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cvgComair
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:05 pm

I am interested to see how "secondary" secondary is. Basically the entire midwest is lacking this JetBlue-type service. I would think markets without JetBlue service including IND/CVG/CMH/STL/MCI/MEM would be perfect for this airline. Given the PTP structure similar to Allegiant, I think they could be very competitive in markets dominated by G4 if they are offering more amenities like WiFi/bigger seats/etc.
 
FlyPeoria
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:25 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
FlyPeoria wrote:
I hope "Moxy" looks at DAY. It is sad to see what air service there has become compared to even 10 years ago, let alone 20.

The market is no longer there. DAY is a shrinking city. Plenty of service down the road at CVG/IND/CMH.


Lower fares at CVG have hurt DAY, but the city has much potential. The official Dayton-Springfield-Greenville Combined Statistical Area has nearly 1.1 million residents and an LCC could potentially draw pax from Cincinnati's northern suburbs. Cincinnati and Dayton metro areas may be combined for the 2020 census, so DAY could be a "secondary" airport for this market.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:31 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
I wonder what their NYC area airport will be.
We can likely rule out LGA, JFK, and EWR.
TEB is too small. HPN is already full, and SWF is pretty far away.
Maybe they can try FRG? I’d go with ISP, but ISP mainly serves a market of its own. ISP is just under 2 hours (give or take depending on traffic) from Manhattan, but since there’s a train station right across from the airport, maybe they can try and lure people to go to NYC that way.


Shocking that you chose ISP ;)
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planecane
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:34 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Wow, David Neeleman, born in Sao Paulo, Brazil. The same guy that ordered a bunch of Embraer 190/195s (at JetBlue and at Azul). To say the least, he must have an in-depth knowledge of the E195E2 performance.

And he ended up picking the CS300 as the best aircraft for the job... :stirthepot:


I'm sure when he was preparing to enter Kindergarten, several years before Embraer even existed, he was becoming well versed in the performance of the E195E2!

I'm sure that the CS300 was determined to be the best fit for what he is trying to do when looking at performance and pricing.

Good luck to him. It is always better to have strong competition around. Is $100 million really enough to start an airline? At 50% discount, 60 CS300s will cost $2.4 billion. I don't know what the down payment is on aircraft financing but even at 10%, wouldn't he need at least $240 million just to secure the aircraft?
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:06 pm

A lot of people seem to be hung up on the name - "Moxy". I can almost guarantee that this is a project name rather than the name of the future airline, as was done previously. A significant amount of thought, time, and energy was expended to eventually reach the "JetBlue" name and branding strategy, and I'm confident that the same effort will take place this time around. For obvious reasons, Azul didn't require nearly the same effort, but this will. Moxy is evocative of the idea to start this new airline, but it assuredly won't be the name with which they move forward.

For any detractors and naysayers, normally I might be inclined to agree that an airline focused on secondary markets might be a questionable venture. However, David Neeleman has a track record that's pretty hard to argue with. He's great at raising funds (he'll have absolutely no problem raising at least $100 million in capital investment), he knows better than most anyone how to create a start-up from a technical standpoint (he was the first to navigate the new intensive FAA certification process with JetBlue), and his connections means he has the ability to bring on the right people. That means they can create the right branding, employ the right strategies, and create the right culture (a crucial and often overlooked element with many start-ups, but something which Neeleman puts in a great deal of effort).

Allegiant has proven that secondary markets are profitable, and have long been neglected by legacies. A start-up that has style and brand new, efficient aircraft can capture not only leisure travelers, but business travelers alike, which are things Allegiant hasn't been able to do (and probably never will).

Most start-up carriers are doomed to fail, but if anyone can pull off a bold new idea, David Neeleman should be at the top of everyone's list.
 
AirFiero
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:20 pm

MCIRNO wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
How about MKC as a hub, when the terminal is improved?


As much as I'd like to see an airline restarting service to the downtown airport in Kansas City, I just don't see it. Maybe they could have a starting hub at MCI with easy access to all corners of the US.


