China Airlines reducing Taipei Taoyuan – Ontario service from 7 to 5 weekly, from 24AUG18 to 24OCT18.

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 3604527106

No shock - frequency reduced - 5x weekly effective August 24th.

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 3604527106

It'd be a pity if they decide to cancel the route altogether, but since it's just a seasonal cut, there's still hope.

dcajet wrote:

China Airlines reducing Taipei Taoyuan – Ontario service from 7 to 5 weekly, from 24AUG18 to 24OCT18.

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 3604527106

We will see if this route makes it. This is a bad sign. But early days...

danj555 wrote:

Yea not really sure why ONT is Taipei's newest battle ground? Why not another LA regional airport like LGB? I think ONT is good at the moment with one daily carrier.

Because ONT is closer to some of the largest Chinese diaspora areas in So Cal. Not sure if LGB even has any CBP processing facilities.

Yea not really sure why ONT is Taipei's newest battle ground? Why not another LA regional airport like LGB? I think ONT is good at the moment with one daily carrier.

Yup no shock.

Going daily with the 77W was overly ambitious as many here stated, and the results (loads/yields) are proving this out.

Personally, I see something like 3x weekly to ONT using smaller A350 might be the better mix.

Though I would definitely also add capacity back to LAX. Having only single flight there hands market to EVA with their 3 dailies.

danj555 wrote:

Yea not really sure why ONT is Taipei's newest battle ground? Why not another LA regional airport like LGB? I think ONT is good at the moment with one daily carrier.

Jetblue tried to build a CBP building for their axed international flights from Mexico, though the locals screamed bloody murder and shut that down. So, LGB is not happening.

LGB does not have a CBP facility and unfortunately will not get one anytime soon due to community opposition and subsequent negative City Council vote. ONT is closer than LGB to the large ethnic Chinese communities east of Downtown L.A.

Just checked their website, and they've cut Wednesday and Fridays. From what I saw in expert flyer those were the days the plane went virtually empty. So, I'm not surprised those days were cut. Another day I would had cut was Tuesday. Keep it to its original 4x weekly and have those cuts days for relaunching at LAX.

Yes surely they have lost customers at LAX and driven them into BR arms.

enilria wrote:

dcajet wrote:

China Airlines reducing Taipei Taoyuan – Ontario service from 7 to 5 weekly, from 24AUG18 to 24OCT18.

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 3604527106

We will see if this route makes it. This is a bad sign. But early days...

Could be just right sizing it.

many321 wrote:

danj555 wrote:

Yea not really sure why ONT is Taipei's newest battle ground? Why not another LA regional airport like LGB? I think ONT is good at the moment with one daily carrier.

Jetblue tried to build a CBP building for their axed international flights from Mexico, though the locals screamed bloody murder and shut that down. So, LGB is not happening.

Shame that NIMBYs have alot of control in So Cal....

danj555 wrote:

Yea not really sure why ONT is Taipei's newest battle ground? Why not another LA regional airport like LGB? I think ONT is good at the moment with one daily carrier.

What do you mean? Pretty sure CI is the only one flyig to asia from ONT

nmdrdh787 wrote:

enilria wrote:

dcajet wrote:

China Airlines reducing Taipei Taoyuan – Ontario service from 7 to 5 weekly, from 24AUG18 to 24OCT18.

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 3604527106

We will see if this route makes it. This is a bad sign. But early days...

Could be just right sizing it.

I think that's what they're going for. I've being checking Expert Flyer for this flight and noticed that Wednesday and Fridays were the days the 77W went mostly empty, and those are the days that got cut. I would have also cut Tuesday since its another weak day for them. Though Sunday, Monday, Thursday, and Saturday are the days they see more business.

Well well. Reality catching up with CI.

Good sign they are waiting until end of August and not immediate. That timeframe is when most airlines reduce their summer increases.

If only they had a smaller aircraft that can do the job.

Dupp

And the BOS folks think the 2x subsidized flight to CTU is a gold mine.

These type of flights are a joke. No for profit airline would attempt these routes.

Is this the DTW thread?

nomorerjs wrote:

And the BOS folks think the 2x subsidized flight to CTU is a gold mine.

These type of flights are a joke. No for profit airline would attempt these routes.

