compensateme wrote:

DTW-PHX is reduced to Saturday-only service, DTW-ATL drops from 3x to 2x and DTW-MDW remains at 4x (been that way for awhile, but was at 5x last year).

That's huge. It has been at least 1x daily for years and even has operated as 2x daily for part of the year. AA and DL have also cut back on this route. It seems like the perfect opportunity for NK.

rj777 wrote:

Any rumblings about MKE?

MKE-DAL is back and MKE-HOU (which replaced DAL last spring) remains so MKE will have two Texas nonstop on Southwest.

Looks like 35/day checking mid-week in February which is decent for Southwest in the heart of winter.

BWI-ROC is reduced from 3 to 2x daily.

CVG appears to have gotten by unscathed, all frequencies remain intact. Interesting that CVG-PHX is not resuming in the schedule yet, but I figured DL has scared them off of the route.

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like there’s a lot of reductions on this release and not many additions. Where’s the capacity going?

dbo861 wrote:

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like there’s a lot of reductions on this release and not many additions. Where’s the capacity going?

Hawaii is my guess. They are making room for that and it'll be it's very own announcement.

dbo861 wrote:

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like there’s a lot of reductions on this release and not many additions. Where’s the capacity going?

They had decent sized reductions this extension last year but i thought it was more fleet related. Maybe not, or maybe it has to do with booking being down after the accident.

STL-OAK went away for Jan/Feb last year (later Jan was added back in) and I figured it was a one time thing but it isn't showing up for this one either. Although SFO and SJC still are there.

WNflyer1523 wrote:

RL757PVD wrote:

BDL-STL dropped (perhaps seasonal?)

I found it on a search for February 12th

Shows up for me in Jan also

RL757PVD wrote:

BDL-STL dropped (perhaps seasonal?)

I found it on a search for February 12th

RL757PVD wrote:

WN gutted New England pretty well and surprisingly (or maybe not so much), pretty heavily at BOS.

PVD/BDL/MHT all have record low BWI at 4-5x for Jan/Feb (PVD has 4x but keeps 2x DCA)
BDL-LAS still not shown as resuming
BDL-STL dropped (perhaps seasonal?)
BOS-MDW and ATL down to a mere 2x
BOS-CMH/IND/MCI/MKE all down to 1x weekdays only
BOS-DEN down to 1x
BOS-BWI down to 7x, one of which is a 9pm departure, so really 6x.

It looks to me that MHT was not reduced beyond what they had a year before. They had 10 per day then and in this schedule extension. Cutting PVD-BWI to 4 per day is just beyond mind blowing for me. Maybe the two DCA flights are considered as two extra to the BWI/DCA area.

The BOS cuts are a bit of a surprise to me considering the effort WN is putting into growing the market. But I guess in the name of competing with low fares, a lot of those flights are probably loss leaders and trimming them down to the minimum market presence makes sense. I wonder if this is the beginning of WN resetting expectations for BOS, like they did with PHL, or if it's just a new seasonal adjustment to try to buy time.

RL757PVD wrote:

WN gutted New England pretty well and surprisingly (or maybe not so much), pretty heavily at BOS.

PVD/BDL/MHT all have record low BWI at 4-5x for Jan/Feb (PVD has 4x but keeps 2x DCA)
BDL-LAS still not shown as resuming
BDL-STL dropped (perhaps seasonal?)
BOS-MDW and ATL down to a mere 2x
BOS-CMH/IND/MCI/MKE all down to 1x weekdays only
BOS-DEN down to 1x
BOS-BWI down to 7x, one of which is a 9pm departure, so really 6x.

I still see BDL-STL at least on Saturdays.

I see BDL-STL now... I assumed it wasnt there when I punched in BDL-LAS and didnt see an STL connection (obvious choice for an obvious west bound feeder flight) in either direction.

LotsaRunway wrote:

RL757PVD wrote:

WN gutted New England pretty well and surprisingly (or maybe not so much), pretty heavily at BOS.
It looks to me that MHT was not reduced beyond what they had a year before. They had 10 per day then and in this schedule extension. Cutting PVD-BWI to 4 per day is just beyond mind blowing for me. Maybe the two DCA flights are considered as two extra to the BWI/DCA area.

