jayunited
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United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:11 pm

Just posted on Flying Together on October 27, 2018 UA will shift their LAX-SIN flight over to SFO and will operate SFO-SIN daily double. The article on Fly Together claims the shift is in response to customer demand for a daytime and increased consumer demand. The new departure will leave SFO at 10:55am and arrive in SIN at 8:15pm. The return flight from SIN will then depart at 10:20 pm and arrive in SFO at 8:55 pm.

UA flights 1 and 2 will continue to operate with the same schedule.

https://ft.ual.com/news/2018/06/29/lax-sin-update

I guess with so few 789's UA felt this was the best choice to pull the aircraft off LAX-SIN to accomodiate a daily double out of SFO. Hopefully at some point LAX-SIN will make a return.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:18 pm

Yes many saw this coming, esp with the imminent return of SQ LAX nonstop, might as well.

Schedule variety on SFO is good though. Current flights were essentially timed identically and likely competed against each other to some degree.



Here is the PR.

To better serve customers who asked for alternative departure and arrival times to and from SIN (Singapore), we plan to shift our LAX-SIN flight to a second SFO-SIN frequency starting October 27, 2018.

Singapore is an important business and leisure destination for United and we remain committed to serving the Singapore market. With the new schedule change, United now offers customers a morning departure from SFO and an evening arrival into SIN as well as an evening departure from SIN and evening arrival into SFO.

“Customers have asked us for a flight getting into Singapore in the evening,” said International Network VP Patrick Quayle. “With this change, we are pleased to offer them this second time channel into Singapore, in addition to improved connectivity across the United network.”

The new frequency will enable United to offer nearly 20 new one-stop connections to Singapore from destinations throughout North America by capturing customer traffic from the large morning bank at SFO. Customers inbound from Singapore will have access to nearly 80 cities throughout the United States, including major business markets like New York, Boston, Philadelphia and Dallas.

The new service begins October 27 and will depart SFO at 10:55 a.m. (11:55 a.m. for the first week due to DST), arriving at SIN at 8:15 p.m. the next day. The return flight departs SIN at 10:20 p.m., allowing eastbound customers the opportunity to spend a full day in Singapore before departure, arriving in SFO at 8:55 p.m. the same day (9:55 p.m. for the first week due to DST).

While LAX based customers will no longer have a nonstop flight, they will have more choice of arrival and departure times to Singapore via the one-stop SFO connection. United operates four other nonstop trans-Pacific routes from LAX: NRT, PVG (Shanghai), SYD (Sydney) and MEL (Melbourne). We remain committed to serving these markets.

The last westbound flight between LAX and SIN will be Oct. 25, 2018, with the last eastbound flight on Oct. 27, 2018.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jayunited
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:42 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Yes many saw this coming, esp with the imminent return of SQ LAX nonstop, might as well.

Schedule variety on SFO is good though. Current flights were essentially timed identically and likely competed against each other to some degree.


Our load factors out of LAX on this route in particular have been all over the place especially when compared to our other destinations we serve in the Pacific. When you couple that with the increase in jet fuel and the severe weight restrictions this route experiences during the winter months and I agree its no surprise UA is moving the flight to SFO. This route really does push the 789 to its limits, its is looking like the most suitable aircraft for this route is A239ULR.

What is surprising is how much demand has grown at SFO that starting later this year SFO will be able to support 3 daily nonstops to SIN 2x daily UA and 1x daily SQ. I guess there is a growing number of passengers who see the value in a nonstop over stopping at NRT, HKG, ICN, or any other Northern Pacific hub.
 
dolphinflyer
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:02 am

UA should shift LAX-MEL over to SFO-MEL as well!
 
danj555
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:12 am

Looks like they milked the route for all it was worth before SQ came in. Maybe United will take a few customers with them.
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:12 am

Any updates whether this could affect IAH-SYD, is it possible that UA would axe it to add in a 2nd daily SFO-SYD?
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
jayunited
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:16 am

dolphinflyer wrote:
UA should shift LAX-MEL over to SFO-MEL as well!


