steveinbc
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:17 am

In a free market people can decide what airline they want to fly. Provided of course they offer non-halal meals for those who don't want them...in the same way as almost every airline offers halal and kosher meals
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SCQ83
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:55 am

LAXLHR wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
With that plane they are not going to fly to any Muslim country anyway. Not even Morocco. Maybe they can reach Brussels though.

Which could be their first scheduled destinations? I could see Gran Canaria, Ibiza, Mykonos and Tel Aviv being successful for them.


Yes, Tel Aviv SHOULD be their first choice for sure. LMAO!! Someone SCQ83, needs to brush up on a few things ;-)


In fact TLV would make the most sense out of those 4. Israel is home to a large Muslim population, TLV is the de-facto airport for Palestinians and Haredim (Orthodox) Jews would not have any issue with a carrier where FAs have "modest clothing" and no pork on board. I have transited a few times in CAI and it is not uncommon to see groups of Haredim at the airport. Certainly they are not put off by EgyptAir's alcohol-free flights.
 
flybry
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:21 am

I wonder if gays would be allowed to fly this airline?
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:27 am

*shrugs*

Good luck but I don't see they'll have enough of a market to sustain themselves. The only 2 major differences they could offer are cabin crew dress and no alcohol on the flight. Which I'm not sure are enough of a selling point.

My guess is this will flare out long before a first flight happens.
 
Arion640
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:37 am

flybry wrote:
I wonder if gays would be allowed to fly this airline?


That's a fair point. I doubt they would feel welcome onboard.
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Strato2
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:01 am

Any attempts to establish a side society need to be outlawed and punished harshly. Too bad most Europeans are like lambs. There are only few exceptions like Hungary and Poland that care about their people.
 
FatCat
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:10 am

sw733 wrote:
I can't get over the "Halal Richard Branson" nickname. Hilarious.

I'm sorry but you don't laugh when Amikam Cohen called himself the "Kosher Richard Branson".
That's racist. :rotfl: :rotfl:
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ltbewr
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:25 am

There may be a niche for a '100% Sharia compliant' airline within the EC, but one that is too small to be financially viable and might run into conflicts with EC regulations.
In part, the idea of such a specialized service airline being considered is that it is becoming more difficult for many airlines to comply with religious rules demanded by some of certain faiths. That includes not seating non-family men and women together, conflicts from allowing for prayer, food/beverage choices and not cause conflict with those not of the same faith or interpretation of a faith or are non-religious. More crowded planes so more difficult to accommodate seating needs, costs to provide special food/beverages, less revenues from less sales of alcoholic beverages, are affecting both airlines and customers.
 
mats01776
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:28 am

sw733 wrote:
I can't get over the "Halal Richard Branson" nickname. Hilarious.

Somehow, the name "72 Virgins Airlines" popped into my head.
 
sw733
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:56 am

FatCat wrote:
sw733 wrote:
I can't get over the "Halal Richard Branson" nickname. Hilarious.

I'm sorry but you don't laugh when Amikam Cohen called himself the "Kosher Richard Branson".
That's racist. :rotfl: :rotfl:

Never heard of this person, but if true, it's equally hilarious. "Halal Richard Branson" rolls off my tongue more smoothly, though.
 
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WingsFan
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:19 pm

LH658 wrote:
Why call it Sharia Airline, just don't serve booze, pork etc, so non Muslim would buy ticket without knowing until he on board. Telling people you are sharia airline is gunna drive Non Muslim probably away.


That is exactly what I was thinking. Frankly, none of the things he plans to do (and not do) running this airline is a deal breaker for any ordinary flyer. No booze? No problem as most don't buy booze on every flight anyway. No pork? No dig deal as along as they offer other good meal options. Modestly dressed attendants? Good! I would much prefer a good service over fashionably dressed attendants any day. Labeling it a sharia airline only hurts them.

Similarly, shunning this venture just because the owner is a Muslim and this is a sharia compliant airline is equally ridiculous. How does this has anything to do with islamization? As long as they comply with local laws it should be no bid deal.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:06 pm

Wow... the stereotypes are ramped here...
Would we have the same discussion if we had a Cristian Airline, Orthodox Airline or Buddhist Airline?
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enilria
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:11 pm

vhqpa wrote:
"Modestly dressed flight attendants"

The FA uniforms seem low key.

