PVD757
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:47 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Mid sized unserved markets could be good for PVD

Previously served now unserved:
PVD-RDU
PVD-CLE
PVD-PIT
PVD-BNA
PVD-MCI

Good potential
PVD-JAX (Navy connection)
PVD-ORF/PHF (navy connection and minimal service at BOS to help)
PVD-LA basin (red eye for utilization in high O&D market)


Wouldn't shock me to see PVD-LIS once the A220s come in.


We’ll take whatever they want to offer! LOL
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:00 pm

nine4nine wrote:
I love the livery, a nice deviation from euro whites. Love “EZ” highlighted in the name because that’s what this brand is centered around. The ease of using tech for the entire experience.
I wonder how long until we start hearing initial route announcements since they plan on flying before years end.


Neeleman says in the Cranky Flyer interview that they'll make route announcements after certification, and be flying 60 days later.

We'll have to see how things actually shape up, of course, but that statement at least is what we have 'from the horse's mouth.'

Livery is colorful, but still kind of bland. I'd like bolder colors, more like the splashy 70's and 80's liveries, say Hughes Airwest, PSA, United, or Braniff.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:05 pm

rbavfan wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
seat1a wrote:

Interesting list of cities. Would they fly between them or to larger markets?


I mostly see them doing routes such as SAN-PVU/RDM/BOI/SMF or ONT-BOI/PVU/RDM or OAK-SGU/AZA/RDM/PVU,etc. type routes. At the same time I could also easily see routes such FAT-PSC, PVU-SBP, etc.


SAN will be hard to get into. They expanded and already filled slots.


Here's hoping they will fly into Carlsbad-Palomar(CLD).
We're up.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:06 pm

rbavfan wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
seat1a wrote:

Interesting list of cities. Would they fly between them or to larger markets?


I mostly see them doing routes such as SAN-PVU/RDM/BOI/SMF or ONT-BOI/PVU/RDM or OAK-SGU/AZA/RDM/PVU,etc. type routes. At the same time I could also easily see routes such FAT-PSC, PVU-SBP, etc.


SAN will be hard to get into. They expanded and already filled slots.


Here's hoping they will fly into Carlsbad-Palomar(CLD).
We're up.
 
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redzeppelin
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:13 pm

There's another interview in one of the local Utah outlets: https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/2/7/2 ... t-airlines

They emphasize that Breeze is based in Utah, and will receive some tax incentives, but also it also says that Breeze won't be flying from SLC:
[quote]At this point, Neeleman said he does not anticipate Breeze will be providing service in or out of Salt Lake City International Airport, but other Utah airports may be in the running for new routes.[\quote]

At this point, I'll be shocked if Breeze doesn't fly from PVU. He also specifically called out G4's success at PVU in the Cranky Flier article.

Since the article says "airports," the next best opportunity in Utah would seem to be SGU. St. George is growing very fast, and is ready to break out of LAS's shadow with more destinations than the limited and expensive RJ services at SGU today.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:23 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
I liked MOXY better.... NOT!

It’s a competitive industry! Don’t think for a moment other airlines will stand idly by.


Kind of confused by the A220 image and the E195 E2 image, unless it is all just more marketing buzz.

Especially in view of the comments D.N. had about stripping out seats for a more premium product with the 220.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:24 pm

redzeppelin wrote:
There's another interview in one of the local Utah outlets: https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/2/7/2 ... t-airlines

They emphasize that Breeze is based in Utah, and will receive some tax incentives, but also it also says that Breeze won't be flying from SLC:
At this point, Neeleman said he does not anticipate Breeze will be providing service in or out of Salt Lake City International Airport, but other Utah airports may be in the running for new routes.[\quote]

At this point, I'll be shocked if Breeze doesn't fly from PVU. He also specifically called out G4's success at PVU in the Cranky Flier article.

Since the article says "airports," the next best opportunity in Utah would seem to be SGU. St. George is growing very fast, and is ready to break out of LAS's shadow with more destinations than the limited and expensive RJ services at SGU today.


Zion NP and North Rim of Grand Canyon to name a few nearby draws. Which brings up Flagstaff in my mind.
 
joeljack
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:34 pm

Any word on when they will be announcing their first flight routes? Summer 2020?
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:41 pm

Flagstaff is a good draw for skiing in the winter and everything else in the summer as it's elevation makes it a very unique Arizona climate.
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
UWPAviation
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:42 pm

Awesome! Very excited to see one of the start ups actually sounding like it will launch. I’ve heard them mentioned MKE a couple of times. Would be hilarious if they beat Midwest to the punch.
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:49 pm

Sounds like PVU and SGU in Utah are almost guaranteed destinations
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:52 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Flagstaff is a good draw for skiing in the winter and everything else in the summer as it's elevation makes it a very unique Arizona climate.


Plus Sedona is nearby.
 
Buffalomatt1027
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:58 pm

Breeze should be allllll over Buffalo / BNIA. The BUF-JFK route was one of the first Jetblue routes that started the airline. Needleman knows the airport and what it can provide. Also, the a220 is a perfect plane for it.
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Moxy - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:35 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:

I mostly see them doing routes such as SAN-PVU/RDM/BOI/SMF or ONT-BOI/PVU/RDM or OAK-SGU/AZA/RDM/PVU,etc. type routes. At the same time I could also easily see routes such FAT-PSC, PVU-SBP, etc.


SAN will be hard to get into. They expanded and already filled slots.


Here's hoping they will fly into Carlsbad-Palomar(CLD).


