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Lpbri
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:48 am

The GPA requirement will deter many from taking on more challenging majors.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:14 pm

Polot wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Even 4 years for a college degree is ridiculous. It's about extracting the maximum money out of young people. Most of what I learned as an undergrad was totally useless and forgotten 10 minutes after I finished the final exam. No online school for a FA should be four years. Two years is a stretch. Really does a FA need to take Literature of the 1600s to do their job? I would have thought Neeleman to be smarter than that.

As far as age as you get older it becomes harder to retain knowledge and take tests. And let's be honest it's not like a FA's job has changed vastly over the years like many other occupations. Other than geting safety certification on a new a/c the job doesn't change much. Serving a diet coke hasn't exactly changed over the years. The consequences is that it's harder to take in new knowledge and past tests. Again, I'm clueless to what would need to take 4 years of study to work as a FA. There are a lot of bright, able, motivated young people out there maybe not cut out for a STEM degree but no desire to go into $50K in debt for a useless college degree. I'm sure a paid 1-2 year study period to become a FA would be perfect for them.


You don’t seem to understand. Breeze is not doing this so FAs earn a degree and stay with the company for the rest of their working life. Breeze wants their FA’s to earn a degree, then eventually leave. That way they can keep a high proportion of young, enthusiastic FAs (I doubt as the company grows all FA’s will be hired with such arrangement), their workforce stays rather junior with lower salaries, and they are less likely to unionize.

This is basically an opportunity to travel and see country as you earn a degree (on company dime) before going off on own desired career path.


Well that's even dumber. Why is it that WN hires FAs for life but doesn't seem to have the issues that the legacies have with people not cut out for the job but stay in the job for whatever reasons, How about a rigorous interviewing and training people that weeds out people that are not cut out to deal with the public and the stress.

Based upon what I've witnessed in more than 25 years of constant flying age has nothing to do with attitude. The young FAs that sit on their ass staring at their phone screen will be just as lazy and unconcerned if they are in the job 20 years from now. The early days of COVID proved which FAs thought their job was to sit in a jump seat all day. Hire the right people and it won't matter if they are 26 or 66. Some of the older flights FAs remember when they had to serve an entire dinner service to both cabins on a NYC/ORD flight. Some of the younger ones act like getting out of their seat to serve a Diet Coke is a strain beyond comprehension.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:02 pm

This is a brilliant move for Breeze and they don't have to staff their entire airlines this way, just enough to ensure the group never unionizes as these 4 year temporary F/As would be resistant to that.

I'm all for higher requirements for FAs and this is one way to ensure that without the higher pay to go along with it. The current hiring practices at other airlines is kind of sad. They have to take basically anyone because their pay has fallen so far behind as time has gone on compared to the old days.
 
ryanrap1
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:45 pm

When does anyone guess we will begin to see some route announcements?
 
n7371f
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Re: Breeze Airways Now Hiring FAs-Major Changes

Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:53 am

You're making a good point.

Mine: it opens doors outside Breeze which will keep a flow of attrition allowing Breeze to consistently backfill with younger flight attendants in a perpetual cycle.

enilria wrote:
Polot wrote:
Lpbri wrote:
A college degree in what? There is no point in getting any college degree just for the sake of having one.

In whatever they want. This is Breeze’s attempt to get young people as FAs who will not stick around long.

I 1/2 disagree. It’s an attempt to get young people who will stick around for 4 years. 4 years is a long time for new FAs. It is VERY common for FAs to get pregnant in the first 18 months and they very rarely come back since being an FA pays so poorly it makes little sense to pay somebody else to watch your child.

They are essentially saying that they want young people who want a career and not an insta-family.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:07 am

ryanrap1 wrote:
When does anyone guess we will begin to see some route announcements?

Fairly soon. They will be flying revenue flights in March/April. They will need some lead time to advertise and sell seats prior to the inaugural flight.
 
enplaned
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:47 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
this will only work for so long. Once the fresh newhires see how much money they could make at a major carrier, they will abandon their college aspirations and work for a real airline with a union. The thing they are not taking into account with that demographic is usually the just out of high school crowd does not want to live in an environment where people are telling them what to do. They had 18 years of that at home, and while a good opportunity - they may quit well ahead of the airline's desired timeframe to push them out the door. Once they see they can have their own life at a different airline, without the company dictating their career and social life they will jump ship.


