FatCat
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:09 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Aviation Herald now has a section for this accident: https://avherald.com/h?article=4b9bfba4&opt=0

A replacement A340-300 registration D-AIGP departed with a delay of two hours.

Wow, not bad.

Pünktlich ;)
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dcajet
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:39 pm

I know, I know... BA did wonders with that 777 after the LAS fire. But this one don't look too good.

Image
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Continental767
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:48 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
dcajet wrote:
I know, I know... BA did wonders with that 777 after the LAS fire. But this one don't look too good.

Image


Yeah, that’s probably not going to buff out ;)
Indianapolis.
 
blooc350
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:01 pm

Thats the same plane that does the daily SJC route--- wonder what they will be sending to SJC now
 
744lover
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Re: LH A340 on fire in FRA now

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:05 pm

juliuswong wrote:
deltadudejg wrote:
FatCat wrote:
However, JADEC tweeted that only minor damage. Assessment underway.
Btw, registration is D-AIFA



I doubt it will a minor damage. Probably all the section forward of L1/R1 will have to be replaced. If not melted, the aluminum might have lost its strength due to the heat. This not speaking, of course, of all electronics, cables, wires, etc.....

Image


BR,
744lover
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:08 pm

N14AZ wrote:
A replacement A340-300 registration D-AIGP departed with a delay of two hours.

Wow, not bad.


And that's probably only because the inbound arrived at the scheduled departure time.
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mjoelnir
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:11 pm

Just take the next A340-300 out of storage.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:17 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Just take the next A340-300 out of storage.


Seems a lot simpler just to write it off with you have a few spares just waiting around
 
PanHAM
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:43 pm

they don't have -300s in storage, jut a few -600s.

There is still enough room for parting out and scrapping what cannot be used anymore on the siouth side of the runway system
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:43 pm

Sad to see that! One less aircraft in the LH fleet (at least for now). And yes, aircraft is confirmed as D-AIFA, with the name 'Dorsten'.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4b9bfba4&opt=0

InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:44 pm

That could bring an A346 back.
 
N415XJ
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:51 pm

The raw version of the video from bild is embedded in this article:

https://sputniknews.com/europe/20180611 ... t-airport/
 
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:52 pm

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
Sad to see that! One less aircraft in the LH fleet (at least for now). And yes, aircraft is confirmed as D-AIFA, with the name 'Dorsten'.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4b9bfba4&opt=0

InnsbruckFlyer


"The airline re-iterated: "das Cockpit wurde massiv durch Rauch beeinträchtigt" (the cockpit was massively affected by smoke) when smoke entered the aircraft."

After seeing the photos, I wouldn't think smoke damage would be their #1 concern.
 
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Re: LH A340 on fire in FRA now

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:53 pm

columba wrote:
AIRT0M wrote:
placeholder wrote:
. They plan to put it back in service 'within days'.


To quote a former German Foreign Minister: "I am not convinced".

The reason why:

https://twitter.com/JacdecNew/status/10 ... 68/photo/1

See the hole in the third picture


Yeah, the scale of the two grown firefighters in gear next to the hole burned through the bottom of the plane shows how big it really is, "within days" would seem pretty optimistic.
 
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ams747757
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:55 pm

Ouch! Doesn't look so good. Thank goodness there were no pax on board. Do we know if the tug driver was injured at all?

I'm flying LH426 in a month or so- guess I know which aircraft reg. Won't be operating that flight.

How many of these A343/city line/*A's does LH need to operate its full schedule + spares? Hopefully losing one either temporarily or permanently doesn't impact the schedule too much but they only have a handful of routes for what is a smallish subfleet for this configuration. I guess they could always take a 346 out of storage and move a non city line 343 to help out?
 
richierich
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:55 pm

To all the posters that reported this as "soot damage" or "minor" burns, please think before you post.
This fire, unfortunately, was clearly not minor and will clearly not "buff right out". While I am not an expert on aircraft repairs, I think we all know that anything affected the front of the aircraft is going to be a lot more complicated because of the expensive avionics and equipment all in one relatively confined space. Because the skin was burned through, I believe this plane is toast (pun intended.)

