tjh8402
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737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:56 pm

UA has begun service with their Max 9, the first with that version of the Max and UAs first with any Max. Not sure how to upload the photo, but a fellow avgeek friends is lucky enough to be on one of those flights from MCO To IAH and was waiting at the gate at MCO to greet the plane. I got to see her pass overhead on final and she looked good. Congrats to Boeing and UA.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited spelling in title
 
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lightsaber
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:45 pm

Congrats to UA.

New engines always upgauge the optimal size of an aircraft (e.g. 732 then 733 then 738). So I'm curious how well the 739 and 737-10 will sell. I think after the CMC PIP the fraction of -8s will plummet (recall GE9X introduces CMC turbine blades for a significant fuel burn reduction).

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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:45 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
UA has begun service with their Max 9, the first with that version of the Max and UAs first with any Max. Not sure how to upload the photo, but a fellow avgeek friends is lucky enough to be on one of those flights from MCO To IAH and was waiting at the gate at MCO to greet the plane. I got to see her pass overhead on final and she looked good. Congrats to Boeing and UA.


This isn’t the first commercial flight of the MAX 9. That happened a few months ago with Thai Lion Air.
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:47 pm

Two aircraft are flying: N67501 is IAH MCO IAH FLL IAH SAN, N27503 IAH AUS IAH ANC. I believe this will remain the routings until 7502,4-6 come on line in the next few weeks. After that, four more will deliver later this year.
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:59 pm

How about that. The 739MAX will be flying IAH-ANC, which can push 7 hours. Quite a remarkable airplane if you ask me. Will this quiet all the naysayers out there about how bad this plane supposedly is? No.
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tjh8402
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:07 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
UA has begun service with their Max 9, the first with that version of the Max and UAs first with any Max. Not sure how to upload the photo, but a fellow avgeek friends is lucky enough to be on one of those flights from MCO To IAH and was waiting at the gate at MCO to greet the plane. I got to see her pass overhead on final and she looked good. Congrats to Boeing and UA.


This isn’t the first commercial flight of the MAX 9. That happened a few months ago with Thai Lion Air.


My apologies. I did not realize that. Thanks for the correction. Unfortunately too late to edit unless an admin can fix it.
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:14 pm

Yeah, Thai Lion Air has already been operating the 7M9.
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:17 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
How about that. The 739MAX will be flying IAH-ANC, which can push 7 hours. Quite a remarkable airplane if you ask me. Will this quiet all the naysayers out there about how bad this plane supposedly is? No.

Twin minds on that.

The 739 does well on mid (few hours or less) range or from airports with long runways if a little hot (IAH) or a little high (DEN).

But the critics have a point on the poor shortfield performance and the plane need not apply for the more extreamely hot/high (but is good enough for US domestic from LAS or PHX) such as DXBs 114F in August. And the A321NEO is the benchmark.

But I do think there will be more sales, but not nearly as many -9 as -10.

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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:01 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
UA has begun service with their Max 9, the first with that version of the Max and UAs first with any Max. Not sure how to upload the photo, but a fellow avgeek friends is lucky enough to be on one of those flights from MCO To IAH and was waiting at the gate at MCO to greet the plane. I got to see her pass overhead on final and she looked good. Congrats to Boeing and UA.


This isn’t the first commercial flight of the MAX 9. That happened a few months ago with Thai Lion Air.


My apologies. I did not realize that. Thanks for the correction. Unfortunately too late to edit unless an admin can fix it.


It's still the inaugural commercial MAX 9 flight in North America.
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:11 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

This isn’t the first commercial flight of the MAX 9. That happened a few months ago with Thai Lion Air.


My apologies. I did not realize that. Thanks for the correction. Unfortunately too late to edit unless an admin can fix it.


It's still the inaugural commercial MAX 9 flight in North America.

Added North America to thread title.
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:40 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Congrats to UA.

New engines always upgauge the optimal size of an aircraft (e.g. 732 then 733 then 738). So I'm curious how well the 739 and 737-10 will sell. I think after the CMC PIP the fraction of -8s will plummet (recall GE9X introduces CMC turbine blades for a significant fuel burn reduction).