The whole point is to select from a group of people who are unlikely to see flight attendant as a career - who see it as as stage of life, not a lifetime commitment.

Not sure why this is so hard for so many people to wrap their head around.
 
enplaned
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:52 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
ryanrap1 wrote:
When does anyone guess we will begin to see some route announcements?

Fairly soon. They will be flying revenue flights in March/April. They will need some lead time to advertise and sell seats prior to the inaugural flight.


That's their aim - whether the DOT or FAA cooperate on timing remains to be seen.

Breeze's DOT application is incredibly aggressive in terms of adding aircraft - not just the total number of aircraft in the first year, which is large (over 20), but also spread across two entirely distinct aircraft types.

It will be interesting to see if this gives the govt heartburn.

And that aside, it's not uncommon for de-novo certifications to go long.
 
enplaned
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:55 am

Miamiairport wrote:
Polot wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Even 4 years for a college degree is ridiculous. It's about extracting the maximum money out of young people. Most of what I learned as an undergrad was totally useless and forgotten 10 minutes after I finished the final exam. No online school for a FA should be four years. Two years is a stretch. Really does a FA need to take Literature of the 1600s to do their job? I would have thought Neeleman to be smarter than that.

As far as age as you get older it becomes harder to retain knowledge and take tests. And let's be honest it's not like a FA's job has changed vastly over the years like many other occupations. Other than geting safety certification on a new a/c the job doesn't change much. Serving a diet coke hasn't exactly changed over the years. The consequences is that it's harder to take in new knowledge and past tests. Again, I'm clueless to what would need to take 4 years of study to work as a FA. There are a lot of bright, able, motivated young people out there maybe not cut out for a STEM degree but no desire to go into $50K in debt for a useless college degree. I'm sure a paid 1-2 year study period to become a FA would be perfect for them.


You don’t seem to understand. Breeze is not doing this so FAs earn a degree and stay with the company for the rest of their working life. Breeze wants their FA’s to earn a degree, then eventually leave. That way they can keep a high proportion of young, enthusiastic FAs (I doubt as the company grows all FA’s will be hired with such arrangement), their workforce stays rather junior with lower salaries, and they are less likely to unionize.

This is basically an opportunity to travel and see country as you earn a degree (on company dime) before going off on own desired career path.


Well that's even dumber. Why is it that WN hires FAs for life but doesn't seem to have the issues that the legacies have with people not cut out for the job but stay in the job for whatever reasons, How about a rigorous interviewing and training people that weeds out people that are not cut out to deal with the public and the stress.

Based upon what I've witnessed in more than 25 years of constant flying age has nothing to do with attitude. The young FAs that sit on their ass staring at their phone screen will be just as lazy and unconcerned if they are in the job 20 years from now. The early days of COVID proved which FAs thought their job was to sit in a jump seat all day. Hire the right people and it won't matter if they are 26 or 66. Some of the older flights FAs remember when they had to serve an entire dinner service to both cabins on a NYC/ORD flight. Some of the younger ones act like getting out of their seat to serve a Diet Coke is a strain beyond comprehension.


Breeze may believe that they can get people with a good attitude *and* have a large fraction of them view it as a stage in life, not a lifetime commitment. And if that happens, then that will help them keep a reasonably low seniority among their FA corps, and that will help keep costs down while still having a stellar FA complement.

Not saying it will happen, saying Breeze may believe it can achieve this.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:04 pm

enplaned wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
this will only work for so long. Once the fresh newhires see how much money they could make at a major carrier, they will abandon their college aspirations and work for a real airline with a union. The thing they are not taking into account with that demographic is usually the just out of high school crowd does not want to live in an environment where people are telling them what to do. They had 18 years of that at home, and while a good opportunity - they may quit well ahead of the airline's desired timeframe to push them out the door. Once they see they can have their own life at a different airline, without the company dictating their career and social life they will jump ship.


The whole point is to select from a group of people who are unlikely to see flight attendant as a career - who see it as as stage of life, not a lifetime commitment.

Not sure why this is so hard for so many people to wrap their head around.


I joined the airlines with the same attitude. Do this for a few years while I go to school. I dropped out of college and make more money and have a more flexible lifestyle than my older brother who went to college.

