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DavidByrne
Posts: 1201
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:13 am

duff wrote:
DavidByrne

QF is having problems with a lack of 737 pilots due to pi$$ poor planning on their part. There had been no recruitment for years and suddenly they find they need people. Problem is, they are having to increase the training infrastructure to cope with the shortage which takes time. Plenty of potential pilots available to fly the 737. Just no trainers and training slots to do it.

Who's asking anyone to borrow 100k? If you want to knock it all out quickly then go for it but be aware of the risks (medical event, another GFC). Why not work for a few years, save some money and reduce your exposure to debt.

I think the point is that there is a global shortage of pilots, and the airlines may need to be more creative and proactive than they have been to the present if they want to continue to keep all their planes in the air. That could include measures that make it more attractive to potential pilots to get into training. There are many other industries where employers actively participate in employees’ basic training - it’s certainly an option for the aviation industry, surely?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:09 am

G-DHLH is a young bird (MSN 37808 Line # 1036) and was fitted with winglets prior to delivery.

Be interesting to see that bird plying the Tasman.

Why doesn't NZ run a dedicated freighter? QF does and NZ used to with the DC8.
Plane mad!
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 3931
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:45 am

DavidByrne wrote:
I think the point is that there is a global shortage of pilots.

Yes - :checkmark:. Given the pilot shortage, it shouldn't be as hard for people as it was for 'duff.' I don't know what the solution is, but I think that NZ could be doing more to support the profession than it currently has been, looking at other carriers such as QF.

NZ6 wrote:
So on topic - how does 3C make this work?

Oh my gosh, just read the report if you're so invested in exploring this topic, before going off and doing your own cost analyses and churning out a bunch of questions which you said yourself won't change your mind anyway! Unnecessary ...

NZ6 wrote:
... the topic has now well and truly been killed.

... yet again. Thanks heaps.

Cheers,

C.
 
zkncj
Posts: 2978
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:00 am

NZ321 wrote:

Why doesn't NZ run a dedicated freighter? QF does and NZ used to with the DC8.


Don't need to on the Tasman they have plenty of AKL-BNE,SYD,MEL,ADL services operated by the 777 and 787s, along with the plenty of SeatOnly fares they sell means plenty more room for cargo on the Tasman.

AKL-SYD is meant to be going 5x daily 777 with NZ from sometime in December, which will give them an decent cargo boost.
 
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SelandiaBaru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:04 am

planemanofnz and NZ6 seriously, both of you often make good posts. But this is getting beyond a joke.

3C know what they are doing. Look at their history, the history of the market on the Chathams and draw lines out from their past endeavours. Any sensible back of the envelope calculation will show the merit of a 737 in their future network. More serious work than that is obviously required but the 737 sim was purchased off NZ and believe it or not the capital costs are not that outrageous. It's a step-change but 3C has done them before.

It's certainly much easier to explain than PPQ :wink:
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:41 am

SelandiaBaru wrote:
3C know what they are doing. Look at their history, the history of the market on the Chathams and draw lines out from their past endeavours. Any sensible back of the envelope calculation will show the merit of a 737 in their future network.

I agree - I trust 3C's judgement on this; it is a sensible and well-run company.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:43 am

NZ is hiking excess bag charges by as much as NZD 50, to go towards increase operating costs - to be expected, I guess. Let's see if others follows suit.

See: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/new ... d=12083116.

Cheers,

C.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:20 am

duff wrote:
For those who are put off by the lack of job certainty and the costs associated with being a pilot... boo hoo.

I paid for it on my own back (worked 3 jobs) and knocked on countless doors until I got my first paid flying job. I then moved my way up in the traditional manner and had a great deal of fun in the process.

Point is, if you truly want it enough (and I mean truly, not doing it because it looks like it will be a bit of fun) you can make it happen.

I’m getting really sick of the whingers out there who expect things to happen for them and approach any obstacle with a defeatist attitude.

Rant over

I’m sorry but you’re wrong. Name one other degree or course that costs $100k where the average person that actually completes it only has around a 10% chance of making it into a proper job (in this case an airline)?
Most would be 50% at worst.

