AntonioMartin
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:18 pm

Saudia and Pan Am have/also had private-business jets on their fleet.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:22 pm

Curiousflyer wrote:
I'll do any distance on an E175 or E190 rather than a 737 or 320 in coach if technically feasible. CR-9 is fine in first but a torture in coach, so I am always happy to avoid it if I can. CR-9s and the old Embraer should go, I think they also are gas guzzlers.


A CR9 is more fuel efficient than a 175... a lot of people hate the CRJs but as a taller person, I’ll tell you that while the pitch in coach in a Delta Connection CR2 is the same as a Delta 717, the seats are thinner, giving you a bit more leg room. Granted, the seats are narrower in the CRJ
From my cold, dead hands
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 5273
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:40 pm

KICT wrote:
I believe Delta flew the CR9 to Montana from ATL at one point. Insane.
Or perhaps it was somewhere in Wyoming?


DL did ATL-ASE in the past with a CR7. They also did ATL-PWM with a CR7.

Personally I don’t care if it’s a regional jet or a prop-jet. As long as I get where I’m going safely and on time, that’s good enough for me.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:47 pm

Reminded me of Air Alsace‘s fleet of Corvettes but they were not used in the way you described above.





Air China has cooperate jets as well.
 
aviationjunky
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:27 pm

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:47 pm

I was looking around and I saw that AA use to fly TUS-ORD with a CRJ700. That's over 1400 miles. I'd say somewhere in the time frame of 4 hours, which seems unbearable in a CRJ.
LAS is Life
 
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intotheair
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:05 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Curiousflyer wrote:
I'll do any distance on an E175 or E190 rather than a 737 or 320 in coach if technically feasible. CR-9 is fine in first but a torture in coach, so I am always happy to avoid it if I can. CR-9s and the old Embraer should go, I think they also are gas guzzlers.


A CR9 is more fuel efficient than a 175... a lot of people hate the CRJs but as a taller person, I’ll tell you that while the pitch in coach in a Delta Connection CR2 is the same as a Delta 717, the seats are thinner, giving you a bit more leg room. Granted, the seats are narrower in the CRJ


I think the CR7 and CR9 get a bad rap. They're not as comfortable as the Ejets or mainline, but they are perfectly fine and noticeably better than the CR1/CR2. The lower floor, wider seats, and higher and larger windows on the CR7/9 make all the difference. The ones with the NextGen cabin design are nice too.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
WWads
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:13 pm

RamblinMan wrote:
UA's FAT-ORD E175 red-eye not enough for you?


0450 arrival? That's just inhumane. Some of these redeyes are madness.
 
Gsdlimey
Posts: 9
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:19 pm

ZTLcenter wrote:
With full tanks the G5 can barely carry 4 people.


Where are you getting this information?
 
cschleic
Posts: 1518
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:19 pm

N766UA wrote:
No way. Biz jets, while similar in size to RJ’s, are far from optimized for airline service. Simply put, they’re jets for rich people and companies, not for the masses. They’re built for speed and comfort carrying a few people, not for efficiency carrying many.

On a side note, I remember a very similar topic recently. Maybe someone else can find a link.


They're also not built for the high level of use and cycles of an airliner.
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:21 pm

RamblinMan wrote:
UA's FAT-ORD E175 red-eye not enough for you?


I think E175s are more comfortable than 737s in E+
 
washingtonflyer
Posts: 1341
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:07 pm

When I think of RJs, I think more of the 50 seater jets. Im comfortable with the E-175/170s and even with the CRJ-700 or -900. The window and seat arrangement are quite different from what you find in the CRJ-200. Embraers can be tough too (ERJ 135/140/145).
 
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hOMSaR
Posts: 1956
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:57 pm

leleko747 wrote:
To all quoting E-Jets:


There's a reason why Embraer decided to drop the "ERJ" label for the E-Jets family :)



The irony is that the 145's type certificate is EMB-145, it was then renamed/marketed as the ERJ; but the 170/190s are officially certified as ERJs and now aren't marketed as such.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
777PHX
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Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:58 pm

I don't see how this would work. Two big reasons why people fly private jets is for convenience and privacy/luxury. If you take both of those away by setting scheduled times and loading the plane up with pax, why not just fly regular commercial then?

