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axiom
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:05 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised none of the international LLCs have tried SJC. It's only about 35 miles from SFO. While SJC is thus 35 miles farther from the city of San Francisco and Napa and Sonoma Wine Country, it's closer to other attractions like Paso Robles Wine Country, Santa Cruz, Monterey, Carmel, Big Sur, Hearst Castle, Yosemite, etc.


It's a little weird there's more Asia service than Europe; are there any other US airports like that?


SJC has 2 flights to Europe and 3 to Asia. I don’t believe PVG is daily either. It really isn’t that much of a difference.

SLC is at the extreme though. Up to 4 flights to Europe and none to Asia.


It's not terribly extreme for cities to have multiple services to Europe and limited to none to Asia. Look at the big Florida airports, for example. MCO has 19 routes to Europe, but one to Asia (if one counts EK/DXB). MIA has 30 to Europe, and 2 to Asia (again, counting TLV and DOH as Asia). TPA has 5 transatlantic routes, but none to Asia. That SJC should have a balance between east and west is unique, particularly for a non-hub airport.
 
nmdrdh787
Posts: 185
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Re: BA not resuming OAK

Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:08 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised none of the international LLCs have tried SJC. It's only about 35 miles from SFO. While SJC is thus 35 miles farther from the city of San Francisco and Napa and Sonoma Wine Country, it's closer to other attractions like Paso Robles Wine Country, Santa Cruz, Monterey, Carmel, Big Sur, Hearst Castle, Yosemite, etc.


It's a little weird there's more Asia service than Europe; are there any other US airports like that?


SJC has 2 flights to Europe and 3 to Asia. I don’t believe PVG is daily either. It really isn’t that much of a difference.

SLC is at the extreme though. Up to 4 flights to Europe and none to Asia.


I thought SLC was restricted because of the summer hot and heavy, and DL doesn't really have a plane there that is good for NRT?

Also, I was going to say "Plot twist: LEVEL opens a LGW base and starts LGW-OAK", but then I realized they are moving BCN to SFO...

I wonder if someone like Condor can give it a shot. They sell FRA-SEA-OAK right now, wondering if this fits into their model or not. Thomas Cook already serves SFO, WOWair serves SFO too... not sure how many more LCC/holiday euro carriers there are other than the ones that already serve the Bay area, and Joon, Eurowings, TUI, Edelweiss...

What I think would be an interesting addition is a JetStar,Air Asia X, Scoot like carrier from Asia. Total fantasy because of yields and route length, but if either got 5th freedom rights, they could make it work (KUL-KIX-OAK anyone?).

Azul from Brazil?

There is also the relaunch of World Airways, which is doing a Long Haul LCC model too... https://thepointsguy.com/news/world-air ... ll-it-fly/ . Would be interesting if they make something of OAK.

Just some random ideas.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5335
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:29 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:

It's a little weird there's more Asia service than Europe; are there any other US airports like that?


SJC has 2 flights to Europe and 3 to Asia. I don’t believe PVG is daily either. It really isn’t that much of a difference.

SLC is at the extreme though. Up to 4 flights to Europe and none to Asia.


I thought SLC was restricted because of the summer hot and heavy, and DL doesn't really have a plane there that is good for NRT?

Also, I was going to say "Plot twist: LEVEL opens a LGW base and starts LGW-OAK", but then I realized they are moving BCN to SFO...

I wonder if someone like Condor can give it a shot. They sell FRA-SEA-OAK right now, wondering if this fits into their model or not. Thomas Cook already serves SFO, WOWair serves SFO too... not sure how many more LCC/holiday euro carriers there are other than the ones that already serve the Bay area, and Joon, Eurowings, TUI, Edelweiss...

What I think would be an interesting addition is a JetStar,Air Asia X, Scoot like carrier from Asia. Total fantasy because of yields and route length, but if either got 5th freedom rights, they could make it work (KUL-KIX-OAK anyone?).

Azul from Brazil?

There is also the relaunch of World Airways, which is doing a Long Haul LCC model too... https://thepointsguy.com/news/world-air ... ll-it-fly/ . Would be interesting if they make something of OAK.

Just some random ideas.


Even with the departure of Level and BA, I don't think OAK can handle any more international flights. They are already moving airplanes all over gates because Norwegian has like 3 flights at one time, along with Azores in the summer, and WN and Volaris with their Mexico flights.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4776
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:44 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
If BA leaves OAK, then it might be good for it to check how viable is a LGW-SMF.
SMF might well be marketed as yet another Bay Area / Napa region airport as OAK.


Sacramento is ~80 miles from the Bay Area and traffic can be horrendous. No amount of marketing can cover that fact.