Image
 
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sturmovik
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:22 pm

I'd be interested seeing the Venn Diagram between people on here who defended a certain cake shop and people freaking out about Sharia on this thread. Two nearly overlapping circles, I should think.

On a more serious note, though, while I don't agree with him completely, I can see some things going for Kazi. Religion can be a good way of accessing loyalty, as much as I dislike the notion. Also, for those saying that you should just ask for water on a regular airline instead of booze as opposed to flying a halal airline, that's like saying vegans should just order the one vegan option on a restaurant's menu as opposed to going to a vegan restaurant. The airport environment is one where Muslims are likely treated with elevated levels of suspicion, and if an airline holds the promise of not calling security on you just because you engaged in your daily prayer, I can see Muslims warming to that idea.

Also, Alaska used to mix religion with running an airline for a long time.
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ckfred
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:30 pm

I guess this proposed airline would be the opposite of Hooters Air. Although, there was only one Hooters girl on any given flight, and she simply helped out with food and beverage service. The actual flight attendants wore the typical blue uniforms (blouse, with or without a jacket and skirt/pants).

But seriously, people often will make money off things that might be frowned upon by their faiths. I can't think of a full service Marriott hotel that doesn't have a bar, let alone a liquor license. Yet, the Marriott family, which founded the hotel chain and still has an ownership interest in the company belongs to the Mormon Church (LDS) which prohibits its members from consuming alcohol.

My wife knew of a couple of newsstands, back in her student days in London, that were owned by people from the Middle East, and they had British Playboy and other porn magazines.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:31 pm

Remember Smintair? Stands for "Smokers International Air" and was intended to operate DUS NRT with a 747 Even though many Asians smoke and DUS has a large Japanese community, they never got off the ground. We have 160 airlines in Europe, most of them struggle to stay in Business. Finding a niche market is a key to stay in Business, I dount that they have the right niche in mind. Especially since that niche is already covered by Saudia, Royal Brnei, KU and the Iranian carriers
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enilria
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:33 pm

sturmovik wrote:
I'd be interested seeing the Venn Diagram between people on here who defended a certain cake shop and people freaking out about Sharia on this thread. Two nearly overlapping circles, I should think.

On a more serious note, though, while I don't agree with him completely, I can see some things going for Kazi. Religion can be a good way of accessing loyalty, as much as I dislike the notion. Also, for those saying that you should just ask for water on a regular airline instead of booze as opposed to flying a halal airline, that's like saying vegans should just order the one vegan option on a restaurant's menu as opposed to going to a vegan restaurant. The airport environment is one where Muslims are likely treated with elevated levels of suspicion, and if an airline holds the promise of not calling security on you just because you engaged in your daily prayer, I can see Muslims warming to that idea.

Also, Alaska used to mix religion with running an airline for a long time.

Republic Airways which is buddies with AA/DL/UA is also super-religious and had a policy of diverting flights if a passenger is watching something on a personal device with nudity. That resulted in at least one diversion. Not sure if it is still in place, but there was an old thread about it.
 
shankly
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:35 pm

Whenever I fly out of LHR (typically with BA or EK down to JNB or CPT) I always order a halal meal as the local caterers rustle up a cracking ruby murray….which of course should be enjoyed with a beer or four

His airline will of course have to comply with National and International aviation standards ahead of any sharia bolt ons
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cv990Coronado
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:06 pm

Well the best of luck to him, I doubt it will be the first choice for the "stag weekend trips"
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Arion640
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:15 pm

shankly wrote:
Whenever I fly out of LHR (typically with BA or EK down to JNB or CPT) I always order a halal meal as the local caterers rustle up a cracking ruby murray….which of course should be enjoyed with a beer or four

His airline will of course have to comply with National and International aviation standards ahead of any sharia bolt ons


I'm very much against halal. Such a cruel way of killing an animal.
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flydude380
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:24 pm

Why would that aircraft need crew and how does he expect it to reach any Muslim country?! Besides, there are plenty of Shariah-Compliant airlines out there, such as Saudi Airlines and Malaysia. Next!
 
Jetty
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:25 pm

flydude380 wrote:
Why would that aircraft need crew and how does he expect it to reach any Muslim country?! Besides, there are plenty of Shariah-Compliant airlines out there, such as Saudi Airlines and Malaysia. Next!