Oops, sorry. I meant MCI.
 
WNflyer1523
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:20 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
I wonder what their NYC area airport will be.
We can likely rule out LGA, JFK, and EWR.
TEB is too small. HPN is already full, and SWF is pretty far away.
Maybe they can try FRG? I’d go with ISP, but ISP mainly serves a market of its own. ISP is just under 2 hours (give or take depending on traffic) from Manhattan, but since there’s a train station right across from the airport, maybe they can try and lure people to go to NYC that way.


Shocking that you chose ISP ;)

Lol. As much as I’d love to see it happen I think they’d probably go with FRG instead.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:27 pm

Everytime I have an idea, David Neeleman steals it. Lol.

GYY will take some work, but is possible. He might have to pioneer (if you will) a connecting bus service in-house or as a separate venture to make his secondary and tertiary airport strategy credible to passengers.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:30 pm

September11 wrote:
Fex180 wrote:
ual763 wrote:
This is very interesting! And exciting! Can’t wait to see their livery


Bright Orange with white accents, like the soft drink of the same name .....or their precursor Skybus :P



JetOrange?


JetAmerica? Probably too conventional for him. I’m going with Fusion.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:33 pm

planecane wrote:
I'm sure that the CS300 was determined to be the best fit for what he is trying to do when looking at performance and pricing.

This, and the fact that Bombardier is still trying to get take the CSeries mainstream (now with a little help from Airbus). A sizable order like this brings them another step closer, particularly with it being another major order in the US. They know that he provided a crucial order for the E190 to get the E-Jet program off the ground while he was at JetBlue, and a large CS300 order that could potentially lead to significant future orders means that Bombardier is likely happy to offer some great terms. The CSeries from a technical standpoint is as good as it gets among small narrowbodies, so it's hard to say he'd be making a bad decision by choosing them over the E2. Now with the Airbus partnership, it means the CSeries is directly linked to the manufacturer that he's had a close relationship with for two decades.

planecane wrote:
Is $100 million really enough to start an airline? At 50% discount, 60 CS300s will cost $2.4 billion. I don't know what the down payment is on aircraft financing but even at 10%, wouldn't he need at least $240 million just to secure the aircraft?

That's all it took for JetBlue, and the A320 order was on a similar scale (I believe for 60 orders). Without knowing the numbers they're working from, it's hard to say how the accounting works out, but needless to say that if $100 million is their goal, then it's more than enough. Neeleman raised the same amount in 2000 for JetBlue, but it was more than they actually needed to get the airline operational because they knew how important it would be to survive the first couple of years. They were also concerned about passing the FAA's financial fitness review, and $100 million in capital was more than enough to satisfy the requirements. If he ends up needing to secure more funding, I don't think he would have any issues because of his reputation. I'm not saying that raising money is easy, but it will be significantly easier for him than it was 20 years ago, and it's easier for him than just about any other start-up.
 
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September11
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:38 pm

Fex180 wrote:
ual763 wrote:
This is very interesting! And exciting! Can’t wait to see their livery


Bright Orange with white accents, like the soft drink of the same name .....or their precursor Skybus :P



JetOrange?
Airliners.net of the Future
 
ual763
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:52 pm

September11 wrote:
Fex180 wrote:
ual763 wrote:
This is very interesting! And exciting! Can’t wait to see their livery


Bright Orange with white accents, like the soft drink of the same name .....or their precursor Skybus :P



JetOrange?


There is already an Orange Air in the USA doing charge MD-80 flights.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
Aliqiout
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:55 pm

Apparently not many actually read the article.

The plan is not to compete with the ULCCs, nor are they targeting secondary markets. They are are targetting secondary AIRPORTS in major markets with B6 type service levels.

The one thing I don't get is rulling out connections. I can understand not designing the network around connections, but does it really add that much cost to allow them where they make sense?

