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digitalman12
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:53 am

what if he built up San Marcos as a new Austin-San Antonio hub airport?
 
JDawgboy512
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:42 pm

digitalman12 wrote:
what if he built up San Marcos as a new Austin-San Antonio hub airport?



Not gonna happen. Delta has plans for AUS plus our port is conveniently located near DT with plenty of room to grow. It would also be wildly unpopular in Austin.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:21 pm

atcsundevil wrote: "I would actually argue that consolidation leads to significant gaps in the market. All three legacies have entrenched themselves at their hubs, and even though they've got large fleets and a lot of resources, I don't think they'd try too hard to fight off a small fish. Even if they did, Neeleman has some experience with fending off competition. Delta started Song purely to defend the lucrative snowbird routes, and lost an absolute ton of money in the process."

It seems to me that this is the key point. Neeleman exploited a gap in the market created by the late 1980's-early 90's consolidation, at a well-located, underused airport (as JFK was at that time). Most people who attempt a large startup, I'd be very skeptical, because of the difficulty establishing oneself against the marketing tools of legacies. But Neeleman's track record and the fact that he raised such a large sum now, clearly means there are financial people who see this project as viable. People want to get places for reasonable prices, and consolidation has limited that ability. If anyone can get a new LCC/ ULCC off the ground, and fill a niche, it's Neeleman.

I'm a little surprised about no connections, I wonder if that's something that may come later. And good to see more C-Series orders. The C-Series is the new cost standard for 100-130 seats, the 737 / A320-series for 130-plus to 200. I'd guess everybody involved, passengers, employees, investors, will be winners with this venture.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
nmdrdh787
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:13 pm

freakyrat wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:
G4 is missing a large chunk of the market that they are looking at but dragging their feet on. International. Moxy could come in and kick G4's butt for Carribean/Latin American point to point. The money is there.


We have a nice US Customs facility at SBN and are working on twice weekly flights to Cancun but Allegiant isn't ready for those yet. The money is there. According to statistical data 15,000 trips a year are made to Cancun from MIchiana.

I checked on the distance and it's only 1238 NM between both airports, well within the range of the CS300.


Exactly. Add a partnership with vacation package companies and its a recipe for success. I believe alot of the trips out there are also ones that A) Go through another hub B) Originate from another destination (after a drive) C) are demand that is not officially tracked but out there (see the airports that WIzz basically created demand from in Europe, something like that)
 
BOSman
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:45 pm

Reading some of the articles, possible destinations include PVD, SFB, PIE, OAK, SJC, CCR (Contra Costa, CA), SNA, BUR, ONT, CLD (Palomar, CA), AZA, BJC (Rocky Mountain Airport, CO), USA (Concord, NC), FTW, BKL (Burke-Lakefront, Cleveland, OH), BWI, TTN, SWF, ISP, GYY, and MKE. I don't know whether they were mentioned in the Airline Weekly article or not.

One thing I've always thought an airline like this should do is partner with local transportation authorities to allow passengers to book commuter rail tickets alongside their flight. A lot of secondary airports are close to if not along a commuter rail or rapid transit line. Of the airports above, PVD, BWI, GYY, and BUR have their own commuter rail stops, OAK is on BART, and both MKE and BWI (and maybe soon PVD) are served by Amtrak.

One idea I've had is that a passenger booking a flight from Boston to Chicago would not only see PVD and GYY as options, but "Downtown Boston" and "Downtown Chicago" as options as well. If they choose the downtown options, the website will still make it clear that the trip involves the trains and the boarding pass will include a receipt to show the conductors on the trains (Moxy would purchase the tickets from both the MBTA and the South Shore Line). This will allow them to take the MBTA commuter rail from Boston South Station to PVD, fly into GYY, and take the South Shore Line to Chicago Millennium Station all in one go. The only problem I can think of is that with some airports they will need a shuttle- TTN to the West Trenton SEPTA station for example. Would Moxy take care of all the logistics of that or would the airport? Either way it's one way to serve the city they purport to serve and still avoid the main airports.
 
