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PHL dual runway takeoffs
I am here in the line of planes waiting to take off on 9l in philly—about 15 deep. Sunny great weather. Why not use both parallels for takeoff?
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- FriscoHeavy
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Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
putthoff wrote:I am here in the line of planes waiting to take off on 9l in philly—about 15 deep. Sunny great weather. Why not use both parallels for takeoff?
Because planes have to land as well......
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- flyboy7974
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Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
And if they used 9R for takeoffs it would restrict use of the intersecting runway
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- washingtonflyer
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Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
Welcome to PHL. When I've listed to ATC there, I'm noticing an uptick in the usage of 17/35 and even 8/26.
I guess the question I would have to ask is that with PHL being a large AA hub, there will be times where there is slack in the arrival flow and a surge in the departure flow. If there is a 2 or 3 minute gap in arrivals, why not use 9R while 9L is being used for depatures.
I guess the question I would have to ask is that with PHL being a large AA hub, there will be times where there is slack in the arrival flow and a surge in the departure flow. If there is a 2 or 3 minute gap in arrivals, why not use 9R while 9L is being used for depatures.
Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
NY Center also prob can't even handle dual runways take-offs from PHL with all the traffic they also have from EWR, JFK, LGA, HPN, Teterboro, etc. That whole area of airspace is so ridiculously congested.
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- GoSteelers
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Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
Not sure specifically about the distance in PHL but if two parallel runways aren’t far enough apart, they are considered the same runway for ATC purposes. Looking at a quick glimpse of the chart, I would say simultaneous departures of the 9’S are not allowed.
Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
putthoff wrote:I am here in the line of planes waiting to take off on 9l in philly—about 15 deep. Sunny great weather. Why not use both parallels for takeoff?
Only 15? What a slow day.
Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
GoSteelers wrote:Not sure specifically about the distance in PHL but if two parallel runways aren’t far enough apart, they are considered the same runway for ATC purposes. Looking at a quick glimpse of the chart, I would say simultaneous departures of the 9’S are not allowed.
Maybe it’s different for individual facilities, but IAH regularly runs simultaneous departures off of 15L and 15R when the weather is visual and those runways are closer than the 9s in Philly. Of course, IAH has three other runways for landings.
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- washingtonflyer
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Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
Heck, they basically have drag races on the "1s" for departures
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwEvUPZe-Y
There cant be more than about 800 feet of separation between 1L and 1R. At PHL, you have two entire taxiways separating the two 9/27 runways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwEvUPZe-Y
There cant be more than about 800 feet of separation between 1L and 1R. At PHL, you have two entire taxiways separating the two 9/27 runways.
Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
There's something I've always wondered about. Was going to do a thread, but I'll drop it in here.
You know how other airports have it set up when there are 2 runways on the same side of the terminal, the inner runway is used for takeoffs, the outer one for landings.
LAX, ATL, CLT, DFW, SEA, DTW, EWR, MIA, JFK, MCO
PHL uses this pattern when using the 9s...but when 27s are used, it flips. Why is this?
I remember when I was there in 1992, that planes heading from the gate area heading out to 27L would get jammed up crossing 27R. Aircraft that had just landed on 27R would have to wait for the queue to clear in order to get to their gates on D & E.
The only other airport that I know of that does it opposite is MCO (west side) if using the 36s
You know how other airports have it set up when there are 2 runways on the same side of the terminal, the inner runway is used for takeoffs, the outer one for landings.
LAX, ATL, CLT, DFW, SEA, DTW, EWR, MIA, JFK, MCO
PHL uses this pattern when using the 9s...but when 27s are used, it flips. Why is this?
I remember when I was there in 1992, that planes heading from the gate area heading out to 27L would get jammed up crossing 27R. Aircraft that had just landed on 27R would have to wait for the queue to clear in order to get to their gates on D & E.
The only other airport that I know of that does it opposite is MCO (west side) if using the 36s
Last edited by 727LOVER on Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
As others have stated, N90 probably can’t handle the dual departure traffic. Same problem at EWR.
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- CATIIIevery5yrs
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Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
What are both departures going to do when they hit MXE at the same time?
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- usairways85
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Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
PHL does not have a great taxi set up for aircraft waiting to depart, I imagine trying to depart on both runways creates a little bit of a tetris game.
Also winds today are blowing 10-15 kts with gusts between 20-25 so not exactly a calm day.
Also winds today are blowing 10-15 kts with gusts between 20-25 so not exactly a calm day.
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- Thenoflyzone
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Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
727LOVER wrote:There's something I've always wondered about. Was going to do a thread, but I'll drop it in here.
You know how other airports have it set up when there are 2 runways on the same side of the terminal, the inner runway is used for takeoffs, the outer one for landings.
LAX, ATL, CLT, DFW, SEA, DTW, EWR, MIA, JFK, MCO
PHL uses this pattern when using the 9s...but when 27s are used, it flips. Why is this?
Good question. Here is the answer.
It has to do with what you can and can't do with closely spaced parallel runways, especially in bad weather.
The only way PHL can depart on 1 runway and arrive on the other parallel runway simultaneously is if the landing is happening on the nearer runway and the departure from the further runway.
Runway thresholds need to be staggered with parallel runways less than 2500 ft apart to enable this. The rule states that the landing must happen on the closest threshold and the departure from the furthest one. For every 100ft below 2500 ft, runway thresholds need to be staggered by 500 ft. If you go on Google Earth and measure the stagger at PHL, you'll notice it perfectly respects this rule.
Same reason why DXB staggered it's runways several years ago. They used to be side by side runways in the early 2000s.
Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
Thenoflyzone wrote:Runway thresholds need to be staggered with parallel runways less than 2500 ft apart to enable this. The rule states that the landing must happen on the closest threshold and the departure from the furthest one. For every 100ft below 2500 ft, runway thresholds need to be staggered by 500 ft.
Guess you must be talking about some sort of instrument operations. No such rule for visual approaches, of course.
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- jetsetter629
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Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
Flew out of PHL today (my home airport) at 11 am, which you'd think would be a quiet time, and again took 45 mins to depart from 9L...for a 45 min flight to PIT none the less
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- usairways85
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Re: PHL dual runway takeoffs
jetsetter629 wrote:Flew out of PHL today (my home airport) at 11 am, which you'd think would be a quiet time, and again took 45 mins to depart from 9L...for a 45 min flight to PIT none the less
AA's PHL hub is a banked hub so not sure when you mean by 11am expected to be a quiet time. Whenever AA schedules it's banks, the airport will be very busy.
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