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Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:43 am
by planemanofnz
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Dubai is a transfer airport. Doesnt really seem like a shock.

IMO, DXB seems like more of a destination that would suit them with a 321NEO / LR (if they ever get some). The 321NEO / LR would also work to LOS, as well as several US destinations.

Cheers,

C.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:05 am
by LH658
What about Islamabad? How good is Virgin Atlantic frequent flyer program? What airlines do they codeshare/partner with other than Delta?

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:08 am
by behramjee
DL747400 wrote:
I wonder how the aircraft and LHR slot will be repurposed?


I wonder too as it’s a night time departure from LHR so that rules out trans-Atlantic possibilities.

The only other option I see remotely fitting in is VS adding an additional daily frequency into India with DL 9W cooperation.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:14 am
by soflaflyer
Eirules wrote:
I really do wonder if VS have a long term future - especially once DL & AFKL have majority ownership and therefore control. Is it worth keeping the Virgin Brand and the royalty fees that entails for a loss making airline?



I would assume this has more to do with LHR slots than anything, although the VS brand is valuable particularly from a UK POS. Could DL/AF/KL assume operation of all of the LHR slots without the VS brand or is there a restriction?

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:48 am
by DL747400
behramjee wrote:
The only other option I see remotely fitting in is VS adding an additional daily frequency into India with DL 9W cooperation.


Agreed. That makes a lot of sense! However it is used, I suspect that it will offer VS greater revenue potential than DXB.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:07 am
by LH658
I think it should start Bahrain, partner up with Gulf Air.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:25 am
by MalevTU134
LH658 wrote:
I think it should start Bahrain, partner up with Gulf Air.

Why, the Islamabad Airport isn't new enough now, all of a sudden?...

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:25 am
by lhrsfosyd
LHR-TLV

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:28 am
by dz09
maybe the demand for travel to the UAE has gone down. until last year, I used to make at least 10 visits to the UAE a year. I have not done a single trip there this year. I'm in the oil & gas business and there is hardly any new business there. the cost of living has gone up substantially and the addition of the VAT is harming what used to be a very attractive place in terms of business and leisure. the economy may not be all that rosy.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:57 am
by MON
Regarding ICN flight, flew this route this week, flight totally full, as normal this time of year. Mix throughout the year by Korean daily 380/748/777, Asiana daily 350/777 and BA 787 daily from LHR. Comment as regards an earlier connecting flight would be hugely beneficial to KE connections.

It would not be using the LHR slot but a MAN-ICN would also posibly have great potential?

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:44 am
by Richard28
lhrsfosyd wrote:
LHR-TLV



The timings are all wrong for that, you would arrive in TLV at the dead of night, and it would be far to late leaving LHR meaning a long layover for most of the VS transatlantic flights arriving in LHR.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:10 am
by Andy33
soflaflyer wrote:
Eirules wrote:
I really do wonder if VS have a long term future - especially once DL & AFKL have majority ownership and therefore control. Is it worth keeping the Virgin Brand and the royalty fees that entails for a loss making airline?



I would assume this has more to do with LHR slots than anything, although the VS brand is valuable particularly from a UK POS. Could DL/AF/KL assume operation of all of the LHR slots without the VS brand or is there a restriction?


None of the LHR slots VS currently holds are restricted, they could be transferred to other airlines at will. The remaining non-TATL destinations may have restrictions of a different sort though, in that for at least some the Air Service Agreements are purely bilateral between the UK and the destination country. So if the LHR slots were transferred to other non-UK-registered airlines, some of these routes would have to go.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:21 am
by Spiderguy252
VTORD wrote:
How did IT do with their A330 flight when they were operating LHR? 3 x Weekly on A330 just to test the waters?


IIRC they did get their fair share of connections to CMB on that flight.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:37 am
by LH658
MalevTU134 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
I think it should start Bahrain, partner up with Gulf Air.

Why, the Islamabad Airport isn't new enough now, all of a sudden?...


