stylo777
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Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:34 am

Pretty simple question: what comes next on the longhaul market for any LHG airline? The last couple of years we saw some activity and here are my ideas (some are reopenings):

LH - YYC, KUL, HYD, DUR and particularly in China: CAN, CKG, CTU, SZX (the later two are currently served by CA to FRA 3x weekly and a nice 4x weekly would complement the offer)
LX - ICN, IAD, BLR, YYZ
OS - BOS, ICN
 
HB-IWC
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:34 am

Even though LH has only relatively recently restarted SIN, I could envisage OS eventually returning there. For LX, I agree about ICN, but how about CPT and EZE? Edelweiss has been taking care of some destinations Swiss may eventually want to take over.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:18 am

HB-IWC wrote:
Even though LH has only relatively recently restarted SIN, I could envisage OS eventually returning there. For LX, I agree about ICN, but how about CPT and EZE? Edelweiss has been taking care of some destinations Swiss may eventually want to take over.


Are you referring to MUC-SIN? LH is flying for years from FRA to SIN.
 
Zaf
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:40 am

They are very profitable with their current network. There is no need to open new routes and lose money.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:51 am

Zaf wrote:
They are very profitable with their current network. There is no need to open new routes and lose money.


Grow or die
Thanks and best Regards
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SCQ83
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:00 am

What about DUS or TXL to SFO/LAX on Eurowings?

With the demise of Air Berlin, those routes are no longer served. And with CGN-SEA being chopped, there will be flights from the West Coast to only FRA and MUC on Germany.

If Norwegian ever opens long-haul from Germany those routes will be on top of the list.
 
klm617
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:02 am

DTW-MUC
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Jetter330
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:07 am

And SN is getting nada!
 
Zaf
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:16 am

SCQ83 wrote:
What about DUS or TXL to SFO/LAX on Eurowings?

With the demise of Air Berlin, those routes are no longer served. And with CGN-SEA being chopped, there will be flights from the West Coast to only FRA and MUC on Germany.

If Norwegian ever opens long-haul from Germany those routes will be on top of the list.


LH had enough time to check ABs books. If those routes made sense they had started it. If they were profitable maybe AB would be still around.
Norwegian can have it.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:19 am

Durban has no chance of happening. Ever.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:05 pm

stylo777 wrote:
LX - ICN, IAD, BLR, YYZ

Given LX' lack of Spare Longhaul frames, I can't see any new destinations any time soon, particularly YYZ and IAD which are both already served by codeshare from both ZRH and GVA [albeit YYZ from GVA has an en-route stop at YUL] through the TATL metal neutral joint ventures with AC and UA respectively.
 
Pepper456
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:27 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
What about DUS or TXL to SFO/LAX on Eurowings?

With the demise of Air Berlin, those routes are no longer served. And with CGN-SEA being chopped, there will be flights from the West Coast to only FRA and MUC on Germany.

If Norwegian ever opens long-haul from Germany those routes will be on top of the list.

About TXL they should wait to open new Schonefeld airport (BER) and start these routes here.
The same about EK.
 
LGAviation
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:03 pm

stylo777 wrote:
LH - YYC, KUL, HYD, DUR and particularly in China: CAN, CKG, CTU, SZX (the later two are currently served by CA to FRA 3x weekly and a nice 4x weekly would complement the offer)


YYC - Could definitely see that happening summer-seasonal
KUL - Will eventually return, whether in one year or in five, without MH they'll keep a close eye on DE as they always do.
HYD - Will eventually come, at least if they continue to develop their AI relationship but I'd say give it two or three years
DUR - Longshot on LH metal, only if SA goes out of business otherwise maybe a candidate for EW out of MUC in a couple of years but we'll see WDH on mainline long before DUR. Maybe even VFA on EW before DUR.
CAN - Should be added at some point, especially with CZ being one-stop
CKG - Not really seeing that at this stage
CTU/SZX - Perfectly served by CA no need for more services.

I'd personally add TPE to the list, CGK and an eventual resumption of SYD are long shots. In Africa, in my mind there's a lot of places that could benefit from being also served by LH and not just SN to enable more connections.

OS and LX I don't see them adding too much at this stage before they receive new frames.
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sofianec
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:22 pm

MUC is being up-gauged, A380s being moved there, A350s. Munich airport is a fine facility but its nearing capacity which unfortunately I do not see being relieved by VIE.
FRA is fine, Terminal 3 slowly getting built (I see the work on infrastructure, transport being worked on)
DUS needs more flights to US, for sure, in fact may be a better reliever hub to Berlin.
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iadadd
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:47 pm

MUC-ADD ? Either LH or maybe an ET codeshare. This seems like a hole, especially as LH is growing their Munich hub, it seems that it would make strategic sense to link it with Star Alliance's most important hub in Africa
 
devron
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:04 pm

Get very uncreative, more USA destinations...
 
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idp5601
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:05 pm

[quote="stylo777"]
LH - YYC, KUL[quote]
They just pulled out of this a couple of years ago, and I don't think the market has grown sufficiently over the past two years for LH to restart this route (for like the 3rd time). I'd expect EW to fly to KUL if the LH Group has any plans of coming back to Malaysia. If there's any destination in Southeast Asia they could fly to that they don't serve, it would be MNL (and maybe HAN to a lesser extent). It's been about a decade since the last flew here, the Philippine economy (and the global economy in general) has dramatically changed since 2008, and premium demand is steadily growing. LH themselves have said they are considering reopening the route in the near future, so that helps as well.
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:20 pm

Munich - Bangkok! It is a route with high demand and it is necessary to return it, apart from these two cities are strong Star Alliance hubs
Munich - Osaka with the JV of ANA, LH seeks to expand further in Japan by 2020 in the Olympics Lufthansa Group also plans to increase its operations in Haneda
Munich - Buenos Aires is a good option, it's a pity that Lufthansa does not want to return to Sao Paulo from MUC very bad idea, and LATAM Brazil took this route
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
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Aeroflot777
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:51 pm

sofianec wrote:
Munich airport is a fine facility but its nearing capacity which unfortunately I do not see being relieved by VIE.


Nearing capacity? I'd be interested in seeing some numbers on that. The new satellite terminal is operational, and every time I fly in and out of MUC there seems to be plenty of space in both T1 and T2. Does not by any means create the impression of stressed facilities. Also, they have space to build another terminal/satellite should they need it.
 
ANA787
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:53 pm

LH returning to PDX-FRA.
 
YIMBY
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:23 pm

What about re-expansion in Latin America?

LIM to start with.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:28 pm

klm617 wrote:
DTW-MUC


No surprise here (for the 5th year in a row).
 
sofianec
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:32 pm

Aeroflot777 wrote:
sofianec wrote:
Munich airport is a fine facility but its nearing capacity which unfortunately I do not see being relieved by VIE.


Nearing capacity? I'd be interested in seeing some numbers on that. The new satellite terminal is operational, and every time I fly in and out of MUC there seems to be plenty of space in both T1 and T2. Does not by any means create the impression of stressed facilities. Also, they have space to build another terminal/satellite should they need it.


Every day I go to FRA and the place looks empty as well but they’re building Terminal 3 anyway. Hardly yours or mine perceptions of terminal emptiness are the cues for anything. MUC needs more runway capacity as with current growth figures capacity growth is impossible. That’s why LH started moving A380s to MUC. Demand is high, Munich is a very hot destination and Airport capacity must grow, in fact I won't rule-out MUC eventually out-pacing FRA as busiest in Germany.

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politic ... off-820542

http://bfy.tw/IeFk
Last edited by sofianec on Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.
A350WARP
 
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FA9295
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:33 pm

ANA787 wrote:
LH returning to PDX-FRA.

Yes, this route needs to come back!
 
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FA9295
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:34 pm

nomorerjs wrote:
klm617 wrote:
DTW-MUC


No surprise here (for the 5th year in a row).

Yeesh, that's quite the shocker there... :-/
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:42 pm

FA9295 wrote:
ANA787 wrote:
LH returning to PDX-FRA.

Yes, this route needs to come back!


Would be good for you all in PDX!
 
CREST777
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:00 am

In the US - pull SJC try PHX
For LX go daily ZRH-CPT

That's all I can think of for now.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:13 am

aviationaware wrote:
Durban has no chance of happening. Ever.

Durban does have 6 international airlines among the 12 passenger and 4 cargo airlines that serve it...so you never know...
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:24 am

Would like to see ORD-DUS/CGN/HAM/TXL, but they don’t seem to be viable, even with the big * hub at ORD.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:25 am

DTW-BER/RSW-FRA (LH)
(EW) Current offering needs to gain footing before expanded
(LX) RSW-ZRH

*This part of FL is a huge hit with German/Austrian/Swiss Tourists and property owners here, so further growth in that market just makes sense. Home builds here are at new record levels, and the beaches are still untapped vs the east coast, white sands and turquoise water
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
Cunard
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:28 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
Durban has no chance of happening. Ever.

Durban does have 6 international airlines among the 12 passenger and 4 cargo airlines that serve it...so you never know...


So you think on that basis Durban has a chance of securing Lufthansa!

So an airport that currently has 12 airlines serving it with 6 of those being International airlines only two of which are long haul that they are in a position to get Lufthansa.

The South African market is well covered by Lufthansa to Cape Town and Johannesburg and Durban has always had more of an British presence whereas as Cape Town and the Western Cape has more of appeal with Germans in general.

So I agree with the other poster I can't see Lufthansa flying to Durban but I'm not saying ever but for the foreseeable future no.
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c7aero
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:32 am

What about FRA-EZE-SCL as it was until 2006, ZHR-GRU-SCL until 2009, or FRA-GIG-SCL?
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Murdoughnut
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:57 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
Zaf wrote:
They are very profitable with their current network. There is no need to open new routes and lose money.


Grow or die


Hard to do with their current supply (or lack thereof) of pilots.
 
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chepos
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:00 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
DTW-BER/RSW-FRA (LH)
(EW) Current offering needs to gain footing before expanded
(LX) RSW-ZRH

*This part of FL is a huge hit with German/Austrian/Swiss Tourists and property owners here, so further growth in that market just makes sense. Home builds here are at new record levels, and the beaches are still untapped vs the east coast, white sands and turquoise water


RSW ZRH seems more like an Edelweiss type of route, can’t see LX flying that.

On another note, while I would love to see PHX return to the LH network I believe it is more of a DE route. They (DE) have recently launched this route 2 times a week. Let’s see how they make out.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:11 am

What happened to project Jump, the infamous low-cost service using paid-off 340s to low-yield destinations. All talk no action.
 
880dc8707
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:12 am

What about an OS VIE - PHL, that and Scandanavia are some of the few openings left in Europe. Get in B4 AA gets there.
 
axiom
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:23 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
What happened to project Jump, the infamous low-cost service using paid-off 340s to low-yield destinations. All talk no action.


Wow. That's a lot of arrogance coming from someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.

Jump was the internal designation for a strategy to reduce the J seat count on a handful of A343s, and rot deploy them to existing and new destinations with a relatively high ratio of Y demand. These are routes that are sufficiently lucrative to warrant the LH brand, for which the EW operation would not be suitable.

The only significant difference between the Jump operation and mainline was behind the scenes. The planes were technically transferred to the CL certificate and operated on a wet least by CL pilots with lower costs. The remaining cabin crew were LH mainline.

Jump has operated on new and existing destinations, including a mix of sun, business, and blended routes (e.g. CUN, ATL, TPA, respectively).

The operation is currently being brought back into "true" mainline now that a new pilot contract has been agreed upon. Several destinations launched by Julp are now also being upgauged to higher J configuration aircraft.

If anything, this has proven to be a successful way to leverage depreciated assets, negotiate for a new pilot contract, open new destinations and maintain marginal ones, and let destinations find the footing to grow into a more premium service which would not have been possible without a less J heavy aircraft.

Looks like plenty of action to me, even in the context of LH'a ever-changing operations. I'm sure others can add more to this.
 
AIRT0M
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:10 am

sofianec wrote:
Aeroflot777 wrote:
sofianec wrote:
Munich airport is a fine facility but its nearing capacity which unfortunately I do not see being relieved by VIE.


Nearing capacity? I'd be interested in seeing some numbers on that. The new satellite terminal is operational, and every time I fly in and out of MUC there seems to be plenty of space in both T1 and T2. Does not by any means create the impression of stressed facilities. Also, they have space to build another terminal/satellite should they need it.


Every day I go to FRA and the place looks empty as well but they’re building Terminal 3 anyway. Hardly yours or mine perceptions of terminal emptiness are the cues for anything. MUC needs more runway capacity as with current growth figures capacity growth is impossible. That’s why LH started moving A380s to MUC. Demand is high, Munich is a very hot destination and Airport capacity must grow, in fact I won't rule-out MUC eventually out-pacing FRA as busiest in Germany.

