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Tugger
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:07 pm

toobz wrote:
Mbmbos obviously is driving a certain agenda himself here. bottom line, if you cannot or are not willing to comply with crew member instructions, drive or stay home. Too many people are all about “me and my f’n rights”. It’s getting really old. If you comply with federal law and crew member instructions, you will find yourself getting to your destination just fine. If you want to test your rights on an aircraft, that’s up to u.

I always test my "rights" and interestingly I have always found myself getting to my destination just fine.

Absolutes are a poor way to do a job that is mostly customer service (but of course with safety requirements and absolutes there).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:21 pm

Tugger wrote:
toobz wrote:
Mbmbos obviously is driving a certain agenda himself here. bottom line, if you cannot or are not willing to comply with crew member instructions, drive or stay home. Too many people are all about “me and my f’n rights”. It’s getting really old. If you comply with federal law and crew member instructions, you will find yourself getting to your destination just fine. If you want to test your rights on an aircraft, that’s up to u.

I always test my "rights" and interestingly I have always found myself getting to my destination just fine.

Absolutes are a poor way to do a job that is mostly customer service (but of course with safety requirements and absolutes there).

Tugg

Watching the video again ( thread starter article links to Instagram ) I'm not seeing Nazi tyranny.

I'm seeing a crew member that is calm and reacting to events that happened before the video was started.

What happened before is of course a matter of conjecture.

The crew member says "I know what I heard" so one wonders if there's more to the story.

In any case your testing of your rights might not have gone very well with this particular crew member.
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
739er
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:38 pm

richiemo wrote:
Sorry, but I support the FA here. I am so sick of sitting on airplanes and watching completely ignore FA announcements. People don't put there seats and tray tables up when asked. They stay on their phones. They get out of their seats when the seat belt sign is on. The list is endless. Granted I wasn't there, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that these passengers were asked multiple times. And even if it was once, that should be enough. FAs are human and they must grow weary of people ignoring instructions all due to their self-indulgence. It's a huge problem in our society, complete lack of respect for rules, guidelines etc.


BINGO!!!
 
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Tugger
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:39 pm

Revelation wrote:
Tugger wrote:
toobz wrote:
Mbmbos obviously is driving a certain agenda himself here. bottom line, if you cannot or are not willing to comply with crew member instructions, drive or stay home. Too many people are all about “me and my f’n rights”. It’s getting really old. If you comply with federal law and crew member instructions, you will find yourself getting to your destination just fine. If you want to test your rights on an aircraft, that’s up to u.

I always test my "rights" and interestingly I have always found myself getting to my destination just fine.

Absolutes are a poor way to do a job that is mostly customer service (but of course with safety requirements and absolutes there).

Tugg

Watching the video again ( thread starter article links to Instagram ) I'm not seeing Nazi tyranny.

I'm seeing a crew member that is calm and reacting to events that happened before the video was started.

What happened before is of course a matter of conjecture.

The crew member says "I know what I heard" so one wonders if there's more to the story.

In any case your testing of your rights might not have gone very well with this particular crew member.

Well I am not invoking "Nazi" anything, but I saw the video I do not see an "unsafe" situation, I do not see a professional, trained for addressing customer situations working to deescalate a situation, and additionally other passengers went to bat for the woman and they too were booted. But I do see an FA resolute in her "right" to take power and follow and absolute and remove someone. Do you honestly think she believe she is "saving the aircraft" or increasing safety? Or that she is doing what she has the power to do and no one can argue?

And you are right that this particular crew member is the issue, if it were me in the same situation, not me. It might not "have gone very well" and that is just more proof that she is in the wrong. But then "Might makes right" so it doesn't matter.

That is what I see.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:40 pm

Well, she made it very clear she has ZERO tolerance for passengers with attitude. Five passengers including one kid failed the test. BTW, Which FAA CAR gives this authority. Anyone?

That video should land her a supervisor job at local diner/fast food joint. She is a perfect candidate.
 
739er
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Tugger wrote:
toobz wrote:
Mbmbos obviously is driving a certain agenda himself here. bottom line, if you cannot or are not willing to comply with crew member instructions, drive or stay home. Too many people are all about “me and my f’n rights”. It’s getting really old. If you comply with federal law and crew member instructions, you will find yourself getting to your destination just fine. If you want to test your rights on an aircraft, that’s up to u.

I always test my "rights" and interestingly I have always found myself getting to my destination just fine.

Absolutes are a poor way to do a job that is mostly customer service (but of course with safety requirements and absolutes there).

Tugg


And your flight crew (pilots and flight attendants) follow the rules per FAA and company SOPs to get you to your destination “just fine” as you say. And they do NOT “test” anything that might compromise your and my family’s safety. Now how about showing a little professional courtesy to them.
 
blooc350
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:49 pm

Flight attendants in the United States severely lack in the department of "soft skills" and "passenger handling".
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:51 pm

csavel wrote:
1. Considering so many fellow passengers went to her defense and then were thrown off themselves - while not proving it was the flight attendant's fault (i wasn't there) certainly makes me think the problem lies more with her than with the passenger. I mean if the passenger really had an attitude would all her neighbors start speaking up for her? Naaah doubt it.
2. For people who say "Just do what you're told," well yes, but, ask anyone who has to manage people and the "Shut up and do what you are told" attitude will backfire. Sure you have the power to kick someone off but seriously, I think a lot of people in power *not just FAs in this position* go waay to soon to the "Do what you're told". Sometimes that is unavoidable in emergencies, but I remember once, a guy was getting his car towed in Manhattan and he was *pissed*, tow driver called the cops, one cop was what a cop should be!! He said (kinda paraphrasing - it was a long time ago) "Sir, you might not like the rules but you gotta follow them. I might not like the rules but I gotta enforce them. Once the tow truck hooks up your car it's gonna get towed. Nothing can be done. If you don't leave the car I'll have to pull you out. I really don't want to do that." (guy argues for a bit) "Sir,I understand, but you have to get out. You want to plead not guilty there is a checkbox.. You can fight it all the way to the supreme court, but you have to get out, if you don't I'll have to arrest you. I have no choice in that. Do you really want to take it that far?" Guy got out, still pissed, but he complied.

