Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

malev2012 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:44 pm

I don't understand how WN will manage 195 flights a day at DAL with only 18 gates. Since they operate 10 out of gate 15, that means 17 gates must handle 185 gates or 10.88 flights per day. Any kind of problem will lead to rolling delays, and especially with the larger birds turn times take longer on 143-175 seat planes.

United_fan · Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:46 pm

Absolutely no additions for ROC,as usual,again....

knope2001 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:46 pm

tphuang wrote:
It looks like Indy-Newark is the only permanently-cut market

I don't see how those could be the only cuts, when MCO-EWR is clearly cut. Whether seasonal or completely, we will find out.

Hmm...the grid from Southwest's blog post (the same link somebody previously posted) doesn't reference MCO-EWR unless I'm missing it. I wonder what the scoop is.

https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t ... F7EF953700

tphuang wrote:
The weird part is that they are not struggling on all of those markets. Especially DEN/MCI/MKE, not sure why they cut those down to one also. They are certainly bleeding on ATL/IND/CMH though. Maybe time for WN to retreat back to MHT.

I get that some of the mostly point-to-point routes are 1x in the dead of winter...CMH, IND, MCI, MKE were all 1x last winter already. But to me to cut down to 2x to MDW and 1x to DEN really speaks to things not improving in Boston. To drop from 6x in summer to 2x in winter to their biggest hub MDW does not speak well of them penetrating the meat of the market. Southwest has had remarkable success winning their share...and often more than their share...in business travel markets all sorts of places but the Northeast sure doesn't seem to be an easy nut to crack. This is the dead of winter schedule, of course, but 2x BOS-MDW is a blow.

knope2001 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:53 pm

FA9295 wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
Midway’s cuts are more than a few but not as broad as I thought they might be given how many have already been posted.
Here are Midway domestic markets operated in February 2018 where February 2019 has fewer weekday flights:

-1 Boston (2 left)
-1 Cleveland (4 left0
-1 Detroit (4 left)
-3 Flint (discontinued)
-1 Fort Myers (3 left)
-1 Louisville (2 left)
-1 Norfolk (1 left)
-1 Omaha (4 left)
-1 Portland PDX (1 left)

It looks like Indy-Newark is the only permanently-cut market but a number of the “seasonally-discontinued” markets had been year-round. So these are new year-over-year market drops but not permanent discontinuation:

Here are the new seasonal cuts which operated last February
ALB-DEN
BWI-SMF
BWI-SJC
MCI-SEA
IND-LAX
PHL-LAS
SAN-TPA
CMH-OAK (resumed seasonally in 2018 in mid-February)
OAK-TUS (weekend-only in 2018)
OAK-STL (weekend-only in 2018)

The perennial Southwest question with “seasonal” is how long the season will last. No way to tell that until we see future schedules.

BWI-SEA is also going seasonal.

Right, but unless I missed it it doesn't appear that they ran BWI-SEA last winter either. I'm looking for seasonal suspensions where are new versus routine.

mke717spotter · Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:58 pm

knope2001 wrote:
MKE-DAL is back and MKE-HOU (which replaced DAL last spring) remains so MKE will have two Texas nonstop on Southwest.

Good to hear!

aviationjunky · Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:24 pm

malev2012 wrote:
I don't understand how WN will manage 195 flights a day at DAL with only 18 gates. Since they operate 10 out of gate 15, that means 17 gates must handle 185 gates or 10.88 flights per day. Any kind of problem will lead to rolling delays, and especially with the larger birds turn times take longer on 143-175 seat planes.

It actually wouldn't be that difficult. Assuming they are running a 15-17 hour flight day (5am-10pm), with 18 gates, and 195 flights, that means that each gate is running about 7-9 hours a day with 10-11 flights per gate. Since SW promises a 30 minute turn around, which we all know never really happens, it allows for more flights per gate, per day, without much back up. Also, since DAL is a hub for SW, it is assumed they have open tarmac space for stand-by aircraft for any potential long term flight delays.

AirFiero · Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:27 pm

compensateme wrote:
DTW-PHX is reduced to Saturday-only service, DTW-ATL drops from 3x to 2x and DTW-MDW remains at 4x (been that way for awhile, but was at 5x last year).

