Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
holeham
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:06 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
avi8 wrote:
How about TPA/MCO-BOS? They are logical adds in my opinion and don't know why WN never flew those routes. B6 had the BOS-TPA route for themselves for a while and then DL jumped in with 2 daily flights and now going up to 3.

With DL, B6 and NK all serving the market with up to 9 flights as day Southwest is probably like “what’s the point?”.

because they'd get killed on that route. Same reason, they don't try EWR-TPA and cut EWR-MCO down to once daily. DL is not doing so hot on those 2 routes either btw.


I guess I'm confused. If Delta is not doing well on the TPA-BOS market why are they adding a third flight?
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 454
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:41 pm

holeham wrote:
tphuang wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
With DL, B6 and NK all serving the market with up to 9 flights as day Southwest is probably like “what’s the point?”.

because they'd get killed on that route. Same reason, they don't try EWR-TPA and cut EWR-MCO down to once daily. DL is not doing so hot on those 2 routes either btw.


I guess I'm confused. If Delta is not doing well on the TPA-BOS market why are they adding a third flight?

They are doing well on BOS-TPA. If they weren’t it wouldn’t be increased to 3x daily.
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
tphuang
Posts: 5460
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:13 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
holeham wrote:
tphuang wrote:
because they'd get killed on that route. Same reason, they don't try EWR-TPA and cut EWR-MCO down to once daily. DL is not doing so hot on those 2 routes either btw.


I guess I'm confused. If Delta is not doing well on the TPA-BOS market why are they adding a third flight?

They are doing well on BOS-TPA. If they weren’t it wouldn’t be increased to 3x daily.

Because they are in the growth phase at bos and willing to take some initial losses on a route with good demand. They had lower load factor in q4 and q1 and lower average fares than b6. Not great when you have 25% higher cost.

They are obviously hoping that with better schedule and more time in the market, they will yield higher.
 
WNflyer1523
Topic Author
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:25 pm

jplatts wrote:
MSN is going to be announcing a new airline and 2 new nonstop routes next week, and WN starting service out of MSN is a possibility since WN is going to be extending its schedule next week on 6/28. The upcoming MSN announcement is being discussed at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1383559&start=50#p20503261.

I highly doubt it'll be WN, however if it was, I could see those 2 destinations being MCO and LAS/DEN.
When WN enters a new city, most (if not all) of the time, they don't start with just 2 destinations.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:25 pm

The first 737 MAX 7 planes will be starting service with WN in early 2019. WN will likely be announcing the initial 737 MAX 7 routes in this schedule announcement, and DAL-HOU will likely be one of the first routes that WN operates the 737 MAX 7 on.
 
User avatar
piedmontf284000
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:00 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:18 pm

Enilria announced in his weekly post that UA would start daily service to BZE and SJO from ORD starting in January. I am wondering if WN is going to be offering BZE and SJO service from MDW in the extension announcement and UA felt need to up the weekly service.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:46 pm

Will WN add RIC-DEN nonstop service? Greater Richmond is the largest U.S. metro area that doesn't currently have any nonstop service to DEN on any LCC's, and F9 has never served RIC. RIC is also one of the few remaining destinations in the contiguous U.S. that WN could add nonstop service to out of DEN that isn't in competition with current or already announced F9 nonstop service.

In addition, WN could also add RIC-MDW, RIC-LAS, and RIC-TPA nonstop service. RIC is in a big enough market to support nonstop service to more than just ATL on WN, and WN also already has daily nonstop service to at least 7 destinations from some other markets in the contiguous U.S. that are similar in size to RIC such as BHM, BUF, BDL, SDF, MSY, and OKC.

While WN already has nonstop service to most of the destinations in the contiguous U.S. that will be served nonstop from DEN on WN, WN could also add DEN-CLT, DEN-DSM, DEN-PAE, and DEN-ICT nonstop service, and WN could also bring back DEN-BUF nonstop service.

Will WN be announcing any new nonstop routes out of DEN in this schedule extension?
Last edited by jplatts on Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
WNflyer1523
Topic Author
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Enilria announced in his weekly post that UA would start daily service to BZE and SJO from ORD starting in January. I am wondering if WN is going to be offering BZE and SJO service from MDW in the extension announcement and UA felt need to up the weekly service.