Lightsaber


The MAX 9 will still suffer due to it's landing gear issues that make its field performance less than optimal. If the gear for the MAX 10 were made available for the MAX 9, perhaps the MAX 9 would be better aircraft for some airlines than the MAX 8.
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:26 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
How about that. The 739MAX will be flying IAH-ANC, which can push 7 hours. Quite a remarkable airplane if you ask me. Will this quiet all the naysayers out there about how bad this plane supposedly is? No.

It it can push 7 hours? What is there to SAY about it? I'm looking forward to the Max 10 !!
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:57 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
The MAX 9 will still suffer due to it's landing gear issues that make its field performance less than optimal. If the gear for the MAX 10 were made available for the MAX 9, perhaps the MAX 9 would be better aircraft for some airlines than the MAX 8.


Yet UA operates over 100 -900s throughout their network. I'm not denying that the -900s use a lot of runway, but it's been overstated on this board.

I suspect that the -9Max's will be much the same - lots of carping by people who don't fly them.
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:20 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
The MAX 9 will still suffer due to it's landing gear issues that make its field performance less than optimal. If the gear for the MAX 10 were made available for the MAX 9, perhaps the MAX 9 would be better aircraft for some airlines than the MAX 8.

Right, but the gear for the MAX 10 isn't available today, yet the entire MAX 9 is.

Boeing deliberately chose to just make the -7/-8/-9 to avoid introducing a new fuselage length into the production line and to get product into the hands of the customers as soon as possible.

And since they had customers like UA who are quite willing to buy -9s both customer and vendor are happy, no suffering whatsoever.
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:20 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The MAX 9 will still suffer due to it's landing gear issues that make its field performance less than optimal. If the gear for the MAX 10 were made available for the MAX 9, perhaps the MAX 9 would be better aircraft for some airlines than the MAX 8.


Yet UA operates over 100 -900s throughout their network. I'm not denying that the -900s use a lot of runway, but it's been overstated on this board.

I suspect that the -9Max's will be much the same - lots of carping by people who don't fly them.


I'm not carping. I'm just pointing out that it's unlikely even with engine updates for the MAX 9 to unseat the MAX 8 as the most popular version of the 737 MAX family. The MAX 8 can fly in and out of many more airports. Even UA uses the MAX 9 and 739 between airport pairs that have rather long runways. Look at IAH-ANC. ANC used to be a major passenger hub to the far east and has always had long runways. IAH was built from the beginning to handle large jets on long haul intercontinental routes. The MAX 9 is great for routes that can handle close to the capacity of a 752, already have long enough runways, but don't need the range of the 752.
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:03 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The MAX 9 will still suffer due to it's landing gear issues that make its field performance less than optimal. If the gear for the MAX 10 were made available for the MAX 9, perhaps the MAX 9 would be better aircraft for some airlines than the MAX 8.


Yet UA operates over 100 -900s throughout their network. I'm not denying that the -900s use a lot of runway, but it's been overstated on this board.

I suspect that the -9Max's will be much the same - lots of carping by people who don't fly them.


I'm not carping. I'm just pointing out that it's unlikely even with engine updates for the MAX 9 to unseat the MAX 8 as the most popular version of the 737 MAX family. The MAX 8 can fly in and out of many more airports. Even UA uses the MAX 9 and 739 between airport pairs that have rather long runways. Look at IAH-ANC. ANC used to be a major passenger hub to the far east and has always had long runways. IAH was built from the beginning to handle large jets on long haul intercontinental routes. The MAX 9 is great for routes that can handle close to the capacity of a 752, already have long enough runways, but don't need the range of the 752.



You're only talking about maybe a handful of airports around the country where a 739ER would run into runway performance issues (and it would really apply to the A321 as well -- to a lesser degree, but still problematic). We're talking: SNA, MDW, LGA. Even these can handle the 739ER with ease when not flying across country. Aside from these, the plane flies Transcons and to HI all the time without an issue.