Why would it need to reach a Muslim country? There are millions of Muslims in Europe and that number is growing rapidly due to migration and higher fertility among Muslims. I'm very much against this airline, but if Muslims would favor a Sharia airline there is a market without a destination in any Muslim country.
 
tonyban
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:44 pm

This will never work. Slightly off-topic but an another airline called Akal Air began service a few years back with service from Birmingham to Amritsar via Vienna. This airline also claimed it would cater to Sikh clientele, though not as extreme as a sharia one.
To cut a long story short, a few days later, on its Vienna stop, all passengers were asked to disembark and withdrawal as much cash as possible so the airline could pay its airport fees. It shut operations a few days later. Any sharia paying folks are gonna want the lowest fare possible. The airline will never turn a profit. I give it 2-weeks max.
 
csavel
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:02 pm

From the article: "His story is now going to be told in How To Start An Airline"

Why do I feel this is less about starting an airline, Sharia-compliant or not and more about promoting the documentary and himself as new niche reality TV star. The airline is just a storyline.
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CrimsonNL
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:10 pm

I've been following them on Facebook for a while. It's quite interesting, though most posts are about them seeking investors. That J31 looks gorgeous though, but I don't think it made any flights just yet.

Also I'm amazed by how crazy people on Anet go when they are presented an airline that doesn't serve alcohol. You'd think everyone here is a borderline alcoholic from all those responses. I enjoy a beer (or 8) as much as the next guy, but I'm perfectly fine with not drinking on my flights..

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49Paralell
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:14 pm

I am going to tell you straight out that the Iranians are the kindest, most hospitable people on earth.


I agree with this opinion as I too work with Iranians in Canada. Tolerance is key, the question is whether a middle east religious business model fits in with a target audience in Britain. Virgin and the real Branson will gobble this up!
 
devron
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:20 pm

So we Joon to cater to the milleniums and this to cater for the sharia community. Where is my gluten free airline?
 
AAMDanny
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:22 pm

Me and my same sex partner wish them only the best....

Sure the limited business model will thrive in the UK regional market. FlyBe better watch out!
 
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yowza
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:29 pm

I would love to see the market sizing and market entry studies behind this venture. Anyone else watch the video? https://youtu.be/SEuIx7UfZUc
*facepalm*
 
VSMUT
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:36 pm

devron wrote:
So we Joon to cater to the milleniums and this to cater for the sharia community. Where is my gluten free airline?


"Caters" :duck: It's just a meagre attempt at disguising the fact that it is a LCC with no service at all. You actually have to serve something to cater to sharia, gluten free's or millenials ;)
 
bennett123
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:37 pm

Personally, I doubt this will fly.

However, I do not see having no drink on board should stop them getting an AOC.

The reaction of some on here to a dry flight some suggest a need for alcohol bordering on addiction.
 
goosebayguy
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:18 pm

I've flown Saudia so this would be no problem at all. I hope the guy makes it.
 
Arion640
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:21 pm

devron wrote:
So we Joon to cater to the milleniums and this to cater for the sharia community. Where is my gluten free airline?


And a lactose intolerance airline.
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peterinlisbon
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:38 pm

I don't see the point of an airline with policies that would alienate 90% of the flying public in the country that they are based in. Unless they are flying Haj charters, I don't see this taking off. I flew Royal Jordanian airlines and I remember sipping red whine as we passed over Saudi Arabia. If an Arab airline like that has to take international passengers into account, then how can a British airline attract customers by refusing to and imposing some kind of religious law on the passengers.
 
Cunard
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:42 am

After watching the show on TV I personally can't take it seriously, all I got out of it was that the young gentleman in question who is obviously very enthusiastic was a former aircraft cleaner at LCY and has an obvious interest in aviation, that doesn't necessarily give him the skills to start up such an ambitious airline.
 
Antarius
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:30 am

Cunard wrote:
After watching the show on TV I personally can't take it seriously, all I got out of it was that the young gentleman in question who is obviously very enthusiastic was a former aircraft cleaner at LCY and has an obvious interest in aviation, that doesn't necessarily give him the skills to start up such an ambitious airline.


And yet people are talking about it here.

Hes taking the LaVar Ball startegy to drum up interest.
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kitplane01
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:59 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Let people decide who they want to fly. As long as people aren't denied passage, they can choose to serve - or not serve - whatever they want. They just need to be clear up front about what their mission is if that's the case.


