c933103
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Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:43 pm

Aircraft B-2447. As it's just a few days before Kim Jong Un's meeting with Trump and with the previous speculation about what aircraft will Kim use to attend the meeting and B-2447 itself is sometimes used to carry Chinese president around, it's suspected that Kim Jong Un might have be carried into Beijing by the flight and thus now staying at Beijing
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Flighty
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:03 pm

Well, here is the flightaware.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/b-2447

Perhaps Kim is talking to China leaders as you say. Trump and presumably his VC-25 are in Canada talking with G7 leaders. It will be interesting if Kim rides this civil airliner to the summit, or if he has his own equipment. Does he have anything suitable?
 
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Dublinspotter
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:17 pm

Flighty wrote:
Well, here is the flightaware.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/b-2447

Perhaps Kim is talking to China leaders as you say. Trump and presumably his VC-25 are in Canada talking with G7 leaders. It will be interesting if Kim rides this civil airliner to the summit, or if he has his own equipment. Does he have anything suitable?


I believe there is an Il-62 maintained by Air Koryo with a VIP interior. But questions were raised as to its airworthiness for a flight as 'long' as from Pyongyang to Singapore.

Chris.
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Armaghman
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:24 pm

Plane Pooling - Trump can collect him on his way
 
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alex0easy
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:24 pm

c933103 wrote:
B-2447 itself is sometimes used to carry Chinese president around

Not exactly, B-2447 is usually used by the prime minister.
Of the other 2 B744s, B-2472 is used by the president, and B-2445 flies commercial.
Maybe Kim leased 2447?
 
TC957
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:30 pm

Must have been quite a sight for the FNJ airport workers - has a 747 ever been there before ?
 
jkd4855
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:34 pm

Dublinspotter wrote:
Flighty wrote:
Well, here is the flightaware.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/b-2447

Perhaps Kim is talking to China leaders as you say. Trump and presumably his VC-25 are in Canada talking with G7 leaders. It will be interesting if Kim rides this civil airliner to the summit, or if he has his own equipment. Does he have anything suitable?


I believe there is an Il-62 maintained by Air Koryo with a VIP interior. But questions were raised as to its airworthiness for a flight as 'long' as from Pyongyang to Singapore.

Chris.


Do you know why they found it to be unairworthy for that long of a flight?
 
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alex0easy
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:39 pm

TC957 wrote:
Must have been quite a sight for the FNJ airport workers - has a 747 ever been there before ?


Yes, when Chinese leaders visited.
 
artofzen
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:44 pm

Asiana Airlines too.
 
airnorth
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:50 pm

Looking at the flight track on FR24, anyone know why they wouldn't just zip straight across? It seems like the longest route possible!
 
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:21 pm

airnorth wrote:
Looking at the flight track on FR24, anyone know why they wouldn't just zip straight across? It seems like the longest route possible!


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c933103
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:37 am

TC957 wrote:
Must have been quite a sight for the FNJ airport workers - has a 747 ever been there before ?

Just earlier this year a 744F was sent by South Korean government to FNJ to transport performance equipment into North Korea
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mercure1
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:10 am

CA A330 arrived FNJ also. Media says part of preparations to move N. Korean delegation to Singapore.


Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfNuv4RUEAE70AG.jpg:large
mercure f-wtcc
 
777PHX
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:23 am

Rumor on Twitter is that this one was a test for the real flight. Kim's IL-62 probably isn't reliable enough for that long of a sector. It's never been anywhere other than China. Supposedly Kim wants a 744 to match Trump.
 
artofzen
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:54 am

c933103 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Must have been quite a sight for the FNJ airport workers - has a 747 ever been there before ?

Just earlier this year a 744F was sent by South Korean government to FNJ to transport performance equipment into North Korea

Wasnt it Air Incheon 737F?
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:54 am

Just to add that there are 3 Il-62Ms operated for the state transport role. P-618 & P-882 were both delivered as factory VIP aircraft and that was in 1985 so one of the "newer" Il-62Ms, mind you they were produced until the early 1990s.

More recently P-881 also was removed from Air Koryo operations and lost its titles etc becoming a Air Force VIP transport as well.

These aircraft have in the last few years been seen as close as PEK, INC and as far as DAM and SVO so range is not really an issue. None the less if range and reliability were and issue they do have 2 Tu-204s that until the recent round of sanctions flew to KUL, BKK and not to mention KWI and also SVO before. Oh and also they did once fly scheduled charts to Singapore....