I mean, this was sort of the idea behind the whole microjet craze with these outfits that were going to fly around a cheap aerial taxi of sorts picking people and dropping them off from various locations. And that hasn't quite come to fruition either. You could maybe make something like this work on well traveled short routes like up and down the northeast coast, but I don't see anything long and thin being worth the effort.
 
beeweel15
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:02 am

Which airline has the longest route using a regional jet. Elite Airlines has a flight from New York to the Bahamas and to Florida. Any one knows any longer routes
 
floridaflyboy
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Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:19 am

When I was a FA at Mesaba, we did MSP-PWM on the CRJ-200. 1,136 miles, 987 nm. It was excruciating. MSP-ALB was also painful.
Good goes around!
 
strfyr51
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:12 am

N766UA wrote:
No way. Biz jets, while similar in size to RJ’s, are far from optimized for airline service. Simply put, they’re jets for rich people and companies, not for the masses. They’re built for speed and comfort carrying a few people, not for efficiency carrying many.

On a side note, I remember a very similar topic recently. Maybe someone else can find a link.

Years ago the former Dimwit managers at United were going to buy a bunch of corporate jets and fly them under the United banner.
This was a Richard Ferris Idea and UAL-ALPA "took care" of that idea in one damn Hurry.. Especially since it was a stupid Idea!!
 
washingtonflyer
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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:13 am

floridaflyboy wrote:
When I was a FA at Mesaba, we did MSP-PWM on the CRJ-200. 1,136 miles, 987 nm. It was excruciating. MSP-ALB was also painful.


I want to say that at one point, UA/CO did EWR-OKC in and E-145. 1325 miles...
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3005
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:21 am

N14AZ wrote:
Reminded me of Air Alsace‘s fleet of Corvettes but they were not used in the way you described above.





Air China has cooperate jets as well.

I worked on the Corvette. If there EVER was a small jet that could have worked in airline Service? It was that airplane.
It did have some drawbacks though, The Nose tire had an inner tube, and the wing deicing system was a tank full of Ethylene Glycol that worked by seeping through weep holes in the wing leading edge. But that sucker was reliable and easy to maintain. one of our Reg. Numbers was N604AN
 
Justapax
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:37 am

southwest1675 wrote:
Wasn't there a UA (SkyWest) CRJ-700 that did MSP-LAX not that long ago?


Yes, they did MSP-LAX, and when they downgraded MSP-SFO to a CR7, from an A319, i departed UA for DL
 
Ionosphere
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:46 pm

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:23 am

Is UA/CO EWR-OKC the longest 50 seater flight ever?
 
SkyflyerYYZ
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:05 pm

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:26 am

Joelatbsl wrote:
Does the CS-300 qualify in the Regional Jet category? If yes, how about Air Baltic's routes from Riga down to the UAE or Swiss' over-night trip fro Zurich to Cairo?

Well, the CS300 is mainly thought of as/designed as a 737-7 MAX competitor or a A319 competitor, so no.
 
Okcflyer
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:43 am

I flew EWR-OKC once a few years ago in an XR — had a couple of seats blocked, left 4 people at the gate IIRC, and had to move everyone to the back for take off to avoid ballast. That was partially bc of possible weather in OKC requiring DFW as divert.

My butt hurt for 2 days from that. I hate those ERJ seats. Most uncomfortable.

As others have said, the E Jets are very comfortable. I routinely fly Avianca (TACA) E-90’s for 3 hours. United’s E170/175’s are very good as well.

Imagine 2800 miles in the same tube ... which the E2-190 is capable of :)
 
FrmrKSEngr
Posts: 397
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:11 am

N766UA wrote:
kylesuo wrote:
I would fly on an E175 long haul if that was somehow possible. Best aircraft for economy flying bar none IMO.


I agree, EXCEPT for UAL’s. Their slimline seats are wooden bench quality. Completely ruin that jet.


Could not agree more. Did UA IAD to AUS, was like sitting on a park bench for 3 hours. What a difference from the EI A330 that brought me to IAD.
 
FrmrKSEngr
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:05 am

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:43 am

UA used to fly ICT to LAX with a CR700. 1200 mi. Took it once on a trip to Edwards AFB, Instead of the usual routing to BUR through DEN or PHX. Saved a couple hours of enroute time on the flight (while freezing my butt off in my exit window seat), which I more than lost in the 5PM LA traffic driving north past Burbank. Never again. Except for the cold, the actual flight was fine, just the arrival time sucked.
 
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N14AZ
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:31 am

Hahn Air offers scheduled flights on their Learjets.

