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jbs2886
Posts: 2497
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:27 pm

ilovelamp wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/14/reuters-america-update-1-airbus-likely-sold-10-a330neo-jets-to-delta--sources.html

Hopefully this is just the tip of the iceberg.


You may want to summarize instead of making people click.

But, interesting news that DL may be the buyer of the 10 A330neos. No cancellations of A350.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:22 pm

The news of the A350neo coming out all but eliminates Airbus' (and lessors') hopes of the A330N's ever commanding premium prices. Would we now see "Black Friday" deals to try and move the A330Ns faster down and out of the assembly line :?: :airplane:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:58 pm

Flightglobal poses the next big question...... :airplane: ......

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rt-454245/
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:41 pm

The idea that "perception" is driving sales of any airliner is silly. Airlines and lessors are buying based on sharp-penciled analysis. Airbus's problem with the A330neo (to the extent there is one) is clear: it doesn't have as large a pricing advantage against the 787 as Airbus expected when it put together the business case.

Even if Airbus can't fix that, I'm sure frames will still sell until the next big step (A350neo + 787 MAX?) based on availability and operator-specific A330 advantages. But Airbus will be stuck at a low rate. They will have to find a way to lower prices if they want to increase the rate.
 
ewt340
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:05 pm

On a quick note. Maybe Airbus trying to copy Apple's strategy. Eliminate useless stuff and focus on 3 aircraft. New-clean sheet for Narrowbody, milking A220, and updated version A350neo and possibly A350neo Freighter. Drop A330neo and A380 in mid 2025.

I think Airbus people had a feeling that the wide-body market are currently saturated, so they wouldn't see the uptick of orders like they did with their updated A330ceo in 2010's upwards. So cutting the beef would be the best way to cut off the dead weight and focus on newer models to attack Boeing's dominance on wide-body market.

Airbus might go vegan in upcoming years.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:10 am

seabosdca wrote:
The idea that "perception" is driving sales of any airliner is silly. Airlines and lessors are buying based on sharp-penciled analysis. Airbus's problem with the A330neo (to the extent there is one) is clear: it doesn't have as large a pricing advantage against the 787 as Airbus expected when it put together the business case.

Even if Airbus can't fix that, I'm sure frames will still sell until the next big step (A350neo + 787 MAX?) based on availability and operator-specific A330 advantages. But Airbus will be stuck at a low rate. They will have to find a way to lower prices if they want to increase the rate.

That was my thought. If old fashioned is an excuse for the A330NEO, then get out of the way of MAX production.

Airlines love efficient familiarity. The issue is 787 production has finally been made sufficiently low enough price the the A330N business case has shifted.

No one doubts Airbus will be around in 20 years which is the only perception other than economics that matters.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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flee
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:05 am

ewt340 wrote:
updated version A350neo and possibly A350neo Freighter. Drop A330neo and A380 in mid 2025.

I don't think the A350 alone is enough, if they drop the A380. There might be a need to have a larger aircraft (than the A350-1000) in the A350 family. That is why they are beginning to market the A330Neo/A350 as a "family". The A330Neo will cover the lower end of the market while A350 will cover the larger capacity and higher performance market.
 
ist2014
Posts: 426
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:40 am

Considering that TK is operating the biggest A330 fleet, can we expect neo order or will TK go with 787/359 as ordered
 
WIederling
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:59 am

Devilfish wrote:
The news of the A350neo coming out all but eliminates Airbus' (and lessors') hopes of the A330N's ever commanding premium prices. Would we now see "Black Friday" deals to try and move the A330Ns faster down and out of the assembly line :?: :airplane:


There is no A350NEO coming out for XMas 2019 or even forbid 2018.
The indicator we have is that Airbus is looking towards expanding its engineering workforce
(dangle carrot) for integration of a new engine on the A350 family.

Any potential new engine design has an EIS 10+ years out.
Murphy is an optimist
 
ewt340
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:20 pm

flee wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
updated version A350neo and possibly A350neo Freighter. Drop A330neo and A380 in mid 2025.

I don't think the A350 alone is enough, if they drop the A380. There might be a need to have a larger aircraft (than the A350-1000) in the A350 family. That is why they are beginning to market the A330Neo/A350 as a "family". The A330Neo will cover the lower end of the market while A350 will cover the larger capacity and higher performance market.


