With the recent announcement of creating of LEVEL Austria doing short haul flights, and the poor reputation of Vueling I was wondering if IAG is considering or thinking of rebranding the entire Vueling company into LEVEL in the possible future?

Certainly compared to the Vueling, LEVEL is considered a much better airline with a better reputation.

Well it’s easier to pronounce than Vueling, so that’s a plus...

I doubt IAG will do much more with either brand before their Norwegian saga comes to a close. Then you have to wonder if they’d keep Norwegian on the short haul network or replace it all with LEVEL. I think the Austrian venture might be testing the ability to raise brand awareness.

Out of interest, did BA sell the Go brand when they sold it off? Shame if they did. It would have worked well on a larger low-cost operation

Would have been owned by easyJet . Whether they resold the trademark I don’t know .

smallvoyageur wrote:

Certainly compared to the Vueling, LEVEL is considered a much better airline with a better reputation.

You are comparing a brand new airline that operates 2 planes and a handful of flights out of BCN with a paneuropean low-cost with bases in 5 countries, 107 planes & over and hundreds of daily flights.

Here in Paris next to no one has ever heard of Level while vueling is probably as well known as Ryanair.

IAG are very strategic , possibly they choose the most suitable brand for the market they’re going after .... LEVEL might be very suitable for Vienna , even FR had to use a different brand for Vienna ... interesting to watch what happens next ...

Has Vueling suffered a lot of operational issues? Yes
Has LEVEL a better reputation as a recently-created airline? Yes
Does that mean that the second is better and good enough to replace the first one? I don't see that happening soon.

Thibault973 wrote:

smallvoyageur wrote:

Certainly compared to the Vueling, LEVEL is considered a much better airline with a better reputation.

You are comparing a brand new airline that operates 2 planes and a handful of flights out of BCN with a paneuropean low-cost with bases in 5 countries, 107 planes & over and hundreds of daily flights.

Here in Paris next to no one has ever heard of Level while vueling is probably as well known as Ryanair.

Haha across the border here in German-speaking Europe most people probably have never heard about Vueling so that's for the pan-European part but I guess it's always perception. Most Germans who are based elsewhere than MUC certainly have never heard of Transavia, while I would imagine that many French and Brits wouldn't perceive Eurowings as pan-European. But I agree with you in that it might be a waste to throw away the well-known Vueling brand (most publicity is better than no publicity). It would remind me a bit of the Germanwings/Eurowings transformation, although obviously way more dramatic than that. On the other end, I would probably be confused by two different LCCs operating from the same hubs (at least in BCN and soon PAR that will be the case) in the same segments.

And to add to that, I would argue that Germans probably don't have issues with pronouncing Vueling.

First of all a V in German is an F. So they would be pronouncing wrong right off the bat.

My German friends say “Fühling“ ....
after all a V is pronounced as an F and ue is a ü ....
but having said that Vueling it is a well established brand known for lowest cost and a very tight seat pitch. I also think their Website is too slow. But they must be doing something right as they have been growing fast, and they habe been growing in really difficult ecenomic circumstances .

I could not think of a less inspiring and more generic brand name than Level. Anything I’d better than that .... even Vueling

rlwynn wrote:

First of all a V in German is an F. So they would be pronouncing wrong right off the bat.

Well that's an issue with both Level and Vueling

Galwayman wrote:

IAG are very strategic , possibly they choose the most suitable brand for the market they’re going after .... LEVEL might be very suitable for Vienna , even FR had to use a different brand for Vienna ... interesting to watch what happens next ...

You'd assume that Level was deployed there because it makes it easier to launch single branded long haul flights later on from VIE.

dilettante wrote:

Well it’s easier to pronounce than Vueling, so that’s a plus...

That name "Vueling" is pronounced literally exactly as it's written.

Sydscott wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

IAG are very strategic , possibly they choose the most suitable brand for the market they’re going after .... LEVEL might be very suitable for Vienna , even FR had to use a different brand for Vienna ... interesting to watch what happens next ...

You'd assume that Level was deployed there because it makes it easier to launch single branded long haul flights later on from VIE.