If Breeze does PVU I could easily see them doing service to SAN or CLD, ONT, AUS, Bay Area, Dallas area and maybe even down to Florida such as Orlando.
 
marcogr12
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:17 pm

He compares a lot the older E195s to the new A223 but says nothing about the E2-195 which he chose for Azul that has comparable costs to the A223..I am confused though..If he wants to start Breeze with the E195s and they are considered good for up to 2h-flights,then why didn't he go for the E2-195 for the rest of the routes? Conversely if the A223 is even better than the E2-195 why didn't he choose it for Azul?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
dstblj52
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:38 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
He compares a lot the older E195s to the new A223 but says nothing about the E2-195 which he chose for Azul that has comparable costs to the A223..I am confused though..If he wants to start Breeze with the E195s and they are considered good for up to 2h-flights,then why didn't he go for the E2-195 for the rest of the routes? Conversely if the A223 is even better than the E2-195 why didn't he choose it for Azul?

Because the E2 doesn't have the legs to do some of the longer potential routes and Azul is a Brazilian company in a market like that you're going to pick the local product if it's viable, no different then DCA routes to state capitals to keep senators and representatives happy.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:51 pm

I have to wonder if DAY is "secondary" enough to be on Breeze's radar. Lots of gate space, not a long drive from Columbus and Cincinnati, limited service to vacation destinations.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
cpl22586
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:31 pm

joeljack wrote:
Any word on when they will be announcing their first flight routes? Summer 2020?



As soon as they get their operating certificate then they will announce routes. 60 days after that they will begin flying.

Airports I would like to see in would be MHT, PWM, ISP.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:55 pm

redzeppelin wrote:
Since the article says "airports," the next best opportunity in Utah would seem to be SGU. St. George is growing very fast, and is ready to break out of LAS's shadow with more destinations than the limited and expensive RJ services at SGU today.


If Breeze wants to attempt it without UT taxpayer funding, great. IMHO the last decade has shown that little airports don't shine in the shadows of big airports: FNT/DTW, TOL/DTW, PVD/BOS, MHT/BOS... LAS is 2 hrs away by toll-free Interstate highway. People go for frequency, non-stop destination count, and number-of-carriers competition. LAS scores well by all three of those metrics.

Now, if St George thinks it can be a high desert Vail, with seasonal, maybe 1x weekly flights to select major metros, go for it.
 
tphuang
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:22 pm

heretothere wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
tphuang wrote:
https://crankyflier.com/2020/02/07/david-neelemans-new-airline-is-officially-called-breeze-heres-everything-he-told-me-about-it-across-the-aisle/

From CrankyFlier, this interview with DN is quite fascianting. On the operating side of things, he is says E195 has trip cost 15 to 20% lower than A320. That seems to match what JetBlue has told the investors, which is E90 has trip cost approximately 20% lower than A320 (i guess E95 would be slightly higher)

The part that is quit eye-dropping is what he said about A220.

I'm not sure if that's the base version or the speculated A220XLR. But SLC/DEN-OGG is already longer than the current narrowbody technology with MAX/NEO allows. The route flexibility with additional fuel tanks is pretty impressive. Basically many of the markets by A321XLR could be operated much more cheaply than A220XLR.

His total trip cost seems to good to be true. He is basically saying A321LR has a little over half of the total operating cost of A330. That I can believe. It's been mentioned many places. But he is also saying that A220's total operating cost is 50 to 60% of A321LR. Even if we assume the high end of that, it's significantly lower than what I had been estimating (about 71%). That seems too good to be true. There is no reason for anyone to operating A321XLR for long thin routes if A220XLR economics is that good.

This next point is also illustrating

JetBlue has said the same thing. Basically, E90 trip cost really goes up when it the flight time increases. To the point where a trip from BOS-AUS might have same operating cost as a A320. Not surprising that E95 would have the same issues. Also not surprising that A220 would burn 20% less fuel than E95 since JetBlue have said total operating cost of A220 is about same as E90 (I calculated it to be even lower).

Other point about the older Embraer aircraft

This part is also interesting. Sure it makes sense to start with a single fleet type. But there is no reason not to have additional fleet types if the market justify it. No need to religiously stick with one fleet type like WN.

I got to admit, I just read the article, and a lot of it seems pie in the sky. If it weren't for Neelman being behind it, I wouldn't be taking it seriously at all.


Thank you for saying it. I’m not sure he truly believes everything he’s saying, but wants to hype up the launch. To recap:

-They’re going to start by flying a plane no one wants (E95)
-They’re going to fly them in markets that nobody else has found worth trying
-They’re going to make money flying 50% LFs on less than daily routes
-They’re going to be able to profitably push the A223 beyond its current limits
-They’re going to do all this while avoiding a significant competitive response

I’m skeptical to say the least.


Can you actually dispute what is saying. The Allegiant model clearly works. SY and F9 use similar models. Also, G4 started off with an aircraft people were busy retiring. And they are the most profitable carrier in America by margins.

The last part is probably not going to happen since legacies are going to lose customers and suffer lower yield from LCCs picking off leisure demand.

As for other stuff, he was pretty clear that they are going to use E95 and A223 only on days and time of the year that can make money. Whether or not he will move away from that is a different story.

Again, if you can get aircraft for practically free, who cares that their CASM might be a little high. Compared to E75s, their CASM is great.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:29 pm

About this time a year ago MEM announced a new hangar.

https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... angar.html

That airline has yet to named a year later. I kinda thought it might be for Allegiant and a base in Memphis, but could be for Mox....errrr Breeze.
 
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leleko747
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:40 pm

I know people may have different opinions but, really... this livery is great. A metallic-looking blue jet, totally away from the minimalistic eurowhite trend we have nowadays, and people still complain (boring? lolwut. See Lufthansa's livery first). The scheme remind me of La Compagnie planes, or even some big eccentric planes used as business jets.