No they shouldn't LAX-MEL almost always has a 85% if not higher load factor. Now I don't know from a revenue stand point how the route is doing only because I don't have access to that information but I would think UA would launch SFO-MEL in addition to LAX-MEL at some point in the future perhaps 4x weekly.

The 789 depending on en-route weather rarely is pushed to its limits on our LAX-MEL route, whereas LAX-SIN we can not fly this route with a full passenger load and accommodate all of the freight. UA's SFO-SIN can flying the route with a full passenger count and all the cargo for at least 11 months of the year, 3-4 weeks in the winter time we have to block a row or 2 on SFO-SIN.
 
910A
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:26 am

LAXintl wrote:
Yes many saw this coming, esp with the imminent return of SQ LAX nonstop, might as well.

Schedule variety on SFO is good though. Current flights were essentially timed identically and likely competed against each other to some degree.


I'm confused..SFO to SIN flights currently are about 12 hours apart. The SIN to SFO are scheduled close together.
 
CO787EWR
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:28 am

Was LAX-SIN just too far for the 789? If UA had a 77L or A359ULR would it have fared better?
 
SFOThinker
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:37 am

I wonder if SFO generates more traffic to SIN than LAX, or whether the large hub at SFO is the decisive factor? I suspect the latter, but the Bay Area does have finance and tech traffic that probably exceeds that of SoCal.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:46 am

Sad to see the LAX-SIN flight get dropped, but a double daily SFO-SIN is friendly for a lot of travelers now getting a 2nd timing. Also I imagine the extra 300+ miles from LAX was pushing performance enough to also cause a significant revenue/cost issue with weight restrictions.
 
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janders
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:50 am

Blocking upwards of 50+ seats during peak winter certainly did not help.


AVENSAB727 wrote:
Any updates whether this could affect IAH-SYD, is it possible that UA would axe it to add in a 2nd daily SFO-SYD?


I thought IAH-SYD was already being reduced to 4-5x weekly between Aug-Oct.

910A wrote:
I'm confused..SFO to SIN flights currently are about 12 hours apart. The SIN to SFO are scheduled close together.


Both flights (LAX/SFO) today operate on top of each other essentially. If you are in SIN you have a 10am and 11am UA flight. Not much choice.

SFOThinker wrote:
I wonder if SFO generates more traffic to SIN than LAX, or whether the large hub at SFO is the decisive factor? I suspect the latter, but the Bay Area does have finance and tech traffic that probably exceeds that of SoCal.


LA is the bigger local O&D market, but for UA they can channel more connections at SFO.


Ultimately, I think the cut is more about the inability to fully utilize the aircraft and the loss of seats(and cargo) revenue versus actual market issue for UA. Remember when they launched the flight, they stated LA was the largest feeder market of the existing SFO-SIN service.

SQ I am sure will be more than happy to serve the LA traffic nonstop by itself now.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
Sightseer
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:56 am

This must make SFO-SIN the longest route in the world served more than once daily by one airline.
 
MARSHAL1
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:59 am

Smart move by United. They launched LAX-SIN in hopes it would keep AA out of the market. Now AA tipped their hands and said that they don't want to start such a route. So now UA can have a 2nd daily SFO-SIN in hopes of knocking SQ off of the route. They probably hope that SQ will just fly LAX-SIN and leave the SFO-SIN to UA. Brilliant move by United.
 
mdavies06
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:42 am

Flying daytime westbound enable some feed from SFO end but this late arrival into SIN will pretty much mean all travellers are terminating at SIN. The arrival at 8:55p into SFO will also limit the connection at the SFO side. UA has the numbers so they make the call but I'd rather keep the LAX nonstop to give LAX a non stop choice. Perhaps range is really the issue.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:52 am

Would love to see PDEW stats on SIN-USA.
 