I have a Detroit question...didn’t WN serve DET at one point? Where was the passenger terminal?

Jshank83 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:31 pm

knope2001 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
OAK-STL (weekend-only in 2018)

STL-OAK didn't run at all in February last year except Valentines day. It ran every day except Saturday in January (but it was back-filled later after originally being cut in January).

Southwest did fly four STL-OAK flights in February 2018 which is normally the mark of 1x/week but in fact it wasn't. They ran STL-OAK on February 1, 2, 4 and 14. So it wasn't a weekend flight in February. It looks like the daily-except-Saturday flights which operated in January 2018 didn't end after 1/31 but after 2/4, hence the few trailing frequencies in February numbers.

That is all correct if I recall correctly. 14th was Vday and I wasn't counting the first couple days to finish off that week that bled into Feb.

AirFiero · Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:33 pm

Wow, SJC-BWI is considered seasonal. Same with SMF and SEA.

flydulles · Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:11 pm

So I wonder if Hawaii gets dumped in the next schedule release scheduled for August 16th currently.

malev2012 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:52 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
malev2012 wrote:
I don't understand how WN will manage 195 flights a day at DAL with only 18 gates. Since they operate 10 out of gate 15, that means 17 gates must handle 185 gates or 10.88 flights per day. Any kind of problem will lead to rolling delays, and especially with the larger birds turn times take longer on 143-175 seat planes.

It actually wouldn't be that difficult. Assuming they are running a 15-17 hour flight day (5am-10pm), with 18 gates, and 195 flights, that means that each gate is running about 7-9 hours a day with 10-11 flights per gate. Since SW promises a 30 minute turn around, which we all know never really happens, it allows for more flights per gate, per day, without much back up. Also, since DAL is a hub for SW, it is assumed they have open tarmac space for stand-by aircraft for any potential long term flight delays.

Will be interesting to see if this has an impact on OTP.

jplatts · Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:06 pm

AirFiero wrote:
I have a Detroit question...didn’t WN serve DET at one point? Where was the passenger terminal?

WN used to serve DET in the past, but DET no longer has any commercial passenger air service. More detailed information about WN's former DET operation can be found at https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t5/Southwest-Stories/Flashback-Friday-Splitting-the-Town/ba-p/42077 and at https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t5/Southwest-Stories/Flashback-Fridays-Once-Upon-a-Time-in-Detroit/ba-p/29284.

flyrocoak · Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:17 pm

Roots1 wrote:
BWI-ROC is reduced from 3 to 2x daily.

This is disappointing. I just checked the load factors the other day and WN has an annual average of 85.43% in ROC. Not horrible. I've seen the writing on the wall for awhile now as WN keeps cutting back on ROC. For my bi-weekly work trips, I've already moved off of them for the most part, in anticipation. The only route I am flying with them now is just to the SF Bay Area and with this change, I can no longer fly with them to OAK (well return, that is) as they no longer offer it.

Between AA, UA, Delta and Jet Blue, they offer the same coverage, more so, as they fly into more than just one hub from ROC. So if they pull back completely, it's not like there are no other options.

Dominion301 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:30 pm

malev2012 wrote:
I don't understand how WN will manage 195 flights a day at DAL with only 18 gates. Since they operate 10 out of gate 15, that means 17 gates must handle 185 gates or 10.88 flights per day. Any kind of problem will lead to rolling delays, and especially with the larger birds turn times take longer on 143-175 seat planes.

It’s actually 200 as they also need to accommodate DL’s 5 flights. However if as was said, departures are staggered from 0500-2200, heck even 2230, it should be doable.

As for DET, operations were from the terminal building, which has been vacant for a long time.

maximairways · Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:44 pm

3x Saturdays only BUF-RSW seems like an increase from years past, I wonder if it's an attack on F9.

msycajun · Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:46 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
malev2012 wrote:
I don't understand how WN will manage 195 flights a day at DAL with only 18 gates. Since they operate 10 out of gate 15, that means 17 gates must handle 185 gates or 10.88 flights per day. Any kind of problem will lead to rolling delays, and especially with the larger birds turn times take longer on 143-175 seat planes.

