airlineaddict wrote:

At the end of the article, area attractions are touted.

1. Gotta love how the article mentions Raging Waters (water park) in San Dimas as a draw. LOL!!

2. 40 minutes to South Coast Plaza is a stretch too.

Think the Asian market is much mired geared to visiting Ontario Mills than South Coast Plaza. The whole mall has been redone and remarketed in recent years for the Asian visitor.

airlineaddict wrote:

At the end of the article, area attractions are touted.

1. Gotta love how the article mentions Raging Waters (water park) in San Dimas as a draw. LOL!!.

I would love to fire the marketing team since that's not a place I'd be pushing. I say that as a person who lives ten minutes from there. I would not recommend anyone going there.

BGS91762 wrote:

Think the Asian market is much mired geared to visiting Ontario Mills than South Coast Plaza. The whole mall has been redone and remarketed in recent years for the Asian visitor.

CI seems to have a marketing problems since I follow them on Instagram and from what I see they don't push new destinations, special offers, or promotions. They just leave that for Facebook. However, China Southern or Xiamen are pushing their stuff every other day in most of their social media platforms.

If I was the marketing director, I'd be pushing on Instagram and Twitter the complementary one day stay and half day free tour to TPE for outbound transfer passengers. For the inbound passengers, I'd advertise the Disney Resort, Knotts Berry Farm, the OC beaches, Ontario Mills with their recent re-brand, San Manuel and Morongo Casinos, and the Cabazon outlets. During winter season, I'd be promoting Mt. Baldy and Big Bear.

I may be wrong, though from what I see they're just pissing in the wind.

MEL is getting 77W in winter, wonder if that adjustment has to do with ONT or LAX?

coolfish1103 wrote:

MEL is getting 77W in winter, wonder if that adjustment has to do with ONT or LAX?

Their last ordered A359 is on the flight line, so should be delivered by early fall. Maybe put 11 flights LAX, 4 ONT with A359?? What to do with the 77Ws ?
OT . Aus/NZ is seasonal unless theyre really picking up lots of people going to Europe. How are the Euro flights especially London doing? Could AMS go 77W? It used to be a 744 daily via BKK now A359 4/week non stop.Take the LAX/ONT 77Ws and send them to Europe? Turn all west coast flights into A359. SFO/YVR are A359 already (as is HNL). Heck they should do that for JFK also.

I have reservation on CI from ONT to TPE in November. Flight has changed to nighttime departure and changed to A350. Looks like CI is making changes for long term success at ONT.

Yes-Looks like they are not quite ready to throw the towel in yet...Flight goes back to daily from oct28 with the a350. Many airlines seem to think the a350 and 787 are like light bulbs- plug them in and things become alright.

trex8 wrote:

coolfish1103 wrote:

MEL is getting 77W in winter, wonder if that adjustment has to do with ONT or LAX?

Their last ordered A359 is on the flight line, so should be delivered by early fall. Maybe put 11 flights LAX, 4 ONT with A359?? What to do with the 77Ws ?
OT . Aus/NZ is seasonal unless theyre really picking up lots of people going to Europe. How are the Euro flights especially London doing? Could AMS go 77W? It used to be a 744 daily via BKK now A359 4/week non stop.Take the LAX/ONT 77Ws and send them to Europe? Turn all west coast flights into A359. SFO/YVR are A359 already (as is HNL). Heck they should do that for JFK also.

SFO returned to 77W daily when they bowed out of the afternoon flights. Too hard to compete with 3x daily BR and daily UA 77W.

The loads reported at ONT would be full for the A350. Also the night flights will be easy connections to the large Vietnamese and Filipino populations in the ONT catchment area.

Sweeet! Get to plane spot the A350. Crossing my fingers this is the winning formula.

Just checked CI's timetable and here's the schedule.

CI23 23:50 - 05:25 Daily
CI24 18:10 - 13:50 Daily

I would had kept the flight to 5 day, then go back to daily.

From the looks, they're keeping the afternoon return flight from TPE and parking the A350 until its night departure from ONT.