Islamabad not bad option as it would provide another link for people going to USA, Europe, and UK another option to Pakistan. I am sure there is ton of cargo between Europe/UK and Pakistan, and I am sure tons of business folks from Europe/UK that travel to PK as there many commonwealth ties. Delta can also code share on this flight as well, since US government workers have to fly US metal or codeshare flights. Islamabad is safe city, compared to rest of country, and has stability.

Bahrain wouldn't be bad either, as they can codeshare with Gulf Air, Bahrain is financial hub just like London. I am sure Gulf Air also wants more traffic share into the UK to get back with competing levels of EK, TK, and QR. Plus Virgin can send pax via Bahrain to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Middle East/Africa, and Thailand.

I am not sure how Virgin Atlantic mileage is setup, all that. Obviously there future destinations kinda depend on that.

Though Bahrian, Tokyo, Singapore, Islamabad, or another India destination would be nice.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:53 am
by parapente
With the exception of Delhi and the 2Chinese connections they really are Virgin 'Atlantic' (I think the African destinations can count as Atlantic).They have the Caribbean well covered perhaps a direct (Atlantic) flight to Rio or Sau Paulo?AIG seem to concentrate on Madrid for this area.
As for the Eastern destinations,is it worth it with so few (now)?

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:17 am
by ZuluTime
Forgive my frustration, but does anyone actually read the posts further up the thread? The DXB slots are going to fund the second daily BOS flight already announced for Summer 2019. Not ISB, ICN or anything else.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:20 am
by vhtje
Talk about putting the 'Atlantic' back into 'Virgin Atlantic'

I can now only count 5 destinations east of LON

Shall we take bets on which of those 5 will be next on the chopping block? My money is on LOS

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:24 am
by Arion640
ZuluTime wrote:
Forgive my frustration, but does anyone actually read the posts further up the thread? The DXB slots are going to fund the second daily BOS flight already announced for Summer 2019. Not ISB, ICN or anything else.


How does a BOS service fit into those slot times?

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:50 am
by lhrsfosyd
I would think PVG would be next to get a chop.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:51 am
by Spiderguy252
"Make Virgin Atlantic again"? :mrgreen:

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:53 am
by flyjay123
Arion640 wrote:
ZuluTime wrote:
Forgive my frustration, but does anyone actually read the posts further up the thread? The DXB slots are going to fund the second daily BOS flight already announced for Summer 2019. Not ISB, ICN or anything else.


How does a BOS service fit into those slot times?



My thoughts exactly!

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:08 am
by LHR01
LH658 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
I think it should start Bahrain, partner up with Gulf Air.

Why, the Islamabad Airport isn't new enough now, all of a sudden?...


Islamabad not bad option as it would provide another link for people going to USA, Europe, and UK another option to Pakistan. I am sure there is ton of cargo between Europe/UK and Pakistan, and I am sure tons of business folks from Europe/UK that travel to PK as there many commonwealth ties. Delta can also code share on this flight as well, since US government workers have to fly US metal or codeshare flights. Islamabad is safe city, compared to rest of country, and has stability.

Bahrain wouldn't be bad either, as they can codeshare with Gulf Air, Bahrain is financial hub just like London. I am sure Gulf Air also wants more traffic share into the UK to get back with competing levels of EK, TK, and QR. Plus Virgin can send pax via Bahrain to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Middle East/Africa, and Thailand.

I am not sure how Virgin Atlantic mileage is setup, all that. Obviously there future destinations kinda depend on that.

Though Bahrian, Tokyo, Singapore, Islamabad, or another India destination would be nice.


Don't forget when BA used to operate into LHR-ISB, Virgin were also interested to start ISB. However due to political reasons nothing progressed further..
With the new airport now opened, Pakistan is a HUGE market and European airlines are missing out big time..

BA used to operate 3x weekly on there 777 and then within months they upgraded 6x weekly using the 747!