The BOS cuts are a bit of a surprise to me considering the effort WN is putting into growing the market. But I guess in the name of competing with low fares, a lot of those flights are probably loss leaders and trimming them down to the minimum market presence makes sense. I wonder if this is the beginning of WN resetting expectations for BOS, like they did with PHL, or if it's just a new seasonal adjustment to try to buy time.

A few years back, capacity at MHT and PVD that passengers were paying a premium for was trimmed and added at BOS where the fares had to be dropped in the face of hammering Boston competition in order to make inroads there. What was gained, who knows. Now BOS gets the haircut.

Did Dulles get anything?

It's low season, but I'm surprised by some SDF changes:
SDF-MDW goes to 2X/ daily. Usually it's been 3 or 4 during the January/ February low period.
BWI, LAS, DEN, MCO, TPA all stay relatively steady with regards to previous years.
SDF-PHX goes to Saturday only, which is shocking. In over 20 years on that route it's been daily. I think it had a rough January this past year due to G4 on the route, but this is surprising. and I dont think G4 is returning.

axiom wrote:

TPA-GRR is back seasonally.

TPA-DTW/MSP/BOS weekend service does not resume next spring.

Wrong. TPA-DTW/MSP/BOS might resume on the next extension for March/April. For MSP, it has never been on this extension. Spring break is post March 2nd.

WN seems to have made some good adjustments on their LGA-MCI flights. The timings are actually halfway decent now. With a mid morning LGA-MCI and an "after work" LGA-MCI plus making the second MCI-LGA later in the day (1:45 PM) the schedule actually works better for passengers originating in NY now. For an airline that typically disappoints me, they've impressed me for the first time in a long time.

ADrum23 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Looks like BNA-EWR is resuming

Nashville has grown since last time but I don’t know that it has grown enough to ameliorate the horrid load factors (several months were in the 40s IIRC).

When was it last cut?

With BNA growing into a large WN station, I think loads should be better

I was surprised this was cut the first time. UA is now throwing a mainline flight or two on the route.

Also, can someone post the link to all the changes? Everytime this comes up it takes me forever to find it, and I can't today for some reason.

Wow next schedule not till August 16 I think wonder if they making this longer to work on Hawaii ?

evank516 wrote:

WN seems to have made some good adjustments on their LGA-MCI flights. The timings are actually halfway decent now. With a mid morning LGA-MCI and an "after work" LGA-MCI plus making the second MCI-LGA later in the day (1:45 PM) the schedule actually works better for passengers originating in NY now. For an airline that typically disappoints me, they've impressed me for the first time in a long time.

Wait, they disappointed. LGA-MCI is no ops on Saturdays. That's dumb.

Can anyone share a link to the updated schedule page?

flydulles wrote:

Wow next schedule not till August 16 I think wonder if they making this longer to work on Hawaii ?

Or maybe Hawaii will be a separate announcement and that’s where all the capacity will go with all these reductions. Hawaii will be big enough to announce separate from a routine schedule release.

No big changes for STL (Jan YOY)

+6 m-f (108 total)
+3 Sat (73 total)
+5 Sun (101 total)
+38 weekly (714 Total)

CUN stays daily. Most the other pickups are continuations of adds from 2018. I put a more detailed description on the STL thread.

dbo861 wrote:

flydulles wrote:

Wow next schedule not till August 16 I think wonder if they making this longer to work on Hawaii ?

Or maybe Hawaii will be a separate announcement and that’s where all the capacity will go with all these reductions. Hawaii will be big enough to announce separate from a routine schedule release.

Any word on how their ETOPs approval process is going? Could be wrong, but don't they need to conduct a few test flights before gaining approval, and without approval they can't issue a schedule? DOT announced last week they're launching an Inspector General audit into the FAA's oversight of Southwest. Perhaps this could further delay ETOPs approval if the FAA has the DOT breathing down their neck like that.

Here's the summary of changes:
https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t ... ba-p/76079

bb

axiom wrote:

TPA-GRR is back seasonally.

RSW-GRR returns as seasonal daily in this schedule release. Last schedule release saw the return of RSW-GRR Saturday only late Nov 2018 thru most of Dec 2018.

SANFan wrote:

Here's the summary of changes:
https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t ... ba-p/76079

bb

A lot of the seasonal cutbacks are on longer routes it looks like. Probably makes sense for winter.