Is this the DTW thread?

you're in the wrong thread mate.

nomorerjs wrote:

These type of flights are a joke. No for profit airline would attempt these routes.

Leaving L.A. proper out of the picture:
the San Gabriel Valley is still 1.5million people, with 8 of its cities having the highest percentage of Asian Americans for cities over 25,000 people, and nearly a half dozen of them having median household incomes in excess of $100,000.

That it's taken this long for an airline to attempt, is more of a surprise than anything.

(That isn't to say that CI is however the optimum carrier to do so, or that they've executed it in the best way possible)

LAX772LR wrote:

nomorerjs wrote:

These type of flights are a joke. No for profit airline would attempt these routes.

Leaving L.A. proper out of the picture:
the San Gabriel Valley is still 1.5million people, with 8 of its cities having the highest percentage of Asian Americans for cities over 25,000 people, and nearly a half dozen of them having median household incomes in excess of $100,000.

That it's taken this long for an airline to attempt, is more of a surprise than anything.

(That isn't to say that CI is however the optimum carrier to do so, or that they've executed it in the best way possible)

1.5 million is still a rather small amount of population when we are talking about Trans-Pacific flights that need to be completed by something larger than 767?

c933103 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

nomorerjs wrote:

These type of flights are a joke. No for profit airline would attempt these routes.

Leaving L.A. proper out of the picture:
the San Gabriel Valley is still 1.5million people, with 8 of its cities having the highest percentage of Asian Americans for cities over 25,000 people, and nearly a half dozen of them having median household incomes in excess of $100,000.

That it's taken this long for an airline to attempt, is more of a surprise than anything.

(That isn't to say that CI is however the optimum carrier to do so, or that they've executed it in the best way possible)

1.5 million is still a rather small amount of population when we are talking about Trans-Pacific flights that need to be completed by something larger than 767?

Which is a good thing that one therefore *can't* actually "leave L.A. out of the picture."

In theory such a flight could pull from the Riverside and San Bernardino areas as well, though not sure to what extent the demographics would comport to flights to east/southeast Asia.

nomorerjs wrote:

And the BOS folks think the 2x subsidized flight to CTU is a gold mine.

These type of flights are a joke. No for profit airline would attempt these routes.

Is this the DTW thread?

The BOS people realize CTU is a money loser (no US originating business traveler will take U3 over CX, JL or a US3) but take pride Massport getting the flight.

ONT-TPE is bonkers.. ONT doesn't even have SJD or MEX service!

adamh8297 wrote:

[
ONT-TPE is bonkers.. ONT doesn't even have SJD or MEX service!

If CI had done what they originally announced last year, which was 4/week and not start daily, we would all be applauding them given the actual loads they now have on a daily. If they had put a A359 on instead of the 77W we would be calling them geniuses.

jcded wrote:

LGB does not have a CBP facility and unfortunately will not get one anytime soon due to community opposition and subsequent negative City Council vote. ONT is closer than LGB to the large ethnic Chinese communities east of Downtown L.A.

It's one lady on the council that pushes he nimbi's. They won't be able to hold out forever. BUR & SNA too limited range wise & ONT s too far out to make a old reliever for LAX.

Camarillo right off the 101 or Oxnard could both be expanded to support international flights. Oxnard has the benefit of no houses between the end of the current runway or a north runway addition without T-O over homes. Camarliio has the advantage of freeway exit already & space available of exit expansion. This would be a nice drive for people coming from Malibu & the north valley areas vs fighting traffic to LAX.

CI clearly seems to be going after local Taiwanese pax, the connection times are horrible with BKK being one of the few viable connections unless you want 30hr + trips with long layovers in Taipei. There is a large Asian community in the Ontario area, although I doubt most of them are Taiwanese or only want to fly to Taipei.

The largest Taiwanese center in the USA is well within ONTs catchment area not LAX.

trex8 wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

[
ONT-TPE is bonkers.. ONT doesn't even have SJD or MEX service!

If CI had done what they originally announced last year, which was 4/week and not start daily, we would all be applauding them given the actual loads they now have on a daily. If they had put a A359 on instead of the 77W we would be calling them geniuses.

Exactly! They screwed the pooch. Let's see if this reduction helps ride out their rocky start at ONT.

