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LAXintl
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Frontier Airlines announces 15 new routes

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:19 pm

Frontier Airlines to make "major announcement" at Ontario International Airport regarding new transcontinental air service.

Participants will include Josh Flyr, senior vice president - commercial, and Alan D. Wapner, president of the Ontario International Airport Authority.

http://files.constantcontact.com/8729c8 ... 94c23b.pdf

=

Let see what they come up with. :scratchchin:
Last edited by atcsundevil on Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
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msycajun
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:40 pm

Seeing a nonstop ONT-MCO so far. Whatever else there is is probably already loaded.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:46 pm

Hearing F9 is not happy with LGB.
They asked for 6 slots.
But LGB offering them 2 slots with the opportunity to try for more in a lottery.
Rumor has it they walked away from returning to LGB and decided to double down on ONT.
Congratulations to ONT for increasing service.

flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:49 pm

Schedule for MCO-ONT / ONT-MCO: Starts August 12, 2018

MCO-ONT: F9 flight 1215 | 9:27 PM - 11:30 PM (5h 03m) - Airbus A320
ONT-MCO: F9 flight 1212 | 12:59 AM - 8:47 AM (4h 48m) - Airbus A320
 
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FA9295
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:56 pm

flyfresno wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
FA9295 wrote:
Schedule for MCO-ONT / ONT-MCO: Starts August 12, 2018

MCO-ONT: F9 flight 1215 | 9:27 PM - 11:30 PM (5h 03m) - Airbus A320
ONT-MCO: F9 flight 1212 | 12:59 AM - 8:47 AM (4h 48m) - Airbus A320


Daily?

Appears to be.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:58 pm

I believe they are announcing other routes from other stations as well today
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flyfresno
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:04 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
FA9295 wrote:
Schedule for MCO-ONT / ONT-MCO: Starts August 12, 2018

MCO-ONT: F9 flight 1215 | 9:27 PM - 11:30 PM (5h 03m) - Airbus A320
ONT-MCO: F9 flight 1212 | 12:59 AM - 8:47 AM (4h 48m) - Airbus A320


Daily?
 
flyfresno
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:07 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
I believe they are announcing other routes from other stations as well today



FAT now showing service through November...I believe it used to stop after summer?
 
msycajun
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:40 pm

 
usairways85
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:47 pm

High level frequency breakdown:
15 new routes
10 - 2x weekly
3 - 3x weekly
1 - 4x weekly
1 - daily
 
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flymco753
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:56 pm

I expect MSP-CHS to fail.
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:14 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I expect MSP-CHS to fail.


Probably but its nice to see them try. The beauty of running an LCC is the low cost of starting and cancelling a route. It allows for a lot of experimentation at a "relatively" low cost.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:19 pm

"Conversely, Frontier is suspending eight routes as part of the schedule update. Frontier said it expected the suspensions to be seasonal, though it was not clear if all would resume. Some of the nine seasonal routes are ending as previously scheduled, though others are being pulled down earlier than expected."

"SUSPENDED ROUTES

Cleveland
Phoenix: Ends Aug. 9
Seattle: Ends Aug. 11

San Diego
Colorado Springs: Ends Aug. 9
Oklahoma City: Ends Aug. 11
Tulsa: Ends Aug. 9

Cincinnati
Philadelphia: Ends Aug. 10
Phoenix: Ends Aug. 11

Philadelphia
Cincinnati: Ends Aug. 10
Grand Rapids: Ends Aug. 10"

https://www.12news.com/article/news/nation-now/frontier-announces-15-new-routes-suspends-8-in-schedule-update/465-5e5ff530-7191-4cde-9cc8-e0db6010d249
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:21 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I expect MSP-CHS to fail.


Probably but its nice to see them try. The beauty of running an LCC is the low cost of starting and cancelling a route. It allows for a lot of experimentation at a "relatively" low cost.