Point being even people in power have to be diplomats - that is what is being lost in this country. Again, I think it was the F/A who had the problem b/c four other passengers got kicked off for sticking up for her. That just doesn't normally happen.


Well sometimes when a tow truck hooks up to a car it is by mistake. About three months ago a tow truck hooked up my wife's car within five minurs of her going inside a store in a strip mall. Driver said it had been flagged by the license plate scanner in his truck. My wife protested, and the driver asked for he last name, and she showed him the insurance card. The driver then disconnected from the car and left.

A few weeks later while it was at a dealer being serviced, I fmgot a call from a service manager that a towing and repo company had been waiting for the service department to open so they could tow the car. He sent them away, because they didn't have all their paperwork. My wife and I got the original title showing that there are no liens on the car and went by the dealership and got the notes left by the towing company. About 20 minutes after leaving the dealership, I got a call from the service manager. He said the towing company called back and said there was an error and that my car was not the right car. The next day, Saturday, I called the towing company and found out that the scanning system gave a hit, because the car had the same model, color, and license plate number as a car registered in a different state that was on a list.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:09 pm

739er wrote:
And they do NOT “test” anything that might compromise your and my family’s safety.

Now that's BS. And I know because I have spoken directly to and texted my friends who are flying the plane or working in the back. Do you you work in the industry? And I do not think that they are "testing things that will compromise safety of flight" but that is the absolute you are attempting to apply so I am going with that. I knows the crews and people in the industry are professionals and do everything they can in general to be safe and that they do follow the rules, but they are human. (And this can be everything from not doing a go-round when it might be the "safe" thing to do. Yes, will get called by the Chief Pilot and have explain yourself, and you may get reprimanded or worse but the discussion allows all parties to understand what occurred and offer advice for the next time. This is what professionals do. FA's are professionals and must interact with the passengers similarly. That is all I ask.)

739er wrote:
Now how about showing a little professional courtesy to them.

I assure you I do show all people in the industry proper courtesy. I am polite and follow direction but also will question incorrect direction or if I do not understand it etc. The weirdest thing I have found is when I know a rule better than the crew/industry person I am engaged with (and you know it happens). I have to be careful sometimes if/when I challenge or question something and only a few times have I had to "shut up and sit" due being at risk of annoying a crew member. If that happens then after the flight I engage with someone about it and take it where it needs to go.

I do not mean to upset the many awesome people that work in the air nor imply that they all break the rules all the time or compromise safety etc. All I am saying is that consideration is always due in most any situation (emergency situations being the exception), deescalation, understating and working with people to ensure they get to their destination is the most important thing.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
Heinkel
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:18 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
The next day, Saturday, I called the towing company and found out that the scanning system gave a hit, because the car had the same model, color, and license plate number as a car registered in a different state that was on a list.


Interesting to read. So the towing company (a private company) has the right to scan the license plates of cars parked somewhere in a public car park? Is that legal? If yes, you really live in a police state.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:42 pm

Heinkel wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The next day, Saturday, I called the towing company and found out that the scanning system gave a hit, because the car had the same model, color, and license plate number as a car registered in a different state that was on a list.


Interesting to read. So the towing company (a private company) has the right to scan the license plates of cars parked somewhere in a public car park? Is that legal? If yes, you really live in a police state.


They can tow cars parked on streets or publicly accessible parking lots. I called up the owner of the company that owns the shopping center and several other shopping centers in my city. He had his lawyers look into writing a cease and desist letter to the towing company. Given there are over 150 million cars in the US, there are bound to be some duplications of license plate numbers along with make model and color. I was appalled that the tow truck driver started to hook up the car without verifying the VIN number. Quite frankly I was horrified that my wife volunteered her last name to the driver. The driver ought to have to show the documentation not the other way around. Next time I see my state representative, I'll mention this incident. He is the favorite to be elected Speaker in the next session of the legislature, and is a mutual friend of the property owner I mentioned earlier.
 
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mbmbos
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:58 pm

Revelation wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I feel your pain. How did we get to the point where a flight crew member enforcing sensible FAA rules gets labelled as authoritarianism?

And I feel your snark. Really, do passengers deserve the Third Reich treatment when enforcing rules? The passenger complied. Who cares if she gave the FA attitude?

You deserve the snark and more after hitting us with the "Dear God" and "Third Reich" hyperbole.

Watch the piece of video we have and tell us that your reference to Nazism is justified.

We'll wait.



...and you can keep on waiting. Your comments are quite revealing. Nothing more has to be said.
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Dispatcher9999
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:04 pm

Etheereal wrote:
QXAS wrote:
My question is why would anyone not put their phone on Airplane mode? Now if the passenger puts the phone on airplane mode and is still removed, that is ridiculous. But if you’re asked to put your phone on airplane mode, put it on airplane mode. Not doing so is asking for an altercation whether you’re black, white, Latino or anything else.

Because rules are made for everyone else but me. That's 2018 attitude.



I think I used that exact sentence the other day. We are in an age of un-accountability. I’ve not read the article and probably should before passing comment. But how is it these days the ones breaking the rules are the ones who are glorified and stood up for, whilst the ones enforcing them are vilified. It sounds like the FA may have been overly stern, but as said above, maybe a fear of loosing your job on this rule that must be enforced 100% has created said culture at this regional airline.
 