It's easy to think of it as a dead end job when you are young, but when these people see they can do the same job they are doing but at a different carrier and have a better lifestyle than with a college degree they will jump ship. not all. but some.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:37 pm

Seems Breeze won't be paying much compared to other regional airlines in the first year (while the sixth year is higher then Skywest):

https://onemileatatime.com/breeze-airways-pilots/
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:03 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Seems Breeze won't be paying much compared to other regional airlines in the first year (while the sixth year is higher then Skywest):

https://onemileatatime.com/breeze-airways-pilots/

Careful, that article focused too much on minimum hours * rate.

First officers will be paid $55 per hour in year one, and $94 per hour in year six
Captains will be paid $117 per hour in year one, and $143 per hour in year six
Pilots are only guaranteed


That is for E-jet pilots. Since the rate is better than SkyWest and Breeze is hiring, they will be flooded with applicants.

What we do not know is the expected work rate of hours per month. I would expect Neeleman to model prior airlines and encourage pilots to bid for many trips.

Who this hurts is the pilots intentionally bidding reserve. The minimum hours are low. During Covid19, wise. This also allows for high seasonality. e.g., park a lot of aircraft in September.

Breeze has a very different work setup. Some will not like it. I fail to see how for the next 4 years they will not be flooded with applicants.

Lightsaber
7 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:51 pm

lightsaber wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
Seems Breeze won't be paying much compared to other regional airlines in the first year (while the sixth year is higher then Skywest):

https://onemileatatime.com/breeze-airways-pilots/

Careful, that article focused too much on minimum hours * rate.

First officers will be paid $55 per hour in year one, and $94 per hour in year six
Captains will be paid $117 per hour in year one, and $143 per hour in year six
Pilots are only guaranteed


That is for E-jet pilots. Since the rate is better than SkyWest and Breeze is hiring, they will be flooded with applicants.

What we do not know is the expected work rate of hours per month. I would expect Neeleman to model prior airlines and encourage pilots to bid for many trips.

Who this hurts is the pilots intentionally bidding reserve. The minimum hours are low. During Covid19, wise. This also allows for high seasonality. e.g., park a lot of aircraft in September.

Breeze has a very different work setup. Some will not like it. I fail to see how for the next 4 years they will not be flooded with applicants.

Lightsaber


Pre-covid min guarantee was to be 75 hours. Since covid, it’s evolved to 55 hours. It’s supposed to be temporary. But...who knows. Once flying comes, I imagine the line holders will be flying quite a bit. There is also talk of making everybody on the seniority list take reserve shifts/months. I believe that’s still up in the air. It’s gonna be a rough first couple years for a lot of those guys, but it could be fun to be a part of it.

Edited to add: that article says the following:

“Pilots are only guaranteed pay for 55 hours per month of flying (this is really the worst part, since pilots at most airlines are guaranteed 75+ hours per month)”
 
F9Animal
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:01 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
Seems Breeze won't be paying much compared to other regional airlines in the first year (while the sixth year is higher then Skywest):

https://onemileatatime.com/breeze-airways-pilots/

Careful, that article focused too much on minimum hours * rate.

First officers will be paid $55 per hour in year one, and $94 per hour in year six
Captains will be paid $117 per hour in year one, and $143 per hour in year six
Pilots are only guaranteed


That is for E-jet pilots. Since the rate is better than SkyWest and Breeze is hiring, they will be flooded with applicants.

What we do not know is the expected work rate of hours per month. I would expect Neeleman to model prior airlines and encourage pilots to bid for many trips.

Who this hurts is the pilots intentionally bidding reserve. The minimum hours are low. During Covid19, wise. This also allows for high seasonality. e.g., park a lot of aircraft in September.

Breeze has a very different work setup. Some will not like it. I fail to see how for the next 4 years they will not be flooded with applicants.

Lightsaber


Pre-covid min guarantee was to be 75 hours. Since covid, it’s evolved to 55 hours. It’s supposed to be temporary. But...who knows. Once flying comes, I imagine the line holders will be flying quite a bit. There is also talk of making everybody on the seniority list take reserve shifts/months. I believe that’s still up in the air. It’s gonna be a rough first couple years for a lot of those guys, but it could be fun to be a part of it.

