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WPvsMW
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:19 pm

Moxy... as Amazon Air Pax. IAD as a hub. Independence Air done right.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:24 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Neeleman is wading into a very different industry than 20 years ago. He's seems to want to recreate the B6 business model with some differences but how much "cheap chic" can survive? It didn't do well for Virgin America. From press releases he seems to want to have an airline that appeals to the broad traveler, Mint like seats in the front Spirit like seats in the very back of the plane. Doug Parker has attempted that kind of product offering at AA (Wal Mart and Neiman Marcus under one roof) and it's not worked out as well as thought.

He probably has some serious money behind him but setting Moxie aside from the ULCCs and US4 competition isn't going to be easy. B6 had the advantage starting at a vastly under utilized airport in the largest metro area of the country. There's no such airport like that now. Go to a large airport and the competition will trounce you. Go to small underutilized airports will anyone notice or care?


I would be synical if it was anyone else, but Neeleman is the Michael Jordan of the startup airline industry. Neeleman is the Babe Ruth of being successful. While the speculation is deep regarding this venture, I am certain Neeleman and his people know very well what they are going to do, and know what they do will be very successful. I am really excited to see what happens.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:27 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The more I think about Moxie, the more I think it will succeed. The current airline apps I use (DL, Jet Blue) aren't very useful compared to what I see (yes, I'm an adult who plays games, either emulate the better ones or get out of the way).

WeatherPilot wrote:
From Bloomberg, GE Capital Aviation Services to supply first nine airplanes to Moxy.

Also from the article they revealed Neeleman plans to base Moxy near a tech center that is not Silicon Valley. My guess is going to be RDU or GSO. Although IAD does have the capacity and they have a rail link to the city now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomb ... -s-airline



I think he is lining up the needed services correctly.

To the poster above who thinks a.net is too bullish, you do realize that while JetBlue trades at a low multiple, they are a well liked airline? Neeleman has a history of success. I look at the ULCC segment and see airlines whose customers dislike the affordable means of travel. If an ULCC can come out that appeals to educated consumers, why wouldn't it do well? Just make it more clear what you are buying! Make it easy to plus up at purchase (bags, carryons, rental car, hotel, and BoB). Spirit, Allegiant, and Frontier do not have loyal customers, so I see a huge market opening.

I like JetBlue, but they need to get cost per unit down (sadly, that means more seats as well as A321s).

If they fly when and where I want, I will certainly try them.
Then again, I see a HUGE opportunity for both the A220 and E2-195 (but not -190 due to pilot cost per unit) to open up North American travel. For example, I see UA just opened COS to LAX on a CRJ. Anecdotal evidence is demand is for more seats per day (a relative flies this route routinely). I see routes like that opened up by Moxie. Maybe not that one, but something similar.

Actually, I bet they stick to Texas and Eastward for their first few years, but that is just my hunch.

Lightsaber


I remember when JetBlue was launched. I was certain it wouldn't last 2 years. Especially when 9/11 hit. I was offered a job with them, and got the offer on 9/12! I declined the offer. The recruiter was telling me they would get me on one of the first flights as soon as the airspace was opened again. Sadly, I wish I had jumped on the opportunity to work there. But, I just thought the odds of their survival was zero.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
tphuang
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:20 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The more I think about Moxie, the more I think it will succeed. The current airline apps I use (DL, Jet Blue) aren't very useful compared to what I see (yes, I'm an adult who plays games, either emulate the better ones or get out of the way).

WeatherPilot wrote:
From Bloomberg, GE Capital Aviation Services to supply first nine airplanes to Moxy.

Also from the article they revealed Neeleman plans to base Moxy near a tech center that is not Silicon Valley. My guess is going to be RDU or GSO. Although IAD does have the capacity and they have a rail link to the city now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomb ... -s-airline



I think he is lining up the needed services correctly.