While I congratulate you on your tenacity, it shouldn’t come to you working 3 jobs along with everything else just to pay for flying to get you into a job. There really is a missing level in New Zealand between GA and airlines.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:26 am

Mr AirNZ wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Is the issue with getting a job after getting a CPL, or with getting a CPL in the first place? IMO, the big issue is the latter - that is, getting a CPL. AFAIK, the cost is huge, and not all of it can be sourced through a student loan? Even if it can be, there's a huge debt hanging over your shoulders that you wouldn't have in other professions - this is a huge turn-off to prospective pilot trainees. If NZ won't set up a pilot academy, it'd be great to see them maybe establish some scholarships at the least, for deserving candidates?

C.

The hardest part is going from CPL to getting a job for sure. There are really only 4 ways of getting an airline job in NZ: 1) Have lots money and do it yourself. 2) Become an instructor. 3) Strike it lucky and get into a small operator (like Great Barrier or Coast Guard etc). 4) Air Force.
For the majority option 2 is the main method. Instructing in GA is a giant pyramid scheme. For each instructor you need to have about 10 students. So you might get 2 out of 10 making it through while the other 8 have just wasted a lot of time, effort and money to get nowhere due to lack of jobs to go further.

I think many in the industry will know exactly which flying school your "pyramid scheme" relates to. What you describe is true there but vastly different at other organisations across New Zealand. I have never encouraged anyone to utilise the services of the organisation I suspect you are talking about. It has made the owner a lot of money but is widely derided across the industry as a "sausage factory." That said, that is in no way reflective of the quality of the training or the end result of the pilot and I have meet many many very competent individuals who have both trained and worked at said establishment.

I can think of at least 3 large organisations in NZ like that and no doubt there are more. While there may be organisations that aren’t like this, I would suggest in general this is how the industry works.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
Singapore 777
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:37 am

It looks like OKI will enter service on NZ107/NZ110 AKL-SYD-AKL this Saturday (07 July).

Seat maps in the GDS confirm this.
 
PA515
Posts: 1352
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:01 pm

Singapore 777 wrote:
It looks like OKI will enter service on NZ107/NZ110 AKL-SYD-AKL this Saturday (07 July).

Seat maps in the GDS confirm this.


And http://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-oki
AKL-HNL with ZK-OKI commences 17 Jul due AKL-HND resuming on 18 Jul.

Air NZ 789 ZK-NZJ is back in service after being out from 29 Jun to 04 Jul.
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nzj

Air NZ 789 ZK-NZF is still out since 28 May due to RR engine issues.
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nzf

PA515
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 126
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:48 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
duff wrote:
For those who are put off by the lack of job certainty and the costs associated with being a pilot... boo hoo.

I paid for it on my own back (worked 3 jobs) and knocked on countless doors until I got my first paid flying job. I then moved my way up in the traditional manner and had a great deal of fun in the process.

Point is, if you truly want it enough (and I mean truly, not doing it because it looks like it will be a bit of fun) you can make it happen.

I’m getting really sick of the whingers out there who expect things to happen for them and approach any obstacle with a defeatist attitude.

Rant over

I’m sorry but you’re wrong. Name one other degree or course that costs $100k where the average person that actually completes it only has around a 10% chance of making it into a proper job (in this case an airline)?
Most would be 50% at worst.

While I congratulate you on your tenacity, it shouldn’t come to you working 3 jobs along with everything else just to pay for flying to get you into a job. There really is a missing level in New Zealand between GA and airlines.


Agreed - I admire duff's tenacity and determination, but I would go out on a limb and say that in terms of young people (especially today), duff's level of determination would be the exception rather than the rule. The issue at hand is a sustainable future for the industry given the projected numbers of pilots required, and at some point the industry will have to hire more than "the most determined" to keep up the numbers.

duff wrote:
Who's asking anyone to borrow 100k? If you want to knock it all out quickly then go for it but be aware of the risks (medical event, another GFC). Why not work for a few years, save some money and reduce your exposure to debt.

Today's society (especially with the availability of government student loans - and now fees-free first year uni) places the expectation on most young people (especially the high performers at school) to go through the stereotypical path of tertiary education followed by employment in their chosen field. I think the mindset that "I will work for a few years in completely unrelated jobs to save up for flight training" would be rare in a high schooler these days, when everyone else (teachers and parents included) are talking about going to university etc etc.