We can joke only because nobody was hurt or killed. However, this was a very expensive fire even considering the age of the aircraft. There will now be one less A343 gracing the skies, apparently.
None shall pass!!!!
 
airlinedork
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:58 pm

blooc350 wrote:
Thats the same plane that does the daily SJC route--- wonder what they will be sending to SJC now


Daily to SJC? I guess that's why it had just landed from ATL.
 
axiom
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:04 pm

AFAIK LH is in the process of "mainlining" these CL 343 routes, in part by bringing on other aircraft. TPA is about to move to a higher J 343, for example. Perhaps this bigger process will be moved forward, and a 346 brought back in to the fold...
 
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:07 pm

seahawk wrote:
That could bring an A346 back.


Or a 340-300. Enough of them are stored.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: LH A340 on fire in FRA now

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:10 pm

744lover wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
deltadudejg wrote:



I doubt it will a minor damage. Probably all the section forward of L1/R1 will have to be replaced. If not melted, the aluminum might have lost its strength due to the heat. This not speaking, of course, of all electronics, cables, wires, etc.....

Image


BR,
744lover

A fire burned hole that close to an electronics compartment and all the cockpit wiring needs more than a few days.

For an 18 year old A343, probably not a write off, but I'm placing no bets.

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factsonly
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:13 pm

richierich wrote:
We can joke only because nobody was hurt or killed.


'' The flames substantially damaged the aircraft, 10 people received minor injuries.''

http://www.avherald.com
 
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BartSimpson
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:14 pm

N14AZ wrote:
[
Wow, I never saw passengers or a group of visitors walking on the apron in that area of the airport (see at about 0:25). Not the best Timing, I guess..


I don't know how the situation is nowadays but when I worked at the Airport the incident area was my preferred route from office to car park. There are also offices in between the two hangars (you can see the building at about 0:14) So the group of people were more likely Lufthansa or other employees.
 
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:18 pm

I am betting on a write-off.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: LH A340 on fire in FRA now

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:02 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Image
Reminds me a little bit of this jet...

;-)

New AirFrance test livery? :duck:
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Revelation
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:11 pm

Continental767 wrote:
Yeah, that’s probably not going to buff out ;)

Killjoy! :biggrin:

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
Sad to see that! One less aircraft in the LH fleet (at least for now).

And, to be fair, one less airport tug.

People at AirportTugs.Net must be pretty upset.

richierich wrote:
To all the posters that reported this as "soot damage" or "minor" burns, please think before you post.

Thanks for the dose of righteousness.

All the posts I saw and did had complete attribution.

It's up to the reader to decide if what they're reading is significant or not.
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Aptivaboy
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:13 pm

New AirFrance test livery? :duck:


Classic! You win the interweb today.

Actually, it might just be repairable. I know a guy with a rad set of tools...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5cneCgNA9U
 
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fortytwoeyes
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:19 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Or a 340-300. Enough of them are stored.

As far as I can see there's not a single LH 343 stored. Looking further in LH group, Airfleets shows a few Swiss ones stored, but those all seem leased, so it's hard to say whether it would be viable to reactive one of those - and they might even have been scrapped already.

edit: Yep, those have all been scrapped
 
stratclub
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:35 pm

seahawk wrote:
Looks to be mostly soot.

My thoughts exactly. You can that the white paint doesn't really look charred, just blackened from soot and the radome looks intact as well.
 
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:44 pm

Every ex-LH A343 that went into "storage" was scrapped almost immediately or sold onward to places like Iran. Most if not all 300s that left the fleet were the plain jane -300, not the -300X that are still in use.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
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Re: LH A340 on fire in FRA now

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:45 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Image
Reminds me a little bit of this jet...

;-)

New AirFrance test livery? :duck:

I agree, ready to taxi won the interweb today.

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TC957
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:46 pm

LH are about to take delivery of their 11th A350 at MUC so I'm sure one of the MUC-based A333's or A346's can be transferred to FRA to replace poor D-AIFA.
 
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seahawk
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:34 pm

richierich wrote:
To all the posters that reported this as "soot damage" or "minor" burns, please think before you post. .


It is not about thinking, it is about not having the same pictures at the time. The right side looked less damaged.
 
