I remember a few years ago Aer Lingus had a daytime flight from JFK-DUB and was wondering if there would ever be one from BOS-DUB.

I often wondered the same thing particularly with the pending delivery of the fleet of A321LRs, but I’m not sure how well the daytime JFK-DUB flight performed as it has not been restored for the last couple of summer seasons. If JFK didn’t work for them then it is probably unlikely that EI would consider something similar for BOS but you never know. However family members of mine used it from DUB a few times and they really liked the option of the daytime return flight and late evening DUB arrival rather than the usual tiring overnight TATL flight.

Isn't the problem with a daytime BOS-DUB that there will be a lack of late evening onward connections at DUB? My perception, having flown DUB-BOS on EI is that there is quite a lot of connecting traffic on the route.
Conversely on the daytime flights to LHR (BOS-LHR, JFK-LHR, EWR-LHR, IAD-LHR, YYZ-LHR) my experience is that almost nobody is connecting onwards (virtually no connection possibilities that late at night) but that the flight can be sustained by London's massive O&D market.

To answer your question could they even fill a A32X or 752 on almost pure O&D. dumped in Dublin at or after 8pm with nowhere else to go onto bar the last Heathrow and odd seasonal overnight Mediterranean and Canary island holiday route probably not.

Right now day time flights only seem to work via Heathrow ( with huge O&D traffic) with BA/AA VS AND UA/AC all FROM/TO their respective east coast hubs - - that said they do reduce travel fatigue coming east in my experience!

And the only other flight is also into London by Norwegian into Gatwick from New York.

Day time evening arrivals at Heathrow are

BA238 BOS 1915. ONEWORLD
BA 178 JFK 1945. ONEWORLD
VS026. JFK 2010. SKYTEAM ALLIANCE VIA DELTA CODESHARE
UA934. EWK 2040 STAR ALLIANCE
UA122. IAD 2055. STAR ALILIANCE
AC868. YYZ 2100. STAR ALIANCE
AA142 JFK 2210. ONEWORLD
AA090 ORD 2245 ONEWORLD

And let’s remember VS just announced their own daytime flight BOS-LHR 2 weeks ago
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... n%20Boston

Now if they could time it right and get a super early departure from BOS, say 6am (BA and VS are closer to 8-8.30) then they might have a shot at making some of those later connections that could support the service and the 321 would likely be the aircraft best suited to providing it, whether it could be year round, i doubt it, but a summer seasonal could be viable. DL weighed in this year and the overall traffic to DUB increased I.e EI’s existing business (as sole provider on the route) did not drop, meaning that DL expanded the market and showing that there is additional lift needed in the summer season. An early day time flight would indeed be an interesting prospect for BOS-DUB and could be a counter to B6 joining the fray eventually.
Is this possible, of course, is it liable to happen? Not so sure, but with the right homework and timings it might carve a niche.

I get the sense that markets with US to EU daytime flights (BOS/JFK/IAD-LHR, etc.) work because of business demand, but maybe I am reading it wrong — is it that they get in early enough to make the Far East connections (LHR-SIN/HKG/etc.)? Ultimately, my questions are what drives morning flights? And, if it's O+D business, does BOS-DUB have enough business travel?

Why?

From what I have seen, most of the pax on daytime LHR services are connecting to overnight flights to Asia and Africa - something that is not available in DUB.

GCT64 wrote:

Conversely on the daytime flights to LHR (BOS-LHR, JFK-LHR, EWR-LHR, IAD-LHR, YYZ-LHR) my experience is that almost nobody is connecting onwards (virtually no connection possibilities that late at night) but that the flight can be sustained by London's massive O&D market.

The morning departure from BOS connects well to Africa and Asia (BOM, SIN, JNB, CPT, etc), as well as cities like MOW, TLV, ATH. Personally I have connected off of the morning flight with an overnight at a LHR hotel.