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UPlog
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:01 am

mdavies06 wrote:
Flying daytime westbound enable some feed from SFO end but this late arrival into SIN will pretty much mean all travellers are terminating at SIN.


Not at all. SIN is a beehive late at night.

Besides tons of regional flights (Indonesia, Malaysia, etc) there are departures to points in India, Sri Lanka and such.
 
DeSpringbokke
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:01 am

I have heard from a source on another forum that SFO-SIN has consistently outperformed LAX-SIN, despite a monopoly on LAX-SIN, LAX being the larger market to SIN, and facing competition from SQ on SFO-SIN. Even if oil fell below $40 a barrel, I don't think this was sustainable. Its just too far for the 787-9, especially westbound in the winter. UA only needs to block seats in the winter time on SFO-SIN and even in the summer they can carry some cargo.

With ceding LAX-SIN nonstop to SQ, I wonder how this will change SQ's plans for LAX-SIN nonstop. LAX-ICN is a goner after LAX-SIN starts. LAX-NRT will stay due as the route has long been one of SQ's most profitable routes, along with SFO-HKG and JFK-FRA.

The wild card here is Delta. Delta still has NRT-SIN despite NRT dwindling down. It is assumed here that Delta will cancel NRT-SIN and let KE fly ICN-SIN. Its remarkable Delta still is flying to MNL and SIN after October but not having a flight to HKG. Hard to see Delta flying SEA-SIN as the 77L is too large. The 787-8, on the hand, would be the right size. Could Delta launch LAX-SIN with the 77L? Yes, but probably not until renovation of T2/T3 is complete. As Ed wanted LAX as the Pacific gateway instead of SEA, any future Pacific flights will likely be all out of LAX.
 
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:03 am

910A wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Yes many saw this coming, esp with the imminent return of SQ LAX nonstop, might as well.

Schedule variety on SFO is good though. Current flights were essentially timed identically and likely competed against each other to some degree.


I'm confused..SFO to SIN flights currently are about 12 hours apart. The SIN to SFO are scheduled close together.

LAXintl is referring to the SIN-SFO (8:45a-9:10a) and SIN-LAX (10:00a-11:05a) flights being timed nearly identically.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:09 am

mdavies06 wrote:
Flying daytime westbound enable some feed from SFO end but this late arrival into SIN will pretty much mean all travellers are terminating at SIN. The arrival at 8:55p into SFO will also limit the connection at the SFO side. UA has the numbers so they make the call but I'd rather keep the LAX nonstop to give LAX a non stop choice. Perhaps range is really the issue.

SFO has late flights up and down the west coast and Redeyes to every major city east of the Mississippi.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:12 am

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... ops-264533

I thought I read this somewhere. NYC is the largest local market to SIN, SF is actually larger than #3 LA
 
crazyplane1234
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:15 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Any updates whether this could affect IAH-SYD, is it possible that UA would axe it to add in a 2nd daily SFO-SYD?

I think they'll be more likely to start BNE, rather than duplicating an existing Australian route.
 
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janders
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:18 am

SFOA380 wrote:
Would love to see PDEW stats on SIN-USA.


You can always use the interactive the Brookings Institute tool

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/ ... n-america/

Quick look
NYC - 112,608
LA - 104,052
SF - 93,592
HOU - 36,974
CHI - 23,592
DC - 19,505
SEA - 16,449
BOS - 16,421
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:25 am

So I guess they will take down that giant billboard at LAX advertising the SIN flight. They put a lot of marketing dollars behind that route
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:25 am

dolphinflyer wrote:
UA should shift LAX-MEL over to SFO-MEL as well!


LAX is by far the largest O&D market to Australia. I don’t have the data to hand, but IIRC O&D Australia-Los Angeles is something like double Australia-New York, which is the second largest market. San Francisco is number 3. If you are going to serve a city in Australia from one market, it makes no sense to serve it from anywhere other than LAX.
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ManekS
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:35 am

janders wrote:
SFOA380 wrote:
Would love to see PDEW stats on SIN-USA.