I don't know. It might be kinda risky to try and launch a fully loaded 737 from a 6,500 foot runway, especially in bad winter weather.
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1405
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:08 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
Well unfortunately what I hope to see is not what I expect to see.
As you mentioned, seasonal increases to warm destinations will appear. I think the next release covering S19 will have Hawaiian routes.
My forecast:
Hawaii - 2019
Redeye flights - 2020
Canada - 2021
South America - 2022
Europe - 2025


To maximize aircraft utilization, I think with the Hawaii announcement so will be the first redeye flights.
 
timberwolf24
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:38 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:22 pm

Rumor has it, MDW-DSM and MDW-IAD to be resumed.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:41 pm

timberwolf24 wrote:
Rumor has it, MDW-DSM and MDW-IAD to be resumed.


I agree that WN could bring back nonstop service to IAD out of MDW. In addition, WN could also add IAD-LAX, IAD-OAK, and IAD-SJC nonstop service in order to better compete against AS in California. Many of the high-tech businesses in the Washington, DC area are also closer to IAD than to BWI or DCA, and WN could add IAD-SJC, IAD-AUS, and IAD-RDU nonstop service since SJC, AUS, and RDU are also located in major high-tech corridors.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:45 am

WNflyer1523 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
MSN is going to be announcing a new airline and 2 new nonstop routes next week, and WN starting service out of MSN is a possibility since WN is going to be extending its schedule next week on 6/28. The upcoming MSN announcement is being discussed at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1383559&start=50#p20503261.

I highly doubt it'll be WN, however if it was, I could see those 2 destinations being MCO and LAS/DEN.
When WN enters a new city, most (if not all) of the time, they don't start with just 2 destinations.


It is not necessarily unusual for WN to start service out of a new airport with nonstop service to only 1 or 2 destinations as WN started service out of some airports such as BOS, CVG, DAL, HOU, LGB, MSP, LGA, and SAT with nonstop service to only 1 or 2 destinations initially. WN started service out of MSP with only nonstop service to MDW initially, but added nonstop service to DEN out of MSP soon after starting service out of MSP. WN also started service out of BOS, LGA, and CVG with only nonstop service to BWI and MDW initially, but WN has since added additional nonstop routes out of both BOS and LGA. WN will also be starting CVG-DEN nonstop service in 6 weeks from now.
 
smokeybandit
Posts: 1409
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:55 am

jplatts wrote:
timberwolf24 wrote:
Rumor has it, MDW-DSM and MDW-IAD to be resumed.


I agree that WN could bring back nonstop service to IAD out of MDW. In addition, WN could also add IAD-LAX, IAD-OAK, and IAD-SJC nonstop service in order to better compete against AS in California. Many of the high-tech businesses in the Washington, DC area are also closer to IAD than to BWI or DCA, and WN could add IAD-SJC, IAD-AUS, and IAD-RDU nonstop service since SJC, AUS, and RDU are also located in major high-tech corridors.


There's plenty of high tech companies within a few miles of BWI with NSA being there.
 
flyaustralian12
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:54 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:04 am

although DEN & EGE are roughly 2.5 hours drive apart, surely if WN started to fly into EGE from various parts of USA, they could easily make money, as fares seem very high.

Eg. LAX/EGE/LAX - only 1 flight a day nonstop from around mid Dec-early April & fares are very high. It wouldn't even need to be daily initially. Get the impression, that Fri & Sun flights are the most popular.

EGE never seems to be congested, but does have some weather delays in winter & is a very user friendly airport, unlike crazy DEN.
 
User avatar
piedmontf284000
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:00 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:42 am

WNflyer1523 wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
Enilria announced in his weekly post that UA would start daily service to BZE and SJO from ORD starting in January. I am wondering if WN is going to be offering BZE and SJO service from MDW in the extension announcement and UA felt need to up the weekly service.

I don't know. It might be kinda risky to try and launch a fully loaded 737 from a 6,500 foot runway, especially in bad winter weather.