SteveXC500 wrote:

axiom wrote:

TPA-GRR is back seasonally.

TPA-DTW/MSP/BOS weekend service does not resume next spring.

Wrong. TPA-DTW/MSP/BOS might resume on the next extension for March/April. For MSP, it has never been on this extension. Spring break is post March 2nd.

Ah, I thought this extension went through march. Yes, they could still come back.

but they did add SDF DAL and are keeping SDF HOU, so I guess that's okay. Hope that SDF PHX is restored to daily with the March schedule....

jasoncrh wrote:

It's low season, but I'm surprised by some SDF changes:
SDF-MDW goes to 2X/ daily. Usually it's been 3 or 4 during the January/ February low period.
BWI, LAS, DEN, MCO, TPA all stay relatively steady with regards to previous years.
SDF-PHX goes to Saturday only, which is shocking. In over 20 years on that route it's been daily. I think it had a rough January this past year due to G4 on the route, but this is surprising. and I dont think G4 is returning.

axiom wrote:

SteveXC500 wrote:

axiom wrote:

TPA-GRR is back seasonally.

TPA-DTW/MSP/BOS weekend service does not resume next spring.

Wrong. TPA-DTW/MSP/BOS might resume on the next extension for March/April. For MSP, it has never been on this extension. Spring break is post March 2nd.

Ah, I thought this extension went through march. Yes, they could still come back.

No problem. It's been Spring Break seasonal with RSW, MCO for a few years. Look for it on the next round!

dbo861 wrote:

flydulles wrote:

Wow next schedule not till August 16 I think wonder if they making this longer to work on Hawaii ?

Or maybe Hawaii will be a separate announcement and that’s where all the capacity will go with all these reductions. Hawaii will be big enough to announce separate from a routine schedule release.

I would venture a guess Hawaii is big enough to warrant its own release.

Also, August is standard, not longer, for the Spring Break extension. Last year's WAS a couple weeks earlier, but not too different.

LGB xtra flying added for only November. December flying will be extended in July.
Look like LGB-DEN added daily.

Flyguy

I really hope they add a destination like MDW or LAS from ISP in the next extension. Both were cut a while ago, but I think at least ISP-MDW would do good. Frontier currently operates ISP-ORD, and since Frontier doesn't have a hub at ORD, the majority of it is likely O&D traffic. They do have a good amount of destinations from ORD, but most are east. If WN were to operate ISP-MDW, they'd likely get O&D traffic, as well as some connecting traffic to the west.

So they are operating HOU-PHL 1x weekly for a few months in the Fall. Doesn't really make sense to me. Unless it is completely gone.

I think LAS-PHL was seasonal last year. But still leaving the door open to a NK or F9 to come in.

WNflyer1523 wrote:

I really hope they add a destination like MDW or LAS from ISP in the next extension. Both were cut a while ago, but I think at least ISP-MDW would do good. Frontier currently operates ISP-ORD, and since Frontier doesn't have a hub at ORD, the majority of it is likely O&D traffic. They do have a good amount of destinations from ORD, but most are east. If WN were to operate ISP-MDW, they'd likely get O&D traffic, as well as some connecting traffic to the west.

I think ISP-MDW disappeared because LGA-MDW started and ISP flights were no longer necessary. You'll also notice how ISP-BWI stuck, but LGA-BWI didn't. While both technically serve NYC, ISP is more leisure oriented over LGA.

jetmatt777 wrote:

OKC-BNA remains Sunday only.
OKC-MCO (sun) dropped
OKC-MDW dropped
OKC-DCA changed to a midday flight (was perfect for OKC O&D with a morning departure and evening return)

Interesting change on the OKC-DCA flight... I agree, perfect for O&D. I wonder if this means something more might be in store for OKC in terms of connections because looking at the schedule the flight will be routed HOU-OKC-DCA and the only other connection opportunity would be DAL which already has plenty of DCA flights...