Maybe the Air China aircraft have been provided as part of negotiations as Air Koryo is currently under UN and US sanctions they may not even be permitted to land at SIN
Last edited by Melbourne on Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Lootess
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:22 am

It wasn't reported by the western media:

Kim Jong Un Has to Take Foreign Plane to the Summit.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:21 am

mercure1 wrote:
Image

This is one of these pictures where the background is even more interesting than the aircraft in the foreground... :-)
 
TC957
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:46 am

That's a bit of a damming indication as to the real state of the JS fleet if even a TU204 isn't trusted or authorized to take him to SIN.
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:54 am

TC957 wrote:
That's a bit of a damming indication as to the real state of the JS fleet if even a TU204 isn't trusted or authorized to take him to SIN.


Well they only have 2 of them and they are operating their entire network PEK, SHE, VVO, PVG so they would be stretched out trying to fly over to SIN on short notice anyway. Not sure if the Air Koryo or even North Korean Air Force il-62s are prohibited due to sanctions from flying to SIN

Also worth mentioning is the Tu-204 fleet is authorised to operate to the EU.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:28 am

Melbourne wrote:
TC957 wrote:
That's a bit of a damming indication as to the real state of the JS fleet if even a TU204 isn't trusted or authorized to take him to SIN.


Well they only have 2 of them and they are operating their entire network PEK, SHE, VVO, PVG so they would be stretched out trying to fly over to SIN on short notice anyway. Not sure if the Air Koryo or even North Korean Air Force il-62s are prohibited due to sanctions from flying to SIN

Also worth mentioning is the Tu-204 fleet is authorised to operate to the EU.

With reports of them not being able to buy hotel rooms in Singapore they probably don’t have currency to buy return fuel.
 
mast2407
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:41 am

I’m guessing that the route is due to aircraft from North Korea not being allowed into South Korean airspace?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:09 am

airnorth wrote:
Looking at the flight track on FR24, anyone know why they wouldn't just zip straight across? It seems like the longest route possible!

It follows the normal commercial flight route and is (IIRC) the only air route available between China and NK.

mercure1 wrote:
CA A330 arrived FNJ also. Media says part of preparations to move N. Korean delegation to Singapore.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfNuv4RUEAE70AG.jpg:large

And it's indeed on its way to SIN as CA60, straight from FNJ

Follow it live: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/b-6130

Michael
 
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monomojo
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:18 am

airnorth wrote:
Looking at the flight track on FR24, anyone know why they wouldn't just zip straight across? It seems like the longest route possible!


Standard for that route it appears:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 2#119d8f91

China's airspace is tightly controlled by the military and civilian aircraft are forced into a fairly limited number of routes/waypoints, which contributes to China's notorious air traffic congestion and delays/cancellations. Have a look at the tracks for flights leaving Beijing for the eastern US/Canada, and you'll often see them go far far out of the way to the east to join tracks from several other cities to leave the country all at the same point.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#119aada1
 
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SR380
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:56 am

When are the oldest Il-96 from Rossiya schedule to retire?
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:30 pm

I am thinking whether any temperately stickers will be applied to the plane KM flying.

No good to display "Air China" and China's flag when the whole world is watching it.
 
raylee67
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:38 pm

Kim is going to fly to Singapore on Air China's 747. Curious is that whether they will remove the "Air China" title and the Chinese flag on the plane Kim's flying on. It would be a "great insult" to DPRK if Kim has to fly on a plane with someone else's flag, at least that would be the logic of North Korea.

Kim and Trump are both arriving 2 days earlier than the actual summit date. It's very likely some private talks will happen on Jun 10 and 11. If there is any kind of break-through and an actual peace treaty for the Peninsula is to be signed, I can imagine President Xi of China and President Moon of South Korea will fly to Singapore on Jun 12 to join the summit and sign the treaty there. The war officially was between China+DPRK and UN+ROK, so all four sides must be represented in an ultimate peace treaty. And the Prime Minister of Singapore will be the one getting the Nobel Prize. :D

The St. Regis Hotel that Kim is staying at in Singapore is also owned by Chinese. This solved the problem of DPRK being unable to pay the hotel bill. Note that while St. Regis is part of Starwood Hotels, many are franchised so Starwood does not actually own those hotels.

SR380 wrote:
When are the oldest Il-96 from Rossiya schedule to retire?