Yes agreed, I can see LEVEL long haul next at VIE next, BKK, CPT maybe

Eurowings would be there first ... they already fly to BKK and CPT (while Level don’t )

Well actually in Level Germans pronounce the V as it is pronounced in English

JayBCNLON wrote:

Well actually in Level Germans pronounce the V as it is pronounced in English

Alphazone wrote:

dilettante wrote:

Well it’s easier to pronounce than Vueling, so that’s a plus...

That name "Vueling" is pronounced literally exactly as it's written.

JayBCNLON wrote:

My German friends say “Fühling“ ....
after all a V is pronounced as an F and ue is a ü ....
but having said that Vueling it is a well established brand known for lowest cost and a very tight seat pitch. I also think their Website is too slow. But they must be doing something right as they have been growing fast, and they habe been growing in really difficult ecenomic circumstances .

I have no clue where your "German" friends picked up their German. There are two different pronunciations for the 'V' letter in German - the mentioned F-like pronunciation as in Volkswagenabgasskandal or the other one that resembles the V sound in Vueling that exists in Vase. As for the UE issue, I'm going to give you this one but it's certainly doable for Germans with a bit of practice and Germans are perfectly capable of replicating the sounds that make up Vueling. But back to my point, I don't see the name as being as big of an issue here as some anglophone members seem to think it is.

JayBCNLON wrote:

Eurowings would be there first ... they already fly to BKK and CPT (while Level don’t )

Currently, all VIE longhaul flights are still operated by OS but it will be interesting to see if LH eventually decides to start EW longhaul ex Vienna. The fact that OS is arguably the least premium brand among the LH Group premium brands will certainly also influence that decision.

Alphazone wrote:

dilettante wrote:

Well it’s easier to pronounce than Vueling, so that’s a plus...

That name "Vueling" is pronounced literally exactly as it's written.

Well indeed in Spanish „exactly as it is written“ is indeed „voo el ing“

In English it s more „viewling“.

And in Getman „literally as is written“ it would be „Fühling“.

I was confused for a second on why Level would want to start a new low-cost short-haul airline in Europe where they already have one. To me Level is an interesting name; the livery and branding is very bland tho, and Veuling is just too unappealing as a name; but its just my taste. They can however come up with one LCC and introduce a whole new marking campaign to promote it, better than forming new companies.

From flying two planes to replace entirely a brand... this would be the perfect "Well, this escalated quickly" meme occasion

It’s a bit of a mess from a marketing and enthusiast point of view - but does the average Austrian care of the name that’s printed on the side of the plane, the ticket or the website? I’m not sure having LEVEL, sold by Vueling, operated by Anisec is brilliant marketing, but will someone who has purchased VIE-LGW for £24 on google flights change behaviour because of it?

LEVEL seems to be used by IAG as a kind of incubator and to send a signal to VY, BA, IB and EI that the IAG board want to see the ‘f***ing money’ before they will invest.

I saw a Level branded 330 in Madrid today, any idea why it would be there?

LupineChemist wrote:

I saw a Level branded 330 in Madrid today, any idea why it would be there?

EC-MYA delivered TLS - MAD on 25th June.

JayBCNLON wrote:

Well indeed in Spanish „exactly as it is written“ is indeed „voo el ing“

In English it s more „viewling“.

And in Getman „literally as is written“ it would be „Fühling“.

And in parts of Spain, including near their home base, it would be bwe-ling.

I'm sure LEVEL suffers from the same problem on some, eh, level, but I feel as if it has a stronger identity - though not one that's widely recognised yet. The LEVEL Austria move is interesting. It'll be interesting to see if we get another LEVEL + country when the next airline somewhere else in Europe goes under and IAG see an opportunity.

rlwynn wrote:

First of all a V in German is an F. So they would be pronouncing wrong right off the bat.

Doesn't seem to be a problem for Vodafone. Why should it be for Vueling or Level?

JayBCNLON wrote:

The LEVEL Austria move is interesting. It'll be interesting to see if we get another LEVEL + country when the next airline somewhere else in Europe goes under and IAG see an opportunity.