So yes, there are a few scenarios where you'd have limitations using them, but not many in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:05 pm

I was on the inaugural flight today from IAH-MCO. As you can see from the T/O data below, the B737MAX-9 is still a dog on departure just like it’s older brother. This takeoff data makes for rather good comparisons as there was 0 wind today. We were even 30 thousand plus pounds under MTOW. But as someone else said, United uses the -900ERs at airports that can handle it. It’s never been a scheduling problem. If the runway is short, United simply sends in the -700 or -800.

Image
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:42 pm

The Thai Lion Air B737 MAX 9 has 215 seats and seem to operate from various airports in Thailand without too much ado, so the MAX 9 can't be all that bad...

With those big LEAP engines, I think the MAX 9 looks better proportioned than the MAX 8.
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:42 pm

ual763 wrote:
I was on the inaugural flight today from IAH-MCO. As you can see from the T/O data below, the B737MAX-9 is still a dog on departure just like it’s older brother. This takeoff data makes for rather good comparisons as there was 0 wind today. We were even 30 thousand plus pounds under MTOW. But as someone else said, United uses the -900ERs at airports that can handle it. It’s never been a scheduling problem. If the runway is short, United simply sends in the -700 or -800.

Image


Fascinating data. Would it be possible for you to obtain the data from the IAH-ANC flight?
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:29 am

I am glad to see the airplane entering service. There was a lot of doubt, especially from one member, about whether or not The 737-9 would ever be built let alone operated by United. In a number of threads there was speculation that the 737-9 order would be canceled in favor of A321neos.

It is interesting that United is putting the airplane on IAH-ANC right away. Is the route being relaunched because of the range of the MAX? That would have been a struggle for a 737-900ER and the 757s are configured for premium routes.
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:30 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
ual763 wrote:
I was on the inaugural flight today from IAH-MCO. As you can see from the T/O data below, the B737MAX-9 is still a dog on departure just like it’s older brother. This takeoff data makes for rather good comparisons as there was 0 wind today. We were even 30 thousand plus pounds under MTOW. But as someone else said, United uses the -900ERs at airports that can handle it. It’s never been a scheduling problem. If the runway is short, United simply sends in the -700 or -800.

Image


Fascinating data. Would it be possible for you to obtain the data from the IAH-ANC flight?


Unfortunately not anytime soon
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:04 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
I am glad to see the airplane entering service. There was a lot of doubt, especially from one member, about whether or not The 737-9 would ever be built let alone operated by United. In a number of threads there was speculation that the 737-9 order would be canceled in favor of A321neos.

It is interesting that United is putting the airplane on IAH-ANC right away. Is the route being relaunched because of the range of the MAX? That would have been a struggle for a 737-900ER and the 757s are configured for premium routes.


I'm not shocked at all. Just as the 787 was used for long haul expansion rather than replacement of 767's, the 737-9 MAX is being put on the longest domestic routes first. This puts the most fuel efficient aircraft on the routes that benefit most from the improved fuel efficiency.
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:36 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
I am glad to see the airplane entering service. There was a lot of doubt, especially from one member, about whether or not The 737-9 would ever be built let alone operated by United. In a number of threads there was speculation that the 737-9 order would be canceled in favor of A321neos.

It is interesting that United is putting the airplane on IAH-ANC right away. Is the route being relaunched because of the range of the MAX? That would have been a struggle for a 737-900ER and the 757s are configured for premium routes.


I'm not shocked at all. Just as the 787 was used for long haul expansion rather than replacement of 767's, the 737-9 MAX is being put on the longest domestic routes first. This puts the most fuel efficient aircraft on the routes that benefit most from the improved fuel efficiency.


It makes sense, indeed. I feel for the good people of ANC, however. They've been MAX'd in mass. Does UA use the same terrible toilet configuration that AA uses?