I think, under British law, you cannot deny service to someone just because that person is Jewish, gay, black, etc. Is this right? And do you propose changing that law?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:30 am

Could work on ethnic routes. But how many are there for a Jetstream?
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:06 am

I watched the TV doc last night on UK television. The way it ended was farcical, showing him taking a plane load of potential investors up in the freshly resprayed Jetstream. His business partner walked out in frustration and we were left with a caption suggesting he had crowdfunding of around £340,000 which he 'preferred to express in USD' because it was a larger number. His halal catering consisted of non alcoholic 'mocktails'. I wasn't so much reminded of Richard Branson as Martin Halstead (remember him?) I assume the project to be dead and buried by now, going by the closing narrative of the film ?
 
Hship
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:45 am

OGLOBAL wrote:
when we people understand that sharia airline sharia law doesn't exist . sharia means following the five elements of islam : fasting praying giving money to the poor pilgrim and FOLLOWING the law of the land you are at .


I have to give credit where credit is due; contradicting yourself in one paragraph is an art. First you state Shariah doesn’t exist and then you go on to define the non-existing thing for us. Take a peek at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_noncontradiction

What do you mean Shariah Law doesn’t exist? You are insensitive Islamophobic bigot. Allow Islam to define itself. It is not for you define it with your Western blinders on. It is not for you to remove the parts of Islam you don’t like. Sticking your head in a hole doesn’t make you look as tolerant as you think. It makes you a clown.

If Shariah is a non-existing thing as suggested above, what exactly were/are ISIS and Boko Haram trying to enforce? What are Mutaween enforcing? What are the point of the buildings known as ‘Shariah Courts’? What are thousands of Islamic Muftis (juristic scholars) from numerous schools of thought spending their time on?
Now, experts can discuss at length the correct interpretation of Shariah, but to pretend it doesn’t exist is a fool’s errand. If you don’t read books, at least read Wikipedia.

If there are aspects of Islam that leave a sour taste in the mouth, it is not your job to deny and redefine that religion. It is the job of Muslim scholars. Your job is to not spread lies – whether pro or against Islam.

Before you try to chastise those of us who discuss Shariah (and in this case its possible implication on the aviation industry) perhaps you need to educate yourself on Islam.

1) You listed four of the pillars and added your own imaginary pillar – that makes you a bigot, ignorant or both. In case you’re interested in the truth, the Five Pillars of Islam are:
a. Shahada: Declaration of faith
b. Salah: Five daily prayers
c. Zakāt: Giving to charity
d. Sawm: Fasting (ritual, repentance and ascetic)
e. Hajj: Pilgrimage to Mecca
2) Shariah is not the same as the Five Pillars of Islam. Anyone claiming it is, is proclaiming their ignorance from the rooftops. In Islam, Shariah governs societal interactions, while the Five Pillars are personal and salvific.
3) There are mountains of books on what Shariah is, but here is a quick summary:
Shariah is not a universal codified set of rules, but principles drawn from the Qur’an and Hadith and interpreted by Muftis (jurists) and Qadi (judges). Shariah is applied to various extents in all of Muslim life, including family, civil and criminal law. Shariah dictates, with various extent and interpretations:
i. Laws regarding adultery, fornication, rape, drinking intoxicants, theft and murder
ii. Inheritance rights and value of testimony of women
iii. Marriage contracts
iv. Custody rights of children
v. Relationship and respect towards parents and elders
vi. Freedom of thought, conscience and religion – extent varies depending on the prominent school of thought in power
vii. Penalties for converting from Islam
viii. Non-Muslims only being worthy of a third to a half the Diya (compensation for death or bodily harm) as a Muslim
ix. Sexual relations - with penalties dependent on the prominent school of thought in power
x. Laws and taxing regarding Dhimmah (non-Muslims in an Islamic state)
xi. Many other aspects that form part of legal and civil society

spinotter wrote:

No, listen. We have to be tolerant of other beliefs and ways of living, as long as they do the same with us. And most Muslims do that. I lived in Iran for two years and I am going to tell you straight out that the Iranians are the kindest, most hospitable people on earth. Ditto for all Middle Easterners, although I know the other countries less. We have to stop fighting and disrespecting each other. Their culture and pride was savaged by the Western colonial powers and Israel. So they cling to their religion. Over time we can change that relationship, I hope. So a Sharia airline for people who observe Sharia, champagne and paté de foie gras on Air France, and no perks whatsoever on Spirit. Why not?