Leaving the plane on the ground until midnight makes a lot more sense for connections in TPE. Smart move to do that and to keep the existing outbound as a semi-red eye.

many321 wrote:

Just checked CI's timetable and here's the schedule.

CI23 23:50 - 05:25 Daily
CI24 18:10 - 13:50 Daily

I would had kept the flight to 5 day, then go back to daily.

From the looks, they're keeping the afternoon return flight from TPE and parking the A350 until its night departure from ONT.

It also likely means LAX afternoon flight is not returning, since the flight adjustment only made for the ONT departure (TPE only 2 hours shift).

coolfish1103 wrote:

many321 wrote:

Just checked CI's timetable and here's the schedule.

CI23 23:50 - 05:25 Daily
CI24 18:10 - 13:50 Daily

I would had kept the flight to 5 day, then go back to daily.

From the looks, they're keeping the afternoon return flight from TPE and parking the A350 until its night departure from ONT.

It also likely means LAX afternoon flight is not returning, since the flight adjustment only made for the ONT departure (TPE only 2 hours shift).

The LAX daytime flight not returning likely has to do with DL/KE JV sucking away all the SE Asia transit traffic.

I find interesting is they didn't do entire swap for the flight. Only the nighttime outbound. Are the inbound numbers from TPE better than the outbound flights?

inbound from TPE at 6pm is already late enough for majority of connections to south east asia. SIN(SUB)/BKK/SGN/HAN/PNH/MNL/HKG/RGN now have same day connecting flights in both directions.

What's the advantage on the timing? Most Chinese and Taiwanese airlines have flights that take off after midnight.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

What's the advantage on the timing? Most Chinese and Taiwanese airlines have flights that take off after midnight.

Not CI from Taipei. The only connecting flights were to BKK and HGK for the afternoon.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

What's the advantage on the timing? Most Chinese and Taiwanese airlines have flights that take off after midnight.

Are you talking about West Coast departure time or TPE departure time?

West Coast departure time around midnight is obvious. Works well for O&D ex-West Coast, and for onward connecting passengers the flight arrives at TPE in early morning just in time for connecting flights to elsewhere in Asia.

bzcat wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

What's the advantage on the timing? Most Chinese and Taiwanese airlines have flights that take off after midnight.

Are you talking about West Coast departure time or TPE departure time?

West Coast departure time around midnight is obvious. Works well for O&D ex-West Coast, and for onward connecting passengers the flight arrives at TPE in early morning just in time for connecting flights to elsewhere in Asia.

I understand the rationale of the after midnight departures on the west coast. IAH has some too. I don't understand the rationale for a departure at about 16:30 on the west coast. That just seems unusual considering foreign carriers on similar routes to the far east have after midnight departures.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

I understand the rationale of the after midnight departures on the west coast. IAH has some too. I don't understand the rationale for a departure at about 16:30 on the west coast. That just seems unusual considering foreign carriers on similar routes to the far east have after midnight departures.

Well for me, the afternoon departure is preferable. My destination is TPE itself, so I'm not worried about onward connections. I also don't tend to sleep that well on planes, so the afternoon departure from LAX/ONT is nice since it means arriving in the late evening in TPE and I can just go straight to bed when I arrive, rather than it being first thing in the morning. The afternoon flights also allow a fair number of connections to that flight at LAX, so they work for passengers destined to TPE from other North American cities as well. The latter point doesn't apply very well to ONT however, since there aren't many connection opportunities there.

bzcat wrote:

The LAX daytime flight not returning likely has to do with DL/KE JV sucking away all the SE Asia transit traffic.

Well, there was not much to transfer for the afternoon flight. CI 5 was never a good flight timed for SE Asia transit. CI 6 maybe carried a few.

What CI gave up are mostly Taiwanese business transit pax who would use CI 6 to head to other cities in US, which KE/DL JV won't work too well with two transfers. These pax probably went to BR or just KE if they only need a big metro city transfer.

With ONT now timed to allow transfers from both sides, I would think the load should be averaged around 70% when winter schedule kicks in. Summer peak time they should be okay, plus they reduced the flight to 5 weekly after the peak season ends.