I know I'm in the minority but I have averaged 18 airline trips per year over the last 20 years and only 1 or 2 trips a year are between two airports with nonstop service. There must be some money in flying people like me around.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:56 pm

I would hope that SRQ would be somewhere in their plans. They could definitely charge a premium even as a low cost and still be the best cost option for Sarasota.
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smallvoyageur
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:57 pm

September11 wrote:
Fex180 wrote:
ual763 wrote:
This is very interesting! And exciting! Can’t wait to see their livery


Bright Orange with white accents, like the soft drink of the same name .....or their precursor Skybus :P



JetOrange?


With all the orange it sounds too much like easyJet America! :stirthepot:
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:07 pm

how about PEACHAmerica. Yes I am serious. I also like the idea of SRB being involved, I am willing to bet he would be interested at least.

Cant wait to follow this new venture, I'm already all in =-)
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:14 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Plus more CSeries orders!


I'm thinking that they'll probably take the ill-fated order off of Republic's hands, assuming that Moxy receives funding and launches successfully.
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:19 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Wow, David Neeleman, born in Sao Paulo, Brazil. The same guy that ordered a bunch of Embraer 190/195s (at JetBlue and at Azul). To say the least, he must have an in-depth knowledge of the E195E2 performance.

And he ended up picking the CS300 as the best aircraft for the job... :stirthepot:



Or Bombardier (or Republic Airways) gave him a deal too good to refuse. :lol:
 
SUNCTRY738
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:32 pm

Very interesting proposal. I like the idea of a new start up by someone with a great record of success.
 
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OA940
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:33 pm

Moxy isn't yet the confirmed name. It's a project name, like Qantas' Sunrise.

Really exciting to see a new airline, especially that big. If anyone can do it it's this guy. His record is excellent. The aircraft will no doubt help. Wide seats, quiet cabin (and if what he says is true, more legroom than usual, IFE and WiFi), large windows. Wish him the best of luck. Really excited for this.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:38 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Wow, David Neeleman, born in Sao Paulo, Brazil. The same guy that ordered a bunch of Embraer 190/195s (at JetBlue and at Azul). To say the least, he must have an in-depth knowledge of the E195E2 performance.

And he ended up picking the CS300 as the best aircraft for the job... :stirthepot:



Or Bombardier (or Republic Airways) gave him a deal too good to refuse. :lol:


To be fair E195E2 is the size of CS100. The plan is to order CS300, which is closer to a MAX7/A319neo than E195E2.

I don't know about being P2P, though. There's G4-esque operation that connect small airports to major tourist destinations like LAS and SFB/Florida Beaches; there's the "business-jet" like operation that the like of Onejet is trying right now. To connect all the dots you simply need too many flights left and right, though.
 
cheapgreek
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:47 pm

For secondary cities the choice should have been CS100. Better suited for small loads and better off shorter runways.
 
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admanager
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:04 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Plus more CSeries orders!


I'm thinking that they'll probably take the ill-fated order off of Republic's hands, assuming that Moxy receives funding and launches successfully.

My thought exactly and he may in fact be able to leverage Republic's assistance with the start-up vis-a-vis pilot recruitment.
 
sunking737
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:40 pm

I'm surprised he didn't talk with the NEW Midwest Express, ONEjet, or any other small carrier, That is looking for cash to start/continue ops.
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ridgid727
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:53 pm

Neeleman never has a problem getting investors. I would assume this will progress just as the article states. (Moxy will never be the airlines name) One of Davids big things he says in his speeches is that alluding to mis-information is sometimes the best information one can offer.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:59 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
September11 wrote:
Fex180 wrote:

Bright Orange with white accents, like the soft drink of the same name .....or their precursor Skybus :P



JetOrange?


JetAmerica? Probably too conventional for him. I’m going with Fusion.