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politic ... off-820542

http://bfy.tw/IeFk


Hardly. FRA is growing much faster than MUC.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:28 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
Durban has no chance of happening. Ever.

Durban does have 6 international airlines among the 12 passenger and 4 cargo airlines that serve it...so you never know...


Cape Town already isn't the most stellar performer in LH's network, and Cape Town is infinitely more appealing to Europeans than Durban. Both in tourism and business. Durban literally has a negative chance of happening. They are more likely to cancel Cape Town than starting Durban. By a huge margin.
 
abauds201
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:39 am

klm617 wrote:
DTW-MUC

Doubtful since delta can only make it seasonal, despite so many connections on the DTW end.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:52 am

YIMBY wrote:
What about re-expansion in Latin America?
Lets see how LH keeps performing on FRA-PTY and await if Star Alliance hub PTY is worth of a LH MUC-PTY, LX ZRH-PTY or SN BRU-PTY..
LIM to start with.
LH FRA-LIM or MUC-LIM - depending on long-haul aircraft availability in either FRA or MUC - would be quite interesting
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:37 am

Maybe increased ops. in Seattle? ZRH - SEA, MUC - SEA, etc.
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sabby
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:27 am

I know it is a long shot but would love LH to go back at CCU. Such a big and historical city with no european airlines presence. Perhaps with the new A321Neo when they arrive with some blocked seats.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:57 am

aviationaware wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
Durban has no chance of happening. Ever.

Durban does have 6 international airlines among the 12 passenger and 4 cargo airlines that serve it...so you never know...


Cape Town already isn't the most stellar performer in LH's network, and Cape Town is infinitely more appealing to Europeans than Durban. Both in tourism and business. Durban literally has a negative chance of happening. They are more likely to cancel Cape Town than starting Durban. By a huge margin.

I agree..but like I said, still,,,we never know...
 
FatCat
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:03 am

LH's connections are not so strong in Latin America, right?
I think Ecuador, Colombia and Perù deserve more flight to and from Europe. Those Countries are great for tourism
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PanHAM
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:45 am

It is not what a Country deserves but what is economically feasible. BOG has a daily Connection, Venezuela kicked itself out of the race. GYE, UIO, LIM and SCL all had services when tag flights were still possible. Nowadays it is non-stop Connections only.
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axiom
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:03 am

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
Maybe increased ops. in Seattle? ZRH - SEA, MUC - SEA, etc.


I'm not sure if SEA can sustain the TA growth it's seen in the last few years, but perhaps WK could go summer seasonal to SEA from ZRH. Fits in with routes like SAN, DEN, and TPA which have blended leisure and business demand. On the downside, they already serve YVR. (Then again, TPA and MCO are both served, and they're closer than YVR and SEA.)
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:11 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Durban does have 6 international airlines among the 12 passenger and 4 cargo airlines that serve it...so you never know...


Cape Town already isn't the most stellar performer in LH's network, and Cape Town is infinitely more appealing to Europeans than Durban. Both in tourism and business. Durban literally has a negative chance of happening. They are more likely to cancel Cape Town than starting Durban. By a huge margin.

I agree..but like I said, still,,,we never know...


Who do you mean cancelling CPT...LH serving CPT from both MUC and FRA, WK from ZRH and OS launching from VIE. Seems only Eurowings will not be continuing the CGN flight.

Perhaps LH might be looking to launch MUC-JNB also?
 
pg89
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:30 pm

While I know these may be far from possible, here's an India wishlist:

DEL - EW to DUS, SN to BRU (would have added VIE but AI already picked that up)

BOM - OS to VIE

BLR - LH to MUC, LX to ZRH

MAA - none

PNQ - none (this is by far the weirdest connection LH group has to India, but it seems to be working well for them)

HYD, CCU - LH resumption to FRA, narrow-body long haul if needed...

AMD, ATQ, COK would be interesting adds

Elsewhere in South Asia, I think DAC is worth an add.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Next Lufthansa Group longhaul destinations

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:36 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
DTW-BER/RSW-FRA (LH)
(EW) Current offering needs to gain footing before expanded
(LX) RSW-ZRH

*This part of FL is a huge hit with German/Austrian/Swiss Tourists and property owners here, so further growth in that market just makes sense. Home builds here are at new record levels, and the beaches are still untapped vs the east coast, white sands and turquoise water


DTW-BER???? Really? ORD-BER doesnt even work.
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