Midway’s cuts are more than a few but not as broad as I thought they might be given how many have already been posted.
Here are Midway domestic markets operated in February 2018 where February 2019 has fewer weekday flights:

-1 Boston (2 left)
-1 Cleveland (4 left0
-1 Detroit (4 left)
-3 Flint (discontinued)
-1 Fort Myers (3 left)
-1 Louisville (2 left)
-1 Norfolk (1 left)
-1 Omaha (4 left)
-1 Portland PDX (1 left)

It looks like Indy-Newark is the only permanently-cut market but a number of the “seasonally-discontinued” markets had been year-round. So these are new year-over-year market drops but not permanent discontinuation:

Here are the new seasonal cuts which operated last February
ALB-DEN
BWI-SMF
BWI-SJC
MCI-SEA
IND-LAX
PHL-LAS
SAN-TPA
CMH-OAK (resumed seasonally in 2018 in mid-February)
OAK-TUS (weekend-only in 2018)
OAK-STL (weekend-only in 2018)

The perennial Southwest question with “seasonal” is how long the season will last. No way to tell that until we see future schedules.

knope2001 wrote:

Midway’s cuts are more than a few but not as broad as I thought they might be given how many have already been posted.
Here are Midway domestic markets operated in February 2018 where February 2019 has fewer weekday flights:

-1 Boston (2 left)
-1 Cleveland (4 left0
-1 Detroit (4 left)
-3 Flint (discontinued)
-1 Fort Myers (3 left)
-1 Louisville (2 left)
-1 Norfolk (1 left)
-1 Omaha (4 left)
-1 Portland PDX (1 left)

It looks like Indy-Newark is the only permanently-cut market but a number of the “seasonally-discontinued” markets had been year-round. So these are new year-over-year market drops but not permanent discontinuation:

Here are the new seasonal cuts which operated last February
ALB-DEN
BWI-SMF
BWI-SJC
MCI-SEA
IND-LAX
PHL-LAS
SAN-TPA
CMH-OAK (resumed seasonally in 2018 in mid-February)
OAK-TPA (weekend-only in 2018)
OAK-STL (weekend-only in 2018)

The perennial Southwest question with “seasonal” is how long the season will last. No way to tell that until we see future schedules.

STL-OAK didn't run at all in February last year except Valentines day. It ran every day except Saturday in January (but it was back-filled later after originally being cut in January).

WN has never operated OAK-TPA

knope2001 wrote:

Midway’s cuts are more than a few but not as broad as I thought they might be given how many have already been posted.
Here are Midway domestic markets operated in February 2018 where February 2019 has fewer weekday flights:

-1 Boston (2 left)
-1 Cleveland (4 left0
-1 Detroit (4 left)
-3 Flint (discontinued)
-1 Fort Myers (3 left)
-1 Louisville (2 left)
-1 Norfolk (1 left)
-1 Omaha (4 left)
-1 Portland PDX (1 left)

It looks like Indy-Newark is the only permanently-cut market but a number of the “seasonally-discontinued” markets had been year-round. So these are new year-over-year market drops but not permanent discontinuation:

Here are the new seasonal cuts which operated last February
ALB-DEN
BWI-SMF
BWI-SJC
MCI-SEA
IND-LAX
PHL-LAS
SAN-TPA
CMH-OAK (resumed seasonally in 2018 in mid-February)
OAK-TUS (weekend-only in 2018)
OAK-STL (weekend-only in 2018)

The perennial Southwest question with “seasonal” is how long the season will last. No way to tell that until we see future schedules.

BWI-SEA is also going seasonal.

B6 has WN by the short hairs at BOS. To be honest, the trajectory of B6 at BOS when WN came in was clear for them to see, so it's not as though they were blindsided. There is a clear market dominance by B6 at Logan, and even Massport is on their side. If there were ever a good time for B6 to enter MHT it's now. WN is waving the white flag around the whole New England region.

axiom wrote:

WN has never operated OAK-TPA

Thanks for catching this typo quickly enough for me to fix it in the original post -- should be OAK-TUS.