As for the original question, I feel that a morning flight works well for LHR not just because there's such a huge number of premium passengers on that market but because of LHR's slot constraints which forces BA to spread their connections thru multiple connecting banks. EI on the other hand has virtually no departures from DUB after 8PM. For that reason alone a morning flight would not work. I feel that TP more than EI would benefit from a morning departure also because of the slot constraints at LIS which like BA has forced TP to operate late night departures from LIS.

EI564 wrote:

Norwegian has started a daytime flight to Dublin from Stewart. If Stewart can work, why not Boston? Especially since EI and B6 feed each other at Boston, which would still work.

The B6 feed would be completely irrelevant for such a flight. It departs BOS too early and arrives too late for it to provide any B6 feed. NY is a significantly bigger market than BOS, I would imagine.

usflyer msp wrote:

Why?
From what I have seen, most of the pax on daytime LHR services are connecting to overnight flights to Asia and Africa - something that is not available in DUB.

Some / a few maybe but surely not "most of the pax". Most of the pax on those flights must be O&D (as is true for almost all flights at LHR, where the O&D percentage is high). I've taken quite a few day time flights into LHR (I live close by, so it works well for me) and I haven't seen many pax heading to "Flight Connections".

Norwegian has started a daytime flight to Dublin from Stewart. If Stewart can work, why not Boston? Especially since EI and B6 feed each other at Boston, which would still work.

EI564 wrote:

Norwegian has started a daytime flight to Dublin from Stewart. If Stewart can work, why not Boston? Especially since EI and B6 feed each other at Boston, which would still work.

Norwegian is almost all O&D and has a passenger profile that will travel at less optimal times in order to get a cheaper price. EI connects through DUB a large percentage of their pax to/from the US. Different business models.

The only early am TATL flight I know from BOS is the BA BOS-LHR. EK used to have an early am flight that was nipped when EK cut the 2nd flight. I have taken the early am flight several times and it's not very full but whatever I have seen and heard, the business class is pretty much full that may have kept the flight going. Pure O&D. I just do not know if there is enough LF to justify an early am flight and expecting many B6 feed passengers. Remember also DL has a seasonal flight that is still going and doing well. That is just too much capacity IMO for BOS-DUB.

MIflyer12 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Now if they could time it right and get a super early departure from BOS, say 6am (BA and VS are closer to 8-8.30) then they might have a shot at making some of those later connections...

The people with $ to support decent average fare levels don't want to leave their houses at 0200 or 0300 in the morning to catch a 6AM flight. At that time of day you get nothing but junk traffic - students and the rest of the find-the-absolute-lowest-fare crowd.

To the OP: compare NYC-LON and WAS-LON O&D to BOS-DUB O&D and I think you'll have your answer.

Eh? Not sure I agree with that, there's a reason why the first departure banks from BOS are 5am and 6am, which means you have to leave your house at that time and I fly on business on those flights as do many others. I would argue you that the junk-traffic students would not even be awake at those points.

VS4ever wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Now if they could time it right and get a super early departure from BOS, say 6am (BA and VS are closer to 8-8.30) then they might have a shot at making some of those later connections...

The people with $ to support decent average fare levels don't want to leave their houses at 0200 or 0300 in the morning to catch a 6AM flight. At that time of day you get nothing but junk traffic - students and the rest of the find-the-absolute-lowest-fare crowd.

To the OP: compare NYC-LON and WAS-LON O&D to BOS-DUB O&D and I think you'll have your answer.

Eh? Not sure I agree with that, there's a reason why the first departure banks from BOS are 5am and 6am, which means you have to leave your house at that time and I fly on business on those flights as do many others. I would argue you that the junk-traffic students would not even be awake at those points.

Hell, they haven't even gone to bed yet.

But yes, not sure why there is this "rule" on A.net that people only fly between 8am and 5pm.

DUB has daily 2 x EI A330 and a 757 DL on BOS-DUB as well as a 737 to Providence and a daily 757 to Hartford. Not sure there’s room for more Dublin to New England service.

So the most Irish city in the US couldn't support a daytime narrowbody to Ireland? That flight is only blocked at 6 hours, meaning barely over 5 hrs in the air and at most 4 hours of decent sleep onboard. Might not be as miserable as some LAX/LAS to Midwest domestic redeyes but it's close. I'd be surprised if the local market didn't appreciate a less tiring alternative.