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mercure1
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:28 pm

You guys ever figure out where Andrew Levy went?
Moxy?
mercure f-wtcc
 
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enilria
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Neeleman's Moxie "Tentatively" Orders 60 A220s for 2021 Start

Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:12 pm

Moxie inches forward...

Delivery of the twinjets for the start-up will commence in 2021, Airbus has disclosed during the Farnborough air show.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 0s-450374/
 
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zkojq
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Re: Neeleman's Moxie "Tentatively" Orders 60 A220s for 2021 Start

Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:19 pm

Will be very interesting to see how this progresses. Neelman is a smart bloke. Congrats to Airbus/Bombardier. Hope 'Moxie' is successful.
First to fly the 787-9
 
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janders
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:31 pm

Sounds like MOU/LOI

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 0s-450374/

Deliveries commencing in 2021.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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neomax
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:40 pm

Interesting. Watch this space.
 
runningonempty
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Re: Neeleman's Moxie "Tentatively" Orders 60 A220s for 2021 Start

Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:14 pm

There's some irony in that it is the same quantity that B6 ordered just last week...
 
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LAXintl
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Interview with Neeleman. Gives a bit more insight to his thinking with new venture.


Neeleman said he would use the plane’s long range and comfortable cabin to break into a U.S. market dominated by only four major airlines.

“These guys have not been growing for a long time,” he said in a telephone interview from the Farnborough air show outside London. “A lot of communities are underserved and fares are really high. There are pockets of pain everywhere. Globally, fuel is up but I have a very fuel-efficient airplane.”

Neeleman said the A220 would help his new airline focus on “passenger service and satisfaction.” He also praised its long range, which will potentially enable the carrier to establish flight links with other carriers he backs, Brazil’s Azul SA and Portugal’s TAP.
“The A220 gives us a ton of flexibility to be able to go long haul,” he said. “It’s really a difference of range -- the ability of the plane to go super long distances or short flights.”

A small team is working on the U.S. airline project and plans to apply for certification by the Federal Aviation Administration in the next 14 to 18 months, Neeleman said. The new airline “could be an ultra low-cost carrier or an ultra long haul with lie-flat business class,” he said. The company’s final name and service offerings haven’t been determined, he said.

“I’m not going to run the airline,” Neeleman said. “I’ll be a strategic director, but day to day, I’ve got a team of people who will run it. I like being executive chairman and being able to help make decisions and let my team run the airline.”



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ue-founder

=

Frankly sounds like he is still quite a bit away firming up business plans with ideas all over the plance - short haul, longhaul, LCC, premium, etc
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:32 pm

digitalman12 wrote:
what if he built up San Marcos as a new Austin-San Antonio hub airport?


Why does Austin need a new airport in San Marcos when they have a perfectly good airport located at the former Bergstrom AFB?
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:36 pm

JDawgboy512 wrote:
digitalman12 wrote:
what if he built up San Marcos as a new Austin-San Antonio hub airport?



Not gonna happen. Delta has plans for AUS plus our port is conveniently located near DT with plenty of room to grow. It would also be wildly unpopular in Austin.


If San Antonio and San Marcos wanted to go in on a new airport, that's one thing. There's no way Austin taxpayers and Austin politicians would be interested in paying for an airport to complete with AUS.

Anyway, why would San Marcos want a new airport when they have their pick of either SAT or AUS now? AUS is not that far away and is accessible from I-35 or the SH-45 and SH-130 toll roads.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:10 pm

BOSman wrote:
Reading some of the articles, possible destinations include PVD, SFB, PIE, OAK, SJC, CCR (Contra Costa, CA), SNA, BUR, ONT, CLD (Palomar, CA), AZA, BJC (Rocky Mountain Airport, CO), USA (Concord, NC), FTW, BKL (Burke-Lakefront, Cleveland, OH), BWI, TTN, SWF, ISP, GYY, and MKE. I don't know whether they were mentioned in the Airline Weekly article or not.