To the poster above who thinks a.net is too bullish, you do realize that while JetBlue trades at a low multiple, they are a well liked airline? Neeleman has a history of success. I look at the ULCC segment and see airlines whose customers dislike the affordable means of travel. If an ULCC can come out that appeals to educated consumers, why wouldn't it do well? Just make it more clear what you are buying! Make it easy to plus up at purchase (bags, carryons, rental car, hotel, and BoB). Spirit, Allegiant, and Frontier do not have loyal customers, so I see a huge market opening.

I like JetBlue, but they need to get cost per unit down (sadly, that means more seats as well as A321s).

If they fly when and where I want, I will certainly try them.
Then again, I see a HUGE opportunity for both the A220 and E2-195 (but not -190 due to pilot cost per unit) to open up North American travel. For example, I see UA just opened COS to LAX on a CRJ. Anecdotal evidence is demand is for more seats per day (a relative flies this route routinely). I see routes like that opened up by Moxie. Maybe not that one, but something similar.

Actually, I bet they stick to Texas and Eastward for their first few years, but that is just my hunch.

Lightsaber


I really wish they stick to the middle of the country airports that are underserved and ignored rather than the sexy airports like aus or sjc that everyone and their mother want to join the party. I think those are the best opportunities left.
 
T4thH
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Re: GE to finance first 9 Moxie aircraft

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:19 pm

EBT wrote:
GECAS actually finances a wide range of aircraft with non-GE engines nowadays, including a healthy amount of IAE-powered A320 family aircraft. Sure, they support their own product, but first and foremost they act as a bank taking bets on which aircraft they think have a long-term future in the market and will generate acceptable returns. Clearly, the A220 is now in that frame, so it makes sense for them to buy some.


Sorry, but this is not correct. GECAS does not buy and lease any aircrafts without GE engines. There are only few recent exceptions, few A350 and also some ATR and Q400, but for the ATR and Q400, GE has a cooperation with the engine producers.

Something different is the lease-back part, so the sell and lease back of jets by airlines. They regullar also release other non GE jets.

OK, the annswer is little bit late but iit is important to correct an incorrect statement.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: GE to finance first 9 Moxie aircraft

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:41 pm

T4thH wrote:
EBT wrote:
GECAS actually finances a wide range of aircraft with non-GE engines nowadays, including a healthy amount of IAE-powered A320 family aircraft. Sure, they support their own product, but first and foremost they act as a bank taking bets on which aircraft they think have a long-term future in the market and will generate acceptable returns. Clearly, the A220 is now in that frame, so it makes sense for them to buy some.


Sorry, but this is not correct. GECAS does not buy and lease any aircrafts without GE engines. There are only few recent exceptions, few A350 and also some ATR and Q400, but for the ATR and Q400, GE has a cooperation with the engine producers.

Something different is the lease-back part, so the sell and lease back of jets by airlines. They regullar also release other non GE jets.

OK, the annswer is little bit late but iit is important to correct an incorrect statement.

Then why do they now advertise IAE and RR in the portfolio?

https://www.gecapital.com/sites/default ... e_2017.pdf

I think, like Pratt did with the CFM-56, that ignoring servicing popular products made it to easy for competitors to win lucrative deals. On the A330, they must lease T700s to be competitive. To get an in, they must have looked at the business case of the V2500 and decided they couldn't ignore the market.

If GECAS wants a part of the next generation of small narrowbodies, they must work with Pratt or forfeit contacts in that market. So more exceptions coming.

Lightsaber
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SocalApproach
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Re: GE to finance first 9 Moxie aircraft

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:48 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I found this facinating that GE will help finance Pratt powered aircraft.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... -s-airline

I haven't heard much about Moxie, so the fact they will start hiring is fascinating (late 2019).

Lightsaber


Ill be sending in my resume whenever they start :bouncy: It's 2019 so I assume they get a website up to accept applications over using online classifieds i.e craigslist
 
WPvsMW
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Re: GE to finance first 9 Moxie aircraft

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:55 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I haven't heard much about Moxie, so the fact they will start hiring is fascinating (late 2019).