Perhaps the current daily 2x A330 could be changed to 3x A321/757 with departures at 0700, 1800, and 2100 or thereabouts.

I see what you are saying about a 20:00 arrival in DUB but what if the flight got in at 17:30 local time would you be able to connect then. If one is willing to get up for 6:00 domestic flight why wouldn’t they get up for 7:00 international flight?

Skyblue39 wrote:

DUB has daily 2 x EI A330 and a 757 DL on BOS-DUB as well as a 737 to Providence and a daily 757 to Hartford. Not sure there’s room for more Dublin to New England service.

You would be surprised how big the demand even for O/D is. Additionally, many people on the two evening A330s from BOS are connecting and aren't O/D. I think some more capacity could be added and it would do just fine.

I've been on the daytime BOS-LHR flight twice...once in a 777 and again on the 787-9. In neither case was the plane full. Curiously (to me, anyway), BA sent the 744 on the 238/239 rotation...IN THE WINTER! I have no information on the whys & wherefores of THAT particular move, or if it'll ever be done again.

I think the influx of long-range single-aisle planes would hasten the development of those flights, as they come on board.

MIflyer12 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Now if they could time it right and get a super early departure from BOS, say 6am (BA and VS are closer to 8-8.30) then they might have a shot at making some of those later connections...

The people with $ to support decent average fare levels don't want to leave their houses at 0200 or 0300 in the morning to catch a 6AM flight. At that time of day you get nothing but junk traffic - students and the rest of the find-the-absolute-lowest-fare crowd.

To the OP: compare NYC-LON and WAS-LON O&D to BOS-DUB O&D and I think you'll have your answer.

You clearly have never flown for business.

Daytime/early AM departures from the USA side to places like DUB would almost have to be O&D with few good and reliable connecting flights from the initial departing city on the USA side in early AM (500-700) to BOS, JFK, and so on.

Even if day time flight ex NYC and Bos were full 100% it’s not a good use of the expensive asset ( the aircraft ) ... I think the plan is to use the A321LR on additional short sectors during the day time . Therefore the optimum trans Atlantic usegage is overnight Eastwards allowing additional sectors ex Dublin

chrisnh wrote:

I've been on the daytime BOS-LHR flight twice...once in a 777 and again on the 787-9. In neither case was the plane full. Curiously (to me, anyway), BA sent the 744 on the 238/239 rotation...IN THE WINTER! I have no information on the whys & wherefores of THAT particular move, or if it'll ever be done again.

I think the influx of long-range single-aisle planes would hasten the development of those flights, as they come on board.

It all depends on what 744 config they sent. Regardless, with that many F class seats it's very telling about how popular the morning departure is for premium passengers. In my experience tho, the exit row window seat on the upper deck of a BA 744 is still the best business class seat in all of BA's fleet.

Galwayman wrote:

Even if day time flight ex NYC and Bos were full 100% it’s not a good use of the expensive asset ( the aircraft ) ... I think the plan is to use the A321LR on additional short sectors during the day time . Therefore the optimum trans Atlantic usegage is overnight Eastwards allowing additional sectors ex Dublin

Bingo! This is the real reason why there are so few eastbound TATL flights. You need premium passengers to make the math work. Without them the yields are too low for such poor aircraft utilization. I know DY does it but their business model is different.

GCT64 wrote:

Isn't the problem with a daytime BOS-DUB that there will be a lack of late evening onward connections at DUB? My perception, having flown DUB-BOS on EI is that there is quite a lot of connecting traffic on the route.
Conversely on the daytime flights to LHR (BOS-LHR, JFK-LHR, EWR-LHR, IAD-LHR, YYZ-LHR) my experience is that almost nobody is connecting onwards (virtually no connection possibilities that late at night) but that the flight can be sustained by London's massive O&D market.

O&D could make such a flight work but I would expect third daily service but not a daytime flight. The daytime JFK-DUB also did well but was cancelled more for operational than financial reasons and may return in future.