BTVB6Flyer
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Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:18 am

Just saw this posted on Twitter:

Looks like Swoop, WestJet's new LLC intends to start in October flights to TPA, LAS, MCO, FLL and PHX.

Interesting to see if it will be out of YYZ and be like a Rouge type takeover of a route, or be out of YHM.

Proposed Services
Swoop’s initial transborder operations will begin in October of this year and will include services
between points in Canada and Las Vegas, Orlando, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, and Phoenix.


https://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf102/101.pdf
 
axiom
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:25 am

Very interesting. No mention of operating bases or routes in the filing. As far as I know, Toronto is off limits for Swoop, relegaating them to secondary markets like Edmonton, Hamilton, and Halifax. Wonder if this is still the plan?
 
nname
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:06 am

 
Dominion301
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:43 pm

On page 5 of the filing:

“In the first year of operation, Swoop anticipates operating approximately 3,500 daily flights between cities in Canada, and cities in the United States.”

3,500 daily, wow ambitious lol. Obviously that’s a typo with the word “daily” accidentally slipping into the application.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:59 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
On page 5 of the filing:

“In the first year of operation, Swoop anticipates operating approximately 3,500 daily flights between cities in Canada, and cities in the United States.”

3,500 daily, wow ambitious lol. Obviously that’s a typo with the word “daily” accidentally slipping into the application.


Maybe they're just going to fly between Toronto and Buffalo all day long?
 
hollywoodcory
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:49 pm

I'm thinking the Phoenix flights could actually be to AZA rather then PHX?
 
alasizon
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:52 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
On page 5 of the filing:

“In the first year of operation, Swoop anticipates operating approximately 3,500 daily flights between cities in Canada, and cities in the United States.”

3,500 daily, wow ambitious lol. Obviously that’s a typo with the word “daily” accidentally slipping into the application.


Actually daily isn't an error here, its just all in the semantics of the English language. Its 3,500 flights total operated and each of them are going to be daily. 3,500 daily flights and 3,500 flights daily are two different metrics.
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embraer420
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:05 pm

Aren't WestJet an LCC themselves? Why did they launch Swoop?
 
ACDC8
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:14 pm

embraer420 wrote:
Aren't WestJet an LCC themselves? Why did they launch Swoop?

Swoops is an ULCC. WestJet is heading toward a more traditional multi class with a higher end and premium product while Swoop is offering the bare basics to compete with the likes of Flair.
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:17 pm

embraer420 wrote:
Aren't WestJet an LCC themselves? Why did they launch Swoop?


WestJet is becoming a full service airline with business class etc, and Swoop will cover the bottom end of the market.
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910A
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:57 pm

hollywoodcory wrote:
I'm thinking the Phoenix flights could actually be to AZA rather then PHX?

Currently I'm seeing 736 and 737's scheduled for AZA this winter. Swoop is all 738. Of course everything is subject to change. Meanwhile this will be the third season of service to AZA, the service must be doing okay for WS.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:00 pm

embraer420 wrote:
Aren't WestJet an LCC themselves? Why did they launch Swoop?


Lower cost structure and less frills (i.e., Y189, unbundled fares). Swoop isn't just a WS brand; it's a different corporate entity entirely with its own AOC. WS proper has really evolved to be the former Canadian Airlines International domestically and is likely to soon begin a JV with DL. (Air Canada Rouge, RV, likewise is a separate airline from AC proper with a lower cost structure and separate AOC.)
 
embraer420
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:34 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
embraer420 wrote:
Aren't WestJet an LCC themselves? Why did they launch Swoop?


Lower cost structure and less frills (i.e., Y189, unbundled fares). Swoop isn't just a WS brand; it's a different corporate entity entirely with its own AOC. WS proper has really evolved to be the former Canadian Airlines International domestically and is likely to soon begin a JV with DL. (Air Canada Rouge, RV, likewise is a separate airline from AC proper with a lower cost structure and separate AOC.)


Nice answer.WS and DL? Should be interesting.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:10 pm

So would this mean that Westjet mainline would be reducing service to these destinations or are they adding capacity to these routes? I cannot say that I am happy if it is the former since I would much rather have a more premium brand flying into Phoenix.
 
axiom
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:47 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
So would this mean that Westjet mainline would be reducing service to these destinations or are they adding capacity to these routes? I cannot say that I am happy if it is the former since I would much rather have a more premium brand flying into Phoenix.

As far as I know, Swoop will be operating out of bases which are not WS hubs. If anything, these airports could be seeing new destinations.

But this is my best effort to keep up with the situation - I could well be wrong, and routes like YYC-PHX could well be "rouge'd". This would also make sense. How does WS compete against Rouge's double daily 767s on YYZ-TPA with a 738 for example? This is one answer...
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:05 am

alasizon wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
On page 5 of the filing:

“In the first year of operation, Swoop anticipates operating approximately 3,500 daily flights between cities in Canada, and cities in the United States.”

3,500 daily, wow ambitious lol. Obviously that’s a typo with the word “daily” accidentally slipping into the application.


Actually daily isn't an error here, its just all in the semantics of the English language. Its 3,500 flights total operated and each of them are going to be daily. 3,500 daily flights and 3,500 flights daily are two different metrics.


Doesn’t seem like semantics to me. If they meant 3,500 daily flights, that sounds like 3,500 flights per day. If they meant that they’re flying 3,500 flights in a year, that would make sense. But to intentionally state 3,500 daily flights and actually mean 10-ish flights per day, each of which happens to be daily, takes some incredible linguistic gymnastics.
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Dominion301
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:28 am

hOMSaR wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
On page 5 of the filing:

“In the first year of operation, Swoop anticipates operating approximately 3,500 daily flights between cities in Canada, and cities in the United States.”

3,500 daily, wow ambitious lol. Obviously that’s a typo with the word “daily” accidentally slipping into the application.


Actually daily isn't an error here, its just all in the semantics of the English language. Its 3,500 flights total operated and each of them are going to be daily. 3,500 daily flights and 3,500 flights daily are two different metrics.


Doesn’t seem like semantics to me. If they meant 3,500 daily flights, that sounds like 3,500 flights per day. If they meant that they’re flying 3,500 flights in a year, that would make sense. But to intentionally state 3,500 daily flights and actually mean 10-ish flights per day, each of which happens to be daily, takes some incredible linguistic gymnastics.


Yup. Last time I checked the definition of daily is every day of the week or in the airline world, at least every business day.
 
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Acey
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:50 am

nname wrote:


Except for the part where it will actually fly next week, when many still think Jetlines never will.
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SierraPacific
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:05 am

axiom wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
So would this mean that Westjet mainline would be reducing service to these destinations or are they adding capacity to these routes? I cannot say that I am happy if it is the former since I would much rather have a more premium brand flying into Phoenix.

As far as I know, Swoop will be operating out of bases which are not WS hubs. If anything, these airports could be seeing new destinations.

But this is my best effort to keep up with the situation - I could well be wrong, and routes like YYC-PHX could well be "rouge'd". This would also make sense. How does WS compete against Rouge's double daily 767s on YYZ-TPA with a 738 for example? This is one answer...



I hope so I cannot stand ULCC carriers and it would be a shame that we would receive more of them. It would be awesome if they were supplemental to Westjet's flights to some smaller Canadian cities rather than cannibalizing existing routes.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Swoop Plans to Start US Routes In October (LAS,TPA,MCO, FLL & PHX)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:38 am

...
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