It's Moxy (not Moxie). :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moxy_(airline)
 
T4thH
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Re: GE to finance first 9 Moxie aircraft

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:00 pm

lightsaber wrote:
T4thH wrote:
EBT wrote:
GECAS actually finances a wide range of aircraft with non-GE engines nowadays, including a healthy amount of IAE-powered A320 family aircraft. Sure, they support their own product, but first and foremost they act as a bank taking bets on which aircraft they think have a long-term future in the market and will generate acceptable returns. Clearly, the A220 is now in that frame, so it makes sense for them to buy some.


Sorry, but this is not correct. GECAS does not buy and lease any aircrafts without GE engines. There are only few recent exceptions, few A350 and also some ATR and Q400, but for the ATR and Q400, GE has a cooperation with the engine producers.

Something different is the lease-back part, so the sell and lease back of jets by airlines. They regullar also release other non GE jets.

OK, the annswer is little bit late but iit is important to correct an incorrect statement.

Then why do they now advertise IAE and RR in the portfolio?

https://www.gecapital.com/sites/default ... e_2017.pdf

I think, like Pratt did with the CFM-56, that ignoring servicing popular products made it to easy for competitors to win lucrative deals. On the A330, they must lease T700s to be competitive. To get an in, they must have looked at the business case of the V2500 and decided they couldn't ignore the market.

If GECAS wants a part of the next generation of small narrowbodies, they must work with Pratt or forfeit contacts in that market. So more exceptions coming.

Lightsaber


Please note, we are talking about the jets/aircrafts and not jet engines.

GECAS has also an engine pool, so GECAS also buys, leases and lease back only jet engines (so without the jets). These includes RR, PW and so on. This is another part of GECAS.

Still "operating leases" (for new leasing of jets) leases only with few exception, already mentioned above, GE powered jets.

GECAS is a real big company with many diferent subunits.
 
ridgid727
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:45 am

Neeleman already has staff on the ground, and there are 5 people in their Network Planning Department. I do know he has someone from Allegiant heading up much of that, and they have hired a guy who worked at America West who was instrumental in their Nite Flite Program, they also have someone who worked at WestJet. They apparently have an office of some sort set up in a building Neeleman owns in Salt Lake City. They sent 6 people to Toulouse recently.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:28 pm

So Rumors coming out that Richard Branson will likely be investing and teaming up Dave. MOXYby Virgin?
Thoughts? Could it work?

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dabpit
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:20 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
So Rumors coming out that Richard Branson will likely be investing and teaming up Dave. MOXYby Virgin?
Thoughts? Could it work?
Flyguy

It could but doesn't Richard Branson have a non-compete for x number of years with AS (a result of the Virgin America acquisition)?
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jetmatt777
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:49 pm

dabpit wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
So Rumors coming out that Richard Branson will likely be investing and teaming up Dave. MOXYby Virgin?
Thoughts? Could it work?
Flyguy

It could but doesn't Richard Branson have a non-compete for x number of years with AS (a result of the Virgin America acquisition)?


Even if he did, NC’s are notoriously difficult to enforce. Some even include buyout clauses (damages that will be paid in the event of violation). They aren’t iron-clad.
 
klakzky123
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:03 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
dabpit wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
So Rumors coming out that Richard Branson will likely be investing and teaming up Dave. MOXYby Virgin?
Thoughts? Could it work?
Flyguy

It could but doesn't Richard Branson have a non-compete for x number of years with AS (a result of the Virgin America acquisition)?


Even if he did, NC’s are notoriously difficult to enforce. Some even include buyout clauses (damages that will be paid in the event of violation). They aren’t iron-clad.


A lot of states don't enforce them. And given that VX was headquartered in California, my guess is that any non-compete is basically worthless. California more or less doesn't acknowledge or enforce non-compete agreements.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:18 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
dabpit wrote:
It could but doesn't Richard Branson have a non-compete for x number of years with AS (a result of the Virgin America acquisition)?