It seems the Breeze name and this livery will be the definite ones, Gianfranco Beting have confirmed this on his Instagram account.
I'm excited to see the first plane painted!
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
T4thH
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:58 pm

leleko747 wrote:
I know people may have different opinions but, really... this livery is great. A metallic-looking blue jet, totally away from the minimalistic eurowhite trend we have nowadays, and people still complain (boring? lolwut. See Lufthansa's livery first). The scheme remind me of La Compagnie planes, or even some big eccentric planes used as business jets.

It seems the Breeze name and this livery will be the definite ones, Gianfranco Beting have confirmed this on his Instagram account.
I'm excited to see the first plane painted!

I am not such a fan, I would state it as OK. But what is good, the livery does not look "cheap", as Spirit or (little less worse) Easyjet , Air Asia e.g. and the livery is not shouting: "Low Cost" in warning colors and big letters.
 
lx2iah
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:25 pm

After seeing the painted rendering of the aircraft...a couple of thoughts on “Breeze”...

The check mark for a logo? (Is this a check mark on the tail fin?) A check mark, checkmark or tick is a mark (✓, ✔, etc.) used (primarily in the English speaking world) to indicate the concept "yes" (e.g. "yes; this has been verified", "yes; that is the correct answer", "yes; this has been completed", or "yes; this [item or option] applies to me").

I thought they may have highlighted “ez” to possibly suggest that could be their IATA airline code, but EZ is the code for Evergreen International. That would have been cool if the name had incorporated their IATA code in the airline name because it would have been “ez” to remember. I guess “ez” (easy?) suggests it will be “ez” to book online, “ez” to “breeze” through mid-sized airports, “ez” to make changes, “ez” to check bags, “ez” to board/deplane, etc..

Does anyone else have any other ideas? This is very clever marketing if that’s how they operate their business model - with everything being “ez.”
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1457
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:28 pm

lx2iah wrote:
After seeing the painted rendering of the aircraft...a couple of thoughts on “Breeze”...

The check mark for a logo? (Is this a check mark on the tail fin?) A check mark, checkmark or tick is a mark (✓, ✔, etc.) used (primarily in the English speaking world) to indicate the concept "yes" (e.g. "yes; this has been verified", "yes; that is the correct answer", "yes; this has been completed", or "yes; this [item or option] applies to me").

I thought they may have highlighted “ez” to possibly suggest that could be their IATA airline code, but EZ is the code for Evergreen International. That would have been cool if the name had incorporated their IATA code in the airline name because it would have been “ez” to remember. I guess “ez” (easy?) suggests it will be “ez” to book online, “ez” to “breeze” through mid-sized airports, “ez” to make changes, “ez” to check bags, “ez” to board/deplane, etc..

Does anyone else have any other ideas? This is very clever marketing if that’s how they operate their business model - with everything being “ez.”


Clearly a reference to the booking app and checking off what you want after the base fare
 
lx2iah
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:33 pm

Yes, very clever marketing.
 
heretothere
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:21 pm

tphuang wrote:
heretothere wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I got to admit, I just read the article, and a lot of it seems pie in the sky. If it weren't for Neelman being behind it, I wouldn't be taking it seriously at all.


Thank you for saying it. I’m not sure he truly believes everything he’s saying, but wants to hype up the launch. To recap:

-They’re going to start by flying a plane no one wants (E95)
-They’re going to fly them in markets that nobody else has found worth trying
-They’re going to make money flying 50% LFs on less than daily routes
-They’re going to be able to profitably push the A223 beyond its current limits
-They’re going to do all this while avoiding a significant competitive response

I’m skeptical to say the least.


Can you actually dispute what is saying. The Allegiant model clearly works. SY and F9 use similar models. Also, G4 started off with an aircraft people were busy retiring. And they are the most profitable carrier in America by margins.

The last part is probably not going to happen since legacies are going to lose customers and suffer lower yield from LCCs picking off leisure demand.

As for other stuff, he was pretty clear that they are going to use E95 and A223 only on days and time of the year that can make money. Whether or not he will move away from that is a different story.

Again, if you can get aircraft for practically free, who cares that their CASM might be a little high. Compared to E75s, their CASM is great.


G4 definitely has a strong model, but they’re flying used aircraft that are 50% larger than the E95 which makes a big difference in leisure markets. And to my third point, I’ve never seen a successful G4 market with 50% LFs. F9 & SY aren’t public obviously so it’s tough to tell how well they’re doing. But SY’s CEO said this week that they aren’t growing the passenger business this year, which I think is telling regardless of the opportunities in charters and cargo. F9 on the other hand has canceled an IPO in recent years while having industry leading route turnover in their non-DEN markets.

As far as using a low utilization model, historically that hasn’t mixed well with new aircraft. We’ll have to wait and see if that’s a systemwide thing or limited to mostly E95 routes.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:23 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
I liked MOXY better.... NOT!

It’s a competition industry! Don’t think for a moment other airlines will stand idly by.


Corretc, MOXY was a LOT better. Breeze is crap. Heck, if that's what they wanted they could have at least called it ZEPHR to jazz it up.
 
tphuang
Posts: 4156
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:59 pm

heretothere wrote:
tphuang wrote:
heretothere wrote:

Thank you for saying it. I’m not sure he truly believes everything he’s saying, but wants to hype up the launch. To recap:

-They’re going to start by flying a plane no one wants (E95)
-They’re going to fly them in markets that nobody else has found worth trying
-They’re going to make money flying 50% LFs on less than daily routes
-They’re going to be able to profitably push the A223 beyond its current limits
-They’re going to do all this while avoiding a significant competitive response

I’m skeptical to say the least.


