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rotating14
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TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:44 am

https://www.thenational.ae/business/avi ... s-1.738846


TK is in the process of studying data from the 777x and other ultra long haul aircraft for a potential order. While the TK executive is not a quoted specifying the 777x, I see this RFP similar to that of SQs RFP. What's interesting is that he suggests a small trial order to before a large order to follow.


Following the feasibility study, the airline may look into a "trial" order to try out the aircraft within its fleet before potentially making the "main" order, Mr Ayci said.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:48 am

Interesting development. How many routes besides MEL/BNE/SYD/AKL and nearby would need the 778X from IST? Maybe EZE/SCL nonstop?
 
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rotating14
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:27 am

The TK chairman stressed that TK wants to increase its current frequencies so I'd imagine that more flights to Oceania and the continent of Australia make the most sense. Maybe even the west coast of the US.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:40 am

rotating14 wrote:
https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/turkish-airlines-in-talks-with-boeing-on-777x-jet-order-for-ultra-long-haul-plans-1.738846


TK is in the process of studying data from the 777x and other ultra long haul aircraft for a potential order. While the TK executive is not a quoted specifying the 777x, I see this RFP similar to that of SQs RFP. What's interesting is that he suggests a small trial order to before a large order to follow.


Following the feasibility study, the airline may look into a "trial" order to try out the aircraft within its fleet before potentially making the "main" order, Mr Ayci said.

A trial order sounds to me they want to lease first, short term, perhaps from another airline. They did that with their 77W's too, leasing surplus aircraft from Jet Airways.

So which airlines have A350s/777X on order and potentially have ordered too many? (cough Etihad cough) :mrgreen:
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
juliuswong
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:58 am

frigatebird wrote:
rotating14 wrote:
https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/turkish-airlines-in-talks-with-boeing-on-777x-jet-order-for-ultra-long-haul-plans-1.738846


TK is in the process of studying data from the 777x and other ultra long haul aircraft for a potential order. While the TK executive is not a quoted specifying the 777x, I see this RFP similar to that of SQs RFP. What's interesting is that he suggests a small trial order to before a large order to follow.


Following the feasibility study, the airline may look into a "trial" order to try out the aircraft within its fleet before potentially making the "main" order, Mr Ayci said.

A trial order sounds to me they want to lease first, short term, perhaps from another airline. They did that with their 77W's too, leasing surplus aircraft from Jet Airways.

So which airlines have A350s/777X on order and potentially have ordered too many? (cough Etihad cough) :mrgreen:

40 A350-941 and 22 A350-1041.......Hahaha
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jfk777
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:18 am

Beyond flying to Sydney nonstop from IST where is Turkish going to fly for 18 hours ? No where I can find since they already fly to Los Angeles and Tokyo nonstop from their hub. A 777-9 as a 77W replacement would be logical, if they need a plane to fly nonstop to Santiago & Buenos Aires their newly ordered A350 or 787-9 can fly there nonstop. Istanbul's location does not warrant Ultra long haul planes, the planes they have can fly as far as their need.
 
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TK787
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:47 am

-TK has 53 wide body and 167 narrow body jets on order. New Istanbul airport with initial capacity 90M pax is to open this year.
-TK does not have flights to Oceania. Already flies to SFO, LAX, GRU, EZE.
-25 789s and 25 359s are starting to arrive 2019/2020.
-777X is the logical next step to 77W.
-TK might/should add frequencies to LAX.
-Personally I would love to see JFK-SAW(Istanbul's second airport) instead of a 4th JFK-IST daily.
-TK needs to get more slots somehow in India and China and to some extent; Canada.
-Only other long hauls I could see.... 4 more destinations in the US, long awaited MEX, IST-SYD just to join the 6 continent club and few new destinations in S.America and few more Japan/Korea cities.
 