Southwest already does SJU n/s from MDW which is 2057 miles. BZE is 1671 miles, which is far less; SJO is 2190 miles, which is not a whole lot more. It's definitely doable. Weight isn't the issue. Demand is.
 
dolphinflyer
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 9:57 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:58 am

jplatts wrote:
timberwolf24 wrote:
Rumor has it, MDW-DSM and MDW-IAD to be resumed.


I agree that WN could bring back nonstop service to IAD out of MDW. In addition, WN could also add IAD-LAX, IAD-OAK, and IAD-SJC nonstop service in order to better compete against AS in California. Many of the high-tech businesses in the Washington, DC area are also closer to IAD than to BWI or DCA, and WN could add IAD-SJC, IAD-AUS, and IAD-RDU nonstop service since SJC, AUS, and RDU are also located in major high-tech corridors.


Could, could, could! People, we're talking about a schedule release for Jan/Feb 2019. It's the middle of winter. Where is the logical strategy in WN adding any flights ex-IAD unless they were to Florida during that time of year. Jplatts conveys zero strategic thinking in his posts. They're just a series of random and incoherent darts against the wall.
 
phllax
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:48 am

timberwolf24 wrote:
Rumor has it, MDW-DSM and MDW-IAD to be resumed.


I highly doubt MDW-DSM will return. They're getting better loads on DSM-STL and more local pax too. DSM-Chicago is over saturated between AA's large RJ's and United's mix of mainline and Express.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:24 am

dolphinflyer wrote:
Could, could, could! People, we're talking about a schedule release for Jan/Feb 2019. It's the middle of winter. Where is the logical strategy in WN adding any flights ex-IAD unless they were to Florida during that time of year.


I mentioned WN possibly adding LAX-IAD, OAK-IAD, and SJC-IAD nonstop service because WN has recently been expanding in California in order to better compete against AS in California and because IAD is served nonstop out of LAX and SFO on AS and UA whereas WN doesn't currently serve IAD nonstop from LAX, SFO, OAK, or SJC. WN also will have room to add more flights out of LAX in 2019 since Terminal 1 renovations at LAX will be complete by the end of this year.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:28 am

phllax wrote:
timberwolf24 wrote:
Rumor has it, MDW-DSM and MDW-IAD to be resumed.


I highly doubt MDW-DSM will return. They're getting better loads on DSM-STL and more local pax too. DSM-Chicago is over saturated between AA's large RJ's and United's mix of mainline and Express.


WN currently serves ALB, BHM, BUF, CLT, CVG, GRR, SDF, MHT, ORF, and PVD nonstop from MDW but not from STL, and there are some connections that can be made at MDW that cannot be made at STL on WN. While I agree that WN is unlikely to bring back MDW-DSM nonstop service, WN would be able to connect passengers to additional destinations through MDW from DSM if WN brought back DSM-MDW nonstop service.
 
dolphinflyer
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 9:57 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:12 pm

jplatts wrote:
dolphinflyer wrote:
Could, could, could! People, we're talking about a schedule release for Jan/Feb 2019. It's the middle of winter. Where is the logical strategy in WN adding any flights ex-IAD unless they were to Florida during that time of year.


I mentioned WN possibly adding LAX-IAD, OAK-IAD, and SJC-IAD nonstop service because WN has recently been expanding in California in order to better compete against AS in California and because IAD is served nonstop out of LAX and SFO on AS and UA whereas WN doesn't currently serve IAD nonstop from LAX, SFO, OAK, or SJC. WN also will have room to add more flights out of LAX in 2019 since Terminal 1 renovations at LAX will be complete by the end of this year.


Again, you don't add new transcon flights in the middle of winter! It's the wrong season to launch such a service. You need to understand the concept of seasonality. Not all traffic demand is created equal.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:14 pm

dolphinflyer wrote:
Again, you don't add new transcon flights in the middle of winter! It's the wrong season to launch such a service. You need to understand the concept of seasonality. Not all traffic demand is created equal.