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keesje
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:57 pm

Looking at the intensity and proximity of the fire, the structure around the landing gear probably got a significant unscheduled head treatment, changing material properties & strenght. Fixing that would probably cost more than lease / reconfigure an A343/ A359, or have it in a maintenance hangar for 6 months. The rest value alone probably doesn't justify that.

Image

Oeps, oversaw this picture, slow internet. Forget what I just wrote. A 100% write off.. :worried:

Image
Last edited by keesje on Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Armodeen
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Re: LH A340 on fire in FRA now

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:00 pm

columba wrote:
AIRT0M wrote:
placeholder wrote:
. They plan to put it back in service 'within days'.


To quote a former German Foreign Minister: "I am not convinced".

The reason why:

https://twitter.com/JacdecNew/status/10 ... 68/photo/1

See the hole in the third picture


Certainly looks like FRS staff peering in through a giant hole in the fuselage!

Edit: The pic above shows that that is exactly what it is! A sad end for this graceful airliner!
 
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keesje
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:04 pm

Was it a battery fire?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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BobMUC
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:20 pm

keesje wrote:
Was it a battery fire?


My bet would be an oil leak/fire at the truck. The intense of the fire looked more like coming from a liquid.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:22 pm

Continental767 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
dcajet wrote:
I know, I know... BA did wonders with that 777 after the LAS fire. But this one don't look too good.

Image


Yeah, that’s probably not going to buff out ;)


Only needs some duck tape and a fresh paint job, can't be more than 2 hours of work. :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
IWMBH
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Re: LH A340 on fire in FRA now

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:26 pm

AIRT0M wrote:
placeholder wrote:
Gonna be interesting to see, if it was in fact D-AIGV which was scheduled on LH482 to Tampa later on, what Bird will substitute for it.

I wouldnt hold my hopes up high to see her flying again, the Damage looks pretty substantial on the Nose section even though that Bird is fairly young with just over 18 Years.


According to LH the damaged plane was the D-AIFA and it was supposed to fly to PHL today. They plan to put it back in service 'within days'.



I find this hard to believe. If you see some of the pictures of the amount of damage,it will take at least months to repair this bird.

https://twitter.com/JacdecNew/status/10 ... dschade-op
 
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Narfish641
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:54 pm

Saw it this morning, feel bad for the 10 workers that had to inhale all that smoke. The video looks horrible too, huge hole in the landing gear and the avionics as well are badly damaged (According to The Aviation Herald).
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Super80Fan
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:56 pm

Had to go for the rare A340 didn't we? Couldn't take out a A320, 737, or A330?
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
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GE90man
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:55 pm

dcajet wrote:
I know, I know... BA did wonders with that 777 after the LAS fire. But this one don't look too good.

Image


Holey moly.
 
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Asturias
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:59 pm

Carlos01 wrote:
BobMUC wrote:


Seriously, anyone saying "only minor damage" after seeing that video should probably also go through an "assessment" like the plane.


I agree. The fire seems to have eaten through the fusalage, underneath the cockpit.It's pretty obvious in this video:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6498786/f ... t-updated/

The ash, the heat, the water and foam has definitely caused intense local damage. That's not minor damage, nor is it a question of a "few days" in tech/ops to repair. This could take weeks or more to repair, if it will *ever* be repaired.
Tonight we fly
 
columba
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:21 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Continental767 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
dcajet wrote:
I know, I know... BA did wonders with that 777 after the LAS fire. But this one don't look too good.

Image


Yeah, that’s probably not going to buff out ;)


Only needs some duck tape and a fresh paint job, can't be more than 2 hours of work. :lol:


Well this is an Airbus A340 you are talking about not a Douglas Dc 9 ;-)
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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zeke
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:13 pm

dcajet wrote:
I know, I know... BA did wonders with that 777 after the LAS fire. But this one don't look too good.

Image


I think that is the end of the aircraft, the avionics bay is under the cockpit.

An idea of what’s in that space https://www.clipzui.com/video/z2i435z3d ... 41653.html
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Wacker1000
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Re: LH A340 on fire in FRA now

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:21 pm

juliuswong wrote:

However, JADEC tweeted that only minor damage. Assessment underway. https://twitter.com/JacdecNew/status/10 ... 1610240000


Most aviation professionals would not call a melted hole in the skin "minor".
 