I have frequently seen numbers posted on this forum of the number of passengers between cities. Do we suppose that FL might browse that same data, and launch routes that target those city pairs as opposed to the allegations made on this board that FL “throws darts at a map”?
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:25 pm

ONT event is at 1130am.

I cant see a VP attend in person for a measly single MCO route announcements.
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klakzky123
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:25 pm

AirFiero wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I expect MSP-CHS to fail.


Probably but its nice to see them try. The beauty of running an LCC is the low cost of starting and cancelling a route. It allows for a lot of experimentation at a "relatively" low cost.


I have frequently seen numbers posted on this forum of the number of passengers between cities. Do we suppose that FL might browse that same data, and launch routes that target those city pairs as opposed to the allegations made on this board that FL “throws darts at a map”?


I think they do quite a bit more research than anyone gives them credit for. They're not stupid and F9 is making solid money. However, since they can start and cancel routes for less than most carriers, they're able to try more unconventional routes. Whereas most people here approach route profitability the way a full service carrier does.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:27 pm

Call me crazy, but it seems F9 is filling the European-style ULCC niche (less than daily, often seasonal services in many cases) in the North American realm quite well. Of course there is some overlap when it comes to the American ULCCs, but I'd say NK tends to focus more on primary/major markets and trunk routes, while G4 tends to focus more on rural markets and decidedly secondary airports.

NK may be the first thing that comes to mind when Americans think cheap fares, but that carrier just doesn't seem interested in mid-size metropolitan area markets like GEG, MKE, ONT, ORF, YYC, etc. where F9 seems to be doing pretty well. $69 to fly between LAS and ORF?!? I wonder if WN ever had fares that low on that route. While the no-frills service model certainly doesn't suit everyone, it's exciting to see that we finally have a Ryanair-esque airline in the U.S.!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
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flymco753
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:36 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:

Probably but its nice to see them try. The beauty of running an LCC is the low cost of starting and cancelling a route. It allows for a lot of experimentation at a "relatively" low cost.


I have frequently seen numbers posted on this forum of the number of passengers between cities. Do we suppose that FL might browse that same data, and launch routes that target those city pairs as opposed to the allegations made on this board that FL “throws darts at a map”?


I think they do quite a bit more research than anyone gives them credit for. They're not stupid and F9 is making solid money. However, since they can start and cancel routes for less than most carriers, they're able to try more unconventional routes. Whereas most people here approach route profitability the way a full service carrier does.
MSP-CHS is unserved, which is why F9 is doing it. The period in which F9 will do JAX will only overlap DL for a couple of months and become the sole carrier. MSP doesn't quite have the traffic for both routes and I expect both to be terminated. SAV can't even hold a daily CRJ for Delta let alone CHS.
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nine4nine
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:43 pm

janders wrote:
ONT event is at 1130am.

I cant see a VP attend in person for a measly single MCO route announcements.



Totally Agree.

Would be nice to see them announce an ONT focus city as I think they would be a carrier best suited for larger scale ONT ops due to the business model they promote.
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717atOGG
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:46 pm

flyPIT wrote:
"Conversely, Frontier is suspending eight routes as part of the schedule update. Frontier said it expected the suspensions to be seasonal, though it was not clear if all would resume. Some of the nine seasonal routes are ending as previously scheduled, though others are being pulled down earlier than expected."

"SUSPENDED ROUTES

Cleveland
Phoenix: Ends Aug. 9
Seattle: Ends Aug. 11

San Diego
Colorado Springs: Ends Aug. 9
Oklahoma City: Ends Aug. 11
Tulsa: Ends Aug. 9

Cincinnati
Philadelphia: Ends Aug. 10
Phoenix: Ends Aug. 11

Philadelphia
Cincinnati: Ends Aug. 10
Grand Rapids: Ends Aug. 10"

https://www.12news.com/article/news/nation-now/frontier-announces-15-new-routes-suspends-8-in-schedule-update/465-5e5ff530-7191-4cde-9cc8-e0db6010d249

I could have seen PHL-GRR and SAN-OKC/TUL getting cut from a million miles away, but I didn't expect all the other ones, especially PHL-CVG, since it got upgauged recently to a daily A321 from a sub-daily A319 and was timed to hit a mini connecting bank at CVG.