You can always use the interactive the Brookings Institute tool

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/ ... n-america/

Quick look
NYC - 112,608
LA - 104,052
SF - 93,592
HOU - 36,974
CHI - 23,592
DC - 19,505
SEA - 16,449
BOS - 16,421


Thanks, good source although it’s important to point out this data is from 2011. There’s little doubt the market has grown in the years since, particularly with stimulation from the nonstop services. Singapore Tourism Board reported 565,430 visitor arrivals from the US in 2017 (+9.5% vs 2016) and we are already at 223,135 arrivals Jan-Apr this year (+15% vs Jan-Apr 2017). Sadly, there’s no further breakdown by city.
 
airbazar
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:36 am

janders wrote:
SFOA380 wrote:
Would love to see PDEW stats on SIN-USA.


You can always use the interactive the Brookings Institute tool

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/ ... n-america/

Quick look
NYC - 112,608
LA - 104,052
SF - 93,592
HOU - 36,974
CHI - 23,592
DC - 19,505
SEA - 16,449
BOS - 16,421

This is a huge shift from when SQ last operated the non-stops.
Back then LA was significantly larger than NY, and SF was pretty small.
 
Freshside3
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:45 am

Can't fathom the second SFO-SIN doing that well. It may have been better to assign the aircraft to another route.
 
downdata
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:51 am

Is SFO that much closer to SIN vs. LAX?
 
theasianguy
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:56 am

Would much rather see UA do LAX-TPE-SIN or LAX-HKG-SIN if they can get the 5th freedoms. I can't fathom how SFO can support 3x daily SFO-SIN, even with connections. More importantly, how will UA even get an extra gate on Boarding Area G during the 10:30-11:00 AM window when all 12 are already occupied now?
 
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Irehdna
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:03 am

I also think 3x daily on SFO-SIN is too much. They could have used the B789 on ORD/EWR-HKG, routes that would benefit greatly from the B789's added range over B77E (I believe these are the 2 longest B77E flights in the world).

Interested to see if UA's B789 could make ORD-SIN with similar restrictions as LAX-SIN westbound. ORD-SIN is polar, so the difference in flight times of ORD-SIN and SIN-ORD would be minimal. LAX-SIN is 17h30min, SIN-LAX is only 15h30min.
Last edited by Irehdna on Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jagraham
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:13 am

Were they really blocking 50 seats in the winter?
 
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Irehdna
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:14 am

jagraham wrote:
Were they really blocking 50 seats in the winter?


Yeah I am sceptical about that too considering QF does PER-LHR nonstop on B789, which is westbound for ~14500km.
 
jayunited
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:19 am

Freshside3 wrote:
Can't fathom the second SFO-SIN doing that well. It may have been better to assign the aircraft to another route.


I think a lot of people under estimate the amount of traffic that flows between the U.S. and SIN simply because most of the traffic is routed through a connecting hub at NRT, ICN, HKG, and others in the Pacific and perhaps through FRA across the Atlantic. For many business travelers these stops add time and in some cases time is money. Just because in the past the U.S. has only had 2 nonstop one from EWR and one from LAX does not mean the demand wasn't there it just means no one had the right aircraft to operate the flights efficiently and perhaps profitably . However that seems to be changing with the introduction of the 789 and A359/ULR. These aircraft can fly these routes safely and efficiently, now while LAX-SIN may have proven to have been to much for 789, SFO-SIN can handle it just fine. I believe the demand is there and it always has been it just that now instead of making a connection at a Northern Pacific hub more passengers are looking for nonstop options from the U.S. to SIN, which in time will probably force a capacity correction to other Pacific destinations as more passengers choose the nonstop over the connecting flight.
 
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:56 am

Irehdna wrote:
jagraham wrote:
Were they really blocking 50 seats in the winter?


Yeah I am sceptical about that too considering QF does PER-LHR nonstop on B789, which is westbound for ~14500km.