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Faro
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:17 pm

mbmbos wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
The passenger was in the wrong when she decided to make that snarky remark about the FA standing over her. If you keep your mouth shut and listen to the instruction of the crewmember, the situation dissolves. However, it was incredibly unjustifiable to boot five other passengers who stood up for her. It’s a messy situation all the way around.


How authoritarian of you. So you're saying it's okay to kick someone off a plane because they don't show the proper level of deference to a crew member in the crew member's opinion?

Not keeping one's "mouth shut" is not grounds for ejection.



Oh yes it now is.

If you don’t have a detailed, specific list of items that constitute grounds for ejection off a flight, a list that is authoritative, a list which derives from the law, the door is left open to all manner of abuses. Including ejecting people who won’t adopt a deferential, docile attitude to flight attendants.


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:21 pm

Tugger wrote:
I do not see an "unsafe" situation

Like it or not, the standard is not "safe"/"unsafe" it is "comply"/"not comply". See #95. Non-compliance leads to charges of interfering with a crew member which is a federal crime.

In an ideal world things would not have escalated to this point but as I say we don't really know what happened before the video starts.

Tugger wrote:
And you are right that this particular crew member is the issue, if it were me in the same situation, not me. It might not "have gone very well" and that is just more proof that she is in the wrong.

No, it's proof that crew members have discretion. The law is on her side in this case.

All your probing of the limits of your rights should have taught you this by now, no?
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travelsonic
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:24 pm

I dunno, I mean, while I'm all for being respectful to people, I don't understand how anyone can believe that a little snarkiness is enough to warrant being thrown off - I mean, being snarky isn't interfering, and you jolly well can be snarky while complying - and it is clear from the other passengers that were involved, stood up for her, and got booted too.

IMO, this "sit down and shut up" attitude is no less extreme than the other extreme, and is just as bad, and dim-witted when applied outside of specific circumstances where it actually would make sense. (Because, believe it or not, not every situation calls for such a mindset.)
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:29 pm

mbmbos wrote:
Revelation wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
And I feel your snark. Really, do passengers deserve the Third Reich treatment when enforcing rules? The passenger complied. Who cares if she gave the FA attitude?

You deserve the snark and more after hitting us with the "Dear God" and "Third Reich" hyperbole.

Watch the piece of video we have and tell us that your reference to Nazism is justified.

We'll wait.

...and you can keep on waiting. Your comments are quite revealing. Nothing more has to be said.

And so are yours. You toss around references to Nazism and when called on them you don't even try to explain or defend your own statements. In short, you are a wimp.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Virtual737
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:57 pm

Why is it that the vast majority of these incidents seem to happen in the US?
 
Flighty
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:03 pm

I absolutely support the FA here. It is a rule. Just like the rule that you can’t bring a loaded gun on the plane without authorization. And you can’t fly it without authorization. If rules don’t matter, who gets to draw the line? These people chose to exit the plane by rejecting the rules. That is on them. Oops I am trying to stay of a.net :)
 
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flybynight
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:30 pm

Usually there are 2 sides these stories. My guess is the passenger was pushing the limits and the FA was lacking in customer skills. Combine the two and you get these situations from time to time.
Heia Norge!
 
mham001
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:11 pm

77H wrote:
Many will say, well, “she was still breaking the rules so it doesn’t matter”. Fair point but there were no doubt others on that aircraft that had their phones on transmit. If rules and laws were enforced uniformly accusations of racism will decline. But when law enforcement and justice is circumstantial you’re going to question why which is natural for someone trying to digest the situation they find themselves in.


Was this woman singled out? Do you know that?

By this measure, we are now to the point that any authority figure will be unable to enforce whatever it is they are supposed to enforce against a person of another color, for fear of then needing to prove they are not "racist". This is one sick society.
 
stratclub
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:27 pm

Tugger wrote:
stratclub wrote:
The F/A was not at fault here. She was doing her job. The law is very clear on this and that is why if you are given instructions by a flight crew in regards to safety, your only option is to comply with those instructions.

Of course she was at fault. She is not doing her job and instead forcing issues and not managing situations.
stratclub wrote:
A. Passenger Noncompliance. Passenger noncompliance with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) safety regulations may result in interference with a crewmember. Certain passenger actions may be in noncompliance with 14 CFR part 121 and may also be a criminal violation under Title 49 of the United States Code (49 U.S.C.) § 46318(a). Air carriers should have procedures in their manuals to ensure that crewmembers know what actions to take if a passenger does not comply with the safety regulations and/or interferes with a crewmember.
http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8900.1/V03%2 ... 33_006.htm

This is what needs to change as it causes so many problems due the fact that some FA's don't know how to manage their job (only some, the vast majority do and do it very well). An FA has to work WITH people and passengers, not just force issues and fall back on absolutes instantly. The rule is more for emergency situations, situations where a passenger not following orders endanger others or the flight (and I know some here will argue "who am I to make this assumption, if someone disagrees here then they may be a bigger more dangerous problem in a real emergency) and FA's know this and work to that the vest majority of the time. Making the rule clearer and better would help this.

Tugg

Something has to change? are you serious? The primary reason there are F/A's on aircraft is not for drink and beverage service. It is an FAA mandated requirement that they are there for the safety of the passengers on the aircraft. So in an emergency, you would have the Cabin Crew loose control of the situation and have the passengers decide through consensus how to handle the situation?

From what has been reported so far, the passenger had issues with complying with the F/A's instructions and other passengers were starting to escalate the situation. That is why those passengers were ejected from the aircraft. That's the scary part for the F/A. The possibility of having her FAA mandated authority trampled over in an emergency.