First, while I haven’t had the privilege of ever travelling to Iran, I have heard from many sources about the kindness and hospitality of the general Iranian population. That said:
• I think you should be made aware of the fact that nationality or race is not the same as being a Muslim. A Muslim is an adherent of the Islamic religion. An Iranian is a person of Iranian descent or nationality, whether a Muslim, Christian, Zoroastrian or atheist.
• Saying all Muslim are horrible people because of ISIS is prejudicial. Saying all Muslims are wonderful people because of kind Iranians is just as prejudicial.

Without hijacking the topic of this thread too much, just blaming foreign powers for everything (especially a tiny state with a population of a mere 8.5 million) is pathetic. While a discussion can be held (elsewhere) over who is responsible to what degree, you must start with acknowledging faults on both sides.
You might also want to take a gander at the above Wikipedia link. You state: “We have to stop fighting and disrespecting each other”, yet go on to (verbally) fight and disrespect “Western colonial powers and Israel”.

Getting back to the topic at hand, any freedom loving person shouldn’t have a problem with this venture. Provided those providing the capital are happy with the way their money is invested, Rahman can invest it as he wants. If he has found a niche market and can make it succeed, good for him. If he can’t, too bad, his problem. Regulation should be neither for or against this venture just because it is a “Shariah airline”.

I would go further and insist he should even be allowed to decide whether he only wants Muslims (or only Jews or Christians for that matter) on his aircraft. However, if the market decides it doesn’t want his product because he discriminates on those criteria, he also shouldn’t be surprised to find his company in the bankruptcy court
 
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PPVLC
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:46 am

I never drink when flying, I don't like pork and I don't care if the crew is modestly dressed or wearing hot pants- these points are not relevant for thousands of people flying around but I still don't think it's a solid idea...
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chonetsao
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:38 am

AAMDanny wrote:
Me and my same sex partner wish them only the best....

Sure the limited business model will thrive in the UK regional market. FlyBe better watch out!


I am not sure Flybe needs to watch out. I mean a market that is good for Bradford - Birmingham, Blackburn - Leicester? I think the train operator CrossCountry needs to watch out!
 
Virtual737
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:22 am

FlyRow wrote:
Wow... the stereotypes are ramped here...
Would we have the same discussion if we had a Cristian Airline, Orthodox Airline or Buddhist Airline?


I doubt we would ever see anyone attempt a "Christian" Airline because the backlash from non-Christians, especially the uber strict parts of some other religions would be up in arms. Heck, in the UK such a name for an airline would probably be blocked by government just in case it offends someone in our multi cultural success-story example to the world.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:25 am

PPVLC wrote:
I never drink when flying, I don't like pork and I don't care if the crew is modestly dressed or wearing hot pants- these points are not relevant for thousands of people flying around but I still don't think it's a solid idea...


Exactly. This airline might only appeal to people that don't like anyone else eating pork or drinking as well as themselves. I can not eat pork and not drink on any airline in the world already.
 
OGLOBAL
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Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:00 pm

Hship wrote:
OGLOBAL wrote:
when we people understand that sharia airline sharia law doesn't exist . sharia means following the five elements of islam : fasting praying giving money to the poor pilgrim and FOLLOWING the law of the land you are at .


I have to give credit where credit is due; contradicting yourself in one paragraph is an art. First you state Shariah doesn’t exist and then you go on to define the non-existing thing for us. Take a peek at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_noncontradiction

What do you mean Shariah Law doesn’t exist? You are insensitive Islamophobic bigot. Allow Islam to define itself. It is not for you define it with your Western blinders on. It is not for you to remove the parts of Islam you don’t like. Sticking your head in a hole doesn’t make you look as tolerant as you think. It makes you a clown.

If Shariah is a non-existing thing as suggested above, what exactly were/are ISIS and Boko Haram trying to enforce? What are Mutaween enforcing? What are the point of the buildings known as ‘Shariah Courts’? What are thousands of Islamic Muftis (juristic scholars) from numerous schools of thought spending their time on?
Now, experts can discuss at length the correct interpretation of Shariah, but to pretend it doesn’t exist is a fool’s errand. If you don’t read books, at least read Wikipedia.