The 2 routes have completely different route profiles therefore you can not compare the 2 of them. While PER-LHR is 7829nm and LAX-SIN at 7621nm the UA flight suffers from the strong head winds of the Pacific. PER-LHR does not have those winds to contend with. Normally PER-LHR tracks from PER, south of India over the Middle East up through Iran then into Turkey then in a NW direct to London. Flights between PER and the middle east there is not a lot of time difference between east and west, for example flights between PER and DXB on EK, there is only a 10 minute difference in their block time between east and west and that's covering a distance of 4874nm. The only time PER-LHR will face stronger wings is flying into Europe. As the route is only 3 months old it is too early to say how the flight will be affected by the Northern Winter winds. Lets also not forget Qantas has a premium heavy 789 compared to UA.
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jumbojet
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:04 am

jayunited wrote:
[
What is surprising is how much demand has grown at SFO that starting later this year SFO will be able to support 3 daily nonstops to SIN 2x daily UA and 1x daily SQ. b.


Whoa there cowboy. Put the brakes on for just a minute. Lets even see if SFO can actually support and sustain 3 non-stops to SIN. I mean, lets check back in a few months to a years time and see what the landscape looks like then.
 
grbauc
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:09 am

jayunited wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
Can't fathom the second SFO-SIN doing that well. It may have been better to assign the aircraft to another route.


I think a lot of people under estimate the amount of traffic that flows between the U.S. and SIN simply because most of the traffic is routed through a connecting hub at NRT, ICN, HKG, and others in the Pacific and perhaps through FRA across the Atlantic. For many business travelers these stops add time and in some cases time is money. Just because in the past the U.S. has only had 2 nonstop one from EWR and one from LAX does not mean the demand wasn't there it just means no one had the right aircraft to operate the flights efficiently and perhaps profitably . However that seems to be changing with the introduction of the 789 and A359/ULR. These aircraft can fly these routes safely and efficiently, now while LAX-SIN may have proven to have been to much for 789, SFO-SIN can handle it just fine. I believe the demand is there and it always has been it just that now instead of making a connection at a Northern Pacific hub more passengers are looking for nonstop options from the U.S. to SIN, which in time will probably force a capacity correction to other Pacific destinations as more passengers choose the nonstop over the connecting flight.



It's A double connection for non SIN flyers. It allows one to cut off the NRT or ICN/ HKG 1-2 hour refuel stop. Has Aircraft Fly farther and farther no need for double connections. Its pretty much UA funneling more Traffic tru the massive SIN star alliance HUB.
 
jagraham
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:31 am

jayunited wrote:
dolphinflyer wrote:
UA should shift LAX-MEL over to SFO-MEL as well!


No they shouldn't LAX-MEL almost always has a 85% if not higher load factor. Now I don't know from a revenue stand point how the route is doing only because I don't have access to that information but I would think UA would launch SFO-MEL in addition to LAX-MEL at some point in the future perhaps 4x weekly.

The 789 depending on en-route weather rarely is pushed to its limits on our LAX-MEL route, whereas LAX-SIN we can not fly this route with a full passenger load and accommodate all of the freight. UA's SFO-SIN can flying the route with a full passenger count and all the cargo for at least 11 months of the year, 3-4 weeks in the winter time we have to block a row or 2 on SFO-SIN.


My question was aimed at this post; are they routinely leaving the freight behind on LAX-SIN, or are they leaving more than a couple of rows of passengers also? Noting that SFO-SIN is about 280 nm shorter, which shouldn't make the difference between all the cargo and no cargo and maybe 50 seats blocked
 
AngMoh
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Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:47 am

jayunited wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
Can't fathom the second SFO-SIN doing that well. It may have been better to assign the aircraft to another route.