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kc135topboom
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:29 am

The fire burned into the avionics bay, probably also took out all the wiring harnesses too. My guess she is going to be scrapped. She will not be worth much without avionics. Yeah the engines will be salvaged and the flight control surfaces, along with the generators and hydraulic parts. The engines won't be worth much. they only fit the A-340-200/-300.

As far as the actual scrapping, that can be done at any airport. They will bring in contractors who do that kind of work. I'm sure there are plenty of scrapping contractors around the EU who would bid on the work.
 
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Narfish641
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:48 am

kc135topboom wrote:
The fire burned into the avionics bay, probably also took out all the wiring harnesses too. My guess she is going to be scrapped. She will not be worth much without avionics. Yeah the engines will be salvaged and the flight control surfaces, along with the generators and hydraulic parts. The engines won't be worth much. they only fit the A-340-200/-300.

As far as the actual scrapping, that can be done at any airport. They will bring in contractors who do that kind of work. I'm sure there are plenty of scrapping contractors around the EU who would bid on the work.


If I have to take a good guess on the amount of A343 flying now, it's well under 90. But at least there will be spare engines for the rest of the CFM56 powered quad jets still flying around for different airlines.
Flew on:
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lightsaber
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:53 am

Asturias wrote:
Carlos01 wrote:
BobMUC wrote:


Seriously, anyone saying "only minor damage" after seeing that video should probably also go through an "assessment" like the plane.


I agree. The fire seems to have eaten through the fusalage, underneath the cockpit.It's pretty obvious in this video:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6498786/f ... t-updated/

The ash, the heat, the water and foam has definitely caused intense local damage. That's not minor damage, nor is it a question of a "few days" in tech/ops to repair. This could take weeks or more to repair, if it will *ever* be repaired.

I believe the decision will be left to the insurance and LH.

There is some cost to scrap at FRA (vs. a profit flown out). I believe the damage is less than the insured residual value, so likely the insurance company will offer to repair. Will LH or will they negotiate for a transfer of funds? I don't know. It will depend on the damage. It will depend on LH's timeline for continued A343 operation. It will depend on how well LH calculates the economics.

We're in a widebody glut. It might be more economical to purchase a used A333?

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Bjm0517
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Re: LH A340 damaged by pushback tug fire at FRA

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:12 am

juliuswong wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Bjm0517 wrote:
I hope Lufthansa will repair this bird, the A340 is such an amazing aircraft and I would hope to see this one go in such a negative way. :ashamed:

But if it does get scrapped, can that even happen at FRA? I mean they can store it but if they scrap it will it have to be repaired enough to fly to a scrapping-Capable airport? I hope it will not come to that.

I follow the "movements" in FRA since the beginning of the 1980ies but I cannot remember of a single jet that was scrapped in FRA.

I remember a LH-B742 that was transferred to HHN (less than 100km, give or take) just to be scrapped there: http://www.aviationpics.de/scrap/abyq/page_01.htm

Talking about....
juliuswong wrote:
The Singapore Airlines B777-212ER 9V-SQK suffered same fate last year. It was written off recently after in storage for more than seven months.

Has it been scrapped in Singapore?

Flew into SIN recently, she was stripped all title and logo, parked in front of SIAEC. Guess she is not going anywhere soon.

Such a sad ending to a mighty bird. 15 years old, and just got cabin refit last year before her fiery ending in Nov 2017.



It is a sad ending to such a mighty aircraft, I even saw this bird somewhere, it is one of my earliest memories, super sad to see her go :crying:
 
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Re: LH A340 on fire in FRA now

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:30 am

744lover wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
deltadudejg wrote:



I doubt it will a minor damage. Probably all the section forward of L1/R1 will have to be replaced. If not melted, the aluminum might have lost its strength due to the heat. This not speaking, of course, of all electronics, cables, wires, etc.....

Image


BR,
744lover

With this image, I have to agree she is a toast! I will be surprised if she is fixed. The SQ B772ER was damaged to lesser extend (well, at least there is no hole on that 777), but she was written off by insurer. Tried uploading a close up picture here, but my office blocks all upload photo website.
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