Rossiya's IL-96s are only flying state duties (i.e. Putin) now. So before Russia manufactures the next long range widebody, the IL-96 will continue its duty. Putin is not going to fly around on an Airbus or a Boeing.
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IPFreely
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:53 pm

Dublinspotter wrote:
I believe there is an Il-62 maintained by Air Koryo with a VIP interior. But questions were raised as to its airworthiness for a flight as 'long' as from Pyongyang to Singapore.


I've never heard of a plane being airworthy, but only for flights under a certain length. Unless it's a weight/fuel/range, or ETOPS issue. How long of a flight can the IL-62 make while staying airworthy? Maybe it could fly to SIN with an enroute stop keeping both legs within "airworthy" range?
 
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SR380
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:35 pm

SR380 wrote:
When are the oldest Il-96 from Rossiya schedule to retire?


Rossiya's IL-96s are only flying state duties (i.e. Putin) now. So before Russia manufactures the next long range widebody, the IL-96 will continue its duty. Putin is not going to fly around on an Airbus or a Boeing.[/quote]

I didn’t expect Putin to fly A or B. But Kim getting a used Il-96 VIP
 
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XAM2175
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:52 pm

IPFreely wrote:
I've never heard of a plane being airworthy, but only for flights under a certain length. Unless it's a weight/fuel/range, or ETOPS issue. How long of a flight can the IL-62 make while staying airworthy? Maybe it could fly to SIN with an enroute stop keeping both legs within "airworthy" range?


Simple - it's probably technically airworthy, but they don't trust it.

"Airworthiness" is, after all, a legal and regulatory construct that doesn't come and go if an airframe is, for example, taken beyond ETOPS range or planned for a flight beyond it's fuel capacity.

The willingness of people to fly and be flown in those circumstances, though, does.
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:57 pm

In 2007 the New York philharmonics performed in Pyongyang. They were flown in on an Asiana 747. There is actually a very interesting documentary on that. At minute 4:54 they show the 747 having landed at FNJ. The video tells you how much North Korea wants to open up to the world. Very interesting to watch!

https://youtu.be/7s7sbS5hiMo

This answers the question “has there ever been a 747 into North Korea”: yes there has been. Whether there were others before I doubt it but maybe someone here knows.
 
JoergAtADN
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:15 pm

777PHX wrote:
Supposedly Kim wants a 744 to match Trump.


That's not how you have tackle a Donald Trump. Instead Kim should rent the AN225, replace the few seats with luxury interior and install a golf teeing ground in the cargo hold. At the smit, Kim should invite Donald Trump to play a round of golf - than he will recognize him as equal man.
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:55 pm

777PHX wrote:
Supposedly Kim wants a 744 to match Trump.

One would think Kim would want an IL96?
 
JoergAtADN
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:45 pm

JayBCNLON wrote:
In 2007 the New York philharmonics performed in Pyongyang. They were flown in on an Asiana 747. There is actually a very interesting documentary on that. At minute 4:54 they show the 747 having landed at FNJ. The video tells you how much North Korea wants to open up to the world. Very interesting to watch!


Indeed, thanks for the link!
 
JA786A
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:40 pm

JayBCNLON wrote:
In 2007 the New York philharmonics performed in Pyongyang. They were flown in on an Asiana 747. There is actually a very interesting documentary on that. At minute 4:54 they show the 747 having landed at FNJ. The video tells you how much North Korea wants to open up to the world. Very interesting to watch!

https://youtu.be/7s7sbS5hiMo

This answers the question “has there ever been a 747 into North Korea”: yes there has been. Whether there were others before I doubt it but maybe someone here knows.


Then Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi flew to FNJ with Japan's Air Force One (reg 20-1101) in 2002. Could this one even be the first ever 747 landing in FNJ?
Image
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d8EHpoap_U
 
Lootess
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:49 pm

raylee67 wrote:
Kim is going to fly to Singapore on Air China's 747. Curious is that whether they will remove the "Air China" title and the Chinese flag on the plane Kim's flying on. It would be a "great insult" to DPRK if Kim has to fly on a plane with someone else's flag, at least that would be the logic of North Korea.


What logic? Even Kim Yong Sol and his delegation had no problem flying PEK-JFK commercial on Air China to meet Secretary Pompeo.

Compared to the Secretary taking his 757 to FNJ.

