seb146
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Airlines and Corporate Jets

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:52 pm

I don't quite know how to put the topic or even if this belongs here or Tech/Ops:

It is my understanding that some regional jets are based on corporate jets. I am wondering if something like a Gulfstream V or Global Express could go into revenue service with a major carrier for North America to Europe in the off season?
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated after merging threads
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N766UA
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:15 pm

No way. Biz jets, while similar in size to RJ’s, are far from optimized for airline service. Simply put, they’re jets for rich people and companies, not for the masses. They’re built for speed and comfort carrying a few people, not for efficiency carrying many.

On a side note, I remember a very similar topic recently. Maybe someone else can find a link.
 
RamblinMan
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:59 pm

UA's FAT-ORD E175 red-eye not enough for you?
 
PEK777
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:03 am

I can't tell you the exact route, but I can guarantee it is flown by United. This is a scientific fact.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:12 am

N766UA wrote:
On a side note, I remember a very similar topic recently. Maybe someone else can find a link.

I'm fairly certain it was this one?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1394297&p=20411715&hilit=Regional+jet#p20411715
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:35 am

seb146 wrote:
I don't quite know how to put the topic or even if this belongs here or Tech/Ops:

It is my understanding that some regional jets are based on corporate jets. I am wondering if something like a Gulfstream V or Global Express could go into revenue service with a major carrier for North America to Europe in the off season?


Let’s try to dispense with the idea some regional jets were or are based on business jets. It. Did. Not. Happen.

The CRJ shared the “tube” with the Challenger 601; lots of stuff changed—the gear, the door arrangement, the wing, the avionics, the seating, the wing—all different. In fact, the Challenger 604 had lots of lessons learned on the CRJ brought into it. They are even different type ratings.

The Embraers were regional jets converted to corporate use. Not altogether happily, either.

A all business class Global was proposed by a bearded gent from England, a knighted gent at that. The numbers were hopeless. You can only get about 8 lie-flat seats with adequate galley and storage, then the authorities would require some of the mods that went into the CRJ, like reinforced cockpit door, escape hatch, etc. etc.

GF
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:46 am

Great Circle Mapper last week featured UA's longest regional jet routes.
http://www.gcmap.com/featured/20180607

The longest currently for UA is SFO-MSN (not ORD-FAT) in a E175. SFO-MSN is 1,772 mi.
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Yflyer
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:57 am

FATFlyer wrote:
Great Circle Mapper last week featured UA's longest regional jet routes.
http://www.gcmap.com/featured/20180607

The longest currently for UA is SFO-MSN (not ORD-FAT) in a E175. SFO-MSN is 1,772 mi.


For a second there I was thinking UA was flying IAH-EWR on a regional jet. :lol: Then I realized I was mixing up the AUS-EWR and IAH-BDL lines.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:58 am

Longest for DL is SEA-FAI on a E175 during the winter at 1,533 mi
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4engines4lnghll
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:00 am

UA used an rj from IAH-YYZ!!!
4engines4lnghll
 
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fraspotter
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:27 am

They fly E145 between IAH-RIC. Depending on the time of year UA was/is flying the E175 between DEN-RIC before upgrading to A319/320.
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Blockplus
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:45 am

Ive done ewr- okc and iah-boi, iah-bfl, iah-yyz in 145xr
Last edited by Blockplus on Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:47 am

I did DEN-BHM in a CRJ-200 on UA and I felt that was interminable - and that was ~950nm and I was in Row 1 aisle so I could stretch my legs into the galley area. Going some 75% farther... :eyepopping:
 
TUSAA
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:48 am

AC CRJ-900 YVR-DFW is a bit long
 
airman99o
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:22 am

Sky Regional Flies yul-den, yyz-sat, yyz-iah, yyz-aus, regularly on the E175.
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AaronPGH
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:26 am

Some of the UA E175s I've flown have been more comfortable than mainline jets. At least before having the practically public bus hard slimline seats installed.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:06 am

Yflyer wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Great Circle Mapper last week featured UA's longest regional jet routes.
http://www.gcmap.com/featured/20180607

The longest currently for UA is SFO-MSN (not ORD-FAT) in a E175. SFO-MSN is 1,772 mi.


For a second there I was thinking UA was flying IAH-EWR on a regional jet. :lol: Then I realized I was mixing up the AUS-EWR and IAH-BDL lines.

UA/CO have operated IAH-IAD and IAH-DEN on ERJs in the past.

EWR-OKC operated on an ERJ in the past, now appears to be E75.

DL's longest RJ service (CR9/E75) was probably MKE-SEA up until last month, though it has now become an A319.

DL flies LGA/JFK-DFW, LGA-IAH, and LGA-MCI on E75/CR9s

I don't know what they're longest RJ route is at present.
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FATFlyer
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:59 am

TUSAA wrote:
AC CRJ-900 YVR-DFW is a bit long

YVR-ORD on the CR9 is a bit longer.

Great Circle Mapper also this week showed the longest CRJ routes, all were on Jazz.