Can you actually dispute what is saying. The Allegiant model clearly works. SY and F9 use similar models. Also, G4 started off with an aircraft people were busy retiring. And they are the most profitable carrier in America by margins.

The last part is probably not going to happen since legacies are going to lose customers and suffer lower yield from LCCs picking off leisure demand.

As for other stuff, he was pretty clear that they are going to use E95 and A223 only on days and time of the year that can make money. Whether or not he will move away from that is a different story.

Again, if you can get aircraft for practically free, who cares that their CASM might be a little high. Compared to E75s, their CASM is great.


G4 definitely has a strong model, but they’re flying used aircraft that are 50% larger than the E95 which makes a big difference in leisure markets. And to my third point, I’ve never seen a successful G4 market with 50% LFs. F9 & SY aren’t public obviously so it’s tough to tell how well they’re doing. But SY’s CEO said this week that they aren’t growing the passenger business this year, which I think is telling regardless of the opportunities in charters and cargo. F9 on the other hand has canceled an IPO in recent years while having industry leading route turnover in their non-DEN markets.

As far as using a low utilization model, historically that hasn’t mixed well with new aircraft. We’ll have to wait and see if that’s a systemwide thing or limited to mostly E95 routes.

So basically, if you have fewer seat to fill like on a e95, you will be able to make even more markets work. And unlike md88, e series maintenance isn't going anywhere with all the new e75s coming online.

And he didn't say they are aiming for 50% load factor. But rather if they compete with e75 on the same route and get the same fare level, they can make it work with lower lf since the cost is essentially the same as a legacy e75.

Given his track record, they are unlikely to be targeting the bottom of barrel market.

Oh and Sy has been doing great since they abandoned the msp only model and onto a opportunistic all over the country o and d model.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:04 pm

tphuang wrote:
heretothere wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Can you actually dispute what is saying. The Allegiant model clearly works. SY and F9 use similar models. Also, G4 started off with an aircraft people were busy retiring. And they are the most profitable carrier in America by margins.

The last part is probably not going to happen since legacies are going to lose customers and suffer lower yield from LCCs picking off leisure demand.

As for other stuff, he was pretty clear that they are going to use E95 and A223 only on days and time of the year that can make money. Whether or not he will move away from that is a different story.

Again, if you can get aircraft for practically free, who cares that their CASM might be a little high. Compared to E75s, their CASM is great.


G4 definitely has a strong model, but they’re flying used aircraft that are 50% larger than the E95 which makes a big difference in leisure markets. And to my third point, I’ve never seen a successful G4 market with 50% LFs. F9 & SY aren’t public obviously so it’s tough to tell how well they’re doing. But SY’s CEO said this week that they aren’t growing the passenger business this year, which I think is telling regardless of the opportunities in charters and cargo. F9 on the other hand has canceled an IPO in recent years while having industry leading route turnover in their non-DEN markets.

As far as using a low utilization model, historically that hasn’t mixed well with new aircraft. We’ll have to wait and see if that’s a systemwide thing or limited to mostly E95 routes.

So basically, if you have fewer seat to fill like on a e95, you will be able to make even more markets work. And unlike md88, e series maintenance isn't going anywhere with all the new e75s coming online.

And he didn't say they are aiming for 50% load factor. But rather if they compete with e75 on the same route and get the same fare level, they can make it work with lower lf since the cost is essentially the same as a legacy e75.

Given his track record, they are unlikely to be targeting the bottom of barrel market.

Oh and Sy has been doing great since they abandoned the msp only model and onto a opportunistic all over the country o and d model.


If you look at where SY is doing well... there ain’t a whole lot outside of MSP that’s working.
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:33 pm

heretothere wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
tphuang wrote:
https://crankyflier.com/2020/02/07/david-neelemans-new-airline-is-officially-called-breeze-heres-everything-he-told-me-about-it-across-the-aisle/

From CrankyFlier, this interview with DN is quite fascianting. On the operating side of things, he is says E195 has trip cost 15 to 20% lower than A320. That seems to match what JetBlue has told the investors, which is E90 has trip cost approximately 20% lower than A320 (i guess E95 would be slightly higher)

The part that is quit eye-dropping is what he said about A220.

I'm not sure if that's the base version or the speculated A220XLR. But SLC/DEN-OGG is already longer than the current narrowbody technology with MAX/NEO allows. The route flexibility with additional fuel tanks is pretty impressive. Basically many of the markets by A321XLR could be operated much more cheaply than A220XLR.

His total trip cost seems to good to be true. He is basically saying A321LR has a little over half of the total operating cost of A330. That I can believe. It's been mentioned many places. But he is also saying that A220's total operating cost is 50 to 60% of A321LR. Even if we assume the high end of that, it's significantly lower than what I had been estimating (about 71%). That seems too good to be true. There is no reason for anyone to operating A321XLR for long thin routes if A220XLR economics is that good.

This next point is also illustrating

JetBlue has said the same thing. Basically, E90 trip cost really goes up when it the flight time increases. To the point where a trip from BOS-AUS might have same operating cost as a A320. Not surprising that E95 would have the same issues. Also not surprising that A220 would burn 20% less fuel than E95 since JetBlue have said total operating cost of A220 is about same as E90 (I calculated it to be even lower).

Other point about the older Embraer aircraft

This part is also interesting. Sure it makes sense to start with a single fleet type. But there is no reason not to have additional fleet types if the market justify it. No need to religiously stick with one fleet type like WN.

I got to admit, I just read the article, and a lot of it seems pie in the sky. If it weren't for Neelman being behind it, I wouldn't be taking it seriously at all.