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:21 am
by jumbojet
enilria wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Virgin Atlantic will be ending its flights to Dubai in a review of the its network. VS last flight will be scheduled on 31MAR19. The airline has stated that several factors has lead to the decision to withdraw the route. Reservations to Dubai will be open until the last flight.

Since Delta effectively controls VS, it's odd since Delta said the settlement with UAE fixed everything! :stirthepot:
mutu wrote:
Also any feed at LHR may be from DL who are opening up direct to DXB?

I'll believe that when I see it. IMHO, they can't return unless they reinstate the interline agreement with EK because it was 30% of the passengers they were carrying to DXB. They won't reinstate it because it is of more value to EK at DL hubs in the USA than to DL for one route to DXB.


OMG. Delta DOES NOT control VS. Pleaseeeeeee……….

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:34 am
by ZuluTime
VS still has multiple slots leased out to other carriers late afternoon at LHR and a portfolio of slots for evening departures within which slot swaps to move the 22:00 VS401 departure to 20:30 would be achieved. Very straightforward and there is some latitude to move slots late in the day at LHR if you already have one - the annual ATM limit is a constraint.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:08 am
by Flying Belgian
I assume LHR-U.S flights are the only real cash cows for VS, and have always been.

It's much harder to earn good yields on a LHR-DXB route gievn the ME3 competition... (GF replacing QR in that precise assessment).

As to an A333 replacement by an A321LR, don't forget what you loose in cargo capacity...

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:27 am
by JamesCousins
planemanofnz wrote:
Eirules wrote:
Very disappointing to continue to see the continued shrinking of the VS map. SYD, CUN, CPT, now DXB.

Don't forget TYO too.

Cheers,

C.


I can;t decide whether I agree with the above or not. The map may be shrinking, but the fleet is actually growing. VS has seemed like an airline lacking direction at times, and whilst DL definitely have power to push buttons behind the scenes, why would any business operate a route that is just not profitable anymore, or far less profitable than an alternative.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:29 am
by directorguy
Even if VS was not moving the DXB slot to BOS I doubt anyone in their right mind would cut DXB to start BAH. BAH stopped being a financial hub over a decade ago and corporate traffic is loyal to BA or GF.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:59 pm
by Aax1
VS are not using this slot for BOS! You would arrive into BOS around 2/3am which no one would want to do, the extra BOS flight is a morning slot currently used by DL.

I reckon they have got something else up their sleeve, I can't see them using this slot for anything and will just lease it to another airline. West is certainly 'best' for VS with the new DL/KL/AF partnership. I can see them sticking to flying over the sea they're named after to the Americas and Africa.

AUS seems logical and maybe we will see VS take over some DL routes such as SLC/PDX or switch CVG to LHR as it makes more sense than CDG. If they were to use this late evening slot I believe it will be a Central/South American destination.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:13 pm
by LHRFlyer
I don’t see VS launching any new eastbound routes.

It takes a lot of investment to launch a new route and VS clearly seems focused on North America and tactically adding capacity where appropriate.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:14 pm
by MalevTU134
directorguy wrote:
Even if VS was not moving the DXB slot to BOS I doubt anyone in their right mind would cut DXB to start BAH. BAH stopped being a financial hub over a decade ago and corporate traffic is loyal to BA or GF.

Exactlyyyy.
But then again, the people pushing for BAH in this thread are the same ones advocating for ISB due to "loads of businessmen" going there. The truth is, Pakistan's economy is in the toilet, and has been for years. Add to that the security situation and I am sure there are dozens and dozens of other destinations that give a lot better return on investment. And, as has been said above, all this is moot, as plane and slots got to a new flight to BOS.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:18 pm
by MalevTU134
Aax1 wrote:
VS are not using this slot for BOS! You would arrive into BOS around 2/3am which no one would want to do, the extra BOS flight is a morning slot currently used by DL.

I reckon they have got something else up their sleeve, I can't see them using this slot for anything and will just lease it to another airline. West is certainly 'best' for VS with the new DL/KL/AF partnership. I can see them sticking to flying over the sea they're named after to the Americas and Africa.