If there are aspects of Islam that leave a sour taste in the mouth, it is not your job to deny and redefine that religion. It is the job of Muslim scholars. Your job is to not spread lies – whether pro or against Islam.

Before you try to chastise those of us who discuss Shariah (and in this case its possible implication on the aviation industry) perhaps you need to educate yourself on Islam.

1) You listed four of the pillars and added your own imaginary pillar – that makes you a bigot, ignorant or both. In case you’re interested in the truth, the Five Pillars of Islam are:
a. Shahada: Declaration of faith
b. Salah: Five daily prayers
c. Zakāt: Giving to charity
d. Sawm: Fasting (ritual, repentance and ascetic)
e. Hajj: Pilgrimage to Mecca
2) Shariah is not the same as the Five Pillars of Islam. Anyone claiming it is, is proclaiming their ignorance from the rooftops. In Islam, Shariah governs societal interactions, while the Five Pillars are personal and salvific.
3) There are mountains of books on what Shariah is, but here is a quick summary:
Shariah is not a universal codified set of rules, but principles drawn from the Qur’an and Hadith and interpreted by Muftis (jurists) and Qadi (judges). Shariah is applied to various extents in all of Muslim life, including family, civil and criminal law. Shariah dictates, with various extent and interpretations:
i. Laws regarding adultery, fornication, rape, drinking intoxicants, theft and murder
ii. Inheritance rights and value of testimony of women
iii. Marriage contracts
iv. Custody rights of children
v. Relationship and respect towards parents and elders
vi. Freedom of thought, conscience and religion – extent varies depending on the prominent school of thought in power
vii. Penalties for converting from Islam
viii. Non-Muslims only being worthy of a third to a half the Diya (compensation for death or bodily harm) as a Muslim
ix. Sexual relations - with penalties dependent on the prominent school of thought in power
x. Laws and taxing regarding Dhimmah (non-Muslims in an Islamic state)
xi. Many other aspects that form part of legal and civil society

spinotter wrote:

No, listen. We have to be tolerant of other beliefs and ways of living, as long as they do the same with us. And most Muslims do that. I lived in Iran for two years and I am going to tell you straight out that the Iranians are the kindest, most hospitable people on earth. Ditto for all Middle Easterners, although I know the other countries less. We have to stop fighting and disrespecting each other. Their culture and pride was savaged by the Western colonial powers and Israel. So they cling to their religion. Over time we can change that relationship, I hope. So a Sharia airline for people who observe Sharia, champagne and paté de foie gras on Air France, and no perks whatsoever on Spirit. Why not?


First, while I haven’t had the privilege of ever travelling to Iran, I have heard from many sources about the kindness and hospitality of the general Iranian population. That said:
• I think you should be made aware of the fact that nationality or race is not the same as being a Muslim. A Muslim is an adherent of the Islamic religion. An Iranian is a person of Iranian descent or nationality, whether a Muslim, Christian, Zoroastrian or atheist.
• Saying all Muslim are horrible people because of ISIS is prejudicial. Saying all Muslims are wonderful people because of kind Iranians is just as prejudicial.

Without hijacking the topic of this thread too much, just blaming foreign powers for everything (especially a tiny state with a population of a mere 8.5 million) is pathetic. While a discussion can be held (elsewhere) over who is responsible to what degree, you must start with acknowledging faults on both sides.
You might also want to take a gander at the above Wikipedia link. You state: “We have to stop fighting and disrespecting each other”, yet go on to (verbally) fight and disrespect “Western colonial powers and Israel”.

Getting back to the topic at hand, any freedom loving person shouldn’t have a problem with this venture. Provided those providing the capital are happy with the way their money is invested, Rahman can invest it as he wants. If he has found a niche market and can make it succeed, good for him. If he can’t, too bad, his problem. Regulation should be neither for or against this venture just because it is a “Shariah airline”.

I would go further and insist he should even be allowed to decide whether he only wants Muslims (or only Jews or Christians for that matter) on his aircraft. However, if the market decides it doesn’t want his product because he discriminates on those criteria, he also shouldn’t be surprised to find his company in the bankruptcy court



damn ... thank you
Sharia means following the 5 elements of ISLAM and following the law of the land you are at !!!