Thank you for saying it. I’m not sure he truly believes everything he’s saying, but wants to hype up the launch. To recap:

-They’re going to start by flying a plane no one wants (E95)
-They’re going to fly them in markets that nobody else has found worth trying
-They’re going to make money flying 50% LFs on less than daily routes
-They’re going to be able to profitably push the A223 beyond its current limits
-They’re going to do all this while avoiding a significant competitive response

I’m skeptical to say the least.


Skeptical aswell. Does anyone here got some datas regarding the E95 ? How come he pull those datas when all other current operators are happy with this aircraft.
 
heretothere
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:38 pm

tphuang wrote:
heretothere wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Can you actually dispute what is saying. The Allegiant model clearly works. SY and F9 use similar models. Also, G4 started off with an aircraft people were busy retiring. And they are the most profitable carrier in America by margins.

The last part is probably not going to happen since legacies are going to lose customers and suffer lower yield from LCCs picking off leisure demand.

As for other stuff, he was pretty clear that they are going to use E95 and A223 only on days and time of the year that can make money. Whether or not he will move away from that is a different story.

Again, if you can get aircraft for practically free, who cares that their CASM might be a little high. Compared to E75s, their CASM is great.


G4 definitely has a strong model, but they’re flying used aircraft that are 50% larger than the E95 which makes a big difference in leisure markets. And to my third point, I’ve never seen a successful G4 market with 50% LFs. F9 & SY aren’t public obviously so it’s tough to tell how well they’re doing. But SY’s CEO said this week that they aren’t growing the passenger business this year, which I think is telling regardless of the opportunities in charters and cargo. F9 on the other hand has canceled an IPO in recent years while having industry leading route turnover in their non-DEN markets.

As far as using a low utilization model, historically that hasn’t mixed well with new aircraft. We’ll have to wait and see if that’s a systemwide thing or limited to mostly E95 routes.

So basically, if you have fewer seat to fill like on a e95, you will be able to make even more markets work. And unlike md88, e series maintenance isn't going anywhere with all the new e75s coming online.

And he didn't say they are aiming for 50% load factor. But rather if they compete with e75 on the same route and get the same fare level, they can make it work with lower lf since the cost is essentially the same as a legacy e75.

Given his track record, they are unlikely to be targeting the bottom of barrel market.

Oh and Sy has been doing great since they abandoned the msp only model and onto a opportunistic all over the country o and d model.


If E90/95s are actually market creators, I think we’d see fewer airlines trying to dump them. And E-jets aren’t exactly maintenance darlings from everything I’ve seen/heard.

All the Allegiant mentions by DN tell me they plan on serving the leisure passenger. And if that’s true, good luck getting legacy fares with sub-daily service.

For SY, what have you seen that indicates their non-MSP scheduled service has been successful? IMO it’s been a mixed bag at best.
 
sunking737
Posts: 1513
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:22 pm

heretothere wrote:
tphuang wrote:
heretothere wrote:

G4 definitely has a strong model, but they’re flying used aircraft that are 50% larger than the E95 which makes a big difference in leisure markets. And to my third point, I’ve never seen a successful G4 market with 50% LFs. F9 & SY aren’t public obviously so it’s tough to tell how well they’re doing. But SY’s CEO said this week that they aren’t growing the passenger business this year, which I think is telling regardless of the opportunities in charters and cargo.

Oh and Sy has been doing great since they abandoned the msp only model and onto a opportunistic all over the country o and d model.


For SY, what have you seen that indicates their non-MSP scheduled service has been successful? IMO it’s been a mixed bag at best.


For SY right now it making money taking folks from the cold north, to warm southern locations. This time of year is when the make money. Always been profitable. Yes they are running some non MSP routes but mostly is MSP flying. In April flights will shift once again
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:41 am

RL757PVD wrote:
Mid sized unserved markets could be good for PVD

Previously served now unserved:
PVD-RDU
PVD-CLE
PVD-PIT
PVD-BNA
PVD-MCI

Good potential
PVD-JAX (Navy connection)
PVD-ORF/PHF (navy connection and minimal service at BOS to help)
PVD-LA basin (red eye for utilization in high O&D market)

would PVD pull any pax out of BOS area, apart from maybe flights to LA ?
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4584
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:43 am

tphuang wrote:
heretothere wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Can you actually dispute what is saying. The Allegiant model clearly works. SY and F9 use similar models. Also, G4 started off with an aircraft people were busy retiring. And they are the most profitable carrier in America by margins.

The last part is probably not going to happen since legacies are going to lose customers and suffer lower yield from LCCs picking off leisure demand.

As for other stuff, he was pretty clear that they are going to use E95 and A223 only on days and time of the year that can make money. Whether or not he will move away from that is a different story.

Again, if you can get aircraft for practically free, who cares that their CASM might be a little high. Compared to E75s, their CASM is great.


G4 definitely has a strong model, but they’re flying used aircraft that are 50% larger than the E95 which makes a big difference in leisure markets. And to my third point, I’ve never seen a successful G4 market with 50% LFs. F9 & SY aren’t public obviously so it’s tough to tell how well they’re doing. But SY’s CEO said this week that they aren’t growing the passenger business this year, which I think is telling regardless of the opportunities in charters and cargo. F9 on the other hand has canceled an IPO in recent years while having industry leading route turnover in their non-DEN markets.

As far as using a low utilization model, historically that hasn’t mixed well with new aircraft. We’ll have to wait and see if that’s a systemwide thing or limited to mostly E95 routes.

So basically, if you have fewer seat to fill like on a e95, you will be able to make even more markets work. And unlike md88, e series maintenance isn't going anywhere with all the new e75s coming online.

And he didn't say they are aiming for 50% load factor. But rather if they compete with e75 on the same route and get the same fare level, they can make it work with lower lf since the cost is essentially the same as a legacy e75.