Wouldn’t that be JetAmerica III ? lol
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
ilovelamp
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:16 pm

Something inside me thinks Neeleman stalks these A.net boards because this is the perfect wet dream for a lot of posters here. :)

Seriously, I’ll say it again, I have major doubts this is the right time to launch any new carrier unless acquisitions or mergers are in the near future. The next 5-10 years is a major problem for pilot supply. The US is past due for our next economic recession and the C Series wage rates have already been set way above what this new carrier would be able to pay on the open market. Good luck getting the best talent with that in mind.
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:34 pm

ridgid727 wrote:
(Moxy will never be the airlines name) One of Davids big things he says in his speeches is that alluding to mis-information is sometimes the best information one can offer.


Does that mean that the 60 CSeries could also be misinformation? Maybe David will actually order up some 737-7 MAXes instead, SouthWest/WestJet style. 8-)
 
ridgid727
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:35 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
ridgid727 wrote:
(Moxy will never be the airlines name) One of Davids big things he says in his speeches is that alluding to mis-information is sometimes the best information one can offer.


Does that mean that the 60 CSeries could also be misinformation? Maybe David will actually order up some 737-7 MAXes instead, SouthWest/WestJet style. 8-)



I doubt that, he is very loyal to airbus as they believed in him when Boeing sent him out the door.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:43 pm

FlyPeoria wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
FlyPeoria wrote:
I hope "Moxy" looks at DAY. It is sad to see what air service there has become compared to even 10 years ago, let alone 20.

The market is no longer there. DAY is a shrinking city. Plenty of service down the road at CVG/IND/CMH.


Lower fares at CVG have hurt DAY, but the city has much potential. The official Dayton-Springfield-Greenville Combined Statistical Area has nearly 1.1 million residents and an LCC could potentially draw pax from Cincinnati's northern suburbs. Cincinnati and Dayton metro areas may be combined for the 2020 census, so DAY could be a "secondary" airport for this market.


I agree. Airport officials say they have data indicating they're still pulling people from places like Mason. There's nothing wrong with CVG but, given the choice, I'm picking DAY seven days a week if everything's (mostly) even. DAY could be a secondary airport for Cincinnati depending on how FR they want to go with their interpretation of the term.

I keep thinking NK could be a fit there if they wanted to try a neglected market. There's also plenty of gate space up for grabs. Moxy focus city? ;)
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freakyrat
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:47 pm

Suggested Hubs: TEB, HPN, MMU or SWF for the New York Area. KPU for Atlanta. MCI or MKC for the Midwest, AUS or SAT for the Southwest, ONT for the Los Angelas area and OAK for the San Francisco area. COS for the Denver area. Not sure fr the Seattle area. MDW and ORD are to congested. I would look to RFD for Chicago.
 
danj555
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:05 pm

Maybe this is the embraer fleet replacement strategy, we know that decision is coming up. I get that this is more point to point and more secondary.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:06 pm

Domestic yields are getting pretty rich--I'm surprised there aren't more legitimate startup attempts...and I don't mean Eastern or Branson Air Express.
VS11 wrote:
Maybe Sir Richard Branson will team up with him this time. Branson passed on being part of JetBlue and regretted it so after the VX acquisition, this might be a good opportunity for the two of them to join forces - they have similar visions .

*Looks at Branson's airline record*....why?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
VS11
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:59 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
VS11 wrote:
Maybe Sir Richard Branson will team up with him this time. Branson passed on being part of JetBlue and regretted it so after the VX acquisition, this might be a good opportunity for the two of them to join forces - they have similar visions .

*Looks at Branson's airline record*....why?


What's wrong with Branson's airline record?
 
PVD757
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:13 pm

Pretty neat that PVD was cited as an airport example!
Not sure of the seat capacity or range of the CS300 but there are definite route opportunities from PVD like:
Dallas
Houston
Minneapolis
Saint Louis
Kansas City
Jacksonville
Norfolk
West Palm Beach
Buffalo
Milwaukee
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Indianapolis
Columbus
Bahamas
Bermuda

Especially if it is a good product at a low price.
 