Let see, for IND (I'm using mid-December weekday vs. late-January weekday. Somebody else can post the YoY adjustment)

ATL: Unchanged (3x)
AUS: Unchanged (SU only)
BWI: 3->2
BOS: Unchanged (1x)
MDW: Unchanged (2x)
DAL: Unchanged (1x)
DEN: Unchanged (3x)
FLL: 1->2
RSW: 2->3
HOU: Unchanged (1x)
MCI: Unchanged (2x)
LAS: 1->2
EWR: 1->0 (Permanent End)
OAK: Unchanged (1x)
MCO: 3->4
PHX: 1->2
TPA: Unchanged (2x)
LAX: 1->0 (Make into Seasonal Flight)

I guess WN simply can't compete on IND-NYC. First they moved the flight from LGA to EWR, now totally gone.

knope2001 wrote:

Midway’s cuts are more than a few but not as broad as I thought they might be given how many have already been posted.
Here are Midway domestic markets operated in February 2018 where February 2019 has fewer weekday flights:

-1 Boston (2 left)
-1 Cleveland (4 left0
-1 Detroit (4 left)
-3 Flint (discontinued)
-1 Fort Myers (3 left)
-1 Louisville (2 left)
-1 Norfolk (1 left)
-1 Omaha (4 left)
-1 Portland PDX (1 left)

It looks like Indy-Newark is the only permanently-cut market but a number of the “seasonally-discontinued” markets had been year-round. So these are new year-over-year market drops but not permanent discontinuation:

Here are the new seasonal cuts which operated last February
ALB-DEN
BWI-SMF
BWI-SJC
MCI-SEA
IND-LAX
PHL-LAS
SAN-TPA
CMH-OAK (resumed seasonally in 2018 in mid-February)
OAK-TUS (weekend-only in 2018)
OAK-STL (weekend-only in 2018)

The perennial Southwest question with “seasonal” is how long the season will last. No way to tell that until we see future schedules.

I don't see how those could be the only cuts, when MCO-EWR is clearly cut. Whether seasonal or completely, we will find out.

LotsaRunway wrote:

RL757PVD wrote:

WN gutted New England pretty well and surprisingly (or maybe not so much), pretty heavily at BOS.

PVD/BDL/MHT all have record low BWI at 4-5x for Jan/Feb (PVD has 4x but keeps 2x DCA)
BDL-LAS still not shown as resuming
BDL-STL dropped (perhaps seasonal?)
BOS-MDW and ATL down to a mere 2x
BOS-CMH/IND/MCI/MKE all down to 1x weekdays only
BOS-DEN down to 1x
BOS-BWI down to 7x, one of which is a 9pm departure, so really 6x.

It looks to me that MHT was not reduced beyond what they had a year before. They had 10 per day then and in this schedule extension. Cutting PVD-BWI to 4 per day is just beyond mind blowing for me. Maybe the two DCA flights are considered as two extra to the BWI/DCA area.

The BOS cuts are a bit of a surprise to me considering the effort WN is putting into growing the market. But I guess in the name of competing with low fares, a lot of those flights are probably loss leaders and trimming them down to the minimum market presence makes sense. I wonder if this is the beginning of WN resetting expectations for BOS, like they did with PHL, or if it's just a new seasonal adjustment to try to buy time.

The weird part is that they are not struggling on all of those markets. Especially DEN/MCI/MKE, not sure why they cut those down to one also. They are certainly bleeding on ATL/IND/CMH though. Maybe time for WN to retreat back to MHT.

Jshank83 wrote:

knope2001 wrote:

OAK-STL (weekend-only in 2018)

STL-OAK didn't run at all in February last year except Valentines day. It ran every day except Saturday in January (but it was back-filled later after originally being cut in January).

Southwest did fly four STL-OAK flights in February 2018 which is normally the mark of 1x/week but in fact it wasn't. They ran STL-OAK on February 1, 2, 4 and 14. So it wasn't a weekend flight in February. It looks like the daily-except-Saturday flights which operated in January 2018 didn't end after 1/31 but after 2/4, hence the few trailing frequencies in February numbers.

FATFlyer wrote:

jplatts wrote:

MSN is going to be announcing a new airline and 2 new nonstop routes next week, and WN starting service out of MSN is a possibility since WN is going to be extending its schedule next week on 6/28. .

WN732 wrote:

WN would have added FAT before MSN.

I've heard not to expect new cities for WN before 2020 except for Hawaii and PAE.

Yeah, I heard that Hawait and/or PAE would be announced at the end of 2018/the beginning of 2019 at the very earliest.

knope2001 wrote:

axiom wrote:

WN has never operated OAK-TPA

Thanks for catching this typo quickly enough for me to fix it in the original post -- should be OAK-TUS.

. I say that as someone who wishes they would -- two of my "home" airports!