If I was on that flight and in ear shot I would have politely and firmly informed the passenger that she needed to stop what she was doing and comply with the F/A's instructions. Somethings in life just aren't negotiable.
 
flydude380
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:29 pm

FA was enforcing duties and ensuring that they were. Pax need to stop giving lip to FAs and the general public needs to stop the beef against em.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:30 pm

stratclub wrote:
If I was on that flight and in ear shot I would have politely and firmly informed the passenger that she needed to stop what she was doing and comply with the F/A's instructions. Somethings in life just aren't negotiable.


OK internet tough guy. I probably wouldn't have intervened, I probably would've filmed the encounter and gave the passenger my contact info so I could speak on their behalf if they lodged a complaint against the sky waitress. Then I probably would've written in a complaint after the flight as well. Considering SkyWest FA's aren't unionized (I don't think) a few complaints in her folder should stick her to being homeless outside Walmart where she belongs.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
jumbojet
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:41 pm

mcdu wrote:
Extremely poorly handled. What a terrible thing for the FA fo do. She should be terminated for escalating that situation.


So I can see that you (and plenty others) have already taken sides and decided that the FA is guilty without even seeing a shred of evidence (like a certain video of a certain passenger getting dragged off of a particular airline). So, how do you know that the passenger wasnt the actual aggressor here and, and, did not place her phone in airplane mode? Thankfully, most of us on here are at best, arm chair CEO's and NOT judges or members of a jury.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:43 pm

jumbojet wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Extremely poorly handled. What a terrible thing for the FA fo do. She should be terminated for escalating that situation.


So I can see that you (and plenty others) have already taken sides and decided that the FA is guilty without even seeing a shred of evidence (like a certain video of a certain passenger getting dragged off of a particular airline). So, how do you know that the passenger wasnt the actual aggressor here and, and, did not place her phone in airplane mode? Thankfully, most of us on here are at best, arm chair CEO's and NOT judges or members of a jury.


So I can see that you (and plenty of others) have already taken sides and decided that the passengers are guilty without even seeing a shred of evidence (like a certain video of a certain passenger getting dragged off of a particular airline). So, how do you know that the flight attendant wasn't the actual aggressor here and, decided to show off what little power she had? Thankfully, most of us on here are at best, arm chair CEO's and NOT judges or members of a jury.

Come on Jumbo, this isn't a FA for Delta, this is a SkyWorst FA. No need to defend them.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
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snn2003
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:52 pm

So, as a Flight Attendant myself, I tend not to reply to these posts, but two weeks ago my crew had a surprise inspection from someone from the FAA. During our de-briefing after the flight he made sure to impress upon us that passengers should only get two warnings before escalation the situation. He was very black& white, and in complete contrast to my companies unofficial policy of inform not enforce for minor infractions. I am not going to draw any conclusions about the current situation because I was not there.
On behalf of your entire Boston based crew, thanks for flying with us today.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:52 pm

Oh and by the way, the passengers that allegedly 'came to her defense were all part of the same family.

I've personally seen plenty of flight attendants get treated like trash by some over entitled elite that thinks they are better than god. Good for this FA for putting her foot down and saying enough is enough. Bravo to Delta for doing the right thing. Bravo.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:55 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
[
Come on Jumbo, this isn't a FA for Delta, this is a SkyWorst FA. No need to defend them.


Other than what the media posted about the incident, in which the information they got was straight from the affected passengers, how do you, or anyone else for that matter, know what really went down? Where is the video evidence? Video speaks a thousand words. There is a reason why cops where body cameras. Maybe its time for FA's to start wearing them to. I bet you would see a lot of passengers wiith changed attitudes.

With United and Dr. Dao, the entire world knew immediately, thanks to video, that the airline was at major fault. So some lady on a DL connect plane makes an allegation and the FA is just like that found to be guilty and sent to the gulag? Doesn't work like that here. You want that, go live in Russia or North Korea.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:01 pm

jumbojet wrote:
So I can see that you (and plenty others) have already taken sides and decided that the FA is guilty without even seeing a shred of evidence (like a certain video of a certain passenger getting dragged off of a particular airline). So, how do you know that the passenger wasnt the actual aggressor here and, and, did not place her phone in airplane mode? Thankfully, most of us on here are at best, arm chair CEO's and NOT judges or members of a jury.


jumbojet wrote:
Good for this FA for putting her foot down and saying enough is enough. Bravo to Delta for doing the right thing. Bravo.


Batting for both teams there aren't you?
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:04 pm

snn2003 wrote:
So, as a Flight Attendant myself, I tend not to reply to these posts, but two weeks ago my crew had a surprise inspection from someone from the FAA. During our de-briefing after the flight he made sure to impress upon us that passengers should only get two warnings before escalation the situation. He was very black& white, and in complete contrast to my companies unofficial policy of inform not enforce for minor infractions. I am not going to draw any conclusions about the current situation because I was not there.


This is completely unfair to put you guys at odds with federal regulations vs company policies. Then again, we are talking about the Federal A-Hole Administration here...
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
77H
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:05 pm

mham001 wrote:
77H wrote:
Many will say, well, “she was still breaking the rules so it doesn’t matter”. Fair point but there were no doubt others on that aircraft that had their phones on transmit. If rules and laws were enforced uniformly accusations of racism will decline. But when law enforcement and justice is circumstantial you’re going to question why which is natural for someone trying to digest the situation they find themselves in.


Was this woman singled out? Do you know that?

By this measure, we are now to the point that any authority figure will be unable to enforce whatever it is they are supposed to enforce against a person of another color, for fear of then needing to prove they are not "racist". This is one sick society.


I read the woman’s account for what it’s worth and it sounds like indeed she was. Was it related to race? Who’s to say? The FA will likely never admit her true sentiment. All I’m saying is that when rules or law are not enforced uniformly there will always be that perception.