I agree that WN might not be adding LAX-IAD, OAK-IAD, and SJC-IAD nonstop service in Thursday's schedule extension, but I mentioned these routes since WN could announce nonstop service to California destinations out of IAD either later this year or early next year in order to better compete against AS in California. I also agree that the wintertime is the wrong season for WN to be starting service to IAD out of LAX, OAK, and SJC.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3597
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:35 pm

jplatts wrote:
dolphinflyer wrote:
Again, you don't add new transcon flights in the middle of winter! It's the wrong season to launch such a service. You need to understand the concept of seasonality. Not all traffic demand is created equal.


I agree that WN might not be adding LAX-IAD, OAK-IAD, and SJC-IAD nonstop service in Thursday's schedule extension, but I mentioned these routes since WN could announce nonstop service to California destinations out of IAD either later this year or early next year in order to better compete against AS in California. I also agree that the wintertime is the wrong season for WN to be starting service to IAD out of LAX, OAK, and SJC.


We are talking about this extension (the title of the thread). Not later this year or next year.
 
jbmitt
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:59 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:49 pm

phllax wrote:
timberwolf24 wrote:
Rumor has it, MDW-DSM and MDW-IAD to be resumed.


I highly doubt MDW-DSM will return. They're getting better loads on DSM-STL and more local pax too. DSM-Chicago is over saturated between AA's large RJ's and United's mix of mainline and Express.


I could see WN adding back DSM - MDW flights, if they are serious about the station. Iowa and especially Des Moines economy is strong. The challenge they had for a while is that the only flights offered were for early departures or late arrivals to your destination.

STL can handle most of the connecting traffic to larger cities, and fulfills a connection to a city that isn’t easily driven. MDW would offer connections not available via STL. I think the key to re-offering MDW is for WN to price it to encourage o/d traffic or higher margin connecting traffic.

I think the flight to LAS has done well, PHX is offered again and those add popular options for flyers. They probably need 5+ flights a day to steal people from UA, DL, AA.

The only other stuff I could see them add would be DEN. Possibly weekend or seasonal service to MCO and LAX. If they could push F9 off routes, they should be ok.

I think WN at DSM is almost big enough to be successful. People there now know about them, like the pricing and free bags, and just need a few more options with timing and destinations to shift from other airlines.
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:50 pm

DAL-MSP more than once a week would be nice. lol
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:09 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
DAL-MSP more than once a week would be nice. lol


Yep. Is it gates at DAL, gates at MSP, or both? I would think DAL and LAS should work well for them at MSP.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:14 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
DAL-MSP more than once a week would be nice. lol


Yep. Is it gates at DAL, gates at MSP, or both? I would think DAL and LAS should work well for them at MSP.


WN currently operates out of gates H10, H11, H12, H13, and H14. WN currently does only 25 departures a day out of MSP, and WN does have enough room at MSP to add another 20 to 25 additional flights a day if other airlines aren't using the 5 gates that WN is operating out of. Do any carriers other than WN operate out of gates H10-H14 at MSP, or is WN currently the only carrier operating out of these 5 gates?

There are at least 6 airports, including AUS, BUR, DAL, MCI, LAX, and SJC, where WN does an average of at least 10 departures per gate per day. While WN has limited room to expand at DAL, WN probably does have enough room to add DAL-MSP nonstop service since WN could probably drop one of the 7 DAL-MCI nonstops if WN adds DAL-MSP nonstop service. WN also does more flights per day per gate at AUS, LAX, and SJC than it does at DAL.
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:13 am

jplatts wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
DAL-MSP more than once a week would be nice. lol


Yep. Is it gates at DAL, gates at MSP, or both? I would think DAL and LAS should work well for them at MSP.


WN currently operates out of gates H10, H11, H12, H13, and H14. WN currently does only 25 departures a day out of MSP, and WN does have enough room at MSP to add another 20 to 25 additional flights a day if other airlines aren't using the 5 gates that WN is operating out of. Do any carriers other than WN operate out of gates H10-H14 at MSP, or is WN currently the only carrier operating out of these 5 gates?