Singapore is paying for their hotel costs.
 
georgiaame
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:06 am

Things are looking pretty good already! The chub has already discovered the joys of flying on American made equipment. Mr Kim, all these riches, and so much more are your's for the asking, just get rid of the nukes and learn to act nice with the rest of the world. Your buds the Russians and the Chinese cannot even come close to offering you what we can.
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Dldiamondboy
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:11 am

raylee67 wrote:
Kim is going to fly to Singapore on Air China's 747. Curious is that whether they will remove the "Air China" title and the Chinese flag on the plane Kim's flying on. It would be a "great insult" to DPRK if Kim has to fly on a plane with someone else's flag, at least that would be the logic of North Korea.

Kim and Trump are both arriving 2 days earlier than the actual summit date. It's very likely some private talks will happen on Jun 10 and 11. If there is any kind of break-through and an actual peace treaty for the Peninsula is to be signed, I can imagine President Xi of China and President Moon of South Korea will fly to Singapore on Jun 12 to join the summit and sign the treaty there. The war officially was between China+DPRK and UN+ROK, so all four sides must be represented in an ultimate peace treaty. And the Prime Minister of Singapore will be the one getting the Nobel Prize. :D

The St. Regis Hotel that Kim is staying at in Singapore is also owned by Chinese. This solved the problem of DPRK being unable to pay the hotel bill. Note that while St. Regis is part of Starwood Hotels, many are franchised so Starwood does not actually own those hotels.

SR380 wrote:
When are the oldest Il-96 from Rossiya schedule to retire?


Rossiya's IL-96s are only flying state duties (i.e. Putin) now. So before Russia manufactures the next long range widebody, the IL-96 will continue its duty. Putin is not going to fly around on an Airbus or a Boeing.


Seems like it would also be a "great insult" if Kim flies on a Boeing. American designed and built.
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:51 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
I am thinking whether any temperately stickers will be applied to the plane KM flying.

No good to display "Air China" and China's flag when the whole world is watching it.


Well, it's a good thing it's Air China then. Just cover the text and the red "VIP" phoenix on the tail/winglets and it'll look like a generic Communist-era aircraft.
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LDRA
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:01 am

B-2447 on its way to SIN as CA061
 
SQueeze
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:07 am

Is this Kim? Ilyushin 62 over Chinese airspace.

https://fr24.com/11ac443b
 
mabadia71
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:52 am

LDRA wrote:
B-2447 on its way to SIN as CA061


Departed FNJ as CCA122, and changed callsign mid-air over Beijing to CCA061
mabadia71
 
c933103
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:54 am

artofzen wrote:
c933103 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Must have been quite a sight for the FNJ airport workers - has a 747 ever been there before ?

Just earlier this year a 744F was sent by South Korean government to FNJ to transport performance equipment into North Korea

Wasnt it Air Incheon 737F?

See https://www.msn.com/ko-kr/money/topstor ... ar-AAveAqq
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hkcanadaexpat
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:22 am

SQueeze wrote:
Is this Kim? Ilyushin 62 over Chinese airspace.
https://fr24.com/11ac443b

That's his cargo plane with his car and other trinkets.
 
SQueeze
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:29 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
SQueeze wrote:
Is this Kim? Ilyushin 62 over Chinese airspace.
https://fr24.com/11ac443b

That's his cargo plane with his car and other trinkets.


I think the cargo plane is the Il-76 which is about to land in Singapore now (1230pm GMT+8)
The Il-62 is a few hours behind. Currently above Guilin. That should be him ....
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:47 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
SQueeze wrote:
Is this Kim? Ilyushin 62 over Chinese airspace.
https://fr24.com/11ac443b

That's his cargo plane with his car and other trinkets.


P-885 isn't a cargo aircraft. There is only one Il-62 freighter from my understanding operated in Belarus.

P-885 is actually an Air Koryo frame, the only one operated in their livery.
 
vlaakko
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:51 am

Yes, it does seem that Mr Kim is using his private IL-62 for the trip. Plenty of staff and equipment coming on board Air Koryo IL-76 and Air China planes.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nationa ... 52315.html
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:56 am

 
c933103
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:12 am

Perhaps just obstruction tactics as earlier time there were some Japanese politicians that talked about shooting down or hacking his jet (Was there even computer system on IL62M that's possible to be hacked from the ground to a level that can change the destination of the jet?
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JayBCNLON
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Re: Air China 747 just did a round trip to Pyongyang

Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:38 am

CNN reports tweet from Singapore PM “Kim Jong Un having arrived” in SIN. So he must have been on CA 747 rather than his IL62 P-885 which is still in the air for 5 min off SIN right now .

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