Edited to add: that article says the following:

“Pilots are only guaranteed pay for 55 hours per month of flying (this is really the worst part, since pilots at most airlines are guaranteed 75+ hours per month)”


Breeze knows there is a huge pool of pilots looking for a way to put food on the table. Taking advantage of the situation I suppose? And Neeleman knows this group will likely unionize down the road, so why not go low for now.

As for the flight attendants? Geesh, talk about crazy. Apparently their housing will be provided. But still, that is just going to be such a difficult career IMO. But rest assured, there are alot of Flight Attendants out of work right now, so again, taking advantage of the situation.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:05 pm

Every situation is different, but I can't see a lot of people, even on furlough, going to a different carrier. Keep your seniority and get recalled in 6 months at your existing carrier when vaccines start ramping up travel demand. Why start over? There are other ways to pay the bills in the meantime.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:31 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Every situation is different, but I can't see a lot of people, even on furlough, going to a different carrier. Keep your seniority and get recalled in 6 months at your existing carrier when vaccines start ramping up travel demand. Why start over? There are other ways to pay the bills in the meantime.

Some of the delta guys going there aren’t furloughed—but they are getting 30 hours to stay at home. So, they are going to be making 30 hours of delta pay on top of 55 hours of breeze pay. They, along with some of the furloughed AA guys going to breeze will end up going back when they are recalled and will leave Breeze. Same as what happened to a lot of the US air, United, and I think a few delta pilots who went to jetblue a while ago.
 
airtran737
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:39 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Every situation is different, but I can't see a lot of people, even on furlough, going to a different carrier. Keep your seniority and get recalled in 6 months at your existing carrier when vaccines start ramping up travel demand. Why start over? There are other ways to pay the bills in the meantime.

Some of the delta guys going there aren’t furloughed—but they are getting 30 hours to stay at home. So, they are going to be making 30 hours of delta pay on top of 55 hours of breeze pay. They, along with some of the furloughed AA guys going to breeze will end up going back when they are recalled and will leave Breeze. Same as what happened to a lot of the US air, United, and I think a few delta pilots who went to jetblue a while ago.


I don't think Breeze is going to take the furloughed guys from AA and those on leaves from other carriers. There are thousands of 175 pilots at Republic, Mesa, Skywest, Envoy and Horizon. Plus the furloughed Compass pilots. They don't need people who are going to bail on them. They want their new investments to buy in and stay around. I can only hope that the new Breeze pilots unionize as soon as possible and reject these pay rates.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:03 am

airtran737 wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Every situation is different, but I can't see a lot of people, even on furlough, going to a different carrier. Keep your seniority and get recalled in 6 months at your existing carrier when vaccines start ramping up travel demand. Why start over? There are other ways to pay the bills in the meantime.

Some of the delta guys going there aren’t furloughed—but they are getting 30 hours to stay at home. So, they are going to be making 30 hours of delta pay on top of 55 hours of breeze pay. They, along with some of the furloughed AA guys going to breeze will end up going back when they are recalled and will leave Breeze. Same as what happened to a lot of the US air, United, and I think a few delta pilots who went to jetblue a while ago.


I don't think Breeze is going to take the furloughed guys from AA and those on leaves from other carriers. There are thousands of 175 pilots at Republic, Mesa, Skywest, Envoy and Horizon. Plus the furloughed Compass pilots. They don't need people who are going to bail on them. They want their new investments to buy in and stay around. I can only hope that the new Breeze pilots unionize as soon as possible and reject these pay rates.

I thought the same thing. But I can assure you they have hired at least a few AA and delta guys, and they know full well they will likely lose them.
 
avier
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:42 am

In the U.S, do airlines hire pilots on a bond (?) (a contract to work for a set period which cannot be broken unless against a bond penalty).