One thing I've always thought an airline like this should do is partner with local transportation authorities to allow passengers to book commuter rail tickets alongside their flight. A lot of secondary airports are close to if not along a commuter rail or rapid transit line. Of the airports above, PVD, BWI, GYY, and BUR have their own commuter rail stops, OAK is on BART, and both MKE and BWI (and maybe soon PVD) are served by Amtrak.

One idea I've had is that a passenger booking a flight from Boston to Chicago would not only see PVD and GYY as options, but "Downtown Boston" and "Downtown Chicago" as options as well. If they choose the downtown options, the website will still make it clear that the trip involves the trains and the boarding pass will include a receipt to show the conductors on the trains (Moxy would purchase the tickets from both the MBTA and the South Shore Line). This will allow them to take the MBTA commuter rail from Boston South Station to PVD, fly into GYY, and take the South Shore Line to Chicago Millennium Station all in one go. The only problem I can think of is that with some airports they will need a shuttle- TTN to the West Trenton SEPTA station for example. Would Moxy take care of all the logistics of that or would the airport? Either way it's one way to serve the city they purport to serve and still avoid the main airports.

As someone whose home airport is now MKE, I LOVE this idea! A version of this is already done around the world. Heck, you can even check in for your flight and check any bags at the train stations in many cases. The MKE airport Amtrak station isn't physically attached to the air terminal, but it has ample parking and frequent shuttle vans to the terminal. Closer to the terminal than many remote car rental facilities these days.
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gatibosgru
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:13 pm

Interesting idea. Could an A220 each LIS from PVD for example?
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trpmb6
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:25 pm

Would love to see routes out of ICT servicing some of the routes that Delta and United hold market shares on. Southwest has done a good job of keeping them at bay on some routes but we need a plane like the A220 to compete with these other routes that can't support 737 numbers.

Will Moxy be picking up other aircraft to supplement routes? surely not going to rely solely on this order of A220..

Edit: Well Neeleman mentions the fuel efficiency of the A220 as a main business case so maybe it will just be A220's
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:38 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Would love to see routes out of ICT servicing some of the routes that Delta and United hold market shares on. Southwest has done a good job of keeping them at bay on some routes but we need a plane like the A220 to compete with these other routes that can't support 737 numbers.

Will Moxy be picking up other aircraft to supplement routes? surely not going to rely solely on this order of A220..

Edit: Well Neeleman mentions the fuel efficiency of the A220 as a main business case so maybe it will just be A220's


When he can’t even articulate a clear vision yet, I think it’s too early to know anything about the future of “Moxy”.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
ridgid727
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:44 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Would love to see routes out of ICT servicing some of the routes that Delta and United hold market shares on. Southwest has done a good job of keeping them at bay on some routes but we need a plane like the A220 to compete with these other routes that can't support 737 numbers.

Will Moxy be picking up other aircraft to supplement routes? surely not going to rely solely on this order of A220..

Edit: Well Neeleman mentions the fuel efficiency of the A220 as a main business case so maybe it will just be A220's


When he can’t even articulate a clear vision yet, I think it’s too early to know anything about the future of “Moxy”.


If you have ever been to one of his speeches to College Business Departments, he many times talks about some of the best information to put out there is misinformation that leaves on hanging. Believe me he and his staff have targets. David is very clever.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:56 pm

ridgid727 wrote:

If you have ever been to one of his speeches to College Business Departments, he many times talks about some of the best information to put out there is misinformation that leaves on hanging. Believe me he and his staff have targets. David is very clever.


A strategy that many in the industry no doubt use.

Anybody who says Airbus has truly shelved the A321 re-wing is only falling for the hook line and sinker. It's on the table and ready to be thrown in the spotlight if it should be the appropriate response to whatever Boeing puts forth.
 