Given his track record, they are unlikely to be targeting the bottom of barrel market.

Oh and Sy has been doing great since they abandoned the msp only model and onto a opportunistic all over the country o and d model.


E195 cost per seat is too high to make these leisure markets work. They talk about stimulating new demand on all these routes - you cant do that with high fares, which the E195 will require because of its high seat cost.

Same reason why JetBlue is getting out of E190. Only works in business markets where it can command a high enough fare to make money. E190 kills leisure markets.
 
tphuang
Posts: 4156
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:11 am

heretothere wrote:
tphuang wrote:
heretothere wrote:

G4 definitely has a strong model, but they’re flying used aircraft that are 50% larger than the E95 which makes a big difference in leisure markets. And to my third point, I’ve never seen a successful G4 market with 50% LFs. F9 & SY aren’t public obviously so it’s tough to tell how well they’re doing. But SY’s CEO said this week that they aren’t growing the passenger business this year, which I think is telling regardless of the opportunities in charters and cargo. F9 on the other hand has canceled an IPO in recent years while having industry leading route turnover in their non-DEN markets.

As far as using a low utilization model, historically that hasn’t mixed well with new aircraft. We’ll have to wait and see if that’s a systemwide thing or limited to mostly E95 routes.

So basically, if you have fewer seat to fill like on a e95, you will be able to make even more markets work. And unlike md88, e series maintenance isn't going anywhere with all the new e75s coming online.

And he didn't say they are aiming for 50% load factor. But rather if they compete with e75 on the same route and get the same fare level, they can make it work with lower lf since the cost is essentially the same as a legacy e75.

Given his track record, they are unlikely to be targeting the bottom of barrel market.

Oh and Sy has been doing great since they abandoned the msp only model and onto a opportunistic all over the country o and d model.


If E90/95s are actually market creators, I think we’d see fewer airlines trying to dump them. And E-jets aren’t exactly maintenance darlings from everything I’ve seen/heard.

All the Allegiant mentions by DN tell me they plan on serving the leisure passenger. And if that’s true, good luck getting legacy fares with sub-daily service.

For SY, what have you seen that indicates their non-MSP scheduled service has been successful? IMO it’s been a mixed bag at best.


A lot of LCCs have gone in the new A320 or 737 route when they start service. G4 has shown you can be successful using old used aircraft that no one wants, because acquisition cost is basically 0. There is no reason to believe that E90/95 CASM won't be alot better than the E75 that are everywhere for the legacy carriers. And there is no reason to believe E90 maintenance cost will necessarily be higher than E75.

I don't think G4/F9 necessarily get lower fares with their subdaily service than NK with their daily service. ULCC just get lower fare due to their bare bone model and their inferior product.

Based on what he described here, Breeze is definitely not going for the lowest product level. It will have first class. It will have free wifi, more comfortable seating than most airlines. I mean 145 seats on A220-300 is going to a pretty comfortable configuration. Azul has a very comfortable configuration with its E series aircraft and it doesn't seem like they will change it much for Breeze. So maybe it won't get legacy fares. But there is a lot of markets there that could get decent yield at the right season at right frequency.

With E95 and A220-300, they could have a combination that opens door for a lot of market that F9 or G4 can't serve right now because either A320 don't have the range or have too many seats.

It's a lot different trying to fill 128 or 145 seat vs 180 seat A320 or 230 seat A321.

We will see what they do at the end. JetBlue started off being a JFK focused airline with a lot of O&D focus city action. Breeze won't get a goldmine like JFK slots to start off. But let's see what kind of focus city strategy they come up with. There is a lot of market in the middle of hte country where legacies only offer hub service and LCCs have aircraft that simply have too much capacity for a lot of the routes.

Remember a new airline will start off with really low cost.
heavymetal wrote:

E195 cost per seat is too high to make these leisure markets work. They talk about stimulating new demand on all these routes - you cant do that with high fares, which the E195 will require because of its high seat cost.

Same reason why JetBlue is getting out of E190. Only works in business markets where it can command a high enough fare to make money. E190 kills leisure markets.


E90 will stick around with JetBlue a lot longer than people think. The lease rate on E90 will be next to 0 by the time they are ready to dump it. And E90 trip cost is low enough for these short haul shuttle routes that you really don't need to stick A220 in there. Sure, the trip cost of E90 and A220 is about the same. So if the route only can fill 70 passengers per flight, it doesn't make a lot of sense to stick a A220 there.

As for stimulating demand with high fares, you can definitely do that with LCC cost and also O&D traffic vs connection itinerary. Let me give you an example here.

Let's look at BOS-MEM. A market that have let's say 120 to 140 PDEW a day with average fare of $250 through connections on legacy carriers. With LCC cost, they can make the market profitable with 85% LF at $110 average fare + $50 ancillary revenue. Now on peak days of MTFSu, there might be 150 PDEW at average fare of $250. If fare go down to $120, maybe that will increase the demand to 200 PDEW on peak days. Now if you serve it with E95, you can get 85% LF with 105 to 100 passengers and still leave 100 passengers that travel via legacies or WN because are loyal to their airlines.

Now if they try to do this with 180 seat A320 on NK everyday. This is a lot harder to work. They'd have to discount to like $75 average fare.
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: Official: Moxy Becomes Breeze Airways (Livery Photos)

Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:17 am

Jamake1 wrote:
I think this is exciting.
yes WOW just WOW

500 city pairs !!!

It's a Breeze with Breeze !!!

What are PDEWs ?
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: Official: Moxy Becomes Breeze Airways (Livery Photos)

Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:21 am

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Astrojet727 wrote:
Sponsored by Degree for Men®

Was hoping for a Unilever sponsorship for that catchy 'By Mennen' jingle.