It's more than interesting. It can create such a mess for PAX. As it were easy with codeshares.... Don't even want to imagine the FF schemes or perks
4 passengers at BCN:

1 for EZE: Flight with Level on an IB26xx flight operated by Iberia.... where to check in? Level counter? IB counter as it is the operator?
1 for VIE: Flight with Level on an XX1234 flight operated by Vueling Austria.... where to check in? Level counter? Vueling counter as it is the operator?
1 for ORY: Flight with IB on an IB5000 flight operated by Vueling.... where to check in? IB counter? Vueling counter as it is the operator?
1 for ORY: Flight with Vueling on an VY1234 flight operated by Vueling.... where to check in? IB counter? Vueling counter as it is the operator?

The "check-in with the airlne that operates the first leg of your trip" rule seems to be challenged here....

Also... Introduction of the Level brand at Gatwick... Interesting times ahead

smallvoyageur wrote:

With the recent announcement of creating of LEVEL Austria doing short haul flights, and the poor reputation of Vueling I was wondering if IAG is considering or thinking of rebranding the entire Vueling company into LEVEL in the possible future?

What poor reputation? Vueling offers a lot of flights, from premium airports, for competitive fares. I have flown them from Barcelona to Amsterdam two times, nothing wrong with the service. And the flights were on time.

smallvoyageur wrote:

Certainly compared to the Vueling, LEVEL is considered a much better airline with a better reputation.

I thought Level operates only a few aircraft since a very short time. How can they already have a reputation?

I pronounce it 'Failing'

JayBCNLON wrote:

Alphazone wrote:

dilettante wrote:

Well it’s easier to pronounce than Vueling, so that’s a plus...

That name "Vueling" is pronounced literally exactly as it's written.

Well indeed in Spanish „exactly as it is written“ is indeed „voo el ing“

In English it s more „viewling“.

And in Getman „literally as is written“ it would be „Fühling“.

The name Vueling is not even Spanish, it’s two words pieced together and pronounced differently as to what was suggested.

Even in Spanish it doesn’t make much sense, as I was under the impression the V is pronounced as a B in generally. Might be totally wrong though.

MartijnNL wrote:

What poor reputation? Vueling offers a lot of flights, from premium airports, for competitive fares. I have flown them from Barcelona to Amsterdam two times, nothing wrong with the service. And the flights were on time.

Glad that they worked fine for you, but its international (and specially spanish) reputation is horrible. Just try to google "vueling chaos" "vueling Barcelona delay" "vueling capacity" "vueling rome" and you will have some fun reading. They were even close to get their AOC revoked.... in 2 different countries!

MartijnNL wrote:

smallvoyageur wrote:

Certainly compared to the Vueling, LEVEL is considered a much better airline with a better reputation.

I thought Level operates only a few aircraft since a very short time. How can they already have a reputation?

They don't have one yet, apart from being known for low prices. Which is far much better than what people can say about Vueling.

dilettante wrote:

JayBCNLON wrote:

Well indeed in Spanish

it would be bwe-ling.

That's what I'm talking about.

senatorflyer wrote:

JayBCNLON wrote:

Alphazone wrote:

That name "Vueling" is pronounced literally exactly as it's written.

Well indeed in Spanish „exactly as it is written“ is indeed „voo el ing“

In English it s more „viewling“.

And in Getman „literally as is written“ it would be „Fühling“.

The name Vueling is not even Spanish, it’s two words pieced together and pronounced differently as to what was suggested.

Even in Spanish it doesn’t make much sense, as I was under the impression the V is pronounced as a B in generally. Might be totally wrong though.

It is actually, it comes from Spanish "volar" to fly and English suffix -ing

Regarding check in at BCN, when you enter the terminal on the departure level there are gigantic screens all over the place that list, by flight, which counter to check in at. As long as one looks at that, there is no issue.

quote="Aisak"]

rlwynn wrote:

First of all a V in German is an F. So they would be pronouncing wrong right off the bat.

Doesn't seem to be a problem for Vodafone. Why should it be for Vueling or Level?