WN732
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:15 pm

freakyrat wrote:
Suggested Hubs: TEB, HPN, MMU or SWF for the New York Area. KPU for Atlanta. MCI or MKC for the Midwest, AUS or SAT for the Southwest, ONT for the Los Angelas area and OAK for the San Francisco area. COS for the Denver area. Not sure fr the Seattle area. MDW and ORD are to congested. I would look to RFD for Chicago.


I can agree with some of these, but for whatever reason COS just does not work for anyone long term.
 
nmdrdh787
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:29 pm

mercure1 wrote:
You guys ever figure out where Andrew Levy went?
Moxy?


I thought he was at United still (I saw him one day in May), until I saw an article saying he left just now. His Linkedin is listed as "Investor".

Now I am really curious.
 
Planeflyer
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:49 pm

How about Carlsbad in north county San Diego director to east coast and up and down the west coast?

Isn’t this what the C series can do
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:56 pm

ridgid727 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Would love to see routes out of ICT servicing some of the routes that Delta and United hold market shares on. Southwest has done a good job of keeping them at bay on some routes but we need a plane like the A220 to compete with these other routes that can't support 737 numbers.

Will Moxy be picking up other aircraft to supplement routes? surely not going to rely solely on this order of A220..

Edit: Well Neeleman mentions the fuel efficiency of the A220 as a main business case so maybe it will just be A220's


When he can’t even articulate a clear vision yet, I think it’s too early to know anything about the future of “Moxy”.


If you have ever been to one of his speeches to College Business Departments, he many times talks about some of the best information to put out there is misinformation that leaves on hanging. Believe me he and his staff have targets. David is very clever.


I'm quite certain that he knows what he's doing. He obviously hasn't communicated that to the masses, so no, we can't really surmise if they will be picking up other aircraft. That was what I was replying to.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Planeflyer
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:32 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
ridgid727 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

When he can’t even articulate a clear vision yet, I think it’s too early to know anything about the future of “Moxy”.


If you have ever been to one of his speeches to College Business Departments, he many times talks about some of the best information to put out there is misinformation that leaves on hanging. Believe me he and his staff have targets. David is very clever.


I'm quite certain that he knows what he's doing. He obviously hasn't communicated that to the masses, so no, we can't really surmise if they will be picking up other aircraft. That was what I was replying to.


Agree this fellow has a fantastic track record!

How comfortable will the c series be compared to a 737/320 on a cross country route?
 
flyaustralian12
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:41 am

EGE needs some competition, especially in winter. Fares LAX/EGE seems very high on average especially when you compare LAX/DEN fares. LAX/DEN is very roughly 15% further than LAX/EGE.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:52 am

BOSman wrote:
Reading some of the articles, possible destinations include PVD, SFB, PIE, OAK, SJC, CCR (Contra Costa, CA), SNA, BUR, ONT, CLD (Palomar, CA), AZA, BJC (Rocky Mountain Airport, CO), USA (Concord, NC), FTW, BKL (Burke-Lakefront, Cleveland, OH), BWI, TTN, SWF, ISP, GYY, and MKE. I don't know whether they were mentioned in the Airline Weekly article or not.

One thing I've always thought an airline like this should do is partner with local transportation authorities to allow passengers to book commuter rail tickets alongside their flight. A lot of secondary airports are close to if not along a commuter rail or rapid transit line. Of the airports above, PVD, BWI, GYY, and BUR have their own commuter rail stops, OAK is on BART, and both MKE and BWI (and maybe soon PVD) are served by Amtrak.