As for the route additions, all the SAN adds seem logical, but I think they'd do better with 3-4x weekly service on smaller equipment. ONT-MCO is a nice add, but in my opinion it departs too late at night (12:59 am). It could be better if it departed ONT anywhere between 9:45-11:45, even though that's impossible since the inbound flight gets in at 11:30. The other MCO and LAS adds are all good, but some could support slightly higher frequency IMO. MCO and LAS are more stable in keeping F9 routes so I expect most of them to be winners. I honestly have no clue if SAT-SLC/SNA and AUS-SNA will work, and I'm not optimistic about AUS-SDF or MSP-CHS.
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:47 pm

flymco753 wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

I have frequently seen numbers posted on this forum of the number of passengers between cities. Do we suppose that FL might browse that same data, and launch routes that target those city pairs as opposed to the allegations made on this board that FL “throws darts at a map”?


I think they do quite a bit more research than anyone gives them credit for. They're not stupid and F9 is making solid money. However, since they can start and cancel routes for less than most carriers, they're able to try more unconventional routes. Whereas most people here approach route profitability the way a full service carrier does.
MSP-CHS is unserved, which is why F9 is doing it. The period in which F9 will do JAX will only overlap DL for a couple of months and become the sole carrier. MSP doesn't quite have the traffic for both routes and I expect both to be terminated. SAV can't even hold a daily CRJ for Delta let alone CHS.


SAV is a leisure destination that both DL and SY fly. As a seasonal destination, it works just fine as is. This is also a leisure route. And presumably F9 is just testing the viability of CHS also working as a seasonal leisure flight. SY does 2x weekly on SAV in the same way. NK also does something similar with the MYR flight.

F9 is just trying another flight in the region to see if there's another niche it can capture on a 2x seasonal flight. Everyone else has done something similar in the area.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:52 pm

And it appears F9 has stopped even labeling new routes as seasonal or year-round anymore -- it's always impossible to know...

I don't even make an effort to keep track of what routes Frontier flies from SAN - here one day, gone the next... That's why I'm not overly thrilled to see even 5 new routes announced from SAN today. Oh yeah, while they announce 3 current routes from SAN are suspended...

Woopie!

bb
 
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compensateme
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:33 pm

Still waiting for ONT-GPT, and the ONT and F9 fanboys to declare it’ll print money...
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
BGS91762
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:34 pm

Terminal 2 at ONT will be busy during the late evening hour with Volaris, JetBlue, and Frontier all having red eyes,
 
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compensateme
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:35 pm

BGS91762 wrote:
Terminal 2 at ONT will be busy during the late evening hour with Volaris, JetBlue, and Frontier all having red eyes,


I liken this to somebody who works 25 hours a week describing themselves as “busy.”
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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mariner
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:42 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
I think they do quite a bit more research than anyone gives them credit for. They're not stupid and F9 is making solid money. However, since they can start and cancel routes for less than most carriers, they're able to try more unconventional routes. Whereas most people here approach route profitability the way a full service carrier does.


Very true. Frontier flies where people want to go - but only when they want go there.

Put it this way - I wish I had a dart board that make half as much money. LOL

mariner
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MIflyer12
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:16 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I expect MSP-CHS to fail.


Probably but its nice to see them try. The beauty of running an LCC is the low cost of starting and cancelling a route.


Can you explain why it costs less for Frontier (or another ULCC) to start and drop a route than it does for a legacy carrier?
 
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SANFan
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Re: Frontier Airlines announces 15 new routes

Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:18 pm

Unless I missed the word in the PR, F9 does not even bother to announce 'seasonal' or 'year-round' any more. I can understand that because when they DID mention the route status, it never meant anything anyway.