I find it interesting that other passengers came to this woman’s defense including a father with his young son. All these passengers had a lot to lose and ultimately did standing up to the FA. If this woman was ultimately in the wrong why would they have gone to bat for her?
 
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PW100
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:10 pm

Siren wrote:
It may be an FAR, but it's clear that these rules are more in place for the sake of 'better safe than sorry' then any real demonstrated danger to fight safety.


Not sure if I understand that correctly . . . :

So when Boeing (or Airbus for that matter) puts a new electronic gadget (or whatever) somewhere in the plane, it must be demonstrated to be safer than safe (flight safety failure rate < 0.0000000001), otherwise they are just a bunch of cheapo's trying to make as much money out of questionable products. Back-up by federal thugs (FAA), with double agendas.

But when you bring something on board yourself, you are fine with "no demonstrated danger to flight safety", with the last part self-decided for everyone on board by yourself . . .
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
mham001
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:23 pm

77H wrote:
mham001 wrote:
77H wrote:
Many will say, well, “she was still breaking the rules so it doesn’t matter”. Fair point but there were no doubt others on that aircraft that had their phones on transmit. If rules and laws were enforced uniformly accusations of racism will decline. But when law enforcement and justice is circumstantial you’re going to question why which is natural for someone trying to digest the situation they find themselves in.


Was this woman singled out? Do you know that?

By this measure, we are now to the point that any authority figure will be unable to enforce whatever it is they are supposed to enforce against a person of another color, for fear of then needing to prove they are not "racist". This is one sick society.


I read the woman’s account for what it’s worth and it sounds like indeed she was. Was it related to race? Who’s to say? The FA will likely never admit her true sentiment. All I’m saying is that when rules or law are not enforced uniformly there will always be that perception.

I find it interesting that other passengers came to this woman’s defense including a father with his young son. All these passengers had a lot to lose and ultimately did standing up to the FA. If this woman was ultimately in the wrong why would they have gone to bat for her?


It could be she was singled out. How many times had passengers been requested to turn off their phones? How did the FA (rightly) know hers was not, if she was indeed singled out because of race? There is more to this story and instantly casting the situation as "racist" is sick.

BTW, the "Latina" who told the FA to sit down so they could take off was out of line. I would never consider such a statement to an FA. Perhaps the FA is not the real racist here. I recall being forced to turn my phone off completely for some reason, she did not say why and I didn't mouth off about it. I can imagine having to cater to people like this all day who question and challenge your authority is very, very difficult.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:32 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
[Batting for both teams there aren't you?


No,. I strictly like female companionship.

However, I have personally seen a passenger on a Delta flight unnecessarily verbally attack a flight attendant. I'll never forget this, the jackass was sitting in 1A and me, a few rows back. The FA bent over backwards (figuratively and literally) to please this jerk to no avail. I heard the passenger say that he was going to write in to file a complaint. I actually gave the FA my information later on and told him I was an eye witness to the shmuck treating him like garbage and told him to have DL call me if he did in fact complain. He said that was no good but if I wanted to, I can write to Delta on his behalf. As soon as I got to my hotel, I did.

So, when I read stories like this, unless there is video evidence, I take them with a grain of salt, a few grains of salt actually. And for anyone that takes sides in a story like this, you make me LOL.
 
kalvado
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:20 pm

One more thing to consider regarding fellow passengers..
This is last flight of the day to the hub. Return to gate inevitably means that some - maybe many - people on board would miss their connections and get stuck in ATL overnight, possibly missing event at destination.
For me missing connection like that it certainly warrants doing as much as possible to avoid gate return over non-severe issue. If that was the reason other pax confronted FA... Was it worth the show?
 
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Tugger
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:24 pm

kalvado wrote:
One more thing to consider regarding fellow passengers..
This is last flight of the day to the hub. Return to gate inevitably means that some - maybe many - people on board would miss their connections and get stuck in ATL overnight, possibly missing event at destination.
For me missing connection like that it certainly warrants doing as much as possible to avoid gate return over non-severe issue. If that was the reason other pax confronted FA... Was it worth the show?

You are making a guess, a supposition.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
stratclub
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:31 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
stratclub wrote:
If I was on that flight and in ear shot I would have politely and firmly informed the passenger that she needed to stop what she was doing and comply with the F/A's instructions. Somethings in life just aren't negotiable.


OK internet tough guy. I probably wouldn't have intervened, I probably would've filmed the encounter and gave the passenger my contact info so I could speak on their behalf if they lodged a complaint against the sky waitress. Then I probably would've written in a complaint after the flight as well. Considering SkyWest FA's aren't unionized (I don't think) a few complaints in her folder should stick her to being homeless outside Walmart where she belongs.

No, it would just be my inclination to try and defuse a bad situation. I would hate to see someone ejected from a flight and have a flight delayed because they were being a self serving imbecile. The F/A was doing her job as directed by FAA regulations, end of story. No, cabin attendants are not sky waitresses or sex objects to stimulate the male passengers. They are present to ensure public safety as required by the FAA regulations.
 
kalvado
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:33 pm

Tugger wrote:
kalvado wrote:
One more thing to consider regarding fellow passengers..
This is last flight of the day to the hub. Return to gate inevitably means that some - maybe many - people on board would miss their connections and get stuck in ATL overnight, possibly missing event at destination.
For me missing connection like that it certainly warrants doing as much as possible to avoid gate return over non-severe issue. If that was the reason other pax confronted FA... Was it worth the show?

You are making a guess, a supposition.