One idea I've had is that a passenger booking a flight from Boston to Chicago would not only see PVD and GYY as options, but "Downtown Boston" and "Downtown Chicago" as options as well. If they choose the downtown options, the website will still make it clear that the trip involves the trains and the boarding pass will include a receipt to show the conductors on the trains (Moxy would purchase the tickets from both the MBTA and the South Shore Line). This will allow them to take the MBTA commuter rail from Boston South Station to PVD, fly into GYY, and take the South Shore Line to Chicago Millennium Station all in one go. The only problem I can think of is that with some airports they will need a shuttle- TTN to the West Trenton SEPTA station for example. Would Moxy take care of all the logistics of that or would the airport? Either way it's one way to serve the city they purport to serve and still avoid the main airports.

I know Continental placed codeshare flight numbers (or had some other scheme in place) on Amtrak in the Northeast Corridor, Moxy could do something like that.
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9252fly
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:55 am

Planeflyer wrote:

How comfortable will the c series be compared to a 737/320 on a cross country route?


Let's just say that you wouldn't need to avoid the one middle seat per row on a A220, maybe the best seat to some. Nice large windows positioned at an ideal height. Chances are it will rate highly like the often noted E175 which is preferred over the B737 and to a lesser degree the A320.
 
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Re: Neeleman's Moxie "Tentatively" Orders 60 A220s for 2021 Start

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:26 am

runningonempty wrote:
There's some irony in that it is the same quantity that B6 ordered just last week...


He never fully gave up his roots in B6 either. Just last year, Neeleman's AD began codesharing with B6, and of course, the other airline he has significant involvement in, TP, also gets significant B6 feed. Something tells me that this is being done with the idea of selling to B6 and expanding it.

As for the A220, it is designed for 5 abreast with an 18.2" wide seat. Delta plans to go 31"/18.2" on its A221s. I suspect B6 will be going 32"/18" and I could see the Moxy concept doing the same.
 
Planeflyer
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:58 am

Sounds like there will be some nice travel opportunities.
 
flyaustralian12
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:13 am

sounds like a winner. How do we invest ?
 
9252fly
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:21 am

I was wondering if anyone has the current total orders for the A220 / CSeries to date. I'm thinking that it's getting close to 500?
 
rubiohiguey
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:12 pm

Cooperation planned between Moxy, Azul and TAP
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nd-450396/
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:35 pm

rubiohiguey wrote:
Cooperation planned between Moxy, Azul and TAP
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nd-450396/


All, ironically, also hang out with JetBlue.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
tphuang
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:51 pm

interesting article here from Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -s-startup
I'd admit I'm a bit of a Neeleman fanboy, but still not sure how this is going to work out.
Especially this last part.
“I would be surprised if we have a single route at Moxy that has a single nonstop competitor.”
 
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lightsaber
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:10 pm

tphuang wrote:
interesting article here from Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -s-startup
I'd admit I'm a bit of a Neeleman fanboy, but still not sure how this is going to work out.
Especially this last part.
“I would be surprised if we have a single route at Moxy that has a single nonstop competitor.”

That is a common ULCC strategy. G4 works to keep a bulk of flights competition free. This requires less than daily flights and to meet demand growth as it happens (as well as scale down with seasonality). This is tough with new aircraft (G4-Allegiant parks aircraft in September and has very reduced Tuesday/Wednesday flying).

I'm trying to figure out Neeleman's strategy differentiator. No competition constrains growth...

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VS4ever
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:10 pm

tphuang wrote:
interesting article here from Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -s-startup
I'd admit I'm a bit of a Neeleman fanboy, but still not sure how this is going to work out.
Especially this last part.
“I would be surprised if we have a single route at Moxy that has a single nonstop competitor.”


Yes that statement, certainly raises some eyebrows, it might well be true (mis-information aside from earlier comments in this thread), but sure as hell won't be for long as I am sure DL/UA and AA will be thinking about how to counteract that when it comes (notice when, not if).