Based on Google Maps, I had no idea it was 48 minutes of travel time to ONT versus 46 minutes of travel time to LAX. I live in Culver City so I would never think of ONT as a time-saving option

AirAfreak wrote:

Based on Google Maps, I had no idea it was 48 minutes of travel time to ONT versus 46 minutes of travel time to LAX. I live in Culver City so I would never think of ONT as a time-saving option

ONT is only a time saving option for those east of the 605 Freeway or the OC. Luckily for CI that is where the majority of the Asian population lives in the LA area.

LAX772LR wrote:

In theory such a flight could pull from the Riverside and San Bernardino areas as well, though not sure to what extent the demographics would comport to flights to east/southeast Asia.

Worth noting that Riverside has a large research university which:

• draws a significant number of graduate students from East Asia across all disciplines
• has East and Southeast Asia as a region of focus in its humanities and social sciences departments, meaning frequent trips for research, conferences, etc.
• has one of the most diverse undergraduate student bodies in the country, with over 35% of its undergraduate population from East Asia or of East Asian descent

Some of those are likely to only generate seasonal demand, but it could be enough to save a route that's on the brink

AirAfreak wrote:

Based on Google Maps, I had no idea it was 48 minutes of travel time to ONT versus 46 minutes of travel time to LAX. I live in Culver City so I would never think of ONT as a time-saving option

I live in Culver City too. You are doing it wrong if it takes your 46 minutes to get to LAX. Even taking the Culver City #6 bus wouldn't take that long.

And you can make it to ONT in 48 minutes maybe on July 4 when there is no traffic. No way you make it to ONT under 1 hour when there is traffic (which is pretty much every other day).

AirAfreak wrote:

Based on Google Maps, I had no idea it was 48 minutes of travel time to ONT versus 46 minutes of travel time to LAX. I live in Culver City so I would never think of ONT as a time-saving option

Are you saying that it takes you 46 minutes to get from Culver City to LAX? Is that on an app scooter or what?

winginit wrote:

AirAfreak wrote:

Based on Google Maps, I had no idea it was 48 minutes of travel time to ONT versus 46 minutes of travel time to LAX. I live in Culver City so I would never think of ONT as a time-saving option

Are you saying that it takes you 46 minutes to get from Culver City to LAX? Is that on an app scooter or what?

That was probably based on the traffic conditions when he did the google search.

It took me 45 minutes to get to Washington Bl / I-405 one night. I went back to the airport, had a double/double animal style and spotted for another hour or so. Next attempt, I was back HOME in Brea in 45 minutes.

AAlaxfan wrote:

winginit wrote:

AirAfreak wrote:

Based on Google Maps, I had no idea it was 48 minutes of travel time to ONT versus 46 minutes of travel time to LAX. I live in Culver City so I would never think of ONT as a time-saving option

Are you saying that it takes you 46 minutes to get from Culver City to LAX? Is that on an app scooter or what?

That was probably based on the traffic conditions when he did the google search.

It took me 45 minutes to get to Washington Bl / I-405 one night. I went back to the airport, had a double/double animal style and spotted for another hour or so. Next attempt, I was back HOME in Brea in 45 minutes.

That still sounds like a one-off. I lived in Culver City for years and worked directly next to LAX and even during peak hours it never took me more than 25 minutes at worst either direction.

Yea, that sounds a bit off. could be one off situation. When I attended USC a few years ago, and knew 110/105/405 were packed to the brim, I drove my friends to LAX just by taking the streets and it took us around 35mins max with shortcuts that I knew in Culver City and Hawthorne. Saved us time, gas, plus we still had enough time to eat some animal style fries at In n Out.

The posted time was based on a random Google Maps search at whatever time of the morning it was I started that search. Opening this thread and reading it made me curious and the driving time result shocked me. I cannot manipulate the numbers and no, I don’t rent those app scooters, and no, this wasn’t on the morning of the 4th of July, so that’s what happened so accept it for what it is. Seriously, I swear I need a cocktail just to participate in this discussion. Honest to God.

CI has pushed the night outbound swap earlier than expected.

Their first night flight will be on Sep 17 using 77W.

The swap to the A359 will occur on Oct 28.