I think a lot of people under estimate the amount of traffic that flows between the U.S. and SIN simply because most of the traffic is routed through a connecting hub at NRT, ICN, HKG, and others in the Pacific and perhaps through FRA across the Atlantic. For many business travelers these stops add time and in some cases time is money. Just because in the past the U.S. has only had 2 nonstop one from EWR and one from LAX does not mean the demand wasn't there it just means no one had the right aircraft to operate the flights efficiently and perhaps profitably . However that seems to be changing with the introduction of the 789 and A359/ULR. These aircraft can fly these routes safely and efficiently, now while LAX-SIN may have proven to have been to much for 789, SFO-SIN can handle it just fine. I believe the demand is there and it always has been it just that now instead of making a connection at a Northern Pacific hub more passengers are looking for nonstop options from the U.S. to SIN, which in time will probably force a capacity correction to other Pacific destinations as more passengers choose the nonstop over the connecting flight.


Travelling from SIN to the US, with the non-stop, SFO is the best entry point especially if you don't go to NYC/SFO/LAX itself. In the past I flew a lot to IND and HSV and that always involved at least on stop in japan or Korea and another transfer somewhere in the US. Just this week I flew SIN-...-CLT and DTW-...-SIN and SFO is the only real transit which works as a Star Alliance Gold customer. On the way back it was SQ1 SFO-HKG-SIN as the non-stop was sold out in Y for 4 days in a row and SQ1 was also packed. What a pity that the SFO transit experience deteriorated so much since the last time I was there.

qf789 wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
jagraham wrote:
Were they really blocking 50 seats in the winter?


Yeah I am sceptical about that too considering QF does PER-LHR nonstop on B789, which is westbound for ~14500km.


The 2 routes have completely different route profiles therefore you can not compare the 2 of them. While PER-LHR is 7829nm and LAX-SIN at 7621nm the UA flight suffers from the strong head winds of the Pacific. PER-LHR does not have those winds to contend with. Normally PER-LHR tracks from PER, south of India over the Middle East up through Iran then into Turkey then in a NW direct to London. Flights between PER and the middle east there is not a lot of time difference between east and west, for example flights between PER and DXB on EK, there is only a 10 minute difference in their block time between east and west and that's covering a distance of 4874nm. The only time PER-LHR will face stronger wings is flying into Europe. As the route is only 3 months old it is too early to say how the flight will be affected by the Northern Winter winds. Lets also not forget Qantas has a premium heavy 789 compared to UA.


You can see that from my last route. SIN-SFO non stop followed pretty well great circle route and has tail winds of 200-250kph most of the pacific. On the way back it was far south and headwinds of around 40-80kph - so the actual route is much more than 8500mi GC. I had one flight in the past SFO-ICN-SIN where we had the last 2 hours coming into ICN headwinds of 300kph+ and a ground speed of 480-520kph.
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LH658
Posts: 534
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:01 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Any updates whether this could affect IAH-SYD, is it possible that UA would axe it to add in a 2nd daily SFO-SYD?


No, IAH - SYD helps connect PAX from MSY, Mexico, Central/South America, ORD, STL, RDU, and etc. Same how IAH - AKL works. It a response to QF/AA, Which operates LAX to AKL, and DFW to SYD. Star Alliance is dominating on this Pacific game, by starting ORD to AKL, which can help connect to YUL, YYZ, DTW, CLE, JFK, BOS, and etc
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2475
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:18 am

I think the bigger story is this:

Less than 18 months after talking the talk, doesnt look like they can walk the walk.

I mean, why not drop down to 5x daily like the IAH-SYD flight? Seems that their giving up on LAX to easily.


United Airlines Said to Plan Los Angeles Push in Comeback Effort


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ack-effort
 
blooc350
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:08 am

MARSHAL1 wrote:
Smart move by United. They launched LAX-SIN in hopes it would keep AA out of the market. Now AA tipped their hands and said that they don't want to start such a route. So now UA can have a 2nd daily SFO-SIN in hopes of knocking SQ off of the route. They probably hope that SQ will just fly LAX-SIN and leave the SFO-SIN to UA. Brilliant move by United.