Even if he did, NC’s are notoriously difficult to enforce. Some even include buyout clauses (damages that will be paid in the event of violation). They aren’t iron-clad.


A lot of states don't enforce them. And given that VX was headquartered in California, my guess is that any non-compete is basically worthless. California more or less doesn't acknowledge or enforce non-compete agreements.


California actually came out against them, we can't have them in our company for sales people in that state for that reason alone.
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planecane
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:46 pm

VS4ever wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

Even if he did, NC’s are notoriously difficult to enforce. Some even include buyout clauses (damages that will be paid in the event of violation). They aren’t iron-clad.


A lot of states don't enforce them. And given that VX was headquartered in California, my guess is that any non-compete is basically worthless. California more or less doesn't acknowledge or enforce non-compete agreements.


California actually came out against them, we can't have them in our company for sales people in that state for that reason alone.

There's a big difference between an employee non-compete and the non-compete for a CEO or large shareholder when a company is sold. The former is a workers rights issue while the latter is far more justifiable.
 
VS11
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:17 pm

dabpit wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
So Rumors coming out that Richard Branson will likely be investing and teaming up Dave. MOXYby Virgin?
Thoughts? Could it work?
Flyguy

It could but doesn't Richard Branson have a non-compete for x number of years with AS (a result of the Virgin America acquisition)?


He can invest wherever he wants - I don’t think anyone can stop him investing. Branding-wise though he probably won’t be able to license the Virgin brand while the agreement with VX/AS is still in place . But this could be a chance for AS to get out of it even though I doubt the new Neeleman airline would adopt the Virgin brand. But who knows - Virgin Moxy doesn’t sound too bad .
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:47 pm

VS11 wrote:
dabpit wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
So Rumors coming out that Richard Branson will likely be investing and teaming up Dave. MOXYby Virgin?
Thoughts? Could it work?
Flyguy

It could but doesn't Richard Branson have a non-compete for x number of years with AS (a result of the Virgin America acquisition)?


He can invest wherever he wants - I don’t think anyone can stop him investing. Branding-wise though he probably won’t be able to license the Virgin brand while the agreement with VX/AS is still in place . But this could be a chance for AS to get out of it even though I doubt the new Neeleman airline would adopt the Virgin brand. But who knows - Virgin Moxy doesn’t sound too bad .


Interesting as in the 90s before the launch of Jetblue, Neeleman and Branson were discussing the launch of Virgin America (under Neeleman management).
 
VS11
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:57 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
VS11 wrote:
dabpit wrote:
It could but doesn't Richard Branson have a non-compete for x number of years with AS (a result of the Virgin America acquisition)?


He can invest wherever he wants - I don’t think anyone can stop him investing. Branding-wise though he probably won’t be able to license the Virgin brand while the agreement with VX/AS is still in place . But this could be a chance for AS to get out of it even though I doubt the new Neeleman airline would adopt the Virgin brand. But who knows - Virgin Moxy doesn’t sound too bad .


Interesting as in the 90s before the launch of Jetblue, Neeleman and Branson were discussing the launch of Virgin America (under Neeleman management).


Yes, and I think Branson is on record publicly regretting not investing in jetBlue. Maybe the third time is a charm - with or without the Virgin brand.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:05 pm

planecane wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:

A lot of states don't enforce them. And given that VX was headquartered in California, my guess is that any non-compete is basically worthless. California more or less doesn't acknowledge or enforce non-compete agreements.


California actually came out against them, we can't have them in our company for sales people in that state for that reason alone.

There's a big difference between an employee non-compete and the non-compete for a CEO or large shareholder when a company is sold. The former is a workers rights issue while the latter is far more justifiable.


That’s not necessarily true. The Oil & Gas business is littered with unenforceable NC’s from middle management to the executive suite. They are a gentleman’s agreement in most cases.
 