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ua900
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:54 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Well that’s one way Bombardier could’ve secured a decent NA order for the C Series that I would’ve never predicted ;)


Indeed, Air Baltic's success against FR and WW must have impressed him.

enilria wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
The biggest question mark I see here isn't the use of smaller airports, but rather the lack of connecting flights. The cost of providing them has gone down considerably over the years and it will be tough to fill the planes without that, especially if they want to get more than the leisure traveler going to Orlando or Vegas.

Allegiant is in trouble if this gets launched. You guys ever figure out where Andrew Levy went?


Agreed, and Andrew continues to list himself as UA EVP & CFO, going strong, almost at his 2 year anniversary with the company. Maybe they'll get him a $10 plastic gold watch to commemorate that.

TWA302 wrote:
william wrote:
There is an airline that does that already, its called Allegiant.


Nothing better than some healthy competition! If they do target G4 they better have their ducks in a row.

I wonder how Marriott will take this as Moxy is one of the brands in their hotel property arsenal?


Well, if Andrew Levy joins Moxy somehow, perhaps they can do a marketing agreement. UA gives out Marriott status for 1Ks, so it's been done before and Andrew didn't kill that. If Moxy becomes a true ULCC then Marriott's Moxy will be the perfect natural fit from a brand perspective.
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ckuschel
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:03 am

Come on down to Lakeland. 45 minutes from the Disney parks and minutes from I4 connecting both Orlando and Tampa. I have heard that the folks at Lakeland Linder are trying to get Disney to operate weekend buses from the airport, to their hotels and parks for a potential airline.
 
werdywerd
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:20 am

ilovelamp wrote:
Something inside me thinks Neeleman stalks these A.net boards because this is the perfect wet dream for a lot of posters here. :)

Seriously, I’ll say it again, I have major doubts this is the right time to launch any new carrier unless acquisitions or mergers are in the near future. The next 5-10 years is a major problem for pilot supply. The US is past due for our next economic recession and the C Series wage rates have already been set way above what this new carrier would be able to pay on the open market. Good luck getting the best talent with that in mind.


VX Is gone. B6 Merger with ???? or Acquisition by???? is only a matter of time
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:20 am

ilovelamp wrote:
Something inside me thinks Neeleman stalks these A.net boards because this is the perfect wet dream for a lot of posters here. :)

Seriously, I’ll say it again, I have major doubts this is the right time to launch any new carrier unless acquisitions or mergers are in the near future. The next 5-10 years is a major problem for pilot supply. The US is past due for our next economic recession and the C Series wage rates have already been set way above what this new carrier would be able to pay on the open market. Good luck getting the best talent with that in mind.


I don't think that getting pilots would be a huge issue. It is like the field of dreams if you pay them they will come. He could also set up a cadet program like European airlines do or he could just hire what regionals hire with 1500hrs and an ATP with the ink still wet. I will be completing my training by then and if the choice was a regional or a CSeries operator that pays like a major then the choice would be extremely easy.
 
ilovelamp
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David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:23 am

SierraPacific wrote:
ilovelamp wrote:
Something inside me thinks Neeleman stalks these A.net boards because this is the perfect wet dream for a lot of posters here.

Seriously, I’ll say it again, I have major doubts this is the right time to launch any new carrier unless acquisitions or mergers are in the near future. The next 5-10 years is a major problem for pilot supply. The US is past due for our next economic recession and the C Series wage rates have already been set way above what this new carrier would be able to pay on the open market. Good luck getting the best talent with that in mind.


I don't think that getting pilots would be a huge issue. It is like the field of dreams if you pay them they will come. He could also set up a cadet program like European airlines do or he could just hire what regionals hire with 1500hrs and an ATP with the ink still wet. I will be completing my training by then and if the choice was a regional or a CSeries operator that pays like a major then the choice would be extremely easy.


Don’t sell yourself short. Your skill set will be worth more than this new airline will be able to pay.

And absolutely there will be a supply problems. Why take the risk of going to an unknown quantity when there will be so much movement at the regionals and legacies? This in turn would exponentially increase their training costs with all the turnover.
Last edited by ilovelamp on Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Aliqiout
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:25 am

cheapgreek wrote:
For secondary cities the choice should have been CS100. Better suited for small loads and better off shorter runways.