It’s actually 200 as they also need to accommodate DL’s 5 flights. However if as was said, departures are staggered from 0500-2200, heck even 2230, it should be doable.

As for DET, operations were from the terminal building, which has been vacant for a long time.

I find it interesting that they feel that adding flights to DAL, even when cutting a lot of things across the network is a good strategy. Looking at the stats, DAL had an ontime arrival rate of 78% and ontime departure of 73% for the year ending in April, down from the previous year. That to me suggests that airport congestion is delaying things. It will only get worse with more flights and bigger planes.

MIflyer12 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:17 pm

msycajun wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
malev2012 wrote:
I don't understand how WN will manage 195 flights a day at DAL with only 18 gates. Since they operate 10 out of gate 15, that means 17 gates must handle 185 gates or 10.88 flights per day. Any kind of problem will lead to rolling delays, and especially with the larger birds turn times take longer on 143-175 seat planes.

It’s actually 200 as they also need to accommodate DL’s 5 flights. However if as was said, departures are staggered from 0500-2200, heck even 2230, it should be doable.

As for DET, operations were from the terminal building, which has been vacant for a long time.

I find it interesting that they feel that adding flights to DAL, even when cutting a lot of things across the network is a good strategy. Looking at the stats, DAL had an ontime arrival rate of 78% and ontime departure of 73% for the year ending in April, down from the previous year. That to me suggests that airport congestion is delaying things. It will only get worse with more flights and bigger planes.

Those stats really aren't any different from 2013 or 2014. DAL had 7,017 air carrier ops in 2013, and 11,790 in 2017.

http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/resourc ... rrent.html

msycajun · Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:26 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
msycajun wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

It’s actually 200 as they also need to accommodate DL’s 5 flights. However if as was said, departures are staggered from 0500-2200, heck even 2230, it should be doable.

As for DET, operations were from the terminal building, which has been vacant for a long time.

I find it interesting that they feel that adding flights to DAL, even when cutting a lot of things across the network is a good strategy. Looking at the stats, DAL had an ontime arrival rate of 78% and ontime departure of 73% for the year ending in April, down from the previous year. That to me suggests that airport congestion is delaying things. It will only get worse with more flights and bigger planes.

Those stats really aren't any different from 2013 or 2014. DAL had 7,017 air carrier ops in 2013, and 11,790 in 2017.

http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/resourc ... rrent.html

I'm not sure what you are getting at. I wasn't talking about total ops, but on time statistics for scheduled service. Those two things are unrelated, because total ops includes private and gen aviation that isn't limited by the number of gates in the passenger terminal. And looking back at 2013 to the latest data, this past year was lower than any other year except 2014 and is trending downward over the past three years. Now it's not a huge drop, but the point is that there isn't much room for growth at DAL without further impacting on time operations for WN.

uconn99 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:25 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
Looks like BDL-LAS is ending

The flight has been around for a few years and I believe has been year round and seasonal in the past. If WN does indeed cancel this route, I am sure someone like NK will fly it as it appears they are having some success at BDL. Does anyone know the O&D numbers for BDL/PVD/MHT-LAS?

Roots1 · Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:26 am

flyrocoak wrote:
Roots1 wrote:
BWI-ROC is reduced from 3 to 2x daily.

This is disappointing. I just checked the load factors the other day and WN has an annual average of 85.43% in ROC. Not horrible.

I’m hoping this is just temporary for the slow January/February period and it will return in March

holeham · Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:42 am

The loss of SAN-TPA even if it is just seasonal has to be a blow to the folks at TPA.

BTVB6Flyer · Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:14 am

holeham wrote:
The loss of SAN-TPA even if it is just seasonal has to be a blow to the folks at TPA.

Obviously not ideal, but WN is still starting LAX soon. And it sometimes takes a while to build route maturity. DL paused their SLC start for a month or so after launch, it happens. Again its about how it matures overtime.

phluser · Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:40 am

maximairways wrote:
3x Saturdays only BUF-RSW seems like an increase from years past, I wonder if it's an attack on F9.