I’m sure that CI never planned to run this flight daily after the summer season. If that route was doing that badly I’m sure they would cut days sooner than late August. I was in ONT last Tuesday and the line for CI check in was very long. Probably a good sign the summer loads have picked up. Should be interesting to see the numbers for June.

adamh8297 wrote:

nomorerjs wrote:

And the BOS folks think the 2x subsidized flight to CTU is a gold mine.

These type of flights are a joke. No for profit airline would attempt these routes.

Is this the DTW thread?

The BOS people realize CTU is a money loser (no US originating business traveler will take U3 over CX, JL or a US3) but take pride Massport getting the flight.

ONT-TPE is bonkers.. ONT doesn't even have SJD or MEX service!

Didn't AM fly at some point to ONT?

dcajet wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

nomorerjs wrote:

And the BOS folks think the 2x subsidized flight to CTU is a gold mine.

These type of flights are a joke. No for profit airline would attempt these routes.

Is this the DTW thread?

The BOS people realize CTU is a money loser (no US originating business traveler will take U3 over CX, JL or a US3) but take pride Massport getting the flight.

ONT-TPE is bonkers.. ONT doesn't even have SJD or MEX service!

Didn't AM fly at some point to ONT?

Yes, several different iterations IIRC. Guess Y4 drove them out. (What’s the name of AM’s service to ethnic markets in CA? Mi something. They still doing that? Is it Y only?)

dcajet wrote:

Didn't AM fly at some point to ONT?

At one point or another, AM has done ONT-AGU, ONT-BJX, ONT-GDL, ONT-MEX, ONT-MLM, and ONT-SJD. All these routes were served with a mix of M82/M83/M87 aircraft. This was in the early 2000s. The only route that really stuck was GDL, was the only AM route that ever operated everyday of the week, and was served with 73G/738 after the Mad dogs were retired.

Another small Mexican LCC called Lineas Aereas Azteca also flew ONT-GDL continuing to MEX using 73Gs before they folded.

BGS91762 wrote:

I was in ONT last Tuesday and the line for CI check in was very long. Probably a good sign the summer loads have picked up. Should be interesting to see the numbers for June.

Same here.

jonair8 wrote:

dcajet wrote:

Didn't AM fly at some point to ONT?

Another small Mexican LCC called Lineas Aereas Azteca also flew ONT-GDL continuing to MEX using 73Gs before they folded.

I still remember when they folded and they left their 737 parked on one of the hangers. Even the local Telemundo station did a report about plane still being there several months to a year after the airline folded. they talked about the poor condition of the aircraft. In all, amusing reporting from them that gave me a good laugh.

adamh8297 wrote:

ONT doesn't even have SJD or MEX service!

ONT did have MEX service with AM a few times in the past. Most if not all traffic going from ONT to Mexico (the country) is VFR and does not go to MEX but to other cities such as Guadalajara, Leon/El Bajio, etc. Traffic to MEX is mostly corporate/business and thus not a prime candidate for ONT; LAX serves that market,

CI LA office stated that ONT landing/departure times will be shifted to night time hours in winter schedules. This is expected to help passengers connect to SE Asian and Mainland destinations.

Finally a move in the right direction?

Source: https://www.worldjournal.com/5622410/ar ... %E6%95%B4/

kaichinshih wrote:

CI LA office stated that ONT landing/departure times will be shifted to night time hours in winter schedules. This is expected to help passengers connect to SE Asian and Mainland destinations.

Finally a move in the right direction?

Source: https://www.worldjournal.com/5622410/ar ... %E6%95%B4/

Read the article and it seems CI heard from passengers who wanted to take the flight, but didn't due to lack of connection to SE Asia and the Mainland. Good on them for trying to ride the ship.

many321 wrote:

kaichinshih wrote:

CI LA office stated that ONT landing/departure times will be shifted to night time hours in winter schedules. This is expected to help passengers connect to SE Asian and Mainland destinations.

Finally a move in the right direction?

Source: https://www.worldjournal.com/5622410/ar ... %E6%95%B4/

Read the article and it seems CI heard from passengers who wanted to take the flight, but didn't due to lack of connection to SE Asia and the Mainland. Good on them for trying to ride the ship.

What you've stated should be the case, but it wasn't stated in the article. The article was referring to another connection problem: intra-US connections.