Tugg

No I am not. It is the last flight of the day, that is easy to verify. Flight arrived 3 hours late, after 10 PM, that is an easy check as well. Missing connections is almost a given in such situation.
ANd yes, I would just say to FA:" lets try to settle it and move on, I - among other people onboard - need to get where we're going.". Would hat get me offloaded as well?
 
stratclub
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:39 pm

snn2003 wrote:
So, as a Flight Attendant myself, I tend not to reply to these posts, but two weeks ago my crew had a surprise inspection from someone from the FAA. During our de-briefing after the flight he made sure to impress upon us that passengers should only get two warnings before escalation the situation. He was very black& white, and in complete contrast to my companies unofficial policy of inform not enforce for minor infractions. I am not going to draw any conclusions about the current situation because I was not there.

Thanks for posting. Very brave you in that the actual facts of the incident have no bearing to realities oh the incident. to many that have posted.

You are absolutely correct, there is no gray area or mitigating circumstance as in race or gender that apply here.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:44 pm

stratclub wrote:
The primary reason there are F/A's on aircraft is not for drink and beverage service. It is an FAA mandated requirement that they are there for the safety of the passengers on the aircraft. So in an emergency, you would have the Cabin Crew loose control of the situation and have the passengers decide through consensus how to handle the situation?

You are making stuff up. As others have noted, why is this not a problem in other countries? You think their FA's are just superior?

FA's are primarily there to serve and see to the customers needs, in an emergency situation things change but when airlines began stewardesses were there and FAA mandates were not. The FAA then found that during EMERGENCIES passengers needed preparation and assistance and so it was mandated to have crew available and trained for emergency situations. Airline combined the tasks of course. FA's were trained to communicate instructions etc. during the flight so that passengers could be prepared in some small way. However of course during an emergency the professional FA's have the deeper knowledge of the aircraft and procedures that need to be followed to ensure maximum safety/survivability.

By the way, from what I know it was passengers that "through consensus" took on highjackers during 911 and forced their way into the cockpit. Otherwise I don't think I have ever heard of passengers "rebelling" against crew ever during an emergency so how does debating something with a crew member make you think a passenger is a danger to flight safety. Seriously, the cabin crews in the USA are excellent but some need to be better trained to manage small simple situations with passengers. Serving customers is a noble task but some do not think so. But every job has people that are not up to the task.

And to rephrase your comment:
"From what has been reported so far, the FA had issues with doing her job and was unable to deescalate and manage communication with a passenger and then several other passengers. Instead she escalated the situation and forced a return to the gate, a delay of the aircraft and unneeded expense to the airline. That's the scary part, the F/A did not do her job and could therefore be a risk in an emergency."

stratclub wrote:
snn2003 wrote:
So, as a Flight Attendant myself, I tend not to reply to these posts, but two weeks ago my crew had a surprise inspection from someone from the FAA. During our de-briefing after the flight he made sure to impress upon us that passengers should only get two warnings before escalation the situation. He was very black& white, and in complete contrast to my companies unofficial policy of inform not enforce for minor infractions. I am not going to draw any conclusions about the current situation because I was not there.

Thanks for posting. Very brave you in that the actual facts of the incident have no bearing to realities oh the incident. to many that have posted.

You are absolutely correct, there is no gray area or mitigating circumstance as in race or gender that apply here.

What do you mean "no gray area" the FAA person stated "two warnings", that is gray as heck. When is a warning made? How clear is the warning that it is a warning and that it will lead to ejection? I am good with "two warnings" that is plenty "gray" to inquire about an instruction. And escalation does not mean "you must kick the person off/they are a safety risk".

Example: I'm calling during taxi.
FA: Please get off your phone it isn't allowed during taxi
Me: But my child fell and was taken to the hospital...
FA: I am sorry but you cannot be on your phone. You may call at the gate/text when we are at altitude but it needs to be turned off now. If I have to come back I have to go back to the gate and be removed for failing to comply.
Me: Oh. OK let me turn it off

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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spinotter
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:49 pm

blooc350 wrote:
Flight attendants in the United States severely lack in the department of "soft skills" and "passenger handling".


And from much of the behavior I've seen on various flights, I think I know why. It is exhausting to repeat instructions which passengers should have the courtesy to follow IMMEDIATELY. Obviously, this woman had an attitude and everyone reaches the breaking point eventually with such passengers, or even worse, just decides to ignore all the breaches of regulations and not care any more. Which attitude do you prefer?
 
77H
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:09 am

mham001 wrote:
77H wrote:
mham001 wrote:

Was this woman singled out? Do you know that?

By this measure, we are now to the point that any authority figure will be unable to enforce whatever it is they are supposed to enforce against a person of another color, for fear of then needing to prove they are not "racist". This is one sick society.


I read the woman’s account for what it’s worth and it sounds like indeed she was. Was it related to race? Who’s to say? The FA will likely never admit her true sentiment. All I’m saying is that when rules or law are not enforced uniformly there will always be that perception.

I find it interesting that other passengers came to this woman’s defense including a father with his young son. All these passengers had a lot to lose and ultimately did standing up to the FA. If this woman was ultimately in the wrong why would they have gone to bat for her?


It could be she was singled out. How many times had passengers been requested to turn off their phones? How did the FA (rightly) know hers was not, if she was indeed singled out because of race? There is more to this story and instantly casting the situation as "racist" is sick.

BTW, the "Latina" who told the FA to sit down so they could take off was out of line. I would never consider such a statement to an FA. Perhaps the FA is not the real racist here. I recall being forced to turn my phone off completely for some reason, she did not say why and I didn't mouth off about it. I can imagine having to cater to people like this all day who question and challenge your authority is very, very difficult.


From what I've read, the passenger in question complied with the FAs direction but did question the need for the FA to stand over her while she did it which I personally feel is a valid question. I've had regional jet FAs come by and ask me to turn off my phone. I gave verbal affirmation and they moved on. I would find it a little belittling for them to stand over me while I did it.

