriers (Air France and Air Caraibes) serving Paris-SDQ direct flights.

Spain - DR is a large market mostly due to the Dominican diaspora in the Iberian peninsula , there is also communities in France, Italy and other European countries. There is also European investment in the DR, much more than in Puerto Rico. The Dominican economy is growing, the Puerto Rican economy is shrinking (fast). Back on topic, If Volaris could not make SJU work what makes you think AM could.

I think MEX-SJU could work more than CUN-SJU. CUN is a very touristic destination and doesn’t attract visitors to Puerto Rico. Is a route that can only work on summer season. MEX attracts more Puerto Ricans visitors, plus Mexican people who visit to Puerto Rico. In tourism fairs at Europa I have compared DR’s stand with PR’s stand. DR, Cuba, Jamaica, Bahamas, Aruba, St. Maarten always had their stand with color, identity, and many food and music. The PR one is always insipid, lacks of identity, and gets theme without sense (example: In a Fitur event, Puerto Rico got a theme about movies and the stand called Puerto Rico La Isla del Cine). Sometimes, PR doesn’t assist on other European fair. However, in fairs at US East Coast cities, PR appears as one of the coolest stand with colors, light and music.

chepos wrote:

ktarabay98 wrote:

chepos wrote:

Spain - DR is a large market mostly due to the Dominican diaspora in the Iberian peninsula , there is also communities in France, Italy and other European countries. There is also European investment in the DR, much more than in Puerto Rico. The Dominican economy is growing, the Puerto Rican economy is shrinking (fast). Back on topic, If Volaris could not make SJU work what makes you think AM could.

I think MEX-SJU could work more than CUN-SJU. CUN is a very touristic destination and doesn’t attract visitors to Puerto Rico. Is a route that can only work on summer season. MEX attracts more Puerto Ricans visitors, plus Mexican people who visit to Puerto Rico. In tourism fairs at Europa I have compared DR’s stand with PR’s stand. DR, Cuba, Jamaica, Bahamas, Aruba, St. Maarten always had their stand with color, identity, and many food and music. The PR one is always insipid, lacks of identity, and gets theme without sense (example: In a Fitur event, Puerto Rico got a theme about movies and the stand called Puerto Rico La Isla del Cine). Sometimes, PR doesn’t assist on other European fair. However, in fairs at US East Coast cities, PR appears as one of the coolest stand with colors, light and music.

That’s because the (Compañia de Turismo) is run by a bunch of clowns (one which was a high school classmate of mine sacked out of his job at the govt agency for sexual harassment concerns). Limited in thinking and only look towards the mainland for potential tourist. Those positions are appointed as political favors and the individuals running it are only interested in what gain they can get from working at that agency. Hence why tourism in PR is lagging and falling further and further behind, Maria did not help either.

guyanam wrote:

ktarabay98 wrote:

[I did not said that PR has all-inclusive, and it’s true that PR lacks of all-inclusive. The point is that there are some other destinations in the Caribbean that lacks of all-inclusive and there has more European and LatAm routes than San Juan.

In my opinion, there is still a chance of SJU becoming an pax hub again if we make agressive promotions or at least reinstalling the TWOV or ITI.

PR does NOT need all inclusive resorts to build a tourism industry. Not every tourist wants what these resorts have on offer and in fact more upmarket visitors despise these facilities. PR being expensive cannot focus on the down market segment.

SJU will never be a hub again. That ship sailed when MIA took over that role. Only the US/BVI use SJU as a hub in a significant way. Most everyone else now has direct service to MIA and are too inaccessible from SJU to use that as an alternate.

Had SJU become a destination in its own right it would have had volumes to encourage a broad range of feeder flights, this being the case for MIA and for PTY. But there was almost 100% focus on the US market while SoFL was massively involved in attracting tourists from Europe and Latin America/Caribbean. Almost no one in the Caribbean talks about traveling to or thru SJU anymore, aside from those from the US/BVI and the DR.

ktarabay98 wrote:

Santo Domingo, the DR’s capital, doesn’t have beaches like San Juan,

AntonioMartin wrote:

ktarabay98 wrote:

A MEX-SJU route can be a very sucessful route if Puerto Rico makes an aggresive and consistent marketing around Mexico and even promoting AM’s downline.

When Mexicana operated MEX-SJU in late 90s, it didn’t last long because of low demand as the PR Tourism Company didn’t make enough effort to make secure that the route is profitable.

As the new PR DMO executives said, the PRTC always only focused on promoting PR on the US East Coast and the promotion on the rest of USA, Canada, Latin America and Europe is little.

Not only the PRTC , but also PRG, as in Pedro Rossello Gonzalez, the Puerto Rican governor at the time, as he is pro-statehood, Puerto Rico's marketing was geared towards the USA more than anything else during his era as governor, which happened to be the 1990s as well.

This is always true: when a PNP governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is marketed almost exclusively to the United States (tourists and businesses). PNP is pro-statehood. When a PPD governor is at the helm, Puerto Rico is more marketed towards the other Latin American countries, Spain and the rest of Europe. The PPD is pro status quo and thus decidedly more interested in other Latin American tourists and businesses in the area.

Mexicana actually ran a profitable route to San Juan from 1970. I even saw their DC-10-15 landing there a few times (cause of the high-low airport thing I believe) but mostly it was Boeing 727s daily...ahh the times. That all started to change with Rossello at the helm of course (when Avianca also left, and Varig, Ladeco and Aerolineas Argentinas tried but left not too long after too)-the latter airlines after being wooed by the PPD governor Rafael Hernandez Colon, who was governor until 1993.