This map shows the 3 longest Jazz CR9 routes:
YVR-ORD 1,764 mi
YVR-DFW 1,754 mi
YYC-IAH 1,748 mi
http://www.gcmap.com/featured/20180612
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KICT
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:08 am

I believe Delta flew the CR9 to Montana from ATL at one point. Insane.
Or perhaps it was somewhere in Wyoming?
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:38 am

Two from my hometown, wasn't aware that these two e175 flights were considered relatively long since no domestic flight is longer than about 1800 miles due to AUS's geographic location in the center of the US (it's also pretty far South though).

Surely an e175 is still a comfy ride for 1500+ mile rides, no? I also could've sworn AUS-SFO occasionally has a CR7 (in the past, perhaps, and only if FA was accurate), that surely must be pretty long for a CR7 (anything over two hours on a CRJ I would think seems like torture). Longest I've spent in the small tube was about two hours solid.

EDIT: Whoops this thread wasn't really about the e175.

If I recall, an argument that disqualified going relatively far with a small aircraft was using up a large amount of available gross weight for fuel instead of PAX or cargo.
 
kylesuo
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:48 am

I would fly on an E175 long haul if that was somehow possible. Best aircraft for economy flying bar none IMO.
 
jetero
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:48 am

4engines4lnghll wrote:
UA used an rj from IAH-YYZ!!!


A beautiful flight in 12A.
 
alggag
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:21 am

I honestly don't get the hate on the E175 or CR9. I've flown IAH-YUL and YYC-IAH both on the CR9 and found it to be quite comfortable aside from the misaligned window. Ditto for IAH-DTW on a CR7.

Never been on a E175 but if it's the same as a E190 then I wouldn not hesitate to take a long flight on it.
 
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:57 am

Don't know if they still do it, but AC used to fly an E190 from SEA to YYZ. Flew that back in 2013.

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FatCat
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:59 am

I'm sorry but I find way more confortable the 2-2 seat arrangment on a E175 / E190 that the 3-3 on the A321...
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intotheair
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:34 am

kylesuo wrote:
I would fly on an E175 long haul if that was somehow possible. Best aircraft for economy flying bar none IMO.


I frequently think the same thing. A small J cabin in a 1-1 flatbed configuration and 2-2 in Y would be a passenger's dream. If only they could figure out the pesky range problem to make TATL in an E175 possible. It's fun to dream...
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
masonh2479
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:46 pm

airman99o wrote:
Sky Regional Flies yul-den, yyz-sat, yyz-iah, yyz-aus, regularly on the E175.

YYZ-AUS was a cycle of CRJ705 for a while, then the E175 for a while, and now the route is upgraded to an E190 which Air Canada considered mainline.
 
edina
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:10 pm

Whilst it's only 1352nm on the WDH-HLE leg, I'm suprised no one has mentioned Airlinks E190 service from JNB-WDH-HLE. The WDH-HLE leg is almost 100% transoceanic, landing on a runway that makes GIB and FNC look rather mundane...
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dmstorm22
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:28 pm

alggag wrote:
I honestly don't get the hate on the E175 or CR9. I've flown IAH-YUL and YYC-IAH both on the CR9 and found it to be quite comfortable aside from the misaligned window. Ditto for IAH-DTW on a CR7.

Never been on a E175 but if it's the same as a E190 then I wouldn not hesitate to take a long flight on it.


Air Canada's E175s are fine to me. Flew them a ton between YYZ-EWR last year, which admittedly is a short flight, but also flew it ATL-YYZ and found it perfectly fine.

To me a lot more depends on what the airline does inside the RJ than the size of the place itself.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:43 pm

Wasn't there a UA (SkyWest) CRJ-700 that did MSP-LAX not that long ago?
 
ZTLcenter
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:44 pm

With full tanks the G5 can barely carry 4 people.
 
N766UA
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:49 pm

kylesuo wrote:
I would fly on an E175 long haul if that was somehow possible. Best aircraft for economy flying bar none IMO.


I agree, EXCEPT for UAL’s. Their slimline seats are wooden bench quality. Completely ruin that jet.
 
fjhc
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:00 pm

I've done HEL-MAN on the Finnair E-190. Flew out on an A320.

I preferred the Embraer for passenger comfort, although the A320 did have a cool camera mounted on the nose gear which displayed on the screens during takeoff! I'd happily fly longer distances on the Embraers.

Did IAD-BNA on a United Express CRJ-700 though and that wasn't much fun. The extra space on the E-Jets makes all the difference.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:23 pm

E175 is way more comfortable than a 737 or a320. Id have no problem taking one transcon or to Hawaii if it could make it.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:52 pm

alggag wrote:
I honestly don't get the hate on the E175 or CR9. I've flown IAH-YUL and YYC-IAH both on the CR9 and found it to be quite comfortable aside from the misaligned window. Ditto for IAH-DTW on a CR7.


On the IAH-YUL, the last mainline service was like 15/20 years ago, on Continental's 737-500. (Montreal's petroleum sector has since regressed). That route is now way "thinner"...

So the current non-stop RJ service is definitely superior than any possible connecting mainline service.
 
alasizon
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:01 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Wasn't there a UA (SkyWest) CRJ-700 that did MSP-LAX not that long ago?


Yes, repeatedly.