Love to see this classic design get new life. Do not love the prospect of how tight the interiors have become.
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:12 am

ual763 wrote:
I was on the inaugural flight today from IAH-MCO. As you can see from the T/O data below, the B737MAX-9 is still a dog on departure just like it’s older brother. This takeoff data makes for rather good comparisons as there was 0 wind today. We were even 30 thousand plus pounds under MTOW. But as someone else said, United uses the -900ERs at airports that can handle it. It’s never been a scheduling problem. If the runway is short, United simply sends in the -700 or -800.

Image



Using the reduced thrust line is not a good barometer of the performance. That is the unbalanced field length to take adavantage of reduced engine thrust and available runway.

Compare those to the MAX Thrust line and you see a relatively low set of numbers for V1,VR and V2.

You would see a similar disparity in a 777 using a very long runway also.

Need to know what you are reading and how those numbers are derived to make that judgement about it being a “dog”
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:27 am

mcdu wrote:
Using the reduced thrust line is not a good barometer of the performance. That is the unbalanced field length to take adavantage of reduced engine thrust and available runway.

Compare those to the MAX Thrust line and you see a relatively low set of numbers for V1,VR and V2.

You would see a similar disparity in a 777 using a very long runway also.

Need to know what you are reading and how those numbers are derived to make that judgement about it being a “dog”


Correct. You could have easily taken off of a 7000 ft runway (like BOS 9) with that TOW. Might be flaps 15 or 25, but it’s doable. There’d be a lot less reduce, though.
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:06 am

sdh9 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Using the reduced thrust line is not a good barometer of the performance. That is the unbalanced field length to take adavantage of reduced engine thrust and available runway.

Compare those to the MAX Thrust line and you see a relatively low set of numbers for V1,VR and V2.

You would see a similar disparity in a 777 using a very long runway also.

Need to know what you are reading and how those numbers are derived to make that judgement about it being a “dog”


Correct. You could have easily taken off of a 7000 ft runway (like BOS 9) with that TOW. Might be flaps 15 or 25, but it’s doable. There’d be a lot less reduce, though.


UA will operate the MAX9 out of OGG later this year, so runway performance must be sufficient if it can take off a 7000ft runway and make it to LAX.
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:20 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:

Yet UA operates over 100 -900s throughout their network. I'm not denying that the -900s use a lot of runway, but it's been overstated on this board.

I suspect that the -9Max's will be much the same - lots of carping by people who don't fly them.


I'm not carping. I'm just pointing out that it's unlikely even with engine updates for the MAX 9 to unseat the MAX 8 as the most popular version of the 737 MAX family. The MAX 8 can fly in and out of many more airports. Even UA uses the MAX 9 and 739 between airport pairs that have rather long runways. Look at IAH-ANC. ANC used to be a major passenger hub to the far east and has always had long runways. IAH was built from the beginning to handle large jets on long haul intercontinental routes. The MAX 9 is great for routes that can handle close to the capacity of a 752, already have long enough runways, but don't need the range of the 752.



You're only talking about maybe a handful of airports around the country where a 739ER would run into runway performance issues (and it would really apply to the A321 as well -- to a lesser degree, but still problematic). We're talking: SNA, MDW, LGA. Even these can handle the 739ER with ease when not flying across country. Aside from these, the plane flies Transcons and to HI all the time without an issue.

So yes, there are a few scenarios where you'd have limitations using them, but not many in the grand scheme of things.

Just to expand, the few scenarios where the -9 won't work, the -8 can replace the 757. It is about profit per flight and not seats. My math says a -8 will make more profit per flight than the 757. Not as much profit as a -9, -10, or A321NEO, but I assume runway constraints.

It is like how a 77W makes more profit per flight than a 744. It is a question of the value of the added capacity vs. new design economics.

Or airlines can wait for the A320NEO with the SHARP kit. It is about making money. Yeild management also favors constrained capacity...

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rubiohiguey
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:35 am

Is there any way to get a payload range chart for MAX 9? Boeing hasn't updated its airport manual for 739 MAX yet with this data. If anyone has it would it be possible to share it with me?
 
77H
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:00 am

FlyHossD wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The MAX 9 will still suffer due to it's landing gear issues that make its field performance less than optimal. If the gear for the MAX 10 were made available for the MAX 9, perhaps the MAX 9 would be better aircraft for some airlines than the MAX 8.