Day Flight Number Departure Departure from Arrival Arrival in
Monday HR330 / LG1330* 08:35 Düsseldorf (DUS) 09:20 Luxembourg (LUX)
Monday HR331 / LG1331* 15:45 Luxembourg (LUX) 16:30 Düsseldorf (DUS)
Friday HR330 / LG1330* 08:35 Düsseldorf (DUS) 09:20 Luxembourg (LUX)
Friday HR331 / LG1331* 15:45 Luxembourg (LUX) 16:30 Düsseldorf (DUS)

Dusseldorf - Palma de Mallorca: Summer timetable (valid from 4th May 2018)
Day Flight Number Departure Departure from Arrival Arrival in
Friday HR220 19:15 Düsseldorf (DUS) 21:30 Palma de Mallorca (PMI)
Sunday HR221 16:45 Palma de Mallorca (PMI) 19:00 Düsseldorf (DUS)

Source: https://www.hahnair.com/en/hahn-air-lin ... ed-flights



strfyr51 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Reminded me of Air Alsace‘s fleet of Corvettes but they were not used in the way you described above.

I worked on the Corvette. If there EVER was a small jet that could have worked in airline Service? It was that airplane.
It did have some drawbacks though, The Nose tire had an inner tube, and the wing deicing system was a tank full of Ethylene Glycol that worked by seeping through weep holes in the wing leading edge. But that sucker was reliable and easy to maintain. one of our Reg. Numbers was N604AN

Thanks for your feedback. Very interesting.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 1973
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:32 am

N14AZ wrote:
Reminded me of Air Alsace‘s fleet of Corvettes but they were not used in the way you described above.





.


How were they used? were they not used as commuter jets? I always remember seeing these photos and I always wondered...
How many pax did they carry?

Thanks!
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 1973
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:34 am

strfyr51 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Reminded me of Air Alsace‘s fleet of Corvettes but they were not used in the way you described above.

.

I worked on the Corvette. If there EVER was a small jet that could have worked in airline Service? It was that airplane.
It did have some drawbacks though, The Nose tire had an inner tube, and the wing deicing system was a tank full of Ethylene Glycol that worked by seeping through weep holes in the wing leading edge. But that sucker was reliable and easy to maintain. one of our Reg. Numbers was N604AN


Oh wow.Interesting. Could you expand a bit more? How were they used at your airline? How was flying the Corvette as a passenger??
 
shankly
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:22 am

As a spotter in the 70's those Air Alsace Corvettes were elusive....never did manage to bag one

A regular sight at Heathrow in those days was the JetStar operated by Iraqi Airways, albeit operating on government business. Indeed this JetStar, YI-AKA, went on to serve in Air Algerie colours as 7T-VHP

Golden West Airlines used a HFB Hansa Jet for commercial services out of Burbank in the late 1960's
L1011 - P F M
 
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leleko747
Posts: 277
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Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:06 pm

hOMSaR wrote:


The irony is that the 145's type certificate is EMB-145, it was then renamed/marketed as the ERJ; but the 170/190s are officially certified as ERJs and now aren't marketed as such.


Indeed a big mess! When the 145 was launched back in the 90s, they were labelled as EMB-145.
Even the prototypes had the Embraer House Colors with "EMB-145" written on it. They were then renamed as ERJ, as we know it today.

Meanwhile, the E-Jets were indeed launched as ERJ-170, 175, etc etc, but it was dropped shortly after.
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
cloudboy
Posts: 1102
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:38 pm

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:37 pm

Getting away from the debate over Embraers, and the economics and practicality of such an idea, What, from a legal perspective, would an airline have to do if for any reason at all they decided to buy a couple of business jets and then operate them in scheduled service. I saw something upstream about reinforced doors - are there other changes that would have to be made in regards to regulations, or could they just put their name on it and start flying? Or would such an aircraft not be authorized to fly scheduled services?
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
tjh8402
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:20 am

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:29 pm

I won’t rehash everyone’s good points about the poor operating economics, but I’d also add that the purchase economics aren’t good. Gulfstreams and Globals are expensive to purchase and discounts aren’t great. An airline can probably buy a 737 or A320 for close to the price of one and has far more revenue potential.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1128
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:00 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Longest for DL is SEA-FAI on a E175 during the winter at 1,533 mi


FAI hasn’t seen the E175 in over a year. DL moved it to a mainline 319 in winter.
 