AUS seems logical and maybe we will see VS take over some DL routes such as SLC/PDX or switch CVG to LHR as it makes more sense than CDG. If they were to use this late evening slot I believe it will be a Central/South American destination.

As has been explained, there is flexibility in using these slots. VS can "play around" with its slots, so as to operate the BOS flight.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:26 pm
by Aax1
The second BOS flight operates on the 31st, the last DXB still operates on the 31st so there is a day overlap, can't be the replacement?

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:12 pm
by TSA125
UAL777UK wrote:
Only a matter of time IMHO. Frequency has got to come into it here. One flight a day against, is it three for BA and god knows how many for EK has to play a factor surely. looks like ORD all over again for VS.

That's an interesting point you bring up. Is frequency really that great a factor in these instances? Considering VS was flying in during rush times to both DXB and ORD.

Also, does Delta/Skyteam have any stake in this sort of route, and do they codeshare in any way? Or are those only for TATL crossings?

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:57 pm
by 3AWM
Aax1 wrote:
The second BOS flight operates on the 31st, the last DXB still operates on the 31st so there is a day overlap, can't be the replacement?


DXB-LHR flies on the 31st and lands at LHR in the afternoon. In the evening it flies to BOS.

The plane doesn't get a day off just because it's flying a new route tomorrow.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:21 pm
by LH658
directorguy wrote:
Even if VS was not moving the DXB slot to BOS I doubt anyone in their right mind would cut DXB to start BAH. BAH stopped being a financial hub over a decade ago and corporate traffic is loyal to BA or GF.



That's why I said, Virgin should partner with Gulf Air.... I am pretty sure Gulf Air trying make comeback into the market, wouldn't be idea for Virgin to offer a option the east. Not just financial traffic,but also Energy traffic. Plenty of people get off in Bahrain, and head to Dammam.

Of course were gunna, have haters when someone throws in a Pakistani city, fact is there is a market whether the economy is in the toilet or not. When you go to PK you can observe yourself. Just solely on the commonwealth connection, drives a lot of business between the two countries.
I also put out they should start or restart NRT/HND, ISB, BLR, or SIN.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:20 pm
by flydude380
I knew this day will come. Sad indeed. How long till DEL is dropped?

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:52 am
by Cunard
LH658 wrote:
What about Islamabad? How good is Virgin Atlantic frequent flyer program? What airlines do they codeshare/partner with other than Delta?



Surely the airlines name as in VIRGIN might be an issue if they ever intended flying to Pakistan!

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:55 am
by artofzen
VS and BMI were both planninng to serve Pakistan but nothing came of it, rumor was they wwere denied permission.

Virgin did fly a 744 to Islamabad in 2005 with quake relief aid, and their A343 and A346 had diverrted to Lahore and Karachi at times related to weather at Delhi.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:57 am
by Cunard
artofzen wrote:
VS and BMI were both planninng to serve Pakistan but nothing came of it, rumor was they wwere denied permission.

Virgin did fly a 744 to Islamabad in 2005 with quake relief aid, and their A343 and A346 had diverrted to Lahore and Karachi at times related to weather at Delhi.


I was under the impression that when VS were denied permission to fly to Pakistan several years ago it was purely down to the airlines name and if I remember correctly Sir Richard Branson actually commented on it being an issue in it's application with the Pakistani authorities.

I can't comment on why BMI we're denied.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:03 am
by artofzen
LHR01 wrote:

BA used to operate 3x weekly on there 777 and then within months they upgraded 6x weekly using the 747!

It was 3 weekly 772 upgauged later to 744, and then changed to 6 weekly 772.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:04 am
by LH658
Cunard wrote:
LH658 wrote:
What about Islamabad? How good is Virgin Atlantic frequent flyer program? What airlines do they codeshare/partner with other than Delta?



Surely the airlines name as in VIRGIN might be an issue if they ever intended flying to Pakistan!