Yet UA operates over 100 -900s throughout their network. I'm not denying that the -900s use a lot of runway, but it's been overstated on this board.

I suspect that the -9Max's will be much the same - lots of carping by people who don't fly them.


There are several notable airports they can’t use the 739 to that could benefit from the added capacity the plane offers. OGG/LIH/SNA immediately come to mind.

77H
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:07 am

hoya wrote:
sdh9 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Using the reduced thrust line is not a good barometer of the performance. That is the unbalanced field length to take adavantage of reduced engine thrust and available runway.

Compare those to the MAX Thrust line and you see a relatively low set of numbers for V1,VR and V2.

You would see a similar disparity in a 777 using a very long runway also.

Need to know what you are reading and how those numbers are derived to make that judgement about it being a “dog”


Correct. You could have easily taken off of a 7000 ft runway (like BOS 9) with that TOW. Might be flaps 15 or 25, but it’s doable. There’d be a lot less reduce, though.


UA will operate the MAX9 out of OGG later this year, so runway performance must be sufficient if it can take off a 7000ft runway and make it to LAX.


I’ve seen that on the fleet utilization plan. Had to double take when I first saw it. Even more surprising is that OGG is scheduled to see the M9 before KOA which has a longer runway.

I watched a video of the 7M9 inaugural take off roll. It used most of the runway out of IAH. Hopefully UA sends the plane on proving runs before they commit it to OGG lest they find themselves blocking seats to leave the pavement.

OGG’s strong tradewinds should aid the plane in getting off the runway but what happens when winds are calm?

77H
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:19 am

lightsaber wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
How about that. The 739MAX will be flying IAH-ANC, which can push 7 hours. Quite a remarkable airplane if you ask me. Will this quiet all the naysayers out there about how bad this plane supposedly is? No.

Twin minds on that.

The 739 does well on mid (few hours or less) range or from airports with long runways if a little hot (IAH) or a little high (DEN).

But the critics have a point on the poor shortfield performance and the plane need not apply for the more extreamely hot/high (but is good enough for US domestic from LAS or PHX) such as DXBs 114F in August. And the A321NEO is the benchmark.

But I do think there will be more sales, but not nearly as many -9 as -10.

Lightsaber

Not entirely related but I've heard rumours about China Eastern being unsatisfied with MAX8's (relatively) hot and high performance when operating out of KMG, while another rumour says A320neo's high altitude take-off performance is comparable with A319ceos. That could be some hints up here.

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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:22 am

lightsaber wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
How about that. The 739MAX will be flying IAH-ANC, which can push 7 hours. Quite a remarkable airplane if you ask me. Will this quiet all the naysayers out there about how bad this plane supposedly is? No.

Twin minds on that.

The 739 does well on mid (few hours or less) range or from airports with long runways if a little hot (IAH) or a little high (DEN).

But the critics have a point on the poor shortfield performance and the plane need not apply for the more extreamely hot/high (but is good enough for US domestic from LAS or PHX) such as DXBs 114F in August. And the A321NEO is the benchmark.

But I do think there will be more sales, but not nearly as many -9 as -10.

Lightsaber

Well? United already knows that fact and will NOT oprate the aircraft from a short Runway
They have B737-700/-800's/900's A320's and A319's to operate from those airports.. Did you think they didn't have a plan?
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:52 am

CRJ900 wrote:
The Thai Lion Air B737 MAX 9 has 215 seats and seem to operate from various airports in Thailand without too much ado, so the MAX 9 can't be all that bad...

With those big LEAP engines, I think the MAX 9 looks better proportioned than the MAX 8.



The Max 9 has roughly the same performance as the 900ER in regards to runway length. Atleast most carriers that have Maxes in operation right now already have a backbone Fleet of NGs, but I think it’s runway performance for some airlines could be an issue, but the A321 has the same issues in regard to Runway Lenth. But who knows, maybe we’ll see some Max 9s out of LGA one day :half:

And I do agree with you on the sizing, it does look more proportional.
 