Isis , Taliban , Bako Haram doesn't represent Islam at all . 90% of the laws that were enforced by those terrorist organizations aren't required by islam i.e women covering their face , attacking others , no tv , smoking etc

oh and by the way i am muslim. so i know what i am talking about calling me islamophobic was uncalled anyways this is not the forum to discuss this if you need more info regards what i said just youtube : Sharia law Australia debate there is a beautiful discussion about it and it's in english
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:15 pm

As long as they aren't breaking the laws of the land or enforcing the sharia law on anyone that doesn't want it then I see no issue whatsoever. If an airline is able to ban alcohol on board regardless of the moniker of being sharia based then there is no problem with using sharia law to ban it. If an airline Can ban someone from flying due to their religion or sexuality then there is no reason to stop them using sharia law to ban them. If you can stop be eating a bacon sandwich on a plane then there is no issue in using sharia law to stop it. If however theses things cannot be done using applicable laws of the land then there can be no valid reason why a sharia carrier should be allowed to do the same.

Fred
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User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:18 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
I don't see the point of an airline with policies that would alienate 90% of the flying public in the country that they are based in.


See this is the thing I don't get. Assuming I wanted to use their route and they were of a similar price to other options, why wouldn't I take a short flight with them? To be honest, sounds like a fun little novelty trip.

Are all the people complaining about no booze on here really that alcoholic?!? I feel guilty that my wife and I throw a few wine bottles in the recycling each week, but even then I usually just have coffee, juice or Coke on board an aircraft.

And as for the other -isms, well I'm just sad that that so many people have apparently missed out on befriending people from different backgrounds like I have.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
speedbird52
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:28 pm

Arion640 wrote:
shankly wrote:
Whenever I fly out of LHR (typically with BA or EK down to JNB or CPT) I always order a halal meal as the local caterers rustle up a cracking ruby murray….which of course should be enjoyed with a beer or four

His airline will of course have to comply with National and International aviation standards ahead of any sharia bolt ons


I'm very much against halal. Such a cruel way of killing an animal.

How so? What's cruel about beheading the animal compared to raising animals in tiny compacted cages and then killing them by boiling alive? The purpose of halal slaughtering is humanity.
"I have control" Three Words That Could Have Saved Lives.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:38 pm

OGLOBAL wrote:
Hship wrote:
OGLOBAL wrote:
when we people understand that sharia airline sharia law doesn't exist . sharia means following the five elements of islam : fasting praying giving money to the poor pilgrim and FOLLOWING the law of the land you are at .


I have to give credit where credit is due; contradicting yourself in one paragraph is an art. First you state Shariah doesn’t exist and then you go on to define the non-existing thing for us. Take a peek at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_noncontradiction

What do you mean Shariah Law doesn’t exist? You are insensitive Islamophobic bigot. Allow Islam to define itself. It is not for you define it with your Western blinders on. It is not for you to remove the parts of Islam you don’t like. Sticking your head in a hole doesn’t make you look as tolerant as you think. It makes you a clown.

If Shariah is a non-existing thing as suggested above, what exactly were/are ISIS and Boko Haram trying to enforce? What are Mutaween enforcing? What are the point of the buildings known as ‘Shariah Courts’? What are thousands of Islamic Muftis (juristic scholars) from numerous schools of thought spending their time on?
Now, experts can discuss at length the correct interpretation of Shariah, but to pretend it doesn’t exist is a fool’s errand. If you don’t read books, at least read Wikipedia.

If there are aspects of Islam that leave a sour taste in the mouth, it is not your job to deny and redefine that religion. It is the job of Muslim scholars. Your job is to not spread lies – whether pro or against Islam.

Before you try to chastise those of us who discuss Shariah (and in this case its possible implication on the aviation industry) perhaps you need to educate yourself on Islam.