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Richard28
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:12 pm

TK787 wrote:
-777X is the logical next step to 77W.


or A35K?
 
bunumuring
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:25 pm

Hey guys,
Turkish flying to Sydney seems to be inevitable : but will it be nonstop on the often-speculated ULH aircraft that they HAVEN'T ordered yet... Or will it be one stop via somewhere like Bangkok, Singapore or even Jakarta/Bali using existing 777-300ERs initially followed by A350s or Dreamliners?
I can't imagine Turkish flying nonstop to both Sydney and Melbourne daily. Perhaps nonstop to one and one-stop to the other or so me other combination of services.
I always thought that Qantas' 'Project Sunrise' would attract attention from other airlines. I think Air New Zealand would definitely be following it for their projected new widebody order (see separate thread) and now potentially Turkish Airlines. Maybe the winner of 'Project Sunrise' will scoop the pool : but what a small pool it will be!
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TK787
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:41 pm

As always the case, when we talk about TK and ULH only one destination ends up being talked about; SYD.
-TK could have flown to SYD one stop anytime. Not doable without taking huge penalties today.
-Like I've said many times, TK will do IST-SYD one day, nonstop, only to be a part of the 6 continent club. It might lose money on this segment but will make up for it with its connections; having the best situated hub, IST and holding the title "the airline that flies to most countries".
 
tealnz
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:54 pm

Still-air distance ESB-SYD is around 250nm further than LAX-SIN. Around the same as PER-LHR. An hour shorter than SIN-EWR. I would assume TK could launch Sydney with a 280t standard A350 even if they need to block a few seats westbound for seasonal winds.
 
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TK787
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:04 pm

tealnz wrote:
Still-air distance ESB-SYD is around 250nm further than LAX-SIN. Around the same as PER-LHR. An hour shorter than SIN-EWR. I would assume TK could launch Sydney with a 280t standard A350 even if they need to block a few seats westbound for seasonal winds.

Not going to happen. TK does not have the Business Customer base to be able to serve IST-SYD with 160 seats :)
 
c933103
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:06 pm

How about AKL?
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sabby
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:29 pm

TK787 wrote:
tealnz wrote:
Still-air distance ESB-SYD is around 250nm further than LAX-SIN. Around the same as PER-LHR. An hour shorter than SIN-EWR. I would assume TK could launch Sydney with a 280t standard A350 even if they need to block a few seats westbound for seasonal winds.

Not going to happen. TK does not have the Business Customer base to be able to serve IST-SYD with 160 seats :)

IST-SYD is just under 8100nm, the official range of standard A350 with 325 pax + bags. ESB-SYD is even shorter. So I think they can manage with a 300 pax payload to fly non-stop to Sydney.
The real problem is flying ULH non-stop requires a high fare premium which I doubt TK can charge. Besides, if the pax have to go through a hub anyway, I think it has been proven that Aus/NZ pax prefer SIN than any other hubs in Asia. Those who are going to UK have another option in the QF non-stop via Perth.
 
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Kindanew
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:34 pm

So this is why Airbus are suddenly so interested in ULR A350 variants?
 
Chaostheory
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:38 pm

There will likely be a political component to any order as is often the case for airlines from troublesome regions.

Turkey is currently being threatened with an F-35 embargo so a Boeing order to push things along wouldn't surprise me. The Qataris did the same with the 737max order to push through the F-15.
 
tealnz
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:29 pm

Kindanew wrote:
So this is why Airbus are suddenly so interested in ULR A350 variants?

Seems part of a pattern. Benchmark used to be effective 744/77E/77W range. 359/778 (and 789 with reduced payloads) offer a step-change both in effective range and in fuel cost compared to 77L and A345. All sorts of airlines are looking at new routes that just weren't feasible or economic with previous generation aircraft.
 
Arion640
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:39 pm

juliuswong wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
rotating14 wrote:
https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/turkish-airlines-in-talks-with-boeing-on-777x-jet-order-for-ultra-long-haul-plans-1.738846


TK is in the process of studying data from the 777x and other ultra long haul aircraft for a potential order. While the TK executive is not a quoted specifying the 777x, I see this RFP similar to that of SQs RFP. What's interesting is that he suggests a small trial order to before a large order to follow.



A trial order sounds to me they want to lease first, short term, perhaps from another airline. They did that with their 77W's too, leasing surplus aircraft from Jet Airways.