It would have been, but he hasn't expressed any interest in secondary citites.
 
Indy
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:40 am

alfa164 wrote:
Moxy?


LOL seriously? And coming up next.... Chutzpah Air :-)
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
cvgComair
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:48 am

Indy wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Moxy?


LOL seriously? And coming up next.... Chutzpah Air :-)

JetBlue started off as "NewAir". The name will definitely not be Moxy once is launches operations 8-) .
 
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Jayafe
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:50 am

seansasLCY wrote:
Moxy is already a hotel chain by Marriott. Is this just a project name and it'll be renamed before launch?


Because someone would book a room instead of getting a plane ticket by mistake?
 
CobaltScar
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:51 am

Hmmmm, so he wants to build a B6 in the midwest with cheaper non-unionized zero seniority staff and use the CS300 to do it.

Sounds like a nice cheap and covert way for B6 to grow the mid-west and then (re)absorb them in a few years once Moxie's labor costs go up and they have plucked all the neglected low hanging fruit left.

If B6 goes CS100/300 , then you have their future acquisition partner in this airline, and it would not surprise me one bit if its being planned that way from now.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:51 am

ilovelamp wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
ilovelamp wrote:
Something inside me thinks Neeleman stalks these A.net boards because this is the perfect wet dream for a lot of posters here.

Seriously, I’ll say it again, I have major doubts this is the right time to launch any new carrier unless acquisitions or mergers are in the near future. The next 5-10 years is a major problem for pilot supply. The US is past due for our next economic recession and the C Series wage rates have already been set way above what this new carrier would be able to pay on the open market. Good luck getting the best talent with that in mind.


I don't think that getting pilots would be a huge issue. It is like the field of dreams if you pay them they will come. He could also set up a cadet program like European airlines do or he could just hire what regionals hire with 1500hrs and an ATP with the ink still wet. I will be completing my training by then and if the choice was a regional or a CSeries operator that pays like a major then the choice would be extremely easy.


Don’t sell yourself short. Your skill set will be worth more than this new airline will be able to pay.

And absolutely there will be a supply problems. Why take the risk of going to an unknown quantity when there will be so much movement at the regionals and legacies? This in turn would exponentially increase their training costs with all the turnover.


I do not foresee them competing with the big three for pilots. I see them competing with regionals which I would much rather work for a CSeries operator :lol: . If the big three start hiring wet ATP's, It will be an awesome time for everyone and I am hoping that comes true.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:54 am

"Moxy" definitely is the name of the project rather than the airline, kind of like how JetBlue was called "New Air" for a little while.

I wish David Neeleman the best and I hope this succeeds, he already has a track record with Morris Air, WestJet, JetBlue, and Azul, so I hope this will become another success.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
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enilria
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:14 am

LockheedBBD wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Wow, David Neeleman, born in Sao Paulo, Brazil. The same guy that ordered a bunch of Embraer 190/195s (at JetBlue and at Azul). To say the least, he must have an in-depth knowledge of the E195E2 performance.

And he ended up picking the CS300 as the best aircraft for the job... :stirthepot:



Or Bombardier (or Republic Airways) gave him a deal too good to refuse. :lol:

There's a long history of manufacturers helping new airlines get off the ground with financing and seed money. I'm certain that is why the C Series.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:44 am

This is HUGE for the C-series. 30 top off from Air Baltic and now 60 from Moxie...
The year has been saved before Farnborough.

Neeleman's track record has been good. He has a habit of finding opportunities the rest of us miss.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Wow, David Neeleman, born in Sao Paulo, Brazil. The same guy that ordered a bunch of Embraer 190/195s (at JetBlue and at Azul). To say the least, he must have an in-depth knowledge of the E195E2 performance.