This is something done in Asia. Idk, if such a thing is legal in the west. These bonds would prevent a pilot from leaving the airlines quickly.
 
pranav7478
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:50 am

Lpbri wrote:
If this college is done online, how do you attend lab classes? As an undergraduate, I spent a lot of time in lab classes.

i am in college right now. this quarter my lab was online, so they converted the assignments into readings rather than actual lab experiments, and we answer the questions or do reports based on just the readings and youtube experiments. it is kind of a pain, but not as bad as it seems. initially they said all the labs would be in person, but they made them online because covid cases skyrocketed.
Planes I have flown on: CRJ-900, E175, E190, A319, A320, A321, A330-200, 717, 737-700, 737-800, 747-400, 747-8I, 757-200, 767-300, 777-200, 777-300(ER), 787-8, 787-9
Airlines I have flown on: AI, AS, BA, DL, 6E, 9W, B6, KE, SQ, WN, UA, US, VA
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:58 am

avier wrote:
In the U.S, do airlines hire pilots on a bond (?) (a contract to work for a set period which cannot be broken unless against a bond penalty).

This is something done in Asia. Idk, if such a thing is legal in the west. These bonds would prevent a pilot from leaving the airlines quickly.

Some, not many, US airlines have or had training contracts, or they had sign on bonuses contingent upon remaining for a year. Usually the contracts were limited to a year, but I think one might have been 2 (frontier airlines, but I believe theirs is completely gone now). And iirc they were mostly limited to regional airlines (besides frontier). If you broke it, you basically paid a prorated amount depending on how long you stayed. Most of them seemed to have gone away in the last few years though. Breeze will not have any training contracts as of right now, and I would be surprised if they did. It would be a huge turnoff for applicants, and a huge red flag about the company.
 
avier
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:14 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
avier wrote:
In the U.S, do airlines hire pilots on a bond (?) (a contract to work for a set period which cannot be broken unless against a bond penalty).

This is something done in Asia. Idk, if such a thing is legal in the west. These bonds would prevent a pilot from leaving the airlines quickly.

Some, not many, US airlines have or had training contracts, or they had sign on bonuses contingent upon remaining for a year. Usually the contracts were limited to a year, but I think one might have been 2 (frontier airlines, but I believe theirs is completely gone now). And iirc they were mostly limited to regional airlines (besides frontier). If you broke it, you basically paid a prorated amount depending on how long you stayed. Most of them seemed to have gone away in the last few years though. Breeze will not have any training contracts as of right now, and I would be surprised if they did. It would be a huge turnoff for applicants, and a huge red flag about the company.


Employees would be well aware if such a bond existed and have a choice to join the said company or not. It's done in the Gulf and at even major Asian carriers. Those companies aren't red flagged.

As of now, with the number of pilots in the open market, I doubt they'd be so picky about this. It would actually be a red flag about those employees who just want to come for 6 months to a year and leave.

A bond would ensure they have candidates who are serious about the company and want to stick around for a considerable duration and not those that just come and go like at McDonald's.
 
trexel94
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:47 am

Updated livery scheme. Here is the first painted Breeze E195. Much more modern and clean but still would have preferred Moxy. Would someone more tech savvy than me please upload the photo?

https://imgur.com/a/pxurkV9
 
Jshank83
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:00 am

trexel94 wrote:
Updated livery scheme. Here is the first painted Breeze E195. Much more modern and clean but still would have preferred Moxy. Would someone more tech savvy than me please upload the photo?

https://imgur.com/a/pxurkV9


Image
 
Ishrion
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:12 am

Jshank83 wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
Updated livery scheme. Here is the first painted Breeze E195. Much more modern and clean but still would have preferred Moxy. Would someone more tech savvy than me please upload the photo?

https://imgur.com/a/pxurkV9


Image


"This was one of the finalist visuals of Breeze's corporate identity".
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:32 am

That was a livery they considered and didn’t go with as far as I know. There is actually a painted plane out there...but it’s a lot closer to the light blue scheme found here https://www.flybreeze.com/

It kind of looks like N304JB in person, at least as far as the light blue color goes.
 
enplaned
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:17 am

https://beta.regulations.gov/document/D ... -0019-0010

Breeze files a second response to DOT - almost all of which is redacted.

It filed two leases, one example each of the leases it is filing with Nordic and Azul.

However, the cover doc says that Breeze has signed 15 leases with Nordic and 2 with Azul (with a third coming). Considering they're not even an airline yet (no certificate) this is a bonkers level of ambition.

The filing closes by saying:

With this submission, Breeze respectfully submits that it has provided all information requested by the Department and requests that it promptly proceed to issue an order under its show cause procedures to find the Breeze fit to engage in scheduled passenger air transportation.