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:57 am

Currently UA is operating 737-900ERs from LGA to both DEN and ORD, so there's potential for the Max 9.
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:59 am

ual763 wrote:
I was on the inaugural flight today from IAH-MCO. As you can see from the T/O data below, the B737MAX-9 is still a dog on departure just like it’s older brother. This takeoff data makes for rather good comparisons as there was 0 wind today. We were even 30 thousand plus pounds under MTOW. But as someone else said, United uses the -900ERs at airports that can handle it. It’s never been a scheduling problem. If the runway is short, United simply sends in the -700 or -800.

Image


It seems as if you are coming up with a conclusion based on data you do not understand here.
Its unblanaced field performance based on long runway and reduced thrust setting. Its going to take advantage of RWY 15L's 11500ft runway length in order to preserve engine use. Of course the speeds will be higher.

You need to understand how and why this data is derived and how its used. Your post is misrepresenting the true performance of the aircraft.

Too many variables are missing here

EDIT* looks like somebody beat me to it.
 
Okcflyer
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:28 pm

Regarding field performance: my understanding is the APB split scimitar winglet and associated performance software updates significantly improved 900ER’s hot, high, and/or heavy performance.

In fairly normal conditions, the performance isn’t/wasn’t terrible, in fact fairly run of the mill. It’s at the bleeding edge of performance that speeds and lengths start to increase significantly. This is the area the Split’s helped out quite a bit. Following retrofits, 900ER’s became very common in Den.

Can anyone confirm this understanding?

I imagine (but don’t know) that Boeing advanced wingtip performs at least as well as the APB solution and its only in extreme cases do you need long runways.
 
Blockplus
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:23 pm

The 900 (er)s biggest problem at denver is was the approach climb limit with ice accretion. United and Boeing came up with a solution that significantly reduce the penalty. Flap 5 go around.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:24 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
How about that. The 739MAX will be flying IAH-ANC, which can push 7 hours. Quite a remarkable airplane if you ask me. Will this quiet all the naysayers out there about how bad this plane supposedly is? No.

Twin minds on that.

The 739 does well on mid (few hours or less) range or from airports with long runways if a little hot (IAH) or a little high (DEN).

But the critics have a point on the poor shortfield performance and the plane need not apply for the more extreamely hot/high (but is good enough for US domestic from LAS or PHX) such as DXBs 114F in August. And the A321NEO is the benchmark.

But I do think there will be more sales, but not nearly as many -9 as -10.

Lightsaber

Well? United already knows that fact and will NOT oprate the aircraft from a short Runway
They have B737-700/-800's/900's A320's and A319's to operate from those airports.. Did you think they didn't have a plan?

In no way did I imply UA doesn't have a plan. Quite the converse. The -9 has it's missions and will make good money. If the runway is long enough, it will make more profit per flight than the 757.

I just spoke of the limits. I assume most readers know UA has a diverse fleet. The MAX saves a nice amount of fuel and opens up missions others have noted.

In general my posts are too long as is!

Lightsaber
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Slash787
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:24 pm

Can someone post pictures
 
Varsity1
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:35 pm

lightsaber wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
How about that. The 739MAX will be flying IAH-ANC, which can push 7 hours. Quite a remarkable airplane if you ask me. Will this quiet all the naysayers out there about how bad this plane supposedly is? No.

Twin minds on that.

The 739 does well on mid (few hours or less) range or from airports with long runways if a little hot (IAH) or a little high (DEN).

But the critics have a point on the poor shortfield performance and the plane need not apply for the more extreamely hot/high (but is good enough for US domestic from LAS or PHX) such as DXBs 114F in August. And the A321NEO is the benchmark.

But I do think there will be more sales, but not nearly as many -9 as -10.

Lightsaber


DXB is at sea level. PHX and LAS are just as hot (PHX sometimes hotter) and higher elevation.