I am sure name like British Airways will raise some red flags, but nothing ever happened! I guess you guys just believe CNN to much. If airline like Norwegian has been looking at Pakistan, so can Virgin.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:18 am
by LH658
How is Virgin Manchester operations?

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:28 am
by LH658
viewtopic.php?t=384485

remember this thread....

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:29 am
by GSP psgr
What about a LHR-GRU in partnership with GOL? Would give options for South America to VS customers.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:57 am
by yellowtail
VS. LHR MEX would work and supplement AM nicely

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:07 am
by artofzen
Cunard wrote:
artofzen wrote:
VS and BMI were both planninng to serve Pakistan but nothing came of it, rumor was they wwere denied permission.

Virgin did fly a 744 to Islamabad in 2005 with quake relief aid, and their A343 and A346 had diverrted to Lahore and Karachi at times related to weather at Delhi.


I was under the impression that when VS were denied permission to fly to Pakistan several years ago it was purely down to the airlines name and if I remember correctly Sir Richard Branson actually commented on it being an issue in it's application with the Pakistani authorities.

I can't comment on why BMI we're denied.

But Extra Virgin Olive oil is sold all over here, and proudly advertised on TV even in conservative areas.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:16 am
by DobboDobbo
LH658 wrote:
How is Virgin Manchester operations?


I think it's fair to say the picture is mixed.

On the one hand, the seat capacity continues to increase reasonably quickly on a year to year basis. They continue to open new routes (LAX) and increase frequencies to existing ones (LAS, BOS). There is a partnership with Jet, and a clear desire to route India-USA traffic via MAN. It is not unreasonable to think that VS might launch MAN-DEL (if Jet do not do so beforehand).

On the other hand, there are clear issues caused by VS's B789 problems, many of the new routes remain seasonal and relatively low (3-4x weekly) frequency. Even the thicker routes (e.g. ATL/JFK) have low winter frequency because of the need to use the B744 in the short term. Also, it looks like SFO has been cut in favour of LAX but this has not been officially confirmed (as far as I can tell although this may be wrong).

In summary, the long term prospects for VS at MAN look fairly positive and MAN can expect a reasonable growth in frequencies and route options from VS - particularly TATL. It may be that the JV sees a niche that can be exploited, and I'd not be surprised if KE add MAN to their network in the next year or two. However, for this to be realised, the B789 issue needs a positive resolution as the A333/332 fleet is pretty much ideal for the Manchester market.

Hope this helps.

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:05 pm
by winGl3t
GSP psgr wrote:
What about a LHR-GRU in partnership with GOL? Would give options for South America to VS customers.


I personally believe it is a strong possibility

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:11 pm
by OMAAbound
As has been posted earlier, the slots for this will be used to work the second daily Boston flight.

As far as I am aware, the slots have been traded with another airline too accommodate the Boston.

It’s not known who these slots have been traded with, but the rumours doing the round in the office, is that it’s too do with the ‘Little Red’ service which was discontinued a few years ago. (Use your brain and it’s not hard to work out)

Hopefully this clears things up.

OMAA

Re: Virgin Atlantic drops Dubai

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:46 pm
by Cunard
OMAAbound wrote:
As has been posted earlier, the slots for this will be used to work the second daily Boston flight.

As far as I am aware, the slots have been traded with another airline too accommodate the Boston.

It’s not known who these slots have been traded with, but the rumours doing the round in the office, is that it’s too do with the ‘Little Red’ service which was discontinued a few years ago. (Use your brain and it’s not hard to work out)

Hopefully this clears things up.

OMAA


''Hopefully this clears things up''

Not really when you state ''(Use your brain and it's not hard to work out)''

How does that last comment ''hopefully clears things up'' when it's so vague!

Of course I've got a brain and I'm aware of what your referring to but there are probably others who haven't got a clue to what your referring too.

So for the sake of others can you be a bit more precise rather than your vagueness as not to confuse others because your comment didn't ''clear things up'' at all!

I know that you work for VS but your comments always come across as if your the one responsible for cleaning the tanks rather than being in a higher position onboard the aircraft!