There are at least 6 airports, including AUS, BUR, DAL, MCI, LAX, and SJC, where WN does an average of at least 10 departures per gate per day. While WN has limited room to expand at DAL, WN probably does have enough room to add DAL-MSP nonstop service since WN could probably drop one of the 7 DAL-MCI nonstops if WN adds DAL-MSP nonstop service. WN also does more flights per day per gate at AUS, LAX, and SJC than it does at DAL.


You don’t need to quote me all the numbers. Here’s the deal. The gates are not full all day long, but for the times they are not utilized, WN doesn’t want to run flights due to low peak times of day. In other words, it’s fairly banked early in the day
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:51 am

There might be enough demand for WN to add seasonal nonstop service to RSW from LAX, OAK, and PHX since there is a significant amount of travel to RSW from Greater Los Angeles, the San Francisco Bay Area, and Greater Phoenix during the winter time. According to the DOT Domestic Consumer Airfare Report, there was an average of 224 passengers a day traveling between Greater Los Angeles and RSW in Q1 2017, an average of 167 passengers a day traveling between the San Francisco Bay Area and RSW in Q1 2017, and an average of 164 passengers a day traveling between Greater Phoenix and RSW in Q1 2017.

There is also currently no nonstop service to RSW from LAX, SFO, OAK, SJC, or PHX on any airline (even on a seasonal basis), and WN would also be able to connect passengers to RSW from California destinations through PHX if WN added PHX-RSW nonstop service.
 
evank516
Posts: 2170
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:36 pm

jplatts wrote:
There might be enough demand for WN to add seasonal nonstop service to RSW from LAX, OAK, and PHX since there is a significant amount of travel to RSW from Greater Los Angeles, the San Francisco Bay Area, and Greater Phoenix during the winter time. According to the DOT Domestic Consumer Airfare Report, there was an average of 224 passengers a day traveling between Greater Los Angeles and RSW in Q1 2017, an average of 167 passengers a day traveling between the San Francisco Bay Area and RSW in Q1 2017, and an average of 164 passengers a day traveling between Greater Phoenix and RSW in Q1 2017.

There is also currently no nonstop service to RSW from LAX, SFO, OAK, SJC, or PHX on any airline (even on a seasonal basis), and WN would also be able to connect passengers to RSW from California destinations through PHX if WN added PHX-RSW nonstop service.


There are no flights between RSW and these cities out west because there's not enough demand. RSW attacts people from the Midwest, Great Lakes, and Northeast seeking an escape from the cold weather. People out west go to SoCal, Cabo, or Hawaii for the most part. There's no real tie to RSW for them. RSW also isn't THAT big of a station for WN like TPA is.
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6691
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:43 pm

ROC - FLL ? Everytime I hope... I don't understand why we don't have even a seasonal Saturday flight. Every other major NY airport has a flight to S Florida but us.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
cschleic
Posts: 1818
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:17 pm

stlgph wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
Maybe we can just post links to the last several "what will the new Southwest schedule bring" threads and save time? ;-)


nah, this quarter I'm going with Corpus Christi to Spokane!

:0


Good one! Are they ever going to add more flights from Corpus Christi to...anywhere?
 
SyracuseAvGeek
Posts: 648
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:22 pm

United_fan wrote:
ROC - FLL ? Everytime I hope... I don't understand why we don't have even a seasonal Saturday flight. Every other major NY airport has a flight to S Florida but us.


What do you count as S. Florida? Because ROC already has service to Orlando, Tampa and Punta Gorda.
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6691
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:55 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
United_fan wrote:
ROC - FLL ? Everytime I hope... I don't understand why we don't have even a seasonal Saturday flight. Every other major NY airport has a flight to S Florida but us.


What do you count as S. Florida? Because ROC already has service to Orlando, Tampa and Punta Gorda.

FLL /MIA/PBI
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
Balloonchaser
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:23 pm

ISP-LAS, ISP-DEN, ISP-MDW, ISP-HOU :P
 
bobd6
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:33 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:26 pm

jplatts wrote:
timberwolf24 wrote:
Rumor has it, MDW-DSM and MDW-IAD to be resumed.