In other words, give us our certificate already. No word on where they are with the FAA.
 
Jerseyguy
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:47 am

With this submission, Breeze respectfully submits that it has provided all information requested by the Department and requests that it promptly proceed to issue an order under its show cause procedures to find the Breeze fit to engage in scheduled passenger air transportation.


I can see the route announcements now
Breeze Airways announces 4 new routes from Islip (Pending goverment approval :roll: :roll:)

(serious idea) Breeze Airways: Work's hard your vacation should be a Breeze (TM)
 
Blerg
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:19 am

Will be interesting once they start announcing routes. If I remember correctly it was mentioned that they would focus on the south and south-east.
 
Delta350
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:05 am

Blerg wrote:
Will be interesting once they start announcing routes. If I remember correctly it was mentioned that they would focus on the south and south-east.
BHM would be great. Not much competition to there and should be ok to manage
Plane Spotter from the Magic City and Hartsfield-Jackson...(ATL)
 
Blerg
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:18 am

Delta350 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Will be interesting once they start announcing routes. If I remember correctly it was mentioned that they would focus on the south and south-east.
BHM would be great. Not much competition to there and should be ok to manage


What kind of destinations could work from BHM?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:36 am

avier wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
avier wrote:
In the U.S, do airlines hire pilots on a bond (?) (a contract to work for a set period which cannot be broken unless against a bond penalty).

This is something done in Asia. Idk, if such a thing is legal in the west. These bonds would prevent a pilot from leaving the airlines quickly.

Some, not many, US airlines have or had training contracts, or they had sign on bonuses contingent upon remaining for a year. Usually the contracts were limited to a year, but I think one might have been 2 (frontier airlines, but I believe theirs is completely gone now). And iirc they were mostly limited to regional airlines (besides frontier). If you broke it, you basically paid a prorated amount depending on how long you stayed. Most of them seemed to have gone away in the last few years though. Breeze will not have any training contracts as of right now, and I would be surprised if they did. It would be a huge turnoff for applicants, and a huge red flag about the company.


Employees would be well aware if such a bond existed and have a choice to join the said company or not. It's done in the Gulf and at even major Asian carriers. Those companies aren't red flagged.

As of now, with the number of pilots in the open market, I doubt they'd be so picky about this. It would actually be a red flag about those employees who just want to come for 6 months to a year and leave.

A bond would ensure they have candidates who are serious about the company and want to stick around for a considerable duration and not those that just come and go like at McDonald's.


The outline offered by JoseSalazar - a commitment offered for incremental compensation - is common across U.S. industries, particularly in management/professional labor. The idea of a bond - you have to work for us for a specific period - could be prohibited as indentured servitude. Some comparisons to Gulf or Asian practices just aren't relevant to U.S. labor law.

Awareness isn't the issue. Example: An employee could be aware that the employer was paying less than the legislated minimum wage but it still wouldn't be legal for the employer to do so.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:02 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
avier wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
Some, not many, US airlines have or had training contracts, or they had sign on bonuses contingent upon remaining for a year. Usually the contracts were limited to a year, but I think one might have been 2 (frontier airlines, but I believe theirs is completely gone now). And iirc they were mostly limited to regional airlines (besides frontier). If you broke it, you basically paid a prorated amount depending on how long you stayed. Most of them seemed to have gone away in the last few years though. Breeze will not have any training contracts as of right now, and I would be surprised if they did. It would be a huge turnoff for applicants, and a huge red flag about the company.


Employees would be well aware if such a bond existed and have a choice to join the said company or not. It's done in the Gulf and at even major Asian carriers. Those companies aren't red flagged.

As of now, with the number of pilots in the open market, I doubt they'd be so picky about this. It would actually be a red flag about those employees who just want to come for 6 months to a year and leave.

A bond would ensure they have candidates who are serious about the company and want to stick around for a considerable duration and not those that just come and go like at McDonald's.


The outline offered by JoseSalazar - a commitment offered for incremental compensation - is common across U.S. industries, particularly in management/professional labor. The idea of a bond - you have to work for us for a specific period - could be prohibited as indentured servitude. Some comparisons to Gulf or Asian practices just aren't relevant to U.S. labor law.

Awareness isn't the issue. Example: An employee could be aware that the employer was paying less than the legislated minimum wage but it still wouldn't be legal for the employer to do so.

In the US, a bonus with clawback provisions is the most allowed for a trapped person in labor. I was once offered another job at the same time my current job changed sites. I was granted a two year clawback bonus as a retention effort. The younger idiot me bought a BMW with the bonus and then realized, I really didn't like the new city... oops.

So one can legally sign two year contracts. But the company can only legally take back money going through employee hands (which could be for pilot training) only if the employee quits. If they are fired, you cannot take the money back. If the employee dies, the estate keeps the money.

I only know as I wasn't prepared to give up my BMW, but I wanted out, so I did my research. My all expenses paid move and a few other things were exempt from clawback. We even (there were a lot of us, I wasn't unique) had to take a 2 hour training class on the legalities of a clawback bonus before signing!

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ATLgaUSA
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:15 pm

Blerg wrote:
Delta350 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Will be interesting once they start announcing routes. If I remember correctly it was mentioned that they would focus on the south and south-east.
BHM would be great. Not much competition to there and should be ok to manage


What kind of destinations could work from BHM?


AUS, RDU, PIT, BOS, STL, JAX, MSY in the east/Midwest.

LAX, PHX in the west.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:49 pm

ATLgaUSA wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Delta350 wrote:
BHM would be great. Not much competition to there and should be ok to manage


What kind of destinations could work from BHM?


AUS, RDU, PIT, BOS, STL, JAX, MSY in the east/Midwest.

LAX, PHX in the west.


Every single one of these is on-line for Southwest. The significance of which is that the danger you run is that you build up a market, only for Southwest to put in a nonstop and benefit from the hard work you have done to create that market.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:56 pm

enplaned wrote:
ATLgaUSA wrote:
Blerg wrote:

What kind of destinations could work from BHM?


AUS, RDU, PIT, BOS, STL, JAX, MSY in the east/Midwest.

LAX, PHX in the west.


Every single one of these is on-line for Southwest. The significance of which is that the danger you run is that you build up a market, only for Southwest to put in a nonstop and benefit from the hard work you have done to create that market.



Kinda like Frontier and DEN from places like MEM and LIT

They'll seek Allegiant like routes first. Something out of the box like MEM/BDL splitting the difference between NYC and BOS.
 
ATLgaUSA
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:54 am

enplaned wrote:
ATLgaUSA wrote:
Blerg wrote:

What kind of destinations could work from BHM?


AUS, RDU, PIT, BOS, STL, JAX, MSY in the east/Midwest.

LAX, PHX in the west.


Every single one of these is on-line for Southwest. The significance of which is that the danger you run is that you build up a market, only for Southwest to put in a nonstop and benefit from the hard work you have done to create that market.

That will also be the case for almost any medium sized city pairs in the country.
 
ATLgaUSA
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:56 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
enplaned wrote:
ATLgaUSA wrote:

AUS, RDU, PIT, BOS, STL, JAX, MSY in the east/Midwest.

LAX, PHX in the west.


Every single one of these is on-line for Southwest. The significance of which is that the danger you run is that you build up a market, only for Southwest to put in a nonstop and benefit from the hard work you have done to create that market.



Kinda like Frontier and DEN from places like MEM and LIT

They'll seek Allegiant like routes first. Something out of the box like MEM/BDL splitting the difference between NYC and BOS.

I’ll buy you a beer if they launch with a route like MEM-BDL. No local market and will not pull passengers going to NYC or BOS.
 
PVD757
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:18 pm

If Breeze were to enter PVD, my guess would be they consider SFB, SRQ, SAV, CHS, JAX and similar type routes that don’t compete directly with anyone except maybe G4. The difference will be Breeze should have an easier time filling an E90 versus G4 filling an A320.

Just my guess.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:07 pm

ATLgaUSA wrote:
enplaned wrote:
ATLgaUSA wrote:

AUS, RDU, PIT, BOS, STL, JAX, MSY in the east/Midwest.

LAX, PHX in the west.


Every single one of these is on-line for Southwest. The significance of which is that the danger you run is that you build up a market, only for Southwest to put in a nonstop and benefit from the hard work you have done to create that market.

That will also be the case for almost any medium sized city pairs in the country.