JayBCNLON wrote:

The LEVEL Austria move is interesting. It'll be interesting to see if we get another LEVEL + country when the next airline somewhere else in Europe goes under and IAG see an opportunity.

It's more than interesting. It can create such a mess for PAX. As it were easy with codeshares.... Don't even want to imagine the FF schemes or perks
4 passengers at BCN:

1 for EZE: Flight with Level on an IB26xx flight operated by Iberia.... where to check in? Level counter? IB counter as it is the operator?
1 for VIE: Flight with Level on an XX1234 flight operated by Vueling Austria.... where to check in? Level counter? Vueling counter as it is the operator?
1 for ORY: Flight with IB on an IB5000 flight operated by Vueling.... where to check in? IB counter? Vueling counter as it is the operator?
1 for ORY: Flight with Vueling on an VY1234 flight operated by Vueling.... where to check in? IB counter? Vueling counter as it is the operator?

The "check-in with the airlne that operates the first leg of your trip" rule seems to be challenged here....

Also... Introduction of the Level brand at Gatwick... Interesting times ahead[/quote]

At LGW vueling is pronounced "welling"

Alphazone wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

JayBCNLON wrote:

Well indeed in Spanish „exactly as it is written“ is indeed „voo el ing“

In English it s more „viewling“.

And in Getman „literally as is written“ it would be „Fühling“.

The name Vueling is not even Spanish, it’s two words pieced together and pronounced differently as to what was suggested.

Even in Spanish it doesn’t make much sense, as I was under the impression the V is pronounced as a B in generally. Might be totally wrong though.

It is actually, it comes from Spanish "volar" to fly and English suffix -ing

Vuelo not volar

senatorflyer wrote:

Alphazone wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

The name Vueling is not even Spanish, it’s two words pieced together and pronounced differently as to what was suggested.

Even in Spanish it doesn’t make much sense, as I was under the impression the V is pronounced as a B in generally. Might be totally wrong though.

It is actually, it comes from Spanish "volar" to fly and English suffix -ing

Vuelo not volar

So technically the name should be pronounced bueling. And that’s where the problem starts, Level is clearly an English word and everyone can pronounce it. Vueling on the other hand...

senatorflyer wrote:

Alphazone wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

The name Vueling is not even Spanish, it’s two words pieced together and pronounced differently as to what was suggested.

Even in Spanish it doesn’t make much sense, as I was under the impression the V is pronounced as a B in generally. Might be totally wrong though.

It is actually, it comes from Spanish "volar" to fly and English suffix -ing

Vuelo not volar

Volar is the uncognated verb and vuelo is the first person present tense of that verb.

I don’t understand why people find Vueling hard... it’s phonetic.

senatorflyer wrote:

...Level is clearly an English word and everyone can pronounce it. Vueling on the other hand...

Everyone can pronounce English? Since when?

Jayafe wrote:

Glad that they worked fine for you, but its international (and specially spanish) reputation is horrible. Just try to google "vueling chaos" "vueling Barcelona delay" "vueling capacity" "vueling rome" and you will have some fun reading. They were even close to get their AOC revoked.... in 2 different countries!

I see. That's not good. But Vueling must have done something right as well. I remember my first aircraft spotting trip to Barcelona in 2007. Iberia was by far the biggest airline at the airport. Fast foward ten years when in a few hours I logged over fifty Vueling aircraft and only two from Iberia. The operation at Barcelone sure has changed over time. But not for the better it seems.

Back on topic, Simon Calder thinks IAG will combine Vueling and Level:

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 23516.html

When Level started, I recall Walsh explaining that it would be separate from Vueling so as not to dilute Vueling's focus on Intra-European LCC flying. Has something changed?

dfdubflyer wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

Alphazone wrote:

It is actually, it comes from Spanish "volar" to fly and English suffix -ing

Vuelo not volar

Volar is the uncognated verb and vuelo is the first person present tense of that verb.

I don’t understand why people find Vueling hard... it’s phonetic.

It's only difficult if you're incredibly ethnocentric and know very little about the language you are critiquing, like one poster in this thread.

