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- 727glasair
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Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
With the significant sales success of Embraer recently, the question arises: Did Boeing ever consider a 60-80 seat modern airliner? Back in about 2002 if they could have seen the future, would Boeing have designed a smaller commercial jet to meet this market?
Re: Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
Simple answer is no. Boeing's smallest plane is nearly 2x the size of the EMB. Boeing and Airbus are where the money is.
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- 32andBelow
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Re: Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
No. Bombardier did.
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- intotheair
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Re: Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
I don't know to what extent Boeing considered developing its own RJ, but Boeing did own DeHavilland Canada for a hot minute before Bombardier took over...
Re: Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
The original CRJ is said to have had some Boeing input. Then Boeing decided to not compete in this segment and moved away from Bombardier.
Re: Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
727glasair wrote:With the significant sales success of Embraer recently, the question arises: Did Boeing ever consider a 60-80 seat modern airliner? Back in about 2002 if they could have seen the future, would Boeing have designed a smaller commercial jet to meet this market?
I strongly doubt that I would have considered one... that market has always been left to Bombardier and Embraer.
While they sold strongly at first, these days they're not selling well, just take a look at the E175-E2 order book - 100 orders from a single customer. And 228 in total for the whole family isn't great, either. The CRJ has even less on order.
I would have thought Boeing was busy concentrating on improvements for its existing 737 NG family at that time, which was already selling well. Same goes for Airbus.
Re: Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
In 1998 Boeing started marketing the 717/MD95 as its "regional jet" offering.
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/1998-01-08-Boeing-Introduces-717-200-Airplane-as-New-Regional-Jet
Then in 2000, Boeing studied and rejected offering a shortened 717 with 86 seats in two classes.
http://articles.latimes.com/2000/oct/19/business/fi-38737
http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/2000/2000-1%20-%201298.PDF
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-aims-for-december-decision-on-717-100x-123016/
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/1998-01-08-Boeing-Introduces-717-200-Airplane-as-New-Regional-Jet
Then in 2000, Boeing studied and rejected offering a shortened 717 with 86 seats in two classes.
http://articles.latimes.com/2000/oct/19/business/fi-38737
http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/2000/2000-1%20-%201298.PDF
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-aims-for-december-decision-on-717-100x-123016/
Re: Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
There's somewhat of a myth on here that manufacturers need to offer planes in every market segment.
Boeing & Airbus have decidedly abandoned/ignored the <100 seat market (and, realistically these days, the <150 seat market, notwithstanding Airbus's partnership for the CSeries, which cost them effectively nothing).
Boeing made a half-hearted attempt with the 717 shrink, but has otherwise decided that the market for planes that small isn't worth the investment in a new model. The engineering resources (which are finite) are (and were) better deployed keeping the 737 up to date (selling thousands upon thousands of copies) and developing new 777 variants and the 787, vs. selling a few hundred small regional jets that come with a much lower price tag and have much more competition (Bombardier, Embraer, plus other manufacturers back then, such as Dornier, and/or newer competition today such as the MRJ and even SSJ).
To put things in perspective, one year's production of the 737 is roughly 500 planes (well, just shy of that), and that almost equals the entire delivery history of the E175.
Boeing & Airbus have decidedly abandoned/ignored the <100 seat market (and, realistically these days, the <150 seat market, notwithstanding Airbus's partnership for the CSeries, which cost them effectively nothing).
Boeing made a half-hearted attempt with the 717 shrink, but has otherwise decided that the market for planes that small isn't worth the investment in a new model. The engineering resources (which are finite) are (and were) better deployed keeping the 737 up to date (selling thousands upon thousands of copies) and developing new 777 variants and the 787, vs. selling a few hundred small regional jets that come with a much lower price tag and have much more competition (Bombardier, Embraer, plus other manufacturers back then, such as Dornier, and/or newer competition today such as the MRJ and even SSJ).
To put things in perspective, one year's production of the 737 is roughly 500 planes (well, just shy of that), and that almost equals the entire delivery history of the E175.
Re: Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
jghealey wrote:While they sold strongly at first, these days they're not selling well, just take a look at the E175-E2 order book - 100 orders from a single customer. And 228 in total for the whole family isn't great, either.
You are puting everything at the same basket.
The E175-E1 has 618 firm orders and 150 options with 107 orders due to be delivered.
The latest order was made by American Airlines on May 3, 2018 for 15 E175-E1.
And even though the E175-E2 maybe not be operated by US regionals due to scope clauses, Embraer has already made it clear that it will keep both E1 and E2 assembly lines in parallel.
Regardless of the American market, the E175-E2 should make its first flight in mid-2019.
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- jetskipper
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Re: Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
As odd as it sounds, I think the US major airlines would have had a much harder time getting the pilot unions to allow the regional carriers to fly a Boeing ### versus an Embraer 170/175. Embraers we’re already known as RJs, Boeings as mainline.
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- petertenthije
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Re: Did Boeing miss out? Success of Embraer E-175
Neither Boeing nor Airbus had any interest in the market.
In rapd succesion the Avro ARJ, Fokker 70/100 and Dornier 728/928 programmes were available for pennies on the dollar.
Clearly, both Boeing and Airbus felt their resources were better spend on other projects.
In rapd succesion the Avro ARJ, Fokker 70/100 and Dornier 728/928 programmes were available for pennies on the dollar.
Clearly, both Boeing and Airbus felt their resources were better spend on other projects.
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