Agreed, but if Breeze, like Allegiant, can find the markets that only support 2 to 4 flights per week, they will be fine.

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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:22 am

I’m hearing that Breeze is shifting their focus and will now start operations out west, potentially Arizona, Utah, and Texas from my sources.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:52 am

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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:05 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I’m hearing that Breeze is shifting their focus and will now start operations out west, potentially Arizona, Utah, and Texas from my sources.

While interesting, this is counter to the ISP maintenance base. However, partnering with a Utah university and a SLC headquarters will create a pull out West. However, the population out east is massive with many unserved P2P markets.

Out West, it is fewer cities than out east. With fewer cities, that is fewer underserved routes. The point will be picking cities that didn't scorch their economies during 2020.

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Miamiairport
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:19 pm

lightsaber wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I’m hearing that Breeze is shifting their focus and will now start operations out west, potentially Arizona, Utah, and Texas from my sources.

While interesting, this is counter to the ISP maintenance base. However, partnering with a Utah university and a SLC headquarters will create a pull out West. However, the population out east is massive with many unserved P2P markets.

Out West, it is fewer cities than out east. With fewer cities, that is fewer underserved routes. The point will be picking cities that didn't scorch their economies during 2020.

Lightsaber


This is key. The entire WFH movement is upon us. I'm looking around for a new position and I've not had one company yet tell me I have to move to their offices (I'm in Florida and not leaving Florida). Suddenly people will be free to move to small and medium cities with less crime, better schools, lower cost of living, etc. But they might be leaving family and friends and want to go back on a regular basis. I see cities like Jacksonville, FL, Austin Texas, Tuscon, AZ, Boise, ID and Reno, NV the winners in this new paradigm.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:37 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I’m hearing that Breeze is shifting their focus and will now start operations out west, potentially Arizona, Utah, and Texas from my sources.

While interesting, this is counter to the ISP maintenance base. However, partnering with a Utah university and a SLC headquarters will create a pull out West. However, the population out east is massive with many unserved P2P markets.

Out West, it is fewer cities than out east. With fewer cities, that is fewer underserved routes. The point will be picking cities that didn't scorch their economies during 2020.

Lightsaber


This is key. The entire WFH movement is upon us. I'm looking around for a new position and I've not had one company yet tell me I have to move to their offices (I'm in Florida and not leaving Florida). Suddenly people will be free to move to small and medium cities with less crime, better schools, lower cost of living, etc. But they might be leaving family and friends and want to go back on a regular basis. I see cities like Jacksonville, FL, Austin Texas, Tuscon, AZ, Boise, ID and Reno, NV the winners in this new paradigm.

While I like the work from home (WFH) movement, companies need to benchmark efficiency. My employer did and found a marked efficiency hit. Some were individuals who dropped productivity unsupervised, some was those random interactions. We ended up allowing the very productive and vulnerable to be 100% WFH, but the rest we require 50% in office. When the Vaccine is more common, I do think some companies will be much more WFH. I see more sattelite offices with more time WFH.

If your employer did a better job maintaining productivity, great for them. My brother's found solutions that allow less time in the office and already a third of their workforce moved to other states. Perhaps industry dependent.

The more the later, the better for airlines, in particular Breeze.

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travaz
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:43 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I’m hearing that Breeze is shifting their focus and will now start operations out west, potentially Arizona, Utah, and Texas from my sources.

While interesting, this is counter to the ISP maintenance base. However, partnering with a Utah university and a SLC headquarters will create a pull out West. However, the population out east is massive with many unserved P2P markets.

Out West, it is fewer cities than out east. With fewer cities, that is fewer underserved routes. The point will be picking cities that didn't scorch their economies during 2020.

Lightsaber


This is key. The entire WFH movement is upon us. I'm looking around for a new position and I've not had one company yet tell me I have to move to their offices (I'm in Florida and not leaving Florida). Suddenly people will be free to move to small and medium cities with less crime, better schools, lower cost of living, etc. But they might be leaving family and friends and want to go back on a regular basis. I see cities like Jacksonville, FL, Austin Texas, Tuscon, AZ, Boise, ID and Reno, NV the winners in this new paradigm.


I think that analysis is spot on. It could help point to point flying in the long run.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:44 pm

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Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

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