I did see over on the IND-thread that the new IND-SAN route is supposed to be year-round but of course I believe that was also said about the SAN-COS route when it started in 2017; COS is 'suspended' this August and F9 says, "it was not clear if all [the suspended] routes would resume."

I also find it interesting that SAN-CLE was op'd last year (as permanent or seasonal?), when it stopped in the Fall of 2017. Today, a 'new' route, SAN-CLE, was announced to start this August. Seems like the airline doesn't necessarily know themselves whether particular routes are seasonal, suspended or cancelled...

I understand that F9 makes tons of money but I just like to know what routes, and when, an airlines flies, more than a couple of months in advance. I do not fly F9 or G4 but I do follow both of them here on A.net. I'll also say, congratulations to F9 for being successful with this particular business model.

That's my opinion, and my rant, and I'm finished for now!

bb
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:37 pm

flyPIT wrote:
"Conversely, Frontier is suspending eight routes as part of the schedule update. Frontier said it expected the suspensions to be seasonal, though it was not clear if all would resume. Some of the nine seasonal routes are ending as previously scheduled, though others are being pulled down earlier than expected."

"SUSPENDED ROUTES


Philadelphia
Grand Rapids: Ends Aug. 10"

https://www.12news.com/article/news/nation-now/frontier-announces-15-new-routes-suspends-8-in-schedule-update/465-5e5ff530-7191-4cde-9cc8-e0db6010d249


No surprise- never understood it in the first place. 2x week. Just started April 9..... 4 months service- a new record for short lived routes?
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many321
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:54 pm

compensateme wrote:
BGS91762 wrote:
Terminal 2 at ONT will be busy during the late evening hour with Volaris, JetBlue, and Frontier all having red eyes,


I liken this to somebody who works 25 hours a week describing themselves as “busy.”



Well its a ghost town. So this will be better than nothing.
 
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mariner
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Re: Frontier Airlines announces 15 new routes

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:12 pm

SANFan wrote:
I understand that F9 makes tons of money but I just like to know what routes, and when, an airlines flies, more than a couple of months in advance. I do not fly F9 or G4 but I do follow both of them here on A.net. I'll also say, congratulations to F9 for being successful with this particular business model.


If you don't fly Frontier or Allegiant I can't see why it bothers you.

I'd just point out that as far as Frontier is concerned it was this or oblivion. The Republic BOD had washed it's hands of scheduled flying - largely because of the losses made by Midwest - and were prepared to see Frontier go to the wall if necessary.

Two men had faith in Frontier (both men heavily despised by a.net) as a ULCC. This depended on (a) absolutely no cost to Republic and (b) finding a buyer for the airline. Bill Franke and Indigo Partners may seem the obvious choice, but they were the only one and their purchase was in doubt for many moons.

mariner
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jplatts
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I expect MSP-CHS to fail.


Probably but its nice to see them try. The beauty of running an LCC is the low cost of starting and cancelling a route.


Can you explain why it costs less for Frontier (or another ULCC) to start and drop a route than it does for a legacy carrier?


One of the big differences between F9 and the US3 carriers is that the US3 carriers usually only serve their hubs and focus cities nonstop from non-hub destinations whereas F9 now has nonstop service to destinations other than its DEN home base from many of its destinations. However, UA does still serve a few non-UA hub destinations nonstop from its former CLE hub, and DL does have nonstop service to MCO from destinations other than DL hubs or focus cities. Another big difference is that some of the F9 nonstop routes that are at risk of getting dropped are also already served nonstop by competitors, whereas some of the nonstop routes on US3 carriers are only served nonstop by only 1 legacy carrier.