So which airlines have A350s/777X on order and potentially have ordered too many? (cough Etihad cough) :mrgreen:

40 A350-941 and 22 A350-1041.......Hahaha


Considering the rate of contraction where those planes will fly I really don't know.
1973-2020
 
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OA940
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:42 pm

This is 777X 100%. They have a large 77W fleet, for which the 779 would be a great next step, and the 778 would cover their ULH needs while keeping commonality. Then again for Oceania they could use the 789/359 too...
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LAXintl
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:46 pm

Little tidbit, TK is one of the dozen airlines invited and still participating in the 777X design definition project, so they are quite familiar with the model.
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lightsaber
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:49 pm

I'm of the opinion TK smells blood in the water with over-ordering of widebodies:

juliuswong wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
rotating14 wrote:
https://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/turkish-airlines-in-talks-with-boeing-on-777x-jet-order-for-ultra-long-haul-plans-1.738846


TK is in the process of studying data from the 777x and other ultra long haul aircraft for a potential order. While the TK executive is not a quoted specifying the 777x, I see this RFP similar to that of SQs RFP. What's interesting is that he suggests a small trial order to before a large order to follow.



A trial order sounds to me they want to lease first, short term, perhaps from another airline. They did that with their 77W's too, leasing surplus aircraft from Jet Airways.

So which airlines have A350s/777X on order and potentially have ordered too many? (cough Etihad cough) :mrgreen:

40 A350-941 and 22 A350-1041.......Hahaha

Trial sounds like negotiations. EY and Boeing would love TK to take over slots on the 777X, ideally with a top off order...

Same with EY and Airbus. EY pays less, but pays some penalties. TK pays much less! You cannot receive a large discount without negotiations...

Lightsaber
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imthedreamliner
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:29 pm

Definitely 777X order. No chance for Airbus here.ULH belongs to Boeing.
 
Armodeen
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:47 pm

imthedreamliner wrote:
Definitely 777X order. No chance for Airbus here.ULH belongs to Boeing.


I’m not so certain. 280t A359 can do IST-SYD most likely with a useful payload, and if it doesn’t work out you can just redeploy it elsewhere without a big hit to the bottom line (as you would get with the 778, a more specialised frame, and also with an A35K shrink).

TK is actually fairly cautious about new ideas, and they already have a goodly number of A350s on order. It’s the less risky move to test the water.

Politics will likely be at play also though as mentioned up thread.
 
Galwayman
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:58 pm

If the ULH aircraft is just for Oz, they shouldn’t really bother , it’s not that important - they should stay focussed and avoid complications to fleet .
 
pzurita1
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:27 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Beyond flying to Sydney nonstop from IST where is Turkish going to fly for 18 hours ?

Though not really a 18hrs route, MEX could very well benefit from ULR aircraft. It is known its high altitude has been a deterrent for the ME3 and TK from serving the city.
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yellowtail
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:24 pm

MEX, LIM and BOG would definitely be on the list. The latter is served via PTY but really needs a n/s
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
juliuswong
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Re: TK mulls ULH aircraft order

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:13 am

lightsaber wrote:
I'm of the opinion TK smells blood in the water with over-ordering of widebodies:

juliuswong wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
A trial order sounds to me they want to lease first, short term, perhaps from another airline. They did that with their 77W's too, leasing surplus aircraft from Jet Airways.

So which airlines have A350s/777X on order and potentially have ordered too many? (cough Etihad cough) :mrgreen:

40 A350-941 and 22 A350-1041.......Hahaha

Trial sounds like negotiations. EY and Boeing would love TK to take over slots on the 777X, ideally with a top off order...

Same with EY and Airbus. EY pays less, but pays some penalties. TK pays much less! You cannot receive a large discount without negotiations...

Lightsaber

Yes, I agree with you on this. Etihad slots for A359/K are certainly look pretty valuable now as both are scheduled to arrive with EY in 2020, same time as TK flirting with ULH. EY has 25 B77X on order, certainly nicer compared to 62 A350. B777X will be slightly off with first protoype being made available in late 2019. I can see the order can go either way. TK livery will look good in either.
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