1) You listed four of the pillars and added your own imaginary pillar – that makes you a bigot, ignorant or both. In case you’re interested in the truth, the Five Pillars of Islam are:
a. Shahada: Declaration of faith
b. Salah: Five daily prayers
c. Zakāt: Giving to charity
d. Sawm: Fasting (ritual, repentance and ascetic)
e. Hajj: Pilgrimage to Mecca
2) Shariah is not the same as the Five Pillars of Islam. Anyone claiming it is, is proclaiming their ignorance from the rooftops. In Islam, Shariah governs societal interactions, while the Five Pillars are personal and salvific.
3) There are mountains of books on what Shariah is, but here is a quick summary:
Shariah is not a universal codified set of rules, but principles drawn from the Qur’an and Hadith and interpreted by Muftis (jurists) and Qadi (judges). Shariah is applied to various extents in all of Muslim life, including family, civil and criminal law. Shariah dictates, with various extent and interpretations:
i. Laws regarding adultery, fornication, rape, drinking intoxicants, theft and murder
ii. Inheritance rights and value of testimony of women
iii. Marriage contracts
iv. Custody rights of children
v. Relationship and respect towards parents and elders
vi. Freedom of thought, conscience and religion – extent varies depending on the prominent school of thought in power
vii. Penalties for converting from Islam
viii. Non-Muslims only being worthy of a third to a half the Diya (compensation for death or bodily harm) as a Muslim
ix. Sexual relations - with penalties dependent on the prominent school of thought in power
x. Laws and taxing regarding Dhimmah (non-Muslims in an Islamic state)
xi. Many other aspects that form part of legal and civil society

spinotter wrote:

No, listen. We have to be tolerant of other beliefs and ways of living, as long as they do the same with us. And most Muslims do that. I lived in Iran for two years and I am going to tell you straight out that the Iranians are the kindest, most hospitable people on earth. Ditto for all Middle Easterners, although I know the other countries less. We have to stop fighting and disrespecting each other. Their culture and pride was savaged by the Western colonial powers and Israel. So they cling to their religion. Over time we can change that relationship, I hope. So a Sharia airline for people who observe Sharia, champagne and paté de foie gras on Air France, and no perks whatsoever on Spirit. Why not?


First, while I haven’t had the privilege of ever travelling to Iran, I have heard from many sources about the kindness and hospitality of the general Iranian population. That said:
• I think you should be made aware of the fact that nationality or race is not the same as being a Muslim. A Muslim is an adherent of the Islamic religion. An Iranian is a person of Iranian descent or nationality, whether a Muslim, Christian, Zoroastrian or atheist.
• Saying all Muslim are horrible people because of ISIS is prejudicial. Saying all Muslims are wonderful people because of kind Iranians is just as prejudicial.

Without hijacking the topic of this thread too much, just blaming foreign powers for everything (especially a tiny state with a population of a mere 8.5 million) is pathetic. While a discussion can be held (elsewhere) over who is responsible to what degree, you must start with acknowledging faults on both sides.
You might also want to take a gander at the above Wikipedia link. You state: “We have to stop fighting and disrespecting each other”, yet go on to (verbally) fight and disrespect “Western colonial powers and Israel”.

Getting back to the topic at hand, any freedom loving person shouldn’t have a problem with this venture. Provided those providing the capital are happy with the way their money is invested, Rahman can invest it as he wants. If he has found a niche market and can make it succeed, good for him. If he can’t, too bad, his problem. Regulation should be neither for or against this venture just because it is a “Shariah airline”.

I would go further and insist he should even be allowed to decide whether he only wants Muslims (or only Jews or Christians for that matter) on his aircraft. However, if the market decides it doesn’t want his product because he discriminates on those criteria, he also shouldn’t be surprised to find his company in the bankruptcy court



damn ... thank you
Sharia means following the 5 elements of ISLAM and following the law of the land you are at !!!

Isis , Taliban , Bako Haram doesn't represent Islam at all . 90% of the laws that were enforced by those terrorist organizations aren't required by islam i.e women covering their face , attacking others , no tv , smoking etc

oh and by the way i am muslim. so i know what i am talking about calling me islamophobic was uncalled anyways this is not the forum to discuss this if you need more info regards what i said just youtube : Sharia law Australia debate there is a beautiful discussion about it and it's in english

Brozers asking the beautiful questions always makes me happy
"I have control" Three Words That Could Have Saved Lives.
 
Arion640
Topic Author
Posts: 1829
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Britains First Sharia Airline

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:48 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
shankly wrote:
Whenever I fly out of LHR (typically with BA or EK down to JNB or CPT) I always order a halal meal as the local caterers rustle up a cracking ruby murray….which of course should be enjoyed with a beer or four

His airline will of course have to comply with National and International aviation standards ahead of any sharia bolt ons


I'm very much against halal. Such a cruel way of killing an animal.

How so? What's cruel about beheading the animal compared to raising animals in tiny compacted cages and then killing them by boiling alive? The purpose of halal slaughtering is humanity.


What animals are kept in compacted cadges and boiled alive may i ask?
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