Many of the high-tech businesses in the Washington, DC area are also closer to IAD than to BWI or DCA


my experience of going to the high tech corridor a few miles east of IAD is that it was no quicker than going to DCA. At DCA you return your rental car, walk 10 mins to security and thru "A gate" security that is always a breeze and be in the gate fast,

whereas IAD is return rental car -> wait for shuttle bus -> get in one of 2 security lines that covers the entire airport -> wait a while while all the international travelers figure out how to do TSA -> wait for transit -> ride transit , walk from transit to B gates ...
 
alggag
Posts: 436
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:34 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:15 am

cschleic wrote:
stlgph wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
Maybe we can just post links to the last several "what will the new Southwest schedule bring" threads and save time? ;-)


nah, this quarter I'm going with Corpus Christi to Spokane!

:0


Good one! Are they ever going to add more flights from Corpus Christi to...anywhere?


CRP should be happy to have the little bit of WN service that they do have to HOU and I think the fact that they are a legacy station from WN's early days are about the only thing keeping it alive. Aren't they perpetually close to last place in terms of load factors?
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:31 am

alggag wrote:
CRP should be happy to have the little bit of WN service that they do have to HOU and I think the fact that they are a legacy station from WN's early days are about the only thing keeping it alive. Aren't they perpetually close to last place in terms of load factors?


GSP is currently the only WN destination in the contiguous U.S. that has less demand for WN service than CRP does. WN still continues to serve CRP because CRP is one of the legacy Texas stations from WN's early days. Another big difference is that DL does not currently have any service to CRP, whereas most of the airports outside of Texas that WN pulled out of such as DAY, FNT, JAN, and EYW are still served by AA, DL, and UA.
 
airliner371
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:14 am

jplatts wrote:
GSP is currently the only WN destination in the contiguous U.S. that has less demand for WN service than CRP does.

This is a good learning moment for you jplatts, just be aware of how you use the term "demand," it has a very clear economic definition. My guess is you do not have the data to determine that GSP has less demand for WN service than CRP. Something to look into for you...
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:26 am

jplatts wrote:
alggag wrote:
CRP should be happy to have the little bit of WN service that they do have to HOU and I think the fact that they are a legacy station from WN's early days are about the only thing keeping it alive. Aren't they perpetually close to last place in terms of load factors?


GSP is currently the only WN destination in the contiguous U.S. that has less demand for WN service than CRP does. WN still continues to serve CRP because CRP is one of the legacy Texas stations from WN's early days. Another big difference is that DL does not currently have any service to CRP, whereas most of the airports outside of Texas that WN pulled out of such as DAY, FNT, JAN, and EYW are still served by AA, DL, and UA.


Yep CRP’s ties to WN’s early history likely guarantee they’ll never close the station. However, they’ll also likely never grow it to anything more than what it’s been for eons. I can’t ever envision a second route from CRP, not even a seasonal Saturday only route. Don’t people on here say that despite CRP’s poor loads, that cargo is a major contributor to the station’s continued viability?
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10301
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:53 am

Dominion301 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
alggag wrote:
CRP should be happy to have the little bit of WN service that they do have to HOU and I think the fact that they are a legacy station from WN's early days are about the only thing keeping it alive. Aren't they perpetually close to last place in terms of load factors?


GSP is currently the only WN destination in the contiguous U.S. that has less demand for WN service than CRP does. WN still continues to serve CRP because CRP is one of the legacy Texas stations from WN's early days. Another big difference is that DL does not currently have any service to CRP, whereas most of the airports outside of Texas that WN pulled out of such as DAY, FNT, JAN, and EYW are still served by AA, DL, and UA.


Yep CRP’s ties to WN’s early history likely guarantee they’ll never close the station. However, they’ll also likely never grow it to anything more than what it’s been for eons. I can’t ever envision a second route from CRP, not even a seasonal Saturday only route. Don’t people on here say that despite CRP’s poor loads, that cargo is a major contributor to the station’s continued viability?

People always *say* cargo is something amazing, but it's not...ever.