For the average European tourist the big draw in the Bay Area is San Francisco. Napa caters to a more upmarket type of tourism; SFO/OAK are as close - if not closer - to Napa/Sonoma than SMF. If BA can't make ends meet at OAK, how do you think things will turn out at SMF?
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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usdcaguy
Posts: 1559
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:45 pm

Seems like there would be other cities that would be more viable than another San Francisco airport, but they already fly to most major metropolitan areas in the US with business links. What about PIT?
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:45 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised none of the international LLCs have tried SJC. It's only about 35 miles from SFO. While SJC is thus 35 miles farther from the city of San Francisco and Napa and Sonoma Wine Country, it's closer to other attractions like Paso Robles Wine Country, Santa Cruz, Monterey, Carmel, Big Sur, Hearst Castle, Yosemite, etc.


Closer to South Bay/Monterey destinations, but that's still a smaller draw than SF proper + points north and east. OAK had the space for Norwegian, is more plausibly marketed as "Oakland-San Francisco" and draws from a larger population base to begin with. It's still a little surprising WOW or Condor or someone like that hasn't tried SJC.
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:25 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised none of the international LLCs have tried SJC. It's only about 35 miles from SFO. While SJC is thus 35 miles farther from the city of San Francisco and Napa and Sonoma Wine Country, it's closer to other attractions like Paso Robles Wine Country, Santa Cruz, Monterey, Carmel, Big Sur, Hearst Castle, Yosemite, etc.


Closer to South Bay/Monterey destinations, but that's still a smaller draw than SF proper + points north and east. OAK had the space for Norwegian, is more plausibly marketed as "Oakland-San Francisco" and draws from a larger population base to begin with. It's still a little surprising WOW or Condor or someone like that hasn't tried SJC.


Yes. European tourists may very well visit all those other places, but most of them want to start their trip in San Francisco and end in LA (or vice versa) with stops along the way. If you're going to be visiting San Francisco at the beginning or end of your trip, then SJC isn't really all that convenient. SFO and OAK are both much closer to downtown SF than SJC whether taking BART or God forbid if you're trying to do it by rental car or taxi.
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AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
dcajet
Posts: 4776
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:06 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
Seems like there would be other cities that would be more viable than another San Francisco airport, but they already fly to most major metropolitan areas in the US with business links. What about PIT?


BA used to fly to PIT back in the 90s when it had some ownership of US Air, using the latter's 762ER painted with the BA livery. PIT currently supports a DL 757 to CDG, not sure if there is room for another Europe connection. Since US pulled back its hub at PIT, the airport is a shadow of its former self. Bit like CVG.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:22 am

dcajet wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
Seems like there would be other cities that would be more viable than another San Francisco airport, but they already fly to most major metropolitan areas in the US with business links. What about PIT?


BA used to fly to PIT back in the 90s when it had some ownership of US Air, using the latter's 762ER painted with the BA livery. PIT currently supports a DL 757 to CDG, not sure if there is room for another Europe connection. Since US pulled back its hub at PIT, the airport is a shadow of its former self. Bit like CVG.


British Airways also flew to PIT with there own metal after their partnership with US ended using B767-300 and if I remember correctly PIT also received the first ever revenue flight for British Airways on their first B747-400 that was delivered to the airline.

Pittsburgh and St Louis are the two obvious candidates for British Airways expansion in the USA but I would think that both of those destinations would be a better fit from LHR.

Possible destinations for replacing Oakland could possibly see further expansion into South America such as Panama City or Quito which suit the British Airways route portfolio from LGW.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4776
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:11 am

Cunard wrote:
Possible destinations for replacing Oakland could possibly see further expansion into South America such as Panama City or Quito which suit the British Airways route portfolio from LGW.


UIO seems like an odd choice, given that BA can't make LIM (a much larger market) work year-round from LGW. I'd think they'd try BOG (or return to, rather) first. PTY could work. LH is increasing its FRA-PTY flights to 6x w.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:38 pm

I don't see BA returning to BOG yet as Avianca has that route to their own at LHR, BOG also being a large Star Alliance hub it would be difficult for BA to re enter that market.

I quoted UIO because Equador is increasingly becoming popular as a tourist destination especially the Galápagos Islands plus there is a fair amount of belly cargo from UIO to Europe which several European airlines already serve so the possibility of BA starting UIO isn't too far fetched in my opinion.

Whether they do or not is another thing but when your looking at where BA will fly to from LGW replacing OAK I guess that you have to look out of the box in a similar way as to when the airline initially announced LGW to LIM.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: BA not resuming OAK

Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:47 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised none of the international LLCs have tried SJC. It's only about 35 miles from SFO. While SJC is thus 35 miles farther from the city of San Francisco and Napa and Sonoma Wine Country, it's closer to other attractions like Paso Robles Wine Country, Santa Cruz, Monterey, Carmel, Big Sur, Hearst Castle, Yosemite, etc.


Closer to South Bay/Monterey destinations, but that's still a smaller draw than SF proper + points north and east. OAK had the space for Norwegian, is more plausibly marketed as "Oakland-San Francisco" and draws from a larger population base to begin with. It's still a little surprising WOW or Condor or someone like that hasn't tried SJC.


My San Jose friends are flying to Europe next month - outbound from SFO on WOW and return on Norwegian to OAK. Saving a lot of money to make it worth the hassle to get to and from those airports.

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