I’ve noticed the fare on China Airlines flight from ONT to Taipei have greatly increased recently. Some days the flights are more expensive than the LAX flight. Hope this is an indication that the load factors and yields have improved since it was moved to a night flight with better onward connections.

BGS91762 wrote:

I’ve noticed the fare on China Airlines flight from ONT to Taipei have greatly increased recently. Some days the flights are more expensive than the LAX flight. Hope this is an indication that the load factors and yields have improved since it was moved to a night flight with better onward connections.

"Furthermore, China Airlines’ new service to Taipei has proven to be popular amongst Asia-bound travelers wanting to avoid the traffic and lines at LAX. According to the airport, China Airlines’ load capacity is at 80 percent each way."
https://airlinegeeks.com/2018/09/30/ontario-airport-sees-a-significant-rise-in-passenger-traffic/

If you look at the ONT monthly reports its nowhere close to 80%. Maybe September was better, but August was 70.3%. (LAX in comparison was 91.8%)

Of course, some of the loads in September at ONT will be skewed also due to the canceled frequencies, so people were consolidated to the remaining flights which could boost loads on remaining flights.

Switching to A350 soon will help if for no other reason help boost LF mathematically.

Surprised to see some activity about this on this thread. Most of the chat has continued on Flyer talk.

Well, here are the numbers that members were able to pick up directly from Taiwan's CAA - Thanks especially to Coolfish

ONT
6 15,442/21,480 71.9%
7 15,186/22,196 68.4%
8 15,439/20,406 75.7%

With August - the numbers went up due to the reduction of days.

I've been tracking the loads/seat capacity with ONT with their night swap. Well, planes are going full most nights now unlike the how it was during the daytime. So, I expect the loads for September to be equal or hovering above 80%.

BGS91762 wrote:

I’ve noticed the fare on China Airlines flight from ONT to Taipei have greatly increased recently. Some days the flights are more expensive than the LAX flight. Hope this is an indication that the load factors and yields have improved since it was moved to a night flight with better onward connections.

You're right about that. I noticed this trend a month ago. When you reach late October, both ONT and LAX are at equal pricing, then on every other day LAX is cheaper than ONT. I have a bunch of screenshots (From Expert Flyer) with ONT's loads with their night flights, that 77W is flying full while at LAX its in the two days before a flight when their 77W gets almost full, or reaches max capacity.

It seems the switch to nights worked.

many321 wrote:

Well, here are the numbers that members were able to pick up directly from Taiwan's CAA - Thanks especially to Coolfish

ONT
6 15,442/21,480 71.9%
7 15,186/22,196 68.4%
8 15,439/20,406 75.7%

Those numbers don't match statistics provided by ONT. They are inflated 300-600 each month. Maybe CAA counts non-revs while ONT counts revenue passengers. So the revenue load factor is lower.

https://www.flyontario.com/corporate/statistics

UPlog wrote:

many321 wrote:

Well, here are the numbers that members were able to pick up directly from Taiwan's CAA - Thanks especially to Coolfish

ONT
6 15,442/21,480 71.9%
7 15,186/22,196 68.4%
8 15,439/20,406 75.7%

Those numbers don't match statistics provided by ONT. They are inflated 300-600 each month. Maybe CAA counts non-revs while ONT counts revenue passengers. So the revenue load factor is lower.

https://www.flyontario.com/corporate/statistics

Surprised they've barely posted the results for June, July, and August since they didn't post anything since May.

Who knows how both are counting since that's what CAA is reporting. Perhaps you're right.

Though, which are the numbers that we should be focusing on ONT's or CAA's? and which ones is CI looking at.

For those wanting to see CAA numbers, here's the link though its in Mandarin and you'll need a translator to help you out.

To make it easier. You'll find it under #10 subheading, and you'll notice excel and pdfs with the numbers. You'll find ONT on #20 in the first page.

http://www.caa.gov.tw/big5/content/index.asp?sno=969#10

janders wrote:

Switching to A350 soon will help if for no other reason help boost LF mathematically.

Not only that, a smaller, newer generation aircraft like the A350 should also reduce fuel costs, crew costs, and landing fees, to name a few cost reductions. I'm just kinda jealous that ONT gets the A350 and not LAX (though I completely understand why that's the case).