In the last year WN had $19b in passenger revenue and $173m in freight revenue. That's below 1% of passenger revenue. They flew 128m Revenue Ton Miles to get $173m in revenue. So they got on average $1.35 to fly 2000lbs of freight one mile. Doesn't that sound great? So, for say 750 miles they get $1,000 in revenue to carry 2000lbs which is also their average load. One passenger and luggage is about 240lbs, so that's 8.33 passengers in weight for $1000, or a one way fare on the same weight of $120 per pax for 750 miles. Significantly worse than a typical passenger.

CRP had 28000 RTMs last year in and out. At average network yield that's like $40,000. I.E. nothing.
 
flyiguy
Posts: 1003
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:21 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:30 am

Rumor has it peanuts are going away!!!

Fly
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
WN732
Posts: 823
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:15 am

flyiguy wrote:
Rumor has it peanuts are going away!!!

Fly


No way. That's a WN staple. It would be sacrilege.
 
airliner371
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:20 am

flyiguy wrote:
Rumor has it peanuts are going away!!!

Fly

On my last flight they didn't serve them due to an allergy.
 
flyiguy
Posts: 1003
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:21 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:51 am

WN732 wrote:
flyiguy wrote:
Rumor has it peanuts are going away!!!

Fly


No way. That's a WN staple. It would be sacrilege.


With so many people having peanut allergies now a days and not needing to keep them and just serve pretzels, or premium snacks, or just makes more sense.

Fly
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:51 am

Dominion301 wrote:
Yep CRP’s ties to WN’s early history likely guarantee they’ll never close the station. However, they’ll also likely never grow it to anything more than what it’s been for eons. I can’t ever envision a second route from CRP, not even a seasonal Saturday only route. Don’t people on here say that despite CRP’s poor loads, that cargo is a major contributor to the station’s continued viability?


I could see WN possibly bringing back CRP-DAL nonstop service since DAL is one of the top destinations traveled to out of CRP that isn't currently served nonstop from CRP (even though AA already has nonstop service to nearby DFW out of CRP). WN also did serve CRP nonstop from DAL back in the early to mid 1980's, but WN discontinued CRP-DAL nonstop service sometime in the late 1980's. However, WN will probably never add nonstop service to any destinations outside of Texas out of CRP.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:58 am

airliner371 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
GSP is currently the only WN destination in the contiguous U.S. that has less demand for WN service than CRP does.

This is a good learning moment for you jplatts, just be aware of how you use the term "demand," it has a very clear economic definition. My guess is you do not have the data to determine that GSP has less demand for WN service than CRP. Something to look into for you...


According to the BTS statistics, there were 215,000 passengers who traveled to or from GSP on WN between April 2017 and March 2018, and there were 218,000 passengers who traveled to or from CRP on WN between April 2017 and March 2018. WN actually currently carries more passengers on flights to and from CRP than it does on flights to and from GSP. The comparison is also accurate for CRP and GSP since both of these destinations only have nonstop service to only 1 destination on WN and since WN does not carry any connecting-through passengers on any of its flights out of these 2 airports.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:38 pm

enilria wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

GSP is currently the only WN destination in the contiguous U.S. that has less demand for WN service than CRP does. WN still continues to serve CRP because CRP is one of the legacy Texas stations from WN's early days. Another big difference is that DL does not currently have any service to CRP, whereas most of the airports outside of Texas that WN pulled out of such as DAY, FNT, JAN, and EYW are still served by AA, DL, and UA.


Yep CRP’s ties to WN’s early history likely guarantee they’ll never close the station. However, they’ll also likely never grow it to anything more than what it’s been for eons. I can’t ever envision a second route from CRP, not even a seasonal Saturday only route. Don’t people on here say that despite CRP’s poor loads, that cargo is a major contributor to the station’s continued viability?

People always *say* cargo is something amazing, but it's not...ever.

In the last year WN had $19b in passenger revenue and $173m in freight revenue. That's below 1% of passenger revenue. They flew 128m Revenue Ton Miles to get $173m in revenue. So they got on average $1.35 to fly 2000lbs of freight one mile. Doesn't that sound great? So, for say 750 miles they get $1,000 in revenue to carry 2000lbs which is also their average load. One passenger and luggage is about 240lbs, so that's 8.33 passengers in weight for $1000, or a one way fare on the same weight of $120 per pax for 750 miles. Significantly worse than a typical passenger.