The article interviewed an Eastern LA resident who loved the flight. She once forgot her passport but was able to head back home and still make the flight. She said the flight is perfect for passengers not heading to other states; for passengers travelling onwards to cities in other states, the flight is inconvenient. This made her worried. She pointed out that China Airlines cannot only rely on the small Eastern LA market.

Another interviewee loved how, after she got out the car and arrived at ONT, it took her less than 30 mins before she cleared security. She also compared ONT to the crowded and overwhelming LAX.

kaichinshih wrote:

many321 wrote:

kaichinshih wrote:

CI LA office stated that ONT landing/departure times will be shifted to night time hours in winter schedules. This is expected to help passengers connect to SE Asian and Mainland destinations.

Finally a move in the right direction?

Source: https://www.worldjournal.com/5622410/ar ... %E6%95%B4/

Read the article and it seems CI heard from passengers who wanted to take the flight, but didn't due to lack of connection to SE Asia and the Mainland. Good on them for trying to ride the ship.

What you've stated should be the case, but it wasn't stated in the article. The article was referring to another connection problem: intra-US connections.

The article interviewed an Eastern LA resident who loved the flight. She once forgot her passport but was able to head back home and still make the flight. She said the flight is perfect for passengers not heading to other states; for passengers travelling onwards to cities in other states, the flight is inconvenient. This made her worried. She pointed out that China Airlines cannot only rely on the small Eastern LA market.

Another interviewee loved how, after she got out the car and arrived at ONT, it took her less than 30 mins before she cleared security. She also compared ONT to the crowded and overwhelming LAX.

That google translator didn't help much. Thanks for giving out the proper translation. It's good they've gone ahead, and swap the flight to nights for later in the year. Let's see if this move proves the hypothesis that most here have had for it to succeed. If not, at least they tried.

DolphinAir747 wrote:

danj555 wrote:

Yea not really sure why ONT is Taipei's newest battle ground? Why not another LA regional airport like LGB? I think ONT is good at the moment with one daily carrier.

What do you mean? Pretty sure CI is the only one flyig to asia from ONT

China Air and EVA both fly there

danj555 wrote:

DolphinAir747 wrote:

danj555 wrote:

Yea not really sure why ONT is Taipei's newest battle ground? Why not another LA regional airport like LGB? I think ONT is good at the moment with one daily carrier.

What do you mean? Pretty sure CI is the only one flyig to asia from ONT

China Air and EVA both fly there

EVA does not.

CI on social media is promoting complementary one night stay at TPE for transferring passengers, except those going to Hong Kong and Bangkok on/or before 27Oct18. Seems this is being done in the meanwhile until the flight moves to nights.

https://www.facebook.com/ChinaAirlinesU ... 7968284136

kaichinshih wrote:

CI LA office stated that ONT landing/departure times will be shifted to night time hours in winter schedules. This is expected to help passengers connect to SE Asian and Mainland destinations.

Finally a move in the right direction?

Source: https://www.worldjournal.com/5622410/ar ... %E6%95%B4/

And they clarified that 5 weekly is just a seasonal adjustment for September and October

BGS91762 wrote:

The largest Taiwanese center in the USA is well within ONTs catchment area not LAX.

ONT and LAX have the same catchment area as demonstrated by the trouble CI is having filling the seats form ONT. Most local passengers (since there are no connecting ones for the ONT service) rather take the late night departure from LAX than use the daytime ONT flight.

c933103 wrote:

And they clarified that 5 weekly is just a seasonal adjustment for September and October

That doesn’t mean anything.

I won’t be surprised if CI cuts ONT to 3-4 weekly from 27OCT18 and resume the afternoon LAX flight with like 5 weekly.

They really need to put the 359s for the entire LAX/ONT to sustain 2+1 daily with proper crew rotations.

At the end of the article, area attractions are touted.

1. Gotta love how the article mentions Raging Waters (water park) in San Dimas as a draw. LOL!!

2. 40 minutes to South Coast Plaza is a stretch too.

rbavfan wrote:

Camarillo right off the 101 or Oxnard could both be expanded to support international flights.

For what business market? What little they can scrap from Camarillo and maybe Santa Barbara?

Who's going to drive that far out from Downtown, Hollywood, the West side, the Valley, etc to fly out of Oxnard?