With limited frequency of only Saturday non stops from WN, I doubt it is an effective “attack”. I’m not sure of F9’s schedule then, if it will coexist simultaneously, but might be symbiotic in a way that pax consider an RSW trip flying F9 one way, WN on the return or vice versa.

DeltaRules · Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:42 am

knope2001 wrote:

tphuang wrote:
The weird part is that they are not struggling on all of those markets. Especially DEN/MCI/MKE, not sure why they cut those down to one also. They are certainly bleeding on ATL/IND/CMH though. Maybe time for WN to retreat back to MHT.

I get that some of the mostly point-to-point routes are 1x in the dead of winter...CMH, IND, MCI, MKE were all 1x last winter already. But to me to cut down to 2x to MDW and 1x to DEN really speaks to things not improving in Boston. To drop from 6x in summer to 2x in winter to their biggest hub MDW does not speak well of them penetrating the meat of the market. Southwest has had remarkable success winning their share...and often more than their share...in business travel markets all sorts of places but the Northeast sure doesn't seem to be an easy nut to crack. This is the dead of winter schedule, of course, but 2x BOS-MDW is a blow.

I wonder if it'd be a death blow for WN on the routes if B6 were finally to jump (or jump back) into some of these markets from BOS.

AWACSooner · Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:58 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
OKC-BNA remains Sunday only.
OKC-MCO (sun) dropped
OKC-MDW dropped
OKC-DCA changed to a midday flight (was perfect for OKC O&D with a morning departure and evening return)

Screwed...Screwed...Screwed...SCREWED!!!

malev2012 · Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:59 am

AWACSooner wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
OKC-BNA remains Sunday only.
OKC-MCO (sun) dropped
OKC-MDW dropped
OKC-DCA changed to a midday flight (was perfect for OKC O&D with a morning departure and evening return)

Screwed...Screwed...Screwed...SCREWED!!!

That is very strange, is the BWI flight in morning? Maybe to space it out?

7H4 · Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:32 am

msycajun wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
malev2012 wrote:
I don't understand how WN will manage 195 flights a day at DAL with only 18 gates. Since they operate 10 out of gate 15, that means 17 gates must handle 185 gates or 10.88 flights per day. Any kind of problem will lead to rolling delays, and especially with the larger birds turn times take longer on 143-175 seat planes.

It’s actually 200 as they also need to accommodate DL’s 5 flights. However if as was said, departures are staggered from 0500-2200, heck even 2230, it should be doable.

As for DET, operations were from the terminal building, which has been vacant for a long time.

I find it interesting that they feel that adding flights to DAL, even when cutting a lot of things across the network is a good strategy. Looking at the stats, DAL had an ontime arrival rate of 78% and ontime departure of 73% for the year ending in April, down from the previous year. That to me suggests that airport congestion is delaying things. It will only get worse with more flights and bigger planes.

WN operates scheduled turns at DAL starting at 0600 (airport curfew) and ending roughy around 2230. If WN plans to go up to 195 flights/day by Jan 2019 then they WILL need more gates. There is barely enough slack in the schedule for the 180 flights/day they do out of the 17.5 gates that they have. I have heard that DAL has a flight cap of 200 flights per day and that AS will be reducing their flight schedule in the coming months. If that is the case then I expect (and hope, lord knows us DAL rampers are stretched thin as it is) that AS will give up gate 13, we will share that gate with DL, and gain full use of 15.

WNCrew · Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:55 am

Maybe I missed it, but did we announce any of our additional routes with the acquisition of those slots at DCA and LGA?

Jshank83 · Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:19 pm

WNCrew wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but did we announce any of our additional routes with the acquisition of those slots at DCA and LGA?

I am pretty sure they have all been announced now, as of the previous update. I can't remember all of them

I think BNA got a DCA and MCI got an LGA. STL got a DCA early so it wasn't announced with the others. They might have some leased out also. Someone on here I am sure can remember.

LovePrunesAnet · Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:33 pm

perhaps the cuts people are wondering if they were made in preparation for Hawaii are ACTUALLY made to fulfill the dream of airliners.net fanboys waiting for WN to XNA...
everyone knows XNA>HNL! I'm sure it's keeping route planning working nights and weekends how to make XNA work for Southwest because gosh darn it, we deserve it! :rotfl:

#schadenfreude

Chemist · Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:54 pm

Perhaps some of the cuts are do maintenance strategically during the slow season.

evank516 · Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:07 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
WNCrew wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but did we announce any of our additional routes with the acquisition of those slots at DCA and LGA?