Other folks' comments about an endgame with B6 is also an interesting one. Despite the rhetoric, the aim is almost certainly, get in, build the business and get out. Even if you talk about comfort, different airport strategies, it all comes down to money. It's how you get out is the key, do you get bought, a la VX or do you go IPO, float it and then see where it goes from there. If I was B6, this would be an easy capacity growth piece for them to buy. All of a sudden you end up with 60 of a type you are already into? Sure types don't matter in M&A, dear goodness we've flogged that issue to death a myriad of times. But it definitely to me looks like an interesting play. You don't dive into this game without a plan and Neeleman as we know is one of the best at it. So somewhere in the confines of the investment documents etc, there will be a growth path. Achieve economies of scale and the angel investors will want their cash back to go do something else instead. Whether it's B6 or someone else, who knows, I can't wait to see how this shakes out, it's about time we had some fun back into the market,
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enilria
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:16 pm

lightsaber wrote:
tphuang wrote:
interesting article here from Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -s-startup
I'd admit I'm a bit of a Neeleman fanboy, but still not sure how this is going to work out.
Especially this last part.
“I would be surprised if we have a single route at Moxy that has a single nonstop competitor.”

That is a common ULCC strategy. G4 works to keep a bulk of flights competition free. This requires less than daily flights and to meet demand growth as it happens (as well as scale down with seasonality). This is tough with new aircraft (G4-Allegiant parks aircraft in September and has very reduced Tuesday/Wednesday flying).

I'm trying to figure out Neeleman's strategy differentiator. No competition constrains growth...

Lightsaber

Lightsaber

Does that mean ACT-LAS and MKL-MCO, or does it mean LAL-HSV/CLT? I'm not sure which is better/worse. They could go full on nutty and do MKL-LAL!
 
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neomax
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:49 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
rubiohiguey wrote:
Cooperation planned between Moxy, Azul and TAP
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nd-450396/


All, ironically, also hang out with JetBlue.


What’s so ironic about it? All of them have Neelman as the common denominator so hardly a surprise.

ridgid727 wrote:
If you have ever been to one of his speeches to College Business Departments, he many times talks about some of the best information to put out there is misinformation that leaves on hanging. Believe me he and his staff have targets. David is very clever.


Damn, that is clever
 
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UPlog
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:31 am

Quite ambitious statement in article. Not sure so many small p2p really exist or can beat the pricing strength of hubs.


The airline will emphasize direct flights that bypass major airport hubs dominated by larger carriers. About 800 possible city pairs are under consideration, including international destinations, Neeleman said.

“The mantra will be let’s try to get people there twice as fast with fares 30 to 50 percent lower than they’re paying today,” he said. “I would be surprised if we have a single route at Moxy that has a single nonstop competitor.”
 
CobaltScar
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:16 am

It will also be a company making a profit for a few years with a crop of zero seniority/bottom of the pay scale new hires in a industry where time based seniority is everything. And when the labor costs inevitably go up with time, he will sell. (speed up this timeline 2x if the pilots/FAs unionize unexpectedly early). Basically the airline version of outsourcing, but instead of bringing in cheap labor from abroad, he is bringing in a new airline certificate to wave in front of employees face.

I can already hear the following lines all over again: "we are a baby airline just staring out" and "lets all pitch in and sacrifice because we are new" and the classic "its our culture here at jetblu---errr I mean moxy to clean the planes ourselves and work longer for less pay then others".

This is how they will be low cost, the rest of the talk about tech is PR.
 
airbazar
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:30 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
It will also be a company making a profit for a few years with a crop of zero seniority/bottom of the pay scale new hires in a industry where time based seniority is everything.

Time based seniority and other old fashioned business processes is what's hurting the legacies. Adapt and survive is the name of the game. Human interactions in the airline business have become one of the least pleasant parts of any trip. Public transportation will take a huge step forward when driverless cars become common. I wish I'd still be alive to witness pilotless and FAless airplanes.
I want to buy my ticket, checkin at a kiosk or online, board a plane and take my seat, then get off at the other end and never have to talk to airline employee harassing me at every turn.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:36 pm

airbazar wrote:
I wish I'd still be alive to witness pilotless and FAless airplanes.
I want to buy my ticket, checkin at a kiosk or online, board a plane and take my seat, then get off at the other end and never have to talk to airline employee harassing me at every turn.