Its a naive and a foolish to think SQ will let UA dominate the SFO-SIN market.....its SQ we're talking about.
 
United Airline
Posts: 8948
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:47 am

In that case why don't they just bring back HKG-SIN-HKG?
 
United Airline
Posts: 8948
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:57 am

theasianguy wrote:
Would much rather see UA do LAX-TPE-SIN or LAX-HKG-SIN if they can get the 5th freedoms. I can't fathom how SFO can support 3x daily SFO-SIN, even with connections. More importantly, how will UA even get an extra gate on Boarding Area G during the 10:30-11:00 AM window when all 12 are already occupied now?


They did HKG-LAX-HKG in the 90s as well as in 2008. HKG-SIN-HKG has been around for more than 30 years until they terminated the service in late 2017. At one point the flight originated from LAX.
 
sabby
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:12 am

Maybe UA will re-introduce this route in future when they get their A350s.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:32 am

Could we ever see DL or AA attempt LAX-SIN?
 
mdavies06
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:28 pm

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:45 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
mdavies06 wrote:
Flying daytime westbound enable some feed from SFO end but this late arrival into SIN will pretty much mean all travellers are terminating at SIN. The arrival at 8:55p into SFO will also limit the connection at the SFO side. UA has the numbers so they make the call but I'd rather keep the LAX nonstop to give LAX a non stop choice. Perhaps range is really the issue.

SFO has late flights up and down the west coast and Redeyes to every major city east of the Mississippi.


To leave sufficient buffer in terms of connection, say we aim for 2 hours for international-domestic connection at the SFO end perhaps? this leaves only the redeyes to every major city east of the Mississippi? How many west coast flights leave after 11:00p?

What is the minimum time that UA use for SFO for this type of connection ?

UPlog wrote:
mdavies06 wrote:
Flying daytime westbound enable some feed from SFO end but this late arrival into SIN will pretty much mean all travellers are terminating at SIN.


Not at all. SIN is a beehive late at night.

Besides tons of regional flights (Indonesia, Malaysia, etc) there are departures to points in India, Sri Lanka and such.


Many of the South Asian flights on SQ/MI/Scoot leaves around dinner time though. This sort of arrival time into SIN will allow maybe 5-10 flight connections to South east asia + Perth max. There are some connections but very few on *A. Passengers can always self connect of course but even for Changi I wouldn't do it unless I have 2.5 hours to spare for connections.

UA actually does not have to fly the new westbound flight in daylight hours. As an alternative, It can schedule UA029 to leave a few hours before UA001. It will allow for a nice 4-5 hours gap which is still something. The timing of UA001 has a problem today anyway as it is scheduled to land at 0800 into SIN, which misses the first departure bank at SIN for SQ/MI. No long haul flight under SQ arrives this late. They all arrive between 5-7am at SIN.
Last edited by mdavies06 on Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
SGAviation
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:59 pm

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:00 am

adamblang wrote:
910A wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Yes many saw this coming, esp with the imminent return of SQ LAX nonstop, might as well.

Schedule variety on SFO is good though. Current flights were essentially timed identically and likely competed against each other to some degree.


I'm confused..SFO to SIN flights currently are about 12 hours apart. The SIN to SFO are scheduled close together.

LAXintl is referring to the SIN-SFO (8:45a-9:10a) and SIN-LAX (10:00a-11:05a) flights being timed nearly identically.


I think LAXintl is referring to UA2 (SIN-SFO; STD: 0845 LT) and SQ32 (SIN-SFO; STD: 0925 LT).
 
flydude380
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:43 pm

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:05 am

Sad to see UA shrinking LAX :(
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 3908
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United daily double SFO-SIN will cancel LAX-SIN

Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:31 am

downdata wrote:
Is SFO that much closer to SIN vs. LAX?


Great Circle Mapper shows SFO-SIN is 324 statute miles shorter than LAX-SIN. Yes, that distance does matter with ULH flights at the very limit of aircraft range.

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