It's recognizable and clever... as in it's a breeze... love the way they highlight the EZ as in it's easy. I imagine you will book a flight on the web and 'Check Off' your options and adders.... Very clever marketing. It's actually quite amazing no one has capitalized on flying is a breeze before this....

not super fond of the dark silver paint as I picture the finish looking quite worn in a few years.... however, being it's the startup E195s being painted, they'll be replaced by the A220s before the paint dulls out too much. I imagine we will see a slightly evolved livery when the A220s launch....

jetBlue, Azul, We should have counted on the accent color being blue....

Good on David... Now get that airline flying out of TUS or HMO! :D

Peter
E ZEEE works in USA, but rest of english speaking world it's E ZED
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:27 am

.[/quote]

Thank you for saying it. I’m not sure he truly believes everything he’s saying, but wants to hype up the launch. To recap:

-They’re going to start by flying a plane no one wants (E95)
-They’re going to fly them in markets that nobody else has found worth trying
-They’re going to make money flying 50% LFs on less than daily routes
-They’re going to be able to profitably push the A223 beyond its current limits
-They’re going to do all this while avoiding a significant competitive response

I’m skeptical to say the least.[/quote]
to your points above

1. it sounds like he'll be getting the E95s a lot cheaper than anyone else (& from AZUL which he has interests in, so who knows what sort of crazy deal Breeze will be getting on these)
2. cos think markets don't work with B737s or A319s
3. 50% load factors - doubt that - that comment might just be to scare the opposition. Hubs will lose market share to some degree, as well as stimulating the new markets
4. extra fuel tanks ?
5. Apart from Delta with their A220s who else can respond, except with bottom feeder fares thru hubs ?
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:45 am

heretothere wrote:
tphuang wrote:
heretothere wrote:

G4 definitely has a strong model, but they’re flying used aircraft that are 50% larger than the E95 which makes a big difference in leisure markets. And to my third point, I’ve never seen a successful G4 market with 50% LFs. F9 & SY aren’t public obviously so it’s tough to tell how well they’re doing. But SY’s CEO said this week that they aren’t growing the passenger business this year, which I think is telling regardless of the opportunities in charters and cargo. F9 on the other hand has canceled an IPO in recent years while having industry leading route turnover in their non-DEN markets.

As far as using a low utilization model, historically that hasn’t mixed well with new aircraft. We’ll have to wait and see if that’s a systemwide thing or limited to mostly E95 routes.

So basically, if you have fewer seat to fill like on a e95, you will be able to make even more markets work. And unlike md88, e series maintenance isn't going anywhere with all the new e75s coming online.

And he didn't say they are aiming for 50% load factor. But rather if they compete with e75 on the same route and get the same fare level, they can make it work with lower lf since the cost is essentially the same as a legacy e75.

Given his track record, they are unlikely to be targeting the bottom of barrel market.

Oh and Sy has been doing great since they abandoned the msp only model and onto a opportunistic all over the country o and d model.


If E90/95s are actually market creators, I think we’d see fewer airlines trying to dump them. And E-jets aren’t exactly maintenance darlings from everything I’ve seen/heard.

All the Allegiant mentions by DN tell me they plan on serving the leisure passenger. And if that’s true, good luck getting legacy fares with sub-daily service.

For SY, what have you seen that indicates their non-MSP scheduled service has been successful? IMO it’s been a mixed *bag at best.


No one is the US flys E195s at 122 seats which is what DN said with new slimline seats they would gain over the 118 Azul config but with the same pitch.
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:48 am

T4thH wrote:
leleko747 wrote:
I know people may have different opinions but, really... this livery is great. A metallic-looking blue jet, totally away from the minimalistic eurowhite trend we have nowadays, and people still complain (boring? lolwut. See Lufthansa's livery first). The scheme remind me of La Compagnie planes, or even some big eccentric planes used as business jets.

It seems the Breeze name and this livery will be the definite ones, Gianfranco Beting have confirmed this on his Instagram account.
I'm excited to see the first plane painted!

I am not such a fan, I would state it as OK. But what is good, the livery does not look "cheap", as Spirit or (little less worse) Easyjet , Air Asia e.g. and the livery is not shouting: "Low Cost" in warning colors and big letters.
is it going to be low cost or lower cost or similar cost but far more convenient?

Do livery/colours make any difference to whether people fly them ?

Look if want to go from A to B & can go nonstop for same price as going via a hub, who'd fly via a hub ? Even if nonstop frequency was not that often you still might try to plan your trip around nonstop times. U.S. hubs are one huge mess & getting worse
 
PVD757
Posts: 3275
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:48 am

lessredtape wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Mid sized unserved markets could be good for PVD

Previously served now unserved:
PVD-RDU
PVD-CLE
PVD-PIT
PVD-BNA
PVD-MCI

Good potential
PVD-JAX (Navy connection)
PVD-ORF/PHF (navy connection and minimal service at BOS to help)
PVD-LA basin (red eye for utilization in high O&D market)

would PVD pull any pax out of BOS area, apart from maybe flights to LA ?

They really don’t need to technically. If they could keep even just a percentage of people who are closer to PVD from going to BOS, they could fill plenty of flights. PVD’s MSA is big enough in and of itself to support plenty more service. Add in eastern CT and the Cape and it’s even more. If the product, fares, and schedule are good than the many people outside of the 128/95 or even the 495 corridor would prefer PVD.
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:10 am

PVD757 wrote:
lessredtape wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Mid sized unserved markets could be good for PVD

Previously served now unserved:
PVD-RDU
PVD-CLE
PVD-PIT
PVD-BNA
PVD-MCI

Good potential
PVD-JAX (Navy connection)
PVD-ORF/PHF (navy connection and minimal service at BOS to help)
PVD-LA basin (red eye for utilization in high O&D market)

would PVD pull any pax out of BOS area, apart from maybe flights to LA ?