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UPlog
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:15 pm

Interesting in the SCASD thread New Haven CT seeks a grant for Moxy.

Seeking $750,000 for revenue guarantee and marketing program to support new air service to Chicago and or Washington DC area by start-up Moxy.

Doesn Neeleman not have a home up that way?
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:13 pm

UPlog wrote:
Interesting in the SCASD thread New Haven CT seeks a grant for Moxy.

Seeking $750,000 for revenue guarantee and marketing program to support new air service to Chicago and or Washington DC area by start-up Moxy.

Doesn Neeleman not have a home up that way?


Ah, the New England way. Well in NY they had an official get an interstate (I-88) built between his home city of Binghampton NY and Albany NY.

Moxy, nor CT should be receiving this money. If it's awarded..... well.... then we know the whole SCASD program grants are rigged... and aren't really for serving small communities in need.
learning never stops.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:07 am

ODwyerPW wrote:

Ah, the New England way. Well in NY they had an official get an interstate (I-88) built between his home city of Binghampton NY and Albany NY.

Moxy, nor CT should be receiving this money. If it's awarded..... well.... then we know the whole SCASD program grants are rigged... and aren't really for serving small communities in need.


It’s spelled Binghamton (no p). It’s been one of my pet peeves for a while. Especially after hearing US/USX FAs muddle through attempting to pronounce it upon arrival. (The most common pronunciation was a bad blend with Birmingham.)
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:04 pm

Unbranded new carrier utilizing letters “mOxY” to formulate its proposed operation.

I wish we could rename this thread as we all should no the airline is NEVER going to be named “Moxy”.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:35 pm

I dunno. The whole "secondary" cities thing has been done. Usually met with failure. G9 is about the only airline which has remotely pulled it off.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:42 pm

G9 is kind of unique
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
Blueknows
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:57 pm

Could this be operation(buy over Jetblue?). Neeleman said in recent interview how much it hurt to leave Jetblue. Being forced out of his own company. Jetblue just named a plane after him. At huge corporate event they talked about David being involved with plane. He helped with tail design,etc. it seems odd he would build a new company to compete with B6. My prediction is Neeleman along with Branson take over Jetblue.
 
TObound
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:50 am

Blueknows wrote:
Could this be operation(buy over Jetblue?). Neeleman said in recent interview how much it hurt to leave Jetblue. Being forced out of his own company. Jetblue just named a plane after him. At huge corporate event they talked about David being involved with plane. He helped with tail design,etc. it seems odd he would build a new company to compete with B6. My prediction is Neeleman along with Branson take over Jetblue.


Why place such a huge order for airplanes to do this though?
 
Blueknows
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:57 am

It’s kinda ironic they order same planes. Also same amount.
 
ODwyerPW
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:54 am

Blueknows wrote:
My prediction is Neeleman along with Branson take over Jetblue.


Well now, that would take some moxy!
learning never stops.
 
Blerg
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:16 am

How much cash have they raised so far? There are less than 4 months until we get to 2020 when they are supposed to get their first aircraft. Shouldn't they be aiming for the 2020 summer season? After all that's when airlines make most of their money.
 
Blueknows
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:02 am

B6 stock is very low. How epic would it be if Neeleman and crew just bought enough stock to take control. It’s just a thought, but an epic takeover would be amazing. After being forced out to buy it back and take control again
 
Blueknows
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:03 am

 
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TheLunchbox
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:10 pm

Blueknows wrote:
B6 stock is very low. How epic would it be if Neeleman and crew just bought enough stock to take control. It’s just a thought, but an epic takeover would be amazing. After being forced out to buy it back and take control again


The stock is at $19 trending upwards so it's far from its low as It was $3.48 in 2011. But okay.
 
 
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TheLunchbox
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:13 pm

The article stated the interior is being outfitted in LCQ but it was delivered with all seats already.
 
wrongwayup
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:52 pm

Blerg wrote:
How much cash have they raised so far? There are less than 4 months until we get to 2020 when they are supposed to get their first aircraft. Shouldn't they be aiming for the 2020 summer season? After all that's when airlines make most of their money.