I am pretty sure they have all been announced now, as of the previous update. I can't remember all of them

I think BNA got a DCA and MCI got an LGA. STL got a DCA early so it wasn't announced with the others. They might have some leased out also. Someone on here I am sure can remember.

Yeah, WN made this announcement during the last extension about a month ago. LGA-MCI gets a second flight except Saturdays, LGA-MSY is starting and I think LGA-FLL goes daily too. Or is it LGA-MCO?

Mboyle1988 · Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:04 am

I’m gutted. Someone in my company flies PHX to SDF at least weekly. Once again wn screws Phoenix. No DTW, no SDF, no LIT, no DSM, no CVG. So many cuts.

jplatts · Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:57 am

knope2001 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
The weird part is that they are not struggling on all of those markets. Especially DEN/MCI/MKE, not sure why they cut those down to one also. They are certainly bleeding on ATL/IND/CMH though. Maybe time for WN to retreat back to MHT.

I get that some of the mostly point-to-point routes are 1x in the dead of winter...CMH, IND, MCI, MKE were all 1x last winter already. But to me to cut down to 2x to MDW and 1x to DEN really speaks to things not improving in Boston. To drop from 6x in summer to 2x in winter to their biggest hub MDW does not speak well of them penetrating the meat of the market. Southwest has had remarkable success winning their share...and often more than their share...in business travel markets all sorts of places but the Northeast sure doesn't seem to be an easy nut to crack. This is the dead of winter schedule, of course, but 2x BOS-MDW is a blow.

I am surprised that WN will be only down to 1 daily nonstop to DEN from BOS, especially with no DL nonstop service to DEN out of BOS and no F9 service out of BOS. The only thing that I can think of that would weaken demand for DEN-BOS nonstop service during the wintertime is Boston-area customers preferring to fly to DEN on B6 instead of WN or UA. B6 also already has nonstop service out of BOS to many of the destinations that passengers would otherwise be connecting to on WN through BOS.

I am also surprised that WN will only be down to 2 daily nonstops to MDW from BOS this winter. However, AA, UA, and B6 also already serve ORD nonstop from BOS, and most of the destinations that passengers would be connecting to from BOS through MDW on WN already have nonstop service out of BOS on either B6 or WN.

cvgComair · Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:26 pm

Mboyle1988 wrote:
I’m gutted. Someone in my company flies PHX to SDF at least weekly. Once again wn screws Phoenix. No DTW, no SDF, no LIT, no DSM, no CVG. So many cuts.

It seems like everyone is dropping CVG-PHX: F9 just cut it, G4 hasn't moved beyond 2/3x week, and WN will only operate it in April plus a few Saturdays in Dec. Pretty crazy that there will only be 1 daily flight most of the year between the two cities, when comparable cities like IND see at least 4x/day on the route. Luckily we still have Delta on the route, but it seems kind of ridiculous that no other carrier can operate CVG-PHX daily/year-round.

ADrum23 · Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:55 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Mboyle1988 wrote:
I’m gutted. Someone in my company flies PHX to SDF at least weekly. Once again wn screws Phoenix. No DTW, no SDF, no LIT, no DSM, no CVG. So many cuts.

It seems like everyone is dropping CVG-PHX: F9 just cut it, G4 hasn't moved beyond 2/3x week, and WN will only operate it in April plus a few Saturdays in Dec. Pretty crazy that there will only be 1 daily flight most of the year between the two cities, when comparable cities like IND see at least 4x/day on the route. Luckily we still have Delta on the route, but it seems kind of ridiculous that no other carrier can operate CVG-PHX daily/year-round.

I still think it is a matter of when before WN launches CVG-PHX year round. Perhaps now with others cutting it, WN may be inclined to up their game and offer a daily flight.

cledaybuck · Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:26 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Mboyle1988 wrote:
I’m gutted. Someone in my company flies PHX to SDF at least weekly. Once again wn screws Phoenix. No DTW, no SDF, no LIT, no DSM, no CVG. So many cuts.

It seems like everyone is dropping CVG-PHX: F9 just cut it, G4 hasn't moved beyond 2/3x week, and WN will only operate it in April plus a few Saturdays in Dec. Pretty crazy that there will only be 1 daily flight most of the year between the two cities, when comparable cities like IND see at least 4x/day on the route. Luckily we still have Delta on the route, but it seems kind of ridiculous that no other carrier can operate CVG-PHX daily/year-round.

Evan DL appears to have cut back to 5x weekly next spring.

KMCOFlyer · Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:36 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Mboyle1988 wrote:
I’m gutted. Someone in my company flies PHX to SDF at least weekly. Once again wn screws Phoenix. No DTW, no SDF, no LIT, no DSM, no CVG. So many cuts.

It seems like everyone is dropping CVG-PHX: F9 just cut it, G4 hasn't moved beyond 2/3x week, and WN will only operate it in April plus a few Saturdays in Dec. Pretty crazy that there will only be 1 daily flight most of the year between the two cities, when comparable cities like IND see at least 4x/day on the route. Luckily we still have Delta on the route, but it seems kind of ridiculous that no other carrier can operate CVG-PHX daily/year-round.

Evan DL appears to have cut back to 5x weekly next spring.

DL timing is terrible for connections. I don't see how DL can operate CVG-PHX without any connections to support it. If the flight time was moved back to around 9-10 am from CVG, it could work.

Midwestindy · Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:05 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
It seems like everyone is dropping CVG-PHX: F9 just cut it, G4 hasn't moved beyond 2/3x week, and WN will only operate it in April plus a few Saturdays in Dec. Pretty crazy that there will only be 1 daily flight most of the year between the two cities, when comparable cities like IND see at least 4x/day on the route. Luckily we still have Delta on the route, but it seems kind of ridiculous that no other carrier can operate CVG-PHX daily/year-round.

Evan DL appears to have cut back to 5x weekly next spring.

DL timing is terrible for connections. I don't see how DL can operate CVG-PHX without any connections to support it. If the flight time was moved back to around 9-10 am from CVG, it could work.

It will be interesting to see what WN's average fares were for March and April were.

Vctony · Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:43 am

Mboyle1988 wrote:
I’m gutted. Someone in my company flies PHX to SDF at least weekly. Once again wn screws Phoenix. No DTW, no SDF, no LIT, no DSM, no CVG. So many cuts.

DTW is now the 2nd biggest hole in WN's network from PHX after BOS (or will be starting in January). I don't count 1 flight a week (on a Saturday) as WN really serving the market. As of now, there is no ULCC competition on the route. In January AA will fly it 2x with A320s and DL will fly it 3x (2x 739, 1x 752). F9 threw the dart at this route but it didn't stick and neither G4 nor NK have operated it.

My guess is that that WN depends on the PHX point of sale to make this route work (as DL is the preferred option on the DTW end). I am curious if this is a seasonal cut or if it will go back up to daily service starting in March.

Between SDF and CVG, if they were to serve only one, my choice would be CVG. However, I am curious if like LIT (and DTW) that this is only a 2 month cut for SDF and it will go daily starting in March.

Vctony · Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:43 am

Mboyle1988 wrote:
I’m gutted. Someone in my company flies PHX to SDF at least weekly. Once again wn screws Phoenix. No DTW, no SDF, no LIT, no DSM, no CVG. So many cuts.

DTW is now the 2nd biggest hole in WN's network from PHX after BOS (or will be starting in January). I don't count 1 flight a week (on a Saturday) as WN really serving the market. As of now, there is no ULCC competition on the route. In January AA will fly it 2x with A320s and DL will fly it 3x (2x 739, 1x 752). F9 threw the dart at this route but it didn't stick and neither G4 nor NK have operated it.

My guess is that that WN depends on the PHX point of sale to make this route work (as DL is the preferred option on the DTW end). I am curious if this is a seasonal cut or if it will go back up to daily service starting in March.

Between SDF and CVG, if they were to serve only one, my choice would be CVG. However, I am curious if like LIT (and DTW) that this is only a 2 month cut for SDF and it will go daily starting in March.

bob75013 · Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:52 pm

Thee is some speculation that one of the reasons WN is adding 15 flights next year at DAL is to push utilization to the maximum, thinking it might help them in their continuing court fight about DAL with DL..

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwes ... 00245.html

smflyer · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:01 pm

I didn't know what forum to post this in, but I was listening to a radio interview with SMF's marketing manager and he noted that we should expect WN to announce Hawaii route by August. I already posted this in the SMF thread, so here it is:

In a news interview with the airports marketing manager, he said WN will be announcing Hawaii flights out of SMF to "come by August". You can hear the interview with the link posted and he mentions the WN Hawaii details at around 4:00mins in.

https://kfbk.iheart.com/featured/the-af ... p-flights/

Haneke also discusses possible future non-stop service that he would like to see and mentions Kauai, Philadelphia, Nashville, and Fort Lauderdale

wnflyguy · Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:38 am

smflyer wrote:
I didn't know what forum to post this in, but I was listening to a radio interview with SMF's marketing manager and he noted that we should expect WN to announce Hawaii route by August. I already posted this in the SMF thread, so here it is:

In a news interview with the airports marketing manager, he said WN will be announcing Hawaii flights out of SMF to "come by August". You can hear the interview with the link posted and he mentions the WN Hawaii details at around 4:00mins in.

https://kfbk.iheart.com/featured/the-af ... p-flights/

Haneke also discusses possible future non-stop service that he would like to see and mentions Kauai, Philadelphia, Nashville, and Fort Lauderdale

Thanks for the link.
Latest Rumors and speculation are actual Hawaii Proving runs in late August sometime.
With OAK and SAN starting service first in October.
Then SJC and SMF In November.
Followed by LAX and ONT in December.
Also RedEye flying is now rumored on the books for Hawaii service from day one vs 2020.
Lastly the first Repainting of the NG ETOPS fleet rolls out of the VCV paint shop this week.
Will or will it not have the Hawaiian flare added to the paint scheme.
But others predict a NO vote on the MX TA which could stall Hawaii plans.
Again all rumors and speculation.

Good times.
Flyguy

AirFiero · Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:49 pm

I was at the gym, and saw a story on the TV showing the news that WN was adding 33 new destinations from OAK? Is this new or just old news?

jplatts · Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:30 pm

AirFiero wrote:
I was at the gym, and saw a story on the TV showing the news that WN was adding 33 new destinations from OAK? Is this new or just old news?

While I do not see WN adding nonstop service to 33 additional destinations from OAK anytime soon, I could see WN possibly adding nonstop service to 20 additional destinations in the Midwest, Southeast, and Northeast out of OAK, but WN will not be adding all 20 of these nonstop routes prior to 2020. WN already plans on serving HNL, LIH, OGG, and KOA, and I do expect WN to be adding nonstop service to these Hawaiian destinations nonstop from OAK. WN also had said that ANC is one of the top destinations in the U.S. without WN service, and WN had also already stated that it is considering expansion into Alaska.

The top destinations in the contiguous U.S. traveled to from the San Francisco Bay Area that aren't currently served nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area include ALB, BUF, RSW, GRR, JAX, SDF, ORF, and RIC. WN could possibly add nonstop service to OAK from some of these destinations if UA doesn't add nonstop service to SFO from these destinations.

AirFiero · Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:48 pm

jplatts wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I was at the gym, and saw a story on the TV showing the news that WN was adding 33 new destinations from OAK? Is this new or just old news?

While I do not see WN adding nonstop service to 33 additional destinations from OAK anytime soon, I could see WN possibly adding nonstop service to 20 additional destinations in the Midwest, Southeast, and Northeast out of OAK, but WN will not be adding all 20 of these nonstop routes prior to 2020. WN already plans on serving HNL, LIH, OGG, and KOA, and I do expect WN to be adding nonstop service to these Hawaiian destinations nonstop from OAK. WN also had said that ANC is one of the top destinations in the U.S. without WN service, and WN had also already stated that it is considering expansion into Alaska.

The top destinations in the contiguous U.S. traveled to from the San Francisco Bay Area that aren't currently served nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area include ALB, BUF, RSW, GRR, JAX, SDF, ORF, and RIC. WN could possibly add nonstop service to OAK from some of these destinations if UA doesn't add nonstop service to SFO from these destinations.

It didn’t seem plausible to me. Maybe 33 new flights, but even then, where do the planes come from? Unless they make major cuts elsewhere.

AirFiero · Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:04 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
jplatts wrote:

While I do not see WN adding nonstop service to 33 additional destinations from OAK anytime soon, I could see WN possibly adding nonstop service to 20 additional destinations in the Midwest, Southeast, and Northeast out of OAK, but WN will not be adding all 20 of these nonstop routes prior to 2020. WN already plans on serving HNL, LIH, OGG, and KOA, and I do expect WN to be adding nonstop service to these Hawaiian destinations nonstop from OAK. WN also had said that ANC is one of the top destinations in the U.S. without WN service, and WN had also already stated that it is considering expansion into Alaska.

The top destinations in the contiguous U.S. traveled to from the San Francisco Bay Area that aren't currently served nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area include ALB, BUF, RSW, GRR, JAX, SDF, ORF, and RIC. WN could possibly add nonstop service to OAK from some of these destinations if UA doesn't add nonstop service to SFO from these destinations.

It didn’t seem plausible to me. Maybe 33 new flights, but even then, where do the planes come from? Unless they make major cuts elsewhere.

It's an error. The stat is 33 total destinations for WN at OAK this year. So no, they are not adding 33 more. They barely have room for the current number and have expanded into 3 gates in Terminal 1.

Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks.

ucdtim17 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:07 pm

AirFiero wrote:
jplatts wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I was at the gym, and saw a story on the TV showing the news that WN was adding 33 new destinations from OAK? Is this new or just old news?

While I do not see WN adding nonstop service to 33 additional destinations from OAK anytime soon, I could see WN possibly adding nonstop service to 20 additional destinations in the Midwest, Southeast, and Northeast out of OAK, but WN will not be adding all 20 of these nonstop routes prior to 2020. WN already plans on serving HNL, LIH, OGG, and KOA, and I do expect WN to be adding nonstop service to these Hawaiian destinations nonstop from OAK. WN also had said that ANC is one of the top destinations in the U.S. without WN service, and WN had also already stated that it is considering expansion into Alaska.

The top destinations in the contiguous U.S. traveled to from the San Francisco Bay Area that aren't currently served nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area include ALB, BUF, RSW, GRR, JAX, SDF, ORF, and RIC. WN could possibly add nonstop service to OAK from some of these destinations if UA doesn't add nonstop service to SFO from these destinations.

It didn’t seem plausible to me. Maybe 33 new flights, but even then, where do the planes come from? Unless they make major cuts elsewhere.

It's an error. The stat is 33 total destinations for WN at OAK this year. So no, they are not adding 33 more. They barely have room for the current number and have expanded into 3 gates in Terminal 1.

airliner371 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:23 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
jplatts wrote:

While I do not see WN adding nonstop service to 33 additional destinations from OAK anytime soon, I could see WN possibly adding nonstop service to 20 additional destinations in the Midwest, Southeast, and Northeast out of OAK, but WN will not be adding all 20 of these nonstop routes prior to 2020. WN already plans on serving HNL, LIH, OGG, and KOA, and I do expect WN to be adding nonstop service to these Hawaiian destinations nonstop from OAK. WN also had said that ANC is one of the top destinations in the U.S. without WN service, and WN had also already stated that it is considering expansion into Alaska.

The top destinations in the contiguous U.S. traveled to from the San Francisco Bay Area that aren't currently served nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area include ALB, BUF, RSW, GRR, JAX, SDF, ORF, and RIC. WN could possibly add nonstop service to OAK from some of these destinations if UA doesn't add nonstop service to SFO from these destinations.

It didn’t seem plausible to me. Maybe 33 new flights, but even then, where do the planes come from? Unless they make major cuts elsewhere.

It's an error. The stat is 33 total destinations for WN at OAK this year. So no, they are not adding 33 more. They barely have room for the current number and have expanded into 3 gates in Terminal 1.

Indeed, it seems OAK is going to have to expand soon.

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