AA routinely does PHX-MEM (1250+ mi) and PHX-YEG (1350+ mi) on the CR9 and nobody seems to mind that much more than any other RJ flight. The CR9 is plenty comfortable when the interior is maintained. For those who dislike the misaligned windows, anything forward of the emergency exit row should have properly aligned windows on any given 76 seat configuration (the Mesa 79 seat CR9s are offset)
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TWA772LR
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Airlines and Corporate Jets

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:21 pm

I know corporate jets aren't designed for flying the way commercial airliners do, but is there a market for a small fleet of corporate jets to fly long and thin but ultra premium markets operated, or at least leased, by full service airlines? It would allow airlines to phase put dedicated First Class cabins in favor of more J/C seats but still cater to the ultra high yield pax. Itd be similar to BAs A318 service, but in a GLEX or G650, and maybe once a day into city center airports.

Sidebar, can someone tell me how DLs Delta Jets (or whatever its called) operates?
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ilovelamp
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Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:26 pm

DPJ has been used during IROPS situations before. Other than that, there’s no major link between the two companies and their pax.
 
jackieman27
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Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:35 pm

Delta Private Jets is no different from any other part 135 operator besides that it's owned by Delta.
 
Passedv1
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Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:42 pm

There is - it is called the entire charter/fractional industry. If you are talking about scheduled service then probably not. With the exception of say jfk-BOS or jfk-dca and a few others there really isn’t that much consistent demand between two random points. Operating cost range from $2000 (citation jet) -$5000 (Gulf Stream). So the ticket would have to sell for a minimum of 3k-6k just to cover operating expenses. We have’t even talked about 2k-3k+/day capital (lease or loan payment) cost for the jet. Than you have the fact that you pay 5k+ and you don’t get to dictate the time and you are going to make your client fly to LGA when they want to get out to LI and Islip would be much better. You are way better off getting a net jets share. Your airline would be losing customers out the top to netjets and out the bottom to FC/lounge offerings from the airlines.
 
Joelatbsl
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Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:07 pm

Air France once had a dedicated fleet of A319s with extra fuel tanks that were particularly equipped with just 50-60 Business Class seats for certain destinations. Especially the oil industry should have been served with these. In the end the concept was scrapped and the aircraft have partly gone or are flying in normal configurations these days.
 
aviationjunky
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:14 pm

I remember a few years back, I was a teenager, so at least 7 years ago, I flew DAY-DEN on an UA ERJ145. Its about 1100 miles. I remember the flight attendant kept apologizing because the plane was so small. There was only a handful of people on the plane, maybe 20 passengers total. Each of us had a row to ourselves pretty much. From what I can remember, the flight itself was pretty enjoyable, but I can't imagine the flight being full. That would've been absolutely miserable!
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keesje
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:35 pm

Yflyer wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Great Circle Mapper last week featured UA's longest regional jet routes.
http://www.gcmap.com/featured/20180607

The longest currently for UA is SFO-MSN (not ORD-FAT) in a E175. SFO-MSN is 1,772 mi.


For a second there I was thinking UA was flying IAH-EWR on a regional jet. :lol: Then I realized I was mixing up the AUS-EWR and IAH-BDL lines.


I'v flown IAH-EWR on a CRJ (Continental) a long time ago. I remember people murmeling when it showed up at the gate & there was no space for my luggage..
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yellowtail
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:44 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
TUSAA wrote:
AC CRJ-900 YVR-DFW is a bit long

YVR-ORD on the CR9 is a bit longer.

Great Circle Mapper also this week showed the longest CRJ routes, all were on Jazz.

YYC-IAH 1,748 mi
http://www.gcmap.com/featured/20180612


I've done this one.....not an empty seat on board due to a UA cnx. then a half hour extra of flying time due to storms. It was not pretty. I have never been more grateful to get off a plane.
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fly2yyz
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:49 pm

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
Don't know if they still do it, but AC used to fly an E190 from SEA to YYZ. Flew that back in 2013.

Greets from Innsbruck,

InnsbruckFlyer


They don't do SEA any longer as its been upgauged to A320.

But PDX is still on a E190 and not too long ago so was SLC before they cancelled the service.
 
Joelatbsl
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:58 pm

Does the CS-300 qualify in the Regional Jet category? If yes, how about Air Baltic's routes from Riga down to the UAE or Swiss' over-night trip fro Zurich to Cairo?
 
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leleko747
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:08 pm

To all quoting E-Jets:


There's a reason why Embraer decided to drop the "ERJ" label for the E-Jets family :)
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
cpd
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Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 pm

Qatar has a few business jets that they charter out.

But they are not in normal scheduled services.
 
andrew50
Posts: 152
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:40 pm

Several years ago I flew DFW-SYR on American Eagle, I believe it was
on a CRJ. It is around 1,400 miles and I think at the time it was the
longest RJ flight in the country.
 
Curiousflyer
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:02 pm

I'll do any distance on an E175 or E190 rather than a 737 or 320 in coach if technically feasible. CR-9 is fine in first but a torture in coach, so I am always happy to avoid it if I can. CR-9s and the old Embraer should go, I think they also are gas guzzlers.

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