First airplane comes just in time for summer 2021. It's rumoured that David Neeleman is in the three comma club. He could fund this thing on his own...
 
marvinanderson1
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:43 pm

Summer 2021, that is an awful long time. Long enough for the competition to derail your route plans. I would believe their start-up would be a lot sooner.
 
EK77WNH
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:03 pm

marvinanderson1 wrote:
Summer 2021, that is an awful long time. Long enough for the competition to derail your route plans. I would believe their start-up would be a lot sooner.


On the surface, I'd agree. But this whole thing might not be a venture worth trying to 'derail' inasmuch as they are going PTP and supposedly staying out of everyone's way. Plus, they can't possibly hit the ground running with any sort of 'critical mass' enough to worry anyone.
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musman9853
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Moxy will start operations earlier than 2021 with E190s retired from Azul

Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:20 pm

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 05762?s=09

Also will apparently be the launch operator of the A220XLR
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
OmerMaz
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Re: Moxy will start operations earlier than 2021 with E190s retired from Azul

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:01 pm

musman9853 wrote:
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1172220326262005762?s=09

Also will apparently be the launch operator of the A220XLR


A220XLR? Sarcasm or that is the 2.5t MTOW bunp version?
 
jghealey
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Re: Moxy will start operations earlier than 2021 with E190s retired from Azul

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:07 pm

OmerMaz wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1172220326262005762?s=09

Also will apparently be the launch operator of the A220XLR


A220XLR? Sarcasm or that is the 2.5t MTOW bunp version?

Presumably the MTOW bump... but I thought that was going to be Delta?
 
tphuang
Posts: 5230
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Moxy will start operations earlier than 2021 with E190s retired from Azul

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:10 pm

Seems kind of aggressive to move up the start date. Normally airlines delay start date.
 
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FLALEFTY
Posts: 780
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Moxy will start operations earlier than 2021 with E190s retired from Azul

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:10 pm

Neeleman is a smart guy. He knows how Azul's E190's were maintained. It is a buyer's market for used E190's. He can swap precious A220 delivery slots with new-fleet-hungry airlines like DL and AF, which will delay major capital costs during Moxy's financially-fragile start up period. Plus, he needs to hurry and get Moxy established before the US economy eventually enters its next recession.
 
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PacoMartin
Posts: 901
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: Moxy will start operations earlier than 2021 with E190s retired from Azul

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:27 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
Neeleman is a smart guy. He knows how Azul's E190's were maintained. It is a buyer's market for used E190's. He can swap precious A220 delivery slots with new-fleet-hungry airlines like DL and AF, which will delay major capital costs during Moxy's financially-fragile start up period. Plus, he needs to hurry and get Moxy established before the US economy eventually enters its next recession.


David Neeleman has launched four airlines (1) Morris Air, (2) WestJet , (3) jetBlue, and (4) Azul Linhas Aéreas Brasileiras . Azul was established on May 5, 2008 , with a fleet of 76 Embraer 195 jets.

Azul is currently operating 58 Embraer jets
Embraer E195-E2 1
Embraer ERJ-190 6
Embraer ERJ-195 51

So the tweet is at least believable.
 
CRJ200flyer
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:35 pm

I’m confused - why would they need a separate Air Operator’s Certificate for the E190? Why not just put it on the new airline’s?
 
musman9853
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Moxy will start operations earlier than 2021 with E190s retired from Azul

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:43 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Neeleman is a smart guy. He knows how Azul's E190's were maintained. It is a buyer's market for used E190's. He can swap precious A220 delivery slots with new-fleet-hungry airlines like DL and AF, which will delay major capital costs during Moxy's financially-fragile start up period. Plus, he needs to hurry and get Moxy established before the US economy eventually enters its next recession.