And he ended up picking the CS300 as the best aircraft for the job... :stirthepot:
flyPIT wrote:
Looks like Robert Milton (former CEO of Air Canada and Chairman of United) and Henri Courpron (former ILFC CEO) are also on board.
https://newsroom.aviator.aero/david-neeleman-to-launch-moxy-airways-a-new-us-based-lcc/


This has me really curious about the real world difference in performance. Neeleman has bought wise in the past. He knows 737s from Westjet, A320s & E190s from JetBlue and Azul. So the C-series (or is it A230) implies longer flights than Allegiant and Spirit?

atcsundevil wrote:
This, and the fact that Bombardier is still trying to get take the CSeries mainstream (now with a little help from Airbus). A sizable order like this brings them another step closer, particularly with it being another major order in the US. They know that he provided a crucial order for the E190 to get the E-Jet program off the ground while he was at JetBlue, and a large CS300 order that could potentially lead to significant future orders means that Bombardier is likely happy to offer some great terms. The CSeries from a technical standpoint is as good as it gets among small narrowbodies, so it's hard to say he'd be making a bad decision by choosing them over the E2. Now with the Airbus partnership, it means the CSeries is directly linked to the manufacturer that he's had a close relationship with for two decades.

The crucial order bit might have changed everything in securing a great deal. By working with Airbus, Neeleman knows the issues will be addressed. This is great news for the C-series and a missed opportunity for the E2-195. Oh how I wish I new the terms...

ua900 wrote:
Indeed, Air Baltic's success against FR and WW must have impressed him.

I'm sure the details of Air Baltic's experience *and* the E2-190 EIS was consulted.
The advantage for Moxie ("New Air2") is that the CS300 is being broken in by others. This won't be the E-190 where JetBlue is finding all the aging issues with the plane.

ilovelamp wrote:
And where do they plan on getting pilots? With all of the movement the legacy and majors will be seeing in the next 10 years, I doubt many pilots, even those at a regional or other LCCs, will take the risk to work there.

That won't be an issue. Raid the regionals. If the pay is good, why not? At worst you work a few years at much higher pay while building the experience. At Best you are a Captain within 2 or 3 years and have a career in the Left seat. I realize the majors are getting better, but I still hear Legacy pilots complain on hotel shuttles how their friends at the little airlines are already Captains getting paid more when they are a copilot. PIlots will just become more difficult for small airlines. Eventually the ATP rule will be modified. Or it won't and airlines will keep having to bump pay.

You do realize many of the small airlines have no issue hiring pilots? JetBlue, Spirit, and Frontier.
AA: 14,000 pilots, about 650 retirees a year (or ~ 10 years to Captain)
DL: 14,600 pilots, a few more retirees a year (about the same 10 years to Captain)
UA: 12,500 pilots, about 500 retirees a year. (Or about 12 years to Captain).

What it means is airlines with the worst wages for junior pilots will have a tougher time acquiring pilots. They RJs pay $65 to $115 per hour.
Majors seems to start at $55, but I'm betting that goes up with Captains getting > $220/hr.

Some pilots will try for a major.

VS11 wrote:
Maybe Sir Richard Branson will team up with him this time. Branson passed on being part of JetBlue and regretted it so after the VX acquisition, this might be a good opportunity for the two of them to join forces - they have similar visions .

Branson's business model is rent control of the Virgin name. Neeleman doesn't need to buy a name to raise funding. I actually think that because of the way Branson used to sell airlines with Bikini babes he is more baggage than worth. And by track record:

MaverickM11 wrote:
*Looks at Branson's airline record*....why?

Yea.. are any of his airlines healthy? Neeleman's all seem to be thriving...


Lightsaber
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cheapgreek
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:02 am

Aliqiout wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
For secondary cities the choice should have been CS100. Better suited for small loads and better off shorter runways.

It would have been, but he hasn't expressed any interest in secondary citites.


"According to trade publication Airline Weekly, Neeleman is looking to form a low-cost service called Moxy Airlines. The company is expected to officially commence in 2020, and will be aimed at smaller secondary airports, such as New York Stewart International Airport."
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