I will say that even within Spain, Vueling has a pretty poor reputation. Last summer it was on the news broadcasts all the time for their operational issues.

I would think IAG would be better off getting a hold of Norwegian and tying up everything into that brand, which is seen pretty positively and already does quite a bit of domestic Spanish flying as well on top of being well known throughout Europe.

LupineChemist wrote:

I would think IAG would be better off getting a hold of Norwegian and tying up everything into that brand, which is seen pretty positively and already does quite a bit of domestic Spanish flying as well on top of being well known throughout Europe.

That seems like a good bet. My hunch is still that the combined group would operate under the Level brand. Norwegian could be somewhat tainted if it's a messy collapse, but that's pure speculation.

Together, DY+VY=LV would have an eventual fleet that's comparable - maybe even bigger - than easyJet. A big marketing push with a new-ish brand might give IAG the awareness needed to be seen by the public as a viable competitor to FR and U2.

IAG might want to swap Alaska Airlines their A320neo production slots for some of Norwegian 737 orders, but then a mixed fleet gives them even more leverage over both OEMs.

LupineChemist wrote:

I will say that even within Spain, Vueling has a pretty poor reputation. Last summer it was on the news broadcasts all the time for their operational issues.

I would think IAG would be better off getting a hold of Norwegian and tying up everything into that brand, which is seen pretty positively and already does quite a bit of domestic Spanish flying as well on top of being well known throughout Europe.

That was back in 2016. In 2017 they had the best OTP among European LCCs.

redhair wrote:

LupineChemist wrote:

I will say that even within Spain, Vueling has a pretty poor reputation. Last summer it was on the news broadcasts all the time for their operational issues.

I would think IAG would be better off getting a hold of Norwegian and tying up everything into that brand, which is seen pretty positively and already does quite a bit of domestic Spanish flying as well on top of being well known throughout Europe.

That was back in 2016. In 2017 they had the best OTP among European LCCs.

Yeah, that wasn't front-page news.

Hello: Will Level start: BCN /MIA /BCN?

Rgds

(Sorry) Bcn FLL BCN
Rgds

There were some rumours last year, when they dropped PUJ
With the route on the hands of AA 1x daily, I don't see that happening soon.
Probably LIM or BOG if they are looking at South America.
Tokio should occur at some point too.

Walsh confirmed earlier today in Paris that BCN will get its 4th A330-200 in 2019, so it all looks like IAG is taking some distance from Norwegian and any possible acquisition. Instead, IAG seems to be very interested in make LEVEL shine both short and long haul. We'll see how it all goes, cause as everything in aviation, it all can change in a matter of seconds.

New routes can be expected with this 4th airplane. Likely EZE to remain strong with 9x weekly (just in case Norwegian dares to enter), and maybe its time for Narita from Barcelona, or MEX? EK and Aeromexico seem not interested in the route anymore?

a350lover wrote:

Walsh confirmed earlier today in Paris that BCN will get its 4th A330-200 in 2019, so it all looks like IAG is taking some distance from Norwegian and any possible acquisition. Instead, IAG seems to be very interested in make LEVEL shine both short and long haul. We'll see how it all goes, cause as everything in aviation, it all can change in a matter of seconds.

New routes can be expected with this 4th airplane. Likely EZE to remain strong with 9x weekly (just in case Norwegian dares to enter), and maybe its time for Narita from Barcelona, or MEX? EK and Aeromexico seem not interested in the route anymore?

so iag will sell their stake in norwegian? or will wait ?

JayBCNLON wrote:

Alphazone wrote:

dilettante wrote:

Well it’s easier to pronounce than Vueling, so that’s a plus...

That name "Vueling" is pronounced literally exactly as it's written.

Well indeed in Spanish „exactly as it is written“ is indeed „voo el ing“

In English it s more „viewling“.

And in Getman „literally as is written“ it would be „Fühling“.

No, Fühling would sound like Frühling and everybody would now that this is wrong. So it would be more pronounced like "Vase" aka the V like W. So it is Wüling. (which imho is the more common solution if you compare it to the word "wühlen")