They really don’t need to technically. If they could keep even just a percentage of people who are closer to PVD from going to BOS, they could fill plenty of flights. PVD’s MSA is big enough in and of itself to support plenty more service. Add in eastern CT and the Cape and it’s even more. If the product, fares, and schedule are good than the many people outside of the 128/95 or even the 495 corridor would prefer PVD.
fair enough. Sounds a bit like Brisbane basin (BNE). Within an hour a a bit of BNE International we have OOL south & MCY north.

Although we have nowhere near the population of U.S. or the number of airports, if you lived ½ way between BNE & OOL or BNE & MCY, OOL & MCY would be preferable.
 
DCAfan
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:47 am

I would like this concept if the fleet plan was based on the E175-e2 rather than the A220-300.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:15 am

DCAfan wrote:
I would like this concept if the fleet plan was based on the E175-e2 rather than the A220-300.

The capital and operating costs of a 175E2 and A223 aren’t all that different, and the CASM of the 223 likely blows the 175E2 away with 40-60 extra seats. But the range of the A223 will allow a lot of city pairs that the 175E2 can’t make, and it has a larger cabin that allow for lie flat/premium opportunities a 175 probably couldn’t accommodate. I’m quite sure given Neeleman’s affinity for embraer he looked at E2s of all sizes.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:04 pm

I am for entrepreneurial spirit, but that doesn't mean this is going to be very "nice." While linking secondary cities to secondary cities is cool, I don't see how Breeze is anything unique or has any goals that some legacies haven't already attained. Hiring a low-cost worforce to undermine the decades of hardwork and higher wages this industry as a whole can now afford will put Breeze at a disadvantage. Its own employees will prove this at some point. Mr. Neeleman has an incredible spirit, but I just wish he would go back to JetBlue and fix over there instead.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:38 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Hiring a low-cost worforce to undermine the decades of hardwork and higher wages this industry as a whole can now afford will put Breeze at a disadvantage. Its own employees will prove this at some point.


This will be the one and only advantage he will have for the first few years. Raking in revenue on the backs of a new low paid workforce.

Consider this DN quote from one of the articles:

“It’s not like a 74-seat airplane that’s a scope airplane like the 175. It’s a fine airplane, but it’s not optimally sized for CASM because their pilots make the same, their maintenance is the same. Their capital cost isn’t more, burns a little less fuel because it’s lighter but they have basically 50 less seats than we do. That allows us to charge lower fares and stimulate the market.”


So with a brand new airline with no unions or scope, he can pay pilots regional 76 seat rates to fly E195s with 130ish seats that no established airline would be allowed to do with its Pilots. Plenty of desperate regional pilots will take the bait because the 6th level of hell is a degree cooler than the 7th right?

It will be worse down the food chain. Mostly all contracted out lowest common denominator gate agents and ground ops, and FAs tricked into 15 dollars a block hour, awful work rules and forced to live with 40 roommates in some slum 5 bus stop changes from EWR or where ever, all in the name of being part of something "special and new" and "a glamorous" lifestyle.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:54 pm

There is no doubt in my mind that Breeze will be a success. Neeleman is a genius in terms of creating successful airlines. I do suspect that Breeze will take advantage of the smaller airports, but I also see them flying larger markets as well. Whatever happens, I know I want in on their IPO when that happens.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:32 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Hiring a low-cost worforce to undermine the decades of hardwork and higher wages this industry as a whole can now afford will put Breeze at a disadvantage. Its own employees will prove this at some point.


This will be the one and only advantage he will have for the first few years. Raking in revenue on the backs of a new low paid workforce.

Consider this DN quote from one of the articles:

“It’s not like a 74-seat airplane that’s a scope airplane like the 175. It’s a fine airplane, but it’s not optimally sized for CASM because their pilots make the same, their maintenance is the same. Their capital cost isn’t more, burns a little less fuel because it’s lighter but they have basically 50 less seats than we do. That allows us to charge lower fares and stimulate the market.”


So with a brand new airline with no unions or scope, he can pay pilots regional 76 seat rates to fly E195s with 130ish seats that no established airline would be allowed to do with its Pilots. Plenty of desperate regional pilots will take the bait because the 6th level of hell is a degree cooler than the 7th right?

It will be worse down the food chain. Mostly all contracted out lowest common denominator gate agents and ground ops, and FAs tricked into 15 dollars a block hour, awful work rules and forced to live with 40 roommates in some slum 5 bus stop changes from EWR or where ever, all in the name of being part of something "special and new" and "a glamorous" lifestyle.



I agree. Free-market is good, and I am all for it, but it doesn't mean that new is good and business-sustainable. For this to work Breeze truly needs to stick profitably between secondary airports, which will give it the best chance of survival. If not it will be just any other carrier without much arsenal.
 
DCAfan
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:00 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
DCAfan wrote:
I would like this concept if the fleet plan was based on the E175-e2 rather than the A220-300.

The capital and operating costs of a 175E2 and A223 aren’t all that different, and the CASM of the 223 likely blows the 175E2 away with 40-60 extra seats. But the range of the A223 will allow a lot of city pairs that the 175E2 can’t make, and it has a larger cabin that allow for lie flat/premium opportunities a 175 probably couldn’t accommodate. I’m quite sure given Neeleman’s affinity for embraer he looked at E2s of all sizes.


Keep in mind the E175-e2 is configured at 88 seats at 31 inch pitch. For markets out of PVD, for example, I believe the A220-300 would be too large for poorly served secondary city-pairs.

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