Again, I cannot say proof positive it was race or anything else. All I was saying is that if rules and law is not enforced uniformly you leave room for people to perceive that they were singled out.

77H
 
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Tugger
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:11 am

By the way. I feel like I am probably coming across as some rabid jerk who expects crew to grovel before me and that crew are always power hungry and wrong, and that the FA in this situation is absolutely wrong and at fault, etc. However that is not true or accurate. I am going by what I saw in the video and what was reported (in particular the additional passengers being kicked off and not so much the woman who started it all) which for basically anyone here does not give enough information for a well informed opinion on this exact situation.

For the sake of this discussion though and what I saw/read, I am thinking more could have and should have been done to deescalate the situation. For that position I am responding to people that to me are going overboard the other way with absolutes and stating what I feel are things along the lines of "you don't follow instructions immediately your are wrong and a danger to the flight..." etc.

I know and love many people in the airline industry and have traveled and flown enough to know they are wonderful and do a tough job and deal with assholes all day long sometimes. But as with any business not all employees are great and I make no allusion that they are all great. Some can do better and some need to do better. Many love their job and some don't. So I am trying to be realistic that often it can be the passenger and sometimes the crew member but always the crew member is the trained professional so I have higher expectations for them.

I hope I am getting across what I am meaning to say. I know some will ignore it but I am trying. Thanks,

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
77H
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:14 am

jumbojet wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
[Batting for both teams there aren't you?


No,. I strictly like female companionship.

However, I have personally seen a passenger on a Delta flight unnecessarily verbally attack a flight attendant. I'll never forget this, the jackass was sitting in 1A and me, a few rows back. The FA bent over backwards (figuratively and literally) to please this jerk to no avail. I heard the passenger say that he was going to write in to file a complaint. I actually gave the FA my information later on and told him I was an eye witness to the shmuck treating him like garbage and told him to have DL call me if he did in fact complain. He said that was no good but if I wanted to, I can write to Delta on his behalf. As soon as I got to my hotel, I did.

So, when I read stories like this, unless there is video evidence, I take them with a grain of salt, a few grains of salt actually. And for anyone that takes sides in a story like this, you make me LOL.


Give me a break Jumbo. You take sides instantly when its anyone but DL and there is plenty of evidence on numerous threads to show this.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:17 am

From the article...

A Delta Air Lines representative told WGCL-TV, Atlanta, that the airline accommodated the needs of stranded passengers. Rodgers' said Wednesday the airline did not provide hotel accommodations for any of the passengers forced to stay the night.


Regardless of who is right between the FA vs. the passenger in question vs. the other passengers caught in the crossfire, it's pretty astounding that Delta would flat out lie about something as simple as providing a hotel room.
 
eugdjinn
Posts: 169
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Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:37 am

The continuing logical fallacies in this thread are at least threefold:

First: cellphones (particularly older ones) can and do affect the instrument panels on the CRJ series - as in can make them all go black when searching for signal... I once saw it over a crew's shoulders when they found a phone that could do it and we were in a safe spot to do the, "Hey would you look at this!" I've been told larger planes are 'hardened' against that interference, but then... all things being equal, it's not a perfect world. (SkyWest flies mostly CRJ series aircraft.)

Hence, the rule. And yes, Super80fan, et al. It is FEDERAL LAW, your phone should be in Airplane mode or off as of the moment the aircraft door is closed. Not, the fourth time we ask, not the moment we tap you on the shoulder as you text, and not as you keep talking.

Second: As a FA, we announce before we close the door that this is what you need to do. We repeat it after or as we close the door. So, if that's the FAA's two, what does that make the next two times we have to say it? On a Delta Connection flight, I often had to say it every two rows. Why? Because I had passengers with Listening Disabilities who were either texting, talking, snapchatting, or faceplanting actively on their phones. Funny thing, your cell carrier shows in the upper left corner if you aren't in airplane mode. Even if you aren't obviously texting, it gives you away. And while we are looking to see if your seatbelt is fastened, we look at that too.

Third: Even with all of these incidents where people point at and say, 'Just look at the video!' Did you ever notice that the video doesn't start at the real beginning of the adventure? It's like an Action film, you start mid-crash, not at 'once upon a time, there was...' If we started this as the passengers walked on the plane and heard every announcement, we'd be in a good position to evaluate this. We just aren't, because it doesn't give us the real beginning. We don't actually know if there were one, two, or seven prior, gentle, polite requests from the FA to this passenger.

I would quietly bet the Captain said to the whole crew well before boarding, "Anyone who gives you trouble is off the plane." Making this not really a negotiable. Again, we do not know the whole story. And what would have been easy to make 'no big deal' wasn't when the neighbors jumped in filming and advising.

Every single rule and regulation that we list, describe, demonstrate and inform/enforce has pretty good reasoning behind it. Some may feel antiquated, or not make sense on the surface. They all have solid reasoning behind them and really are designed to keep you alive. Now, I won't tell you that every single working flight attendant understands all of them. But, not a one of them is arbitrary or stupid.

I appreciate all of the 'armchair aviation specialists' who'd like to "absolutely declare" that cellphones can be left on and in transmitting mode. Do that, in any other country. Here, the law says you may not. period. Will we all die? Hopefully not, if you forget. It happens every day. Because it does, cellphone frequencies changed to try to reduce it. Does that mean you should be an arrogant donkey and ignore the request to switch them over? No. We all do the best we can. Please do the same.

One last note - regarding that demeaning phrase 'sky waitress' - just so we are all clear - if you want to call me that, I expect you to tip me 15% of your ticket, in cash. My company pays me only from when the door on that plane closes, until it opens. So, while I am saying, "Hi, welcome" and "thanks, have a great day!", I am off the clock. That's a standard. It's true of your pilots too. We do make a pittance in per diem for meals. And that FA, may have been on hour 11 of 14 since she started her day. Not paid hour 11, just the 11th hour since she left the hotel room for the day. Something to think about.