David Neeleman has launched four airlines (1) Morris Air, (2) WestJet , (3) jetBlue, and (4) Azul Linhas Aéreas Brasileiras . Azul was established on May 5, 2008 , with a fleet of 76 Embraer 195 jets.

Azul is currently operating 58 Embraer jets
Embraer E195-E2 1
Embraer ERJ-190 6
Embraer ERJ-195 51

So the tweet is at least believable.


Ostrower is a reputable journalist who is currently in Brazil covering the delivery of the first E2 to Azul. Why wouldn't it be believable?
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
744lover
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 5:29 am

Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:48 pm

In this interview that brazilian newspaper "O Estado de São Paulo" made with Neeleman,

https://economia.estadao.com.br/noticia ... 0003006778

I found interesting him mentioning choosing the C-series over the E2 because "it can hold extra fuel"... Reading between the lines, Neeleman is planning to launch long-haul flights with them. Expect some long/thin routes.....
"Lá, o mercado é muito competitivo. Tem muita gente que quer matar novos entrantes. Vamos começar com o A220 (avião da Airbus que compete diretamente com modelos da Embraer). Estudamos o E2 (nova família de aeronaves da Embraer), uma aeronave muito boa. Mas o A220 dá algumas vantagens. Uma delas é podermos colocar um tanque de combustível auxiliar para ter alcance de quase nove horas. Então podemos voar mais de 6 mil km. Podemos ter primeira classe com assentos que reclinam 180 graus e trocar essa configuração, com flexibilidade para voar para Europa, para mercados no Brasil onde a Azul não tem voos... "
which is translated to:
"There, the market is very competitive. There are a lot of people who want to kill new entrants. Let's start with the A220 (Airbus aircraft that competes directly with Embraer models). We studied the E2 (Embraer's new family of aircraft), a very good aircraft. But the A220 gives some advantages. One is that we can put an auxiliary fuel tank to reach almost nine hours. So we can fly over 6,000 km. We can have first class seats with recline 180 degrees and change this configuration, with flexibility to fly to Europe, to markets in Brazil where Azul has no flights ..."


Good luck and all the best, Mr Neeleman.
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:02 pm

744lover wrote:
In this interview that brazilian newspaper "O Estado de São Paulo" made with Neeleman,

https://economia.estadao.com.br/noticia ... 0003006778

I found interesting him mentioning choosing the C-series over the E2 because "it can hold extra fuel"... Reading between the lines, Neeleman is planning to launch long-haul flights with them. Expect some long/thin routes.....
"Lá, o mercado é muito competitivo. Tem muita gente que quer matar novos entrantes. Vamos começar com o A220 (avião da Airbus que compete diretamente com modelos da Embraer). Estudamos o E2 (nova família de aeronaves da Embraer), uma aeronave muito boa. Mas o A220 dá algumas vantagens. Uma delas é podermos colocar um tanque de combustível auxiliar para ter alcance de quase nove horas. Então podemos voar mais de 6 mil km. Podemos ter primeira classe com assentos que reclinam 180 graus e trocar essa configuração, com flexibilidade para voar para Europa, para mercados no Brasil onde a Azul não tem voos... "
which is translated to:
"There, the market is very competitive. There are a lot of people who want to kill new entrants. Let's start with the A220 (Airbus aircraft that competes directly with Embraer models). We studied the E2 (Embraer's new family of aircraft), a very good aircraft. But the A220 gives some advantages. One is that we can put an auxiliary fuel tank to reach almost nine hours. So we can fly over 6,000 km. We can have first class seats with recline 180 degrees and change this configuration, with flexibility to fly to Europe, to markets in Brazil where Azul has no flights ..."


Good luck and all the best, Mr Neeleman.


Sounds like he wants to adapt the cabin depending on the destination, interesting. More or less like a B737 Quick change
 
SocalApproach
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:06 pm

Where exactly is he getting these pilots from to launch earlier?
Last edited by SocalApproach on Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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