Factors that help US3 carriers retain nonstop routes out of their hubs include the lack of nonstop competition on some of the routes out of US3 hubs, frequent flyer loyalty, global brand recognition, international connections, most of the US3 nonstop routes being out of hubs or focus cities, business connections, and corporate contracts. These same factors also apply to WN nonstop routes out of the largest WN stations that are not located in the markets of US3 hub or focus city airports, including LAS, SAN, STL, BNA, SMF, MCI, TPA, AUS, MSY, PDX, and SAT.
 
jonair8
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Re: Frontier Airlines announces 15 new routes

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:20 pm

Wasn’t expecting this. Big announcement for ONT, not so much a big announcement in general. ONT hasn’t had a nonstop to the state of Florida in at least 30 years, if ever. Florida, NY, and DC were on ONT’s wishlist for service for a long time. Looks like F9 did away with the direct service to IAD through SAT however. F9 also had hinted at a possible ONT-ORD service back when ONT-DEN/AUS/SAT was announced, but was never started. Interesting to see what they will have in store for the future. Congratulations to ONT and F9!
 
dc10lover
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Re: Frontier Airlines announces 15 new routes

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:22 pm

I thought Frontier was going to start Ontario, California - Chicago O'Hare this Spring. Did they cancel?
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: Frontier Airlines announces 15 new routes

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:29 pm

Looks like MKE-SAN is coming back. A321 3 weekly. Funny how I flew that with a YX number back in 2010 or so.
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Abeam79
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:36 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Hearing F9 is not happy with LGB.
They asked for 6 slots.
But LGB offering them 2 slots with the opportunity to try for more in a lottery.
Rumor has it they walked away from returning to LGB and decided to double down on ONT.
Congratulations to ONT for increasing service.

flyguy

Another airline (F9) possibly biting the dust at LGB. What a shocker. LGB again forces an airline to walk away. Like I said many times before, never has a airport management so misguided and corrupt in managing an airport like LGB. B6 is still the largest there and so far the most success story made there then any predecessor in LGB, they are now aggressively but patiently looking for gate options at LAX/ONT/BUR/SNA, as a big FU to LGB. but after much disappointment from LB city, B6 is retracting with many of the locals hoping they don't being they are very popular among many in LGB. Don't kid yourself, the NIMBY's are just a small but vocal minority. WN good luck, from the looks of their noisier 737's and dismal yields there, they are already looking like they are set up for the usual failure like every airline, but good luck.
 
n7371f
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Re: Frontier Airlines announces 15 new routes

Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:17 am

GEG-LAS makes good sense. It also highlights the decision of Allegiant to stay out of GEG since the HNL debacle. G7 has served LAS-BOI for a few years like F9 will do GEG-LAS.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Frontier Airlines media event at ONT - June 5th

Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:01 am

Abeam79 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Hearing F9 is not happy with LGB.
They asked for 6 slots.
But LGB offering them 2 slots with the opportunity to try for more in a lottery.
Rumor has it they walked away from returning to LGB and decided to double down on ONT.
Congratulations to ONT for increasing service.

flyguy

Another airline (F9) possibly biting the dust at LGB. What a shocker. LGB again forces an airline to walk away. Like I said many times before, never has a airport management so misguided and corrupt in managing an airport like LGB. B6 is still the largest there and so far the most success story made there then any predecessor in LGB, they are now aggressively but patiently looking for gate options at LAX/ONT/BUR/SNA, as a big FU to LGB. but after much disappointment from LB city, B6 is retracting with many of the locals hoping they don't being they are very popular among many in LGB. Don't kid yourself, the NIMBY's are just a small but vocal minority. WN good luck, from the looks of their noisier 737's and dismal yields there, they are already looking like they are set up for the usual failure like every airline, but good luck.


So theirs more to the LGB slots issue.
Apparently JetBlue hasn't officially signed off legally on returning the 12 slots.
LGB airport is all set and ready to redistribute the vacant slots but can't officially do it until JetBlue officially releases them back to the city.
But under the current Agreement only WN willing to temporarily use slots a 180 days out.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.

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