It's the one year anniversary of the route -
https://www.flyontario.com/corporate/ne ... al-airport

I'm still amazed they're still flying to ONT. I see it once in a while. I wonder what the load factors are? I'd love to see more int'l long-haul flights at ONT.

I’m sure load factors are decent to good. It’s yeilds that matter and so far there good enough.

If I was running Ontario I would cut some amazing deals to get some international airlines to fly into ONT
if they have the customs facilities to handle it. Once they can get enough international flights in there then the domestic airlines will automatically follow without having to discount maybe.

BGS91762 wrote:

AirAfreak wrote:

Based on Google Maps, I had no idea it was 48 minutes of travel time to ONT versus 46 minutes of travel time to LAX. I live in Culver City so I would never think of ONT as a time-saving option

Luckily for CI that is where the majority of the Asian population lives in the LA area.

Luckily? Pretty sure that's THE reason why CI started this route...

FlyThiz wrote:

I'm still amazed they're still flying to ONT. I see it once in a while. I wonder what the load factors are? I'd love to see more int'l long-haul flights at ONT.

As some have mentioned the LF doesn't matter much. However, ever since the change of equipment and departure to late nights, it's being good.

If you look at Taiwan's CAA statistics, they've been above 80% LF since OCT 2018.

OCT 18 82.9% (77W/A359)
NOV 18 86.4% (A359)
DEC 18 83.1%
JAN 19 93.1%
FEB 19 84.0%

Though, like most have mentioned, yields are that matter. Who knows how they're doing in that end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJWCHL7XM6c

Interesting comments on cargo, they flew 2000 tons out of ONT first year and its increasing. A rep for a company which claims to be the largest cargo expeditor out of the US and top 5 in the world claims TPE-ONT is saving some of their customers a day in transit time compared to going via LAX. I recall in other threads their was discussion that the cargo from LAX would not move to ONT.

trex8 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJWCHL7XM6c

Interesting comments on cargo, they flew 2000 tons out of ONT first year and its increasing. A rep for a company which claims to be the largest cargo expeditor out of the US and top 5 in the world claims TPE-ONT is saving some of their customers a day in transit time compared to going via LAX. I recall in other threads their was discussion that the cargo from LAX would not move to ONT.

I’ve taken this flight several times and am amazed at the extremely high load factors especially in business. Guess CI was smart on giving this route a try.

BGS91762 wrote:

trex8 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJWCHL7XM6c

Interesting comments on cargo, they flew 2000 tons out of ONT first year and its increasing. A rep for a company which claims to be the largest cargo expeditor out of the US and top 5 in the world claims TPE-ONT is saving some of their customers a day in transit time compared to going via LAX. I recall in other threads their was discussion that the cargo from LAX would not move to ONT.

I’ve taken this flight several times and am amazed at the extremely high load factors especially in business. Guess CI was smart on giving this route a try.

Don't tell that to the skeptics since they'll throw every excuse on why this route is not working lol!

Here are updated loads numbers after their night swap (numbers from Taiwan's CAA)

OCT 18 82.9% (77W/A359)
NOV 18 86.4% (A359)
DEC 18 83.1%
JAN 19 93.1%
FEB 19 84.0%
MAR 19 81.5%
APR 19 87.8%

If CI's yields are positively corresponding to those kind of loads and cargo, then I wonder if CX or BR are far behind on venturing into ONT?

CI is bringing back their 77W to ONT starting on OCT 27 2019. They've also pushed back their arrival to ONT.

CI23 ONT-TPE 23:50-05:20
CI24 TPE-ONT 20:30-16:00

In addition, at LAX, its brought back its daytime flight CI05/CI06 for three times a week. MWF. Starting on OCT 28, 2019. The 77W will also be used.

CI05 LAX-TPE 14:55-21:30
CI06 TPE-LAX 16:45-12:25

Glad to see but CI / ONT is spending a heckalot of money marketing this service. I was in an Irvine 99 Ranch the other day, and saw flyers offering rebates on Uber or parking charges. Kinda surprised CI hasn't attempted to coordinate a shuttle...