CRP had 28000 RTMs last year in and out. At average network yield that's like $40,000. I.E. nothing.


Excellent analysis of the cargo side. I checked CRP's YTD thru April pax stats and WN are up a bit at CRP compared to the past. They're up to a 66% LF. AA are trending downward, while UA are steadily increasing, including the introduction of 1 mainline 73G per day back in mid-April.
 
smokeybandit
Posts: 1409
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:54 pm

Might as well get rid of pretzels, too, due to gluten allergies.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10301
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:01 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

Yep CRP’s ties to WN’s early history likely guarantee they’ll never close the station. However, they’ll also likely never grow it to anything more than what it’s been for eons. I can’t ever envision a second route from CRP, not even a seasonal Saturday only route. Don’t people on here say that despite CRP’s poor loads, that cargo is a major contributor to the station’s continued viability?

People always *say* cargo is something amazing, but it's not...ever.

In the last year WN had $19b in passenger revenue and $173m in freight revenue. That's below 1% of passenger revenue. They flew 128m Revenue Ton Miles to get $173m in revenue. So they got on average $1.35 to fly 2000lbs of freight one mile. Doesn't that sound great? So, for say 750 miles they get $1,000 in revenue to carry 2000lbs which is also their average load. One passenger and luggage is about 240lbs, so that's 8.33 passengers in weight for $1000, or a one way fare on the same weight of $120 per pax for 750 miles. Significantly worse than a typical passenger.

CRP had 28000 RTMs last year in and out. At average network yield that's like $40,000. I.E. nothing.


Excellent analysis of the cargo side. I checked CRP's YTD thru April pax stats and WN are up a bit at CRP compared to the past. They're up to a 66% LF. AA are trending downward, while UA are steadily increasing, including the introduction of 1 mainline 73G per day back in mid-April.

Thanks. CRP is flown for unknown, likely political reasons. Could be Texas politics or something tied to a board member or a highly placed WN exec. It obviously has a champion with the power to tell the route planning people to ignore the financial results. Having said that, that's not uncommon at pretty much all large airlines to have protected routes flown for political reasons.

There are three misconceptions repeated over and over again on a.net.

1) The flight is full, so it must be great. (Flights can be full and lose money, particularly in leisure markets or markets with lots of capacity)
2) The flight is empty, but cargo makes the flight work. (There are plenty of cargo airlines. Cargo airline costs are massively lower than pax airlines and that sets the yield bar quite low as airlines must match that or undercut as shippers get better service on freighters. Cargo is *at most* 10% of onboard revenue (and that's with a widebody flying pallets long-haul) for a normally configured passenger plane. That's a nice bonus, but it can't turn bad into good. Up to 10 points of margin is not enough to change a route dramatically.)

This one you hear a lot less...but sometimes...
3) The flight is empty (less than 69% full), but the yields make it work. (Generally revenue management doesn't work until there is enough demand to fill the plane first. The whole concept of revenue management is to turn away traffic that is lower yield than you are willing to carry. If there isn't enough demand to fill the plane then there's nothing to turn away because generally you had to take anybody that wanted to go.)
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2038
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:07 pm

flyiguy wrote:
WN732 wrote:
flyiguy wrote:
Rumor has it peanuts are going away!!!

Fly


No way. That's a WN staple. It would be sacrilege.


With so many people having peanut allergies now a days and not needing to keep them and just serve pretzels, or premium snacks, or just makes more sense.

Fly


Reason I've heard it's a revenue stream decision.
WN has seen a spiking trend in a increase of Peanut Allergies aka No Peanut flights. Going hand in hand it's seen a decline the same in Early Bird and Business Select sales. The Traveling public gotten wise on how to Beat the WN system by buying the cheapest fare and saying you have a Peanut allergy.
This automatically bumps you a pre boarding passengers. Only drawl back is if you don't get Exit row or a free drink. Plus side you get a seat up front most times and save hundreds of dollars while still getting rapid rewards points.


Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos