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dcajet
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:26 pm

ramzi wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Cedric13 wrote:
Air Canada did try multiple times to launch this route but the Canadian gov keeps turning them down... Let’s hope for the best tho during the coming years!


On security grounds. As much as it is a wonderful and gorgeous city, rich in history and a crossroads of civilizations, the security issue is still something not completely resolved. I'm not sure BEY would be approved by the DHS as a gateway for US-bound flights either.


I do wonder what the rational here is. Several European cities have suffered terrorist attacks and other forms of violence in recent years while Beirut has not. The most recent security issue in Beirut was some spillover from the Syrian conflict at a border town, and that was 100% contained and rectified in a matter of days. The amount of security at BEY is really ridiculous, the only other airport I have been to where you go through security twice is IST.

It is a shame because direct flights to YUL or JFK would perform really well as there is a huge market. Most recently the chairperson of ME claimed that there was an enormous security cost required of ME to fly these routes, and so they opted not to when the government refused to help share the cost. I suppose this would partly include a third security check before boarding, but I can't imagine how much more you can do. I know for BEY-:LHR, IST-LHR and a couple of others there is a requirement to either search 70% of passengers before boarding or ban laptops and tablets, but that doesn't really seem costly.


Probably the same reason why no non stop flights to the US are allowed from Pakistan. When PIA used to operate to the US (does it still? Seem to recall it was cancelling JFK altogether) it had to stop in BCN on the way, so the flight could be properly screened. On the way back to Pakistan, it was a non stop flight.
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c933103
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:47 am

Foe Middle East destination from Mecico, wouldn't IST have better chance if they actually want to launch something?
gatibosgru wrote:
So it is basically just a codeshare?

It is a bilateral agreement that would make it possible to have codeshare flights according to my understanding and that doesn't mean they would have to code share after it
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FlyHappy
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:06 am

ramzi wrote:
dcajet wrote:
I'm not sure BEY would be approved by the DHS as a gateway for US-bound flights either.


I do wonder what the rational here is. Several European cities have suffered terrorist attacks and other forms of violence in recent years while Beirut has not. The most recent security issue in Beirut was some spillover from the Syrian conflict at a border town, and that was 100% contained and rectified in a matter of days. The amount of security at BEY is really ridiculous, the only other airport I have been to where you go through security twice is IST.


It isn't just about passenger screenings. Its likely there are other physical and procedural areas of concern; those are the differences between the Beirut airport and the European airports.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:29 am

The "there are a lot of XXX people in YYY" argument is feeble.

In an inter-connected world of 7+ billion people, there are a lot of kinds of people everywhere. Doesn't mean every airline should launch a flight to every other city on the planet.
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GSP psgr
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:50 am

Cedric13 wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
Does AM have the traffic rights to fly MEX-YUL-BEY? Now that's a route with potential.

Air Canada did try multiple times to launch this route but the Canadian gov keeps turning them down... Let’s hope for the best tho during the coming years!


Honestly, AC should reapply. It's always been rumored that the problem isn't on the Canadian side, it's that DHS threw a shitfit at the mere concept of the idea. When they tried last year, Trudeau was still trying to appease the Trump administration. After the past two months....they might finally get a yes. And honestly, if BEY security is good enough for the likes of AF/France and BA/UK (both of which are on terrorist hit lists), it's good enough for AC and YUL. I don't get what the big deal is between someone flying BEY-CDG-JFK and BEY-YUL-EWR would be.
 
ramzi
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:27 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
Cedric13 wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
Does AM have the traffic rights to fly MEX-YUL-BEY? Now that's a route with potential.

Air Canada did try multiple times to launch this route but the Canadian gov keeps turning them down... Let’s hope for the best tho during the coming years!


Honestly, AC should reapply. It's always been rumored that the problem isn't on the Canadian side, it's that DHS threw a shitfit at the mere concept of the idea. When they tried last year, Trudeau was still trying to appease the Trump administration. After the past two months....they might finally get a yes. And honestly, if BEY security is good enough for the likes of AF/France and BA/UK (both of which are on terrorist hit lists), it's good enough for AC and YUL. I don't get what the big deal is between someone flying BEY-CDG-JFK and BEY-YUL-EWR would be.


Exactly.
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Adipocere
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:38 pm

Would the US allow a flight originating in BEY even overfly US airspace without an intermediate security check in a trusted EU country (like PIA security stop in MAN).
 
JUANTRIPPEJR
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:49 pm

ramzi wrote:
Despite all the drama in the thread, I actually think this route would work. Of course I realize it is not going to happen anytime soon, clearly all of this talk is just about a code share via Madrid.

A few reasons why this can be a very successful route:
1. There has not been a direct connection between Lebanon and the Americas in around 40 years, despite the traffic existing
2. AeroMexico and MEA are both SkyTeam members, this connection can help frequent fliers of either airline significantly
3. MEA has a solid network in the Middle East, with two daily frequencies to nearly every major city, AeroMexico could collect traffic from all of those routes
4. Syrians typically fly through BEY, plus sometimes Palestinians, these travelers could easily access the AeroMexico network with this flight
5. Bypassing Europe will make the trip drastically shorter, even for passengers connecting on either side of the route

Of course there are other routes that AM can fly to, and many of them may have more O&D traffic and better guaranteed success, but a non-stop between Lebanon and South America is a unique window where regular fliers would likely be willing to let go of TK, EK, QR and others for a more convenient trip. All of this, of course, is not to mention that this can also create an alternate link to the US. In the mean time, the best measure of whether this will become feasible is how much traffic the codeshare via Madrid will see.



Finally, someone who understands how an airline works! People are so focused on point to point and forget about connecting traffic and SkyTeam hubs!
 
lychemsa
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:40 pm

No possible logic for this.
 
EddieDude
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:27 pm

MEX-BEY nonstop is a ridiculous idea.

The only thing we know is that there is or will be a new bilateral, and that AM and ME are interested in codesharing with each other via MAD (and via CDG perhaps as well). This codeshare plan is a good idea, and is exactly why carriers in different regions join an alliance.

Maybe it is time to have a smarter discussion about the codeshares? Or lock the thread.
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GSP psgr
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:52 pm

Adipocere wrote:
Would the US allow a flight originating in BEY even overfly US airspace without an intermediate security check in a trusted EU country (like PIA security stop in MAN).


Looking at the flight path of today's AC85 (TLV-YYZ), I'm pretty sure that AC wouldn't have to transit US airspace on a BEY-YUL with a 787.
 
dodgers702
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:18 pm

EddieDude wrote:
MEX-BEY nonstop is a ridiculous idea.

The only thing we know is that there is or will be a new bilateral, and that AM and ME are interested in codesharing with each other via MAD (and via CDG perhaps as well). This codeshare plan is a good idea, and is exactly why carriers in different regions join an alliance.

Maybe it is time to have a smarter discussion about the codeshares? Or lock the thread.



Hopefully it will become a reality and a codeshare will be started. Like how AM has devirsified their codeshare portfolio. Plus Mexican citizens can get visa on arrival when visiting Lebanon. Cannot be said the same vice versa but if a codeshare between both arilines gets started Mexico can loosen their visa restrictions for Lebanse citizens when visiting. Exciting times for AM thats for sure, and do like them being a little agressive lately.
 
Cedric13
Topic Author
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:48 pm

Adipocere wrote:
Would the US allow a flight originating in BEY even overfly US airspace without an intermediate security check in a trusted EU country (like PIA security stop in MAN).

Yes the US even allows a plane departing Beirut to land in any state or a plane leaving any state to land in Beirut but the flight must have a special government approval.
There have been multiple direct BEY-JFK-BEY flights the last couple of years. Last month an Atlas Air 747 visited BEY twice direct from JFK and MEA had a one off roundtrip flight to JFK for UN week.
 
dcajet
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:22 pm

Cedric13 wrote:
There have been multiple direct BEY-JFK-BEY flights the last couple of years. Last month an Atlas Air 747 visited BEY twice direct from JFK and MEA had a one off roundtrip flight to JFK for UN week.


Again, it is not flights leaving the US that are the problem, be them cargo or passenger flights. It's the opposite direction that is the problem. We are talking about regular, scheduled services here.

Flights for the UN Yearly Assembly are government VIP flights and other rules apply, but you surely knew that, didn't you? The most bizarre planes appear in the NYC area during that week.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Adipocere
Posts: 323
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:01 am

GSP psgr wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
Would the US allow a flight originating in BEY even overfly US airspace without an intermediate security check in a trusted EU country (like PIA security stop in MAN).


Looking at the flight path of today's AC85 (TLV-YYZ), I'm pretty sure that AC wouldn't have to transit US airspace on a BEY-YUL with a 787.


I agree a flight from the Middle East to Canada can find a way to avoid US airspace. But we are talking about MEX which is far enough west, that I can't imagine how an airliner from the Middle East could avoid overflying US airspace - unless they route it way over the mid-Atlantic, over Bermuda, Bahamas, Cuba and the Gulf.
 
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TheRedBaron
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:29 am

The westbound leg of this "imaginary" direct flight is on the limit of a 788 can do I bet any kind of headwind would make it divert. Divert= Money pit

Nice codeshare if it happens, direct with AM metal, I don't think so.

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ME720
Posts: 181
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Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:47 am

ME Will probably code share with all skyteam
Airlines operating from Lat Am to MAdrid. Their newly launched flights to MAD should work, and hopefully they will eventually increase frequencies.
Flights with own metal to BEY of any Lat Am carrier will not work.. the only way I can see it work is with a stop in Madrid and codesharing with MEA on both legs getting 5th freedom MAD to BEY, would have worked had MEA not launched their own flights to MAD. The idea is that they will code share to LAT AM from MAD.
 
Cedric13
Topic Author
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: Aeromexico looking to launch flights to Beirut

Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:45 am

dcajet wrote:
Cedric13 wrote:
There have been multiple direct BEY-JFK-BEY flights the last couple of years. Last month an Atlas Air 747 visited BEY twice direct from JFK and MEA had a one off roundtrip flight to JFK for UN week.


Again, it is not flights leaving the US that are the problem, be them cargo or passenger flights. It's the opposite direction that is the problem. We are talking about regular, scheduled services here.

Flights for the UN Yearly Assembly are government VIP flights and other rules apply, but you surely knew that, didn't you? The most bizarre planes appear in the NYC area during that week.

He was saying that flights leaving Beirut won’t be allowed to enter US airspace on flights to YUL and I said that there have been some direct flights to the US. I never said that there will be a scheduled service. I know exactly what type of planes appear at JFK during UN week.

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