I am happy to pour you a drink, and hand you cookies. But behind my smile when I am looking at your seatbelts as I walk through the plane in the beginning; please remember that I really am conscious of whether everything is stowed for a crash, and who might need help to get out. - That's what I really do, so that you don't have to think about the worst case.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:54 am

IPFreely wrote:
From the article...

A Delta Air Lines representative told WGCL-TV, Atlanta, that the airline accommodated the needs of stranded passengers. Rodgers' said Wednesday the airline did not provide hotel accommodations for any of the passengers forced to stay the night.


Regardless of who is right between the FA vs. the passenger in question vs. the other passengers caught in the crossfire, it's pretty astounding that Delta would flat out lie about something as simple as providing a hotel room.


How did they lie? They might consider food vouchers and rebooking to the next flight accommodating.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:59 am

eugdjinn wrote:
The continuing logical fallacies in this thread are at least threefold:

First: cellphones (particularly older ones) can and do affect the instrument panels on the CRJ series - as in can make them all go black when searching for signal... I once saw it over a crew's shoulders when they found a phone that could do it and we were in a safe spot to do the, "Hey would you look at this!" I've been told larger planes are 'hardened' against that interference, but then... all things being equal, it's not a perfect world. (SkyWest flies mostly CRJ series aircraft.)

Hence, the rule. And yes, Super80fan, et al. It is FEDERAL LAW, your phone should be in Airplane mode or off as of the moment the aircraft door is closed. Not, the fourth time we ask, not the moment we tap you on the shoulder as you text, and not as you keep talking.

Second: As a FA, we announce before we close the door that this is what you need to do. We repeat it after or as we close the door. So, if that's the FAA's two, what does that make the next two times we have to say it? On a Delta Connection flight, I often had to say it every two rows. Why? Because I had passengers with Listening Disabilities who were either texting, talking, snapchatting, or faceplanting actively on their phones. Funny thing, your cell carrier shows in the upper left corner if you aren't in airplane mode. Even if you aren't obviously texting, it gives you away. And while we are looking to see if your seatbelt is fastened, we look at that too.

Third: Even with all of these incidents where people point at and say, 'Just look at the video!' Did you ever notice that the video doesn't start at the real beginning of the adventure? It's like an Action film, you start mid-crash, not at 'once upon a time, there was...' If we started this as the passengers walked on the plane and heard every announcement, we'd be in a good position to evaluate this. We just aren't, because it doesn't give us the real beginning. We don't actually know if there were one, two, or seven prior, gentle, polite requests from the FA to this passenger.

I would quietly bet the Captain said to the whole crew well before boarding, "Anyone who gives you trouble is off the plane." Making this not really a negotiable. Again, we do not know the whole story. And what would have been easy to make 'no big deal' wasn't when the neighbors jumped in filming and advising.

Every single rule and regulation that we list, describe, demonstrate and inform/enforce has pretty good reasoning behind it. Some may feel antiquated, or not make sense on the surface. They all have solid reasoning behind them and really are designed to keep you alive. Now, I won't tell you that every single working flight attendant understands all of them. But, not a one of them is arbitrary or stupid.

I appreciate all of the 'armchair aviation specialists' who'd like to "absolutely declare" that cellphones can be left on and in transmitting mode. Do that, in any other country. Here, the law says you may not. period. Will we all die? Hopefully not, if you forget. It happens every day. Because it does, cellphone frequencies changed to try to reduce it. Does that mean you should be an arrogant donkey and ignore the request to switch them over? No. We all do the best we can. Please do the same.

One last note - regarding that demeaning phrase 'sky waitress' - just so we are all clear - if you want to call me that, I expect you to tip me 15% of your ticket, in cash. My company pays me only from when the door on that plane closes, until it opens. So, while I am saying, "Hi, welcome" and "thanks, have a great day!", I am off the clock. That's a standard. It's true of your pilots too. We do make a pittance in per diem for meals. And that FA, may have been on hour 11 of 14 since she started her day. Not paid hour 11, just the 11th hour since she left the hotel room for the day. Something to think about.

I am happy to pour you a drink, and hand you cookies. But behind my smile when I am looking at your seatbelts as I walk through the plane in the beginning; please remember that I really am conscious of whether everything is stowed for a crash, and who might need help to get out. - That's what I really do, so that you don't have to think about the worst case.


Good Lord, what took you so long? Lol. Yes, to all this. Yes. :-).
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta ejects passengers over airplane mode spat

Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:01 am

Super80Fan wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Extremely poorly handled. What a terrible thing for the FA fo do. She should be terminated for escalating that situation.


So I can see that you (and plenty others) have already taken sides and decided that the FA is guilty without even seeing a shred of evidence (like a certain video of a certain passenger getting dragged off of a particular airline). So, how do you know that the passenger wasnt the actual aggressor here and, and, did not place her phone in airplane mode? Thankfully, most of us on here are at best, arm chair CEO's and NOT judges or members of a jury.


So I can see that you (and plenty of others) have already taken sides and decided that the passengers are guilty without even seeing a shred of evidence (like a certain video of a certain passenger getting dragged off of a particular airline). So, how do you know that the flight attendant wasn't the actual aggressor here and, decided to show off what little power she had? Thankfully, most of us on here are at best, arm chair CEO's and NOT judges or members of a jury.

Come on Jumbo, this isn't a FA for Delta, this is a SkyWorst FA. No need to defend them.


UA on the attack.
DL on the defense.
Sky Waitress

You three deserve each other.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.

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