LG777
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:48 am

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:01 pm

Funny how Americans refute the fact that there is airlines using corporate jets when one of the biggest doing it is... in the US.

It's called Onejet. They started to include E135 but their fleet is still mainly corporate jets.

There are also Surf air (recent) and an other company based in Switzerland that I can't recall the name.

It doesn't mean that they are successful and will be in the long term but at least Onejet seems to survive for a few years.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3005
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:38 am

oldannyboy wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Reminded me of Air Alsace‘s fleet of Corvettes but they were not used in the way you described above.

.

I worked on the Corvette. If there EVER was a small jet that could have worked in airline Service? It was that airplane.
It did have some drawbacks though, The Nose tire had an inner tube, and the wing deicing system was a tank full of Ethylene Glycol that worked by seeping through weep holes in the wing leading edge. But that sucker was reliable and easy to maintain. one of our Reg. Numbers was N604AN


Oh wow.Interesting. Could you expand a bit more? How were they used at your airline? How was flying the Corvette as a passenger??

We actually used them for night Freight flying for Purolator Courier. Ours had Pratt, JT15D4 Engines and Collins Avionics
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3005
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:42 am

oldannyboy wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Reminded me of Air Alsace‘s fleet of Corvettes but they were not used in the way you described above.





.


How were they used? were they not used as commuter jets? I always remember seeing these photos and I always wondered...
How many pax did they carry?

Thanks!

The could carry up to 15 passengers and the seats were at 45 degrees to the aisle. It actually came down the same assembly line as the Falcon-10 and 20 that launched FEDERAL Express (FEDEX)
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 1919
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:46 am

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
Don't know if they still do it, but AC used to fly an E190 from SEA to YYZ. Flew that back in 2013.

Greets from Innsbruck,

InnsbruckFlyer


In Europe, the E190 is considered a regional jet, and I suspect that's your POV. However, in the USA and Canada, the E190 is considered a mainline jet.

As for the OP, the Challenger was developed into the RJ series. Embraer has done the reverse for such: the E145 series had the Legacy 600 developed from it (both are still in production), and the E190 had the Lineage developed from it. That said, corporate jets are not constructed for the high-cycle life of a regional jet, and so it would not make economic sense to fly a corporate jet as an RJ. Some large airlines will fly corporate jets, such as Delta (Delta Private Jets) and Lufthansa (Lufthansa Private Jet), but these operations are under different AOCs and not under the same sections as a scheduled carrier.

For purposes of this post, I do not count corporate jets that are the size of mainline jets, and thus I mean only CRJ and smaller. I don't count A320 family corporate jets or B737 NG BBJ series planes, or any wide-body corporate jet for these purposes.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 1161
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:16 am

One Jet is more like a specialized corporate shuttle for the US Midwest than airline. The OP posited using Gulfstreams or Globals US to Europe; not EMB 145 (an airliner, btw) and some old Beech jets to IND.

GF
 
cofannyc
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:22 am

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:46 am

beeweel15 wrote:
Which airline has the longest route using a regional jet. Elite Airlines has a flight from New York to the Bahamas and to Florida. Any one knows any longer routes


In the current month, I see Elite flying PWM to SRQ on a CR2 at 1313 mi.

But the longest scheduled service I can find in June is out of Russia. UVT Aero operates a CR2 for 1374 mi from Kazan to Barnaul.
 
Theproudbird
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:25 am

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Continental back in the day had a physical private jet I think it was a Lear Jet during Sixs’ days
 
JulietteBravo
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:25 pm

Re: Long Distance RJ Service

Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:02 am

SkyflyerYYZ wrote:
Joelatbsl wrote:
Does the CS-300 qualify in the Regional Jet category? If yes, how about Air Baltic's routes from Riga down to the UAE or Swiss' over-night trip fro Zurich to Cairo?

Well, the CS300 is mainly thought of as/designed as a 737-7 MAX competitor or a A319 competitor, so no.


Nevertheless these medium haul flights RIX-AUH or ZRH-CAI or GVA-DME flights with the CS3 are remarkable. At LX it succeeded the Avro and does ultra short (eg. GVA, STR, MXP) to mid long.
 
rutankrd
Posts: 2948
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

Re: Airlines and Corporate Jets

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:30 am

Haln Air fly a regular scheduled service between Duseldorf and Luxembourg open to book by anyone for about €500 using a Citation .

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