Sure I want to be alive during all that too. Just make sure you vote for government provided universal income so all the people replaced by robots can retire young. Or not, and just wait for the next revolution to sort things out.

Race to the bottom globalism makes me sigh deeply.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:14 pm

cvgComair wrote:
I am interested to see how "secondary" secondary is. Basically the entire midwest is lacking this JetBlue-type service. I would think markets without JetBlue service including IND/CVG/CMH/STL/MCI/MEM would be perfect for this airline. Given the PTP structure similar to Allegiant, I think they could be very competitive in markets dominated by G4 if they are offering more amenities like WiFi/bigger seats/etc.


"Would avoid IND, CVG, CMH and MCI to start. All of those airports are sufficiently served - why stir up WN, DL and AA?"

They should dust off the old PI playbook and review the old US DAY hub.....then replicate that hub at SDF. (SDF is a growing city with business and leisure/tourism; under-served by current carriers and no real dominant presence by any of the carriers; geographically better situated than any other viable candidate; would need to add gates as extensions on existing concourses. Northern points: GRR, FNT, MBS, AZO, TOL, CAK, DAY, BUF, ROC, SYR, FWA, SBN. Southern points: TYS, CHA, MEM, HVL, AVL, GSO, BHM, TRI, CHS, CAE, GVL. Eastern points: RIC, ORF, CRW. Midwestern points: PEO, DES, OMA. Trunk routes to NYC/BOS/DC/FL/TX/West Coast. A220 is the perfect aircraft to run this operation and it would likely be more profitable than the play at DAY in the 80's (which was profitable)"
 
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UPlog
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:31 am

Interview with Neeleman.

Seems he will definitely look at flying overseas especially Brazil to link up with Azul.

https://skift.com/2018/10/26/jetblue-fo ... l-airline/
 
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janders
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:09 am

Talk about big ego..

“I could call this airline crap and people will love it because of the way I’m going to treat them,” Neeleman said.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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N776AU
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:06 am

Unfortunately, I doubt living around ATL I will even sniff this new airline (but I can hope I guess).

Neeleman said “I don’t think people want to stand in line to talk to someone.”

I am unlike most people as an introvert, but this line is spot on for me. I don't mind the waiting element. I can be patient, but if I can take care of something without having to interact with another human that will be my first choice every time. We've shifted that direction with online booking and forward to digital boarding passes, and man is it ever easy. I'm all for keeping that trend up.
Careful, doors are closing, and will not reopen. Please wait for the next train.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:46 am

janders wrote:
Talk about big ego..

“I could call this airline crap and people will love it because of the way I’m going to treat them,” Neeleman said.


Well to be fair he's correct. B6 under Neeleman, while maybe not the most fantastically run, was doing very good and employees loved working there. It slid a bit under Barger but still remained strong. Then the British cuck took over and we have the dumpster fire we have now.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
MaverickM11
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Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:47 am

UPlog wrote:
Interview with Neeleman.

Seems he will definitely look at flying overseas especially Brazil to link up with Azul.

https://skift.com/2018/10/26/jetblue-fo ... l-airline/

This whole interview is bonkers. 11 hours on a A220? AVP to Brazil? Flying twice as fast for half the price? Either Neeleman has lost it or he's pulling someone's leg.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4234
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: David Neeleman Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline

Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:34 am

Based on Neelmans track record..... I am confident this airline will succeed. Good for him! Someone mentioned he has ADHD, because he starts something and moves on to starting another. Good for him! Life is short, and he is making his mark on the industry.

And!!!! The 220 once again is gonna score. I have been a fan boy for a long time, and it makes me giddy to see the program gaining traction!
I Am A Different Animal!!
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