The A321 can't climb out of the high 20's/low 30's if it's heavy or ISA+anything. It's not the perfect airplane a.net believes.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
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kgaiflyer
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:01 pm

"Just to expand, the few scenarios where the -9 won't work, the -8 can replace the 757. It is about profit per flight and not seats. My math says a -8 will make more profit per flight than the 757. Not as much profit as a -9, -10, or" A321NEO, but I assume runway constraints"

Yet I'm amazed how a 753 can take off from DCA (7169 ft runway length) with just a short 'standing runup'.
My recent SFO nonstop from there had virtually every seat filled.

Is the 739ER underpowered?
 
iahcsr
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:53 pm

UAs third Max9 should be starting service today. N37502 is only 13 hours late arriving from SKF, but should leave OT for MCO.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
FlyHossD
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:24 pm

ual763 wrote:
I was on the inaugural flight today from IAH-MCO. As you can see from the T/O data below, the B737MAX-9 is still a dog on departure just like it’s older brother. This takeoff data makes for rather good comparisons as there was 0 wind today. We were even 30 thousand plus pounds under MTOW. But as someone else said, United uses the -900ERs at airports that can handle it. It’s never been a scheduling problem. If the runway is short, United simply sends in the -700 or -800.

Image


It's clear that you don't understand the take off data. You should have noted the temperature used to produce those numbers - 52 Celsius (125 Fahrenheit). It's quite common for airlines to use reduced thrust take offs by selecting a temperature that's higher/hotter than the actual temperature that still permits the load to be lifted off the planned runway. WIth a long runway, the departure roll can be long, but that's not a sign of true potential performance.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:26 pm

77H wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
I suspect that the -9Max's will be much the same - lots of carping by people who don't fly them.


There are several notable airports they can’t use the 739 to that could benefit from the added capacity the plane offers. OGG/LIH/SNA immediately come to mind.

77H


hoya wrote:
UA will operate the MAX9 out of OGG later this year, so runway performance must be sufficient if it can take off a 7000ft runway and make it to LAX.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
strfyr51
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:30 pm

BENAir01 wrote:
Yeah, Thai Lion Air has already been operating the 7M9.

I thought the header said North American inaugural service?
 
planecane
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:32 pm

Is it possible/likely that after the MAX 10 is certified Boeing will either roll the landing gear modifications into the MAX 9 or offer a MAX 9 extra performance version with the changes? With the way they decided to do the MAX 10, wouldn't the "improved MAX 9" just be a straight shrink of the MAX 10?

Hypothetically, how would the performance of the "improved MAX 9" compare to the MAX 8?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: 737 Max 9 innagural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:32 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
BENAir01 wrote:
Yeah, Thai Lion Air has already been operating the 7M9.

I thought the header said North American inaugural service?


The header was changed to reflect Thai Lion Air being first.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
UWPAviation
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:36 pm

Does anyone know if or when ORD will see UA's MAX?
 
strfyr51
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:45 pm

The assumed temp is +50 deg F higher than the actual OAT. that's pretty impressive . It's going to make for a damn long runway takeoff roll though.
It saves on engine wear but I'd rather have runway behind me and sky below me in more of a hurry than that. I was never a fan of Max Gross takeoffs even when I worked as a flight engineer.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: 737 Max 9 North America inaugural service

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:51 pm

77H wrote:
hoya wrote:
sdh9 wrote:

Correct. You could have easily taken off of a 7000 ft runway (like BOS 9) with that TOW. Might be flaps 15 or 25, but it’s doable. There’d be a lot less reduce, though.


UA will operate the MAX9 out of OGG later this year, so runway performance must be sufficient if it can take off a 7000ft runway and make it to LAX.


I’ve seen that on the fleet utilization plan. Had to double take when I first saw it. Even more surprising is that OGG is scheduled to see the M9 before KOA which has a longer runway.

I watched a video of the 7M9 inaugural take off roll. It used most of the runway out of IAH. Hopefully UA sends the plane on proving runs before they commit it to OGG lest they find themselves blocking seats to leave the pavement.

OGG’s strong tradewinds should aid the plane in getting off the runway but what happens when winds are calm?

77H
I don't think anyone is anxious to add extra capacity to KOA right now.
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