Naturally that should have happen if they eliminate A330neo or thr Toubled A380. Revival of A350-800 with 2 variants, the long-haul one with newer and more efficient engines and/or a regional one with lower MTOW and derated engines to replace A330 with range around 6000nm give or take.

They could also come up with highly speculative model of A350-2000 (4m stretches) or modifications on A350-1000 with a tiny stretch of 1-2 meters with higher MTOW and newer more efficient engines to replace the old A350-1000. This would be easier and cheaper to done compared to do heavy modifications for 77 meters A350-2000. Just to make sure the passengers capacity became closer to 10-abreast B777-300ER.

Mainly because we saw that until now, most airlines love 10-abreast B777-300ER. But not as many order the bigger B777-9X. The size and the fact that many B777-300ER are still extremely young. So, A 350-2000 might be a bit overkill since the capacity is quite close to B777-9X. By giving A350-1000 a smaller 1-2 meter stretch, it would bring the capacity closer to 10-abreast B777-300ER. If the plane comes in 2025-2030, it would mean that the very first batch of B777-300ER would be ready to retired, and a stretched A350-1000 would be a better replacement compared to A350-2000 or B777-9X.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:30 pm

The next A330neo customer could be Corsair. 10 plus A330-900 perhaps.

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/intro-avi ... us-330-neo
 
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Taxi645
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:30 pm

ewt340 wrote:
or modifications on A350-1000 with a tiny stretch of 1-2 meters with higher MTOW and newer more efficient engines to replace the old A350-1000.


I wonder what range an ultrafan A350-1000, with 900 MTOW, wing and MLG would have? Would be close to 8.000Nm I reckon.

With ultrafan efficiency I don't expect there to be any need for further MTOW increases. Personally I think increasing the 1000 capability will prove to be a mistake, although perhaps they needed a back up for their largest plane if the A380 would terminate.
Innovation is seeing opportunity before obstacle.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:55 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
The next A330neo customer could be Corsair. 10 plus A330-900 perhaps.


Will they use 9-abreast? The economics of a 9-abreast 339 will be hard to beat for ULCC, charter, and beach tourism operators.
 
ewt340
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:04 am

Taxi645 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
or modifications on A350-1000 with a tiny stretch of 1-2 meters with higher MTOW and newer more efficient engines to replace the old A350-1000.


I wonder what range an ultrafan A350-1000, with 900 MTOW, wing and MLG would have? Would be close to 8.000Nm I reckon.

With ultrafan efficiency I don't expect there to be any need for further MTOW increases. Personally I think increasing the 1000 capability will prove to be a mistake, although perhaps they needed a back up for their largest plane if the A380 would terminate.


The range for A350-1000 right now with the latest MTOW upgrade is around 8,400nm at 316t. I believe they are working on 319t variant for Qantas for extra range. So maybe if they got it to 319t, they wouldn't need to increase more MTOW. But I do believe they would take a hit on the range. Supposedly they stretched it by 2 meters max, they probably could lose up to 500nm to 1,000nm in range. Probably be around mid-7,000nm, give or take. Which is adequate.

But then again, I think they might increase A350-1000 capability further instead of stretching it, like what they did with A321XLR. No stretch, just upgrade IF they decided to keep A330neo alive. But the slow sales require Airbus to do some serious change and it might as well to eliminate A330neo and A380.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:47 pm

Although never firmed, it is looking increasingly likely that Air Asia X will take A321LRs instead of at least some of the MoU for 34 A339s signed earlier this year.

It does make sense for them to have something smaller than an A330 in their "long haul" sub-fleet.

http://atwonline.com/airframes/airasia- ... er-a321lrs
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:12 pm

The next A330neo order seems to be from MEA.
 
346fetish
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:00 am

Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:27 pm

Who will take delivery of the A330-900neo in 2019?
"BA have got waterfalls in their head office. The only time we have waterfalls in the Ryanair office is when the toilet leaks."
 
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flee
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Re: Next A330 Neo orders....

Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:49 am

346fetish wrote:
Who will take delivery of the A330-900neo in 2019?

Not a complete list but here are some airlines:

TAP Air Portugal - will be taking delivery of a lot of frames
RwandAir
WOW Air
Delta
Azul
Air Mauritius
Air Senegal
Thai AirAsia X
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