Also with total flight training costs now getting into 6-figures, and most reasonable-paying jobs requiring some sort of qualification, how realistic is it to be expecting typical kids out of high school to be saving up any reasonable proportion of that (which would be in the tens of thousands of dollars), working jobs they can realistically get straight out of high school?

The issue of medical event/discoveries is quite valid though, and personally, I'm actually glad my parents sent me to university instead - discovered halfway through uni that I inherited an autoimmune arthritis-type condition down my father's side, which would have been somewhat career-limiting in aviation. The symptoms didn't really show up until a couple of years into uni - so if I went for flight training I would've got a clean medical at the start, and would've been quite screwed when the arthritis showed up later on after huge sums of (borrowed) money have been spent on CPL/MEIR.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:31 pm

As an 18 year old with mild asthma, I was told in 1985 that my chances of getting employed by a major carrier were close to nil. So I didn't pursue it.

I grew out of the asthma (and since learned that many pilots lie about minor medical conditions on the forms anyway); but I'm actually very glad it didn't happen. I think piloting is great career when you're young. Once past the age of 40, not so much.

It's certainly not great enough in 2018 anymore that airlines can continue to expect people to work three jobs and spend six digits to still be unqualified for a right hand seat job.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:50 pm

I think of Air Chathams very much in the same ilk as Air North, Canadian North and Nolinor, all of which have 737 combis. It is logical for 3C to want a 737C. Then they have the bonus that every flight can take cargo and passengers and lower the fares as a result with the much better economics.
Flown to 147 Airports in 59 Countries on 81 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:00 pm

Gasman wrote:
As an 18 year old with mild asthma, I was told in 1985 that my chances of getting employed by a major carrier were close to nil. So I didn't pursue it.


Gasman, thanks for sharing. Had a similar experience as a 17 year old. Failed the CPL medical due to hay fever / allergies which the doctor said I would probably grow out of in a few years, but nothing changed. I still have the blue Ministry of Transport booklet. And my father failed the RNZAF pilot medical due to colour blindness, but we both had airline careers.

Gasman wrote:
I grew out of the asthma (and since learned that many pilots lie about minor medical conditions on the forms anyway); but I'm actually very glad it didn't happen. I think piloting is great career when you're young. Once past the age of 40, not so much.


Lying about medical conditions is pointless. One of the girls in Revenue Accounting got into a cabin crew course by not mentioning her asthma, but had an asthma attack on her first day of the course. She was lucky to get her old job back as they were short of trained staff.

PA515
 
Gasman
Posts: 1863
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:04 pm

PA515 wrote:
Lying about medical conditions is pointless. PA515

Well - I don't know about pointless, but definitely illegal, extremely risky, and potentially dangerous. But my info comes from the "horse's mouth" so to speak - a current 4-striper for NZ. When I told him my story, he said "Ah! I was the same; I just never told anyone. Loads of people do it". In "defence" of these people, it's certainly true that at least until the 1990s, aviation medicine was something of an embarassment. Plenty of people lost careers on the whim of some crusty old (probably drunk) physician whose decrees were based on no scientific evidence or even pragmatism whatsoever.

These days, things are a bit more evidence based.

But I digress from my point which is that nowadays, airlines can no longer afford to stay in their ivory tower with respect to pilot training - because the end result is not quite as lucrative anymore. In the 70's and 80's, pilots were revered by both the public and to an extent, airline management. When they weren't flying (which seemed to be 90% of the time) they lived the life of Riley in their high end suburbs or by enjoying virtually free F class staff travel. Why *wouldn't* you go through a bit hardship at the beginning of your life if this is the end result?? These days however, they're flying 110 hours a month, look 70 years old at the age of 50 and the layover times are so short there's barely time for a decent sleep.

So if I was 18 again and saw this, I would say no to a six figure prior investment with no guarantee of a "next step" at the end.
 
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SelandiaBaru
Posts: 89
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:57 pm

DavidJ08 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
duff wrote:
For those who are put off by the lack of job certainty and the costs associated with being a pilot... boo hoo.

I paid for it on my own back (worked 3 jobs) and knocked on countless doors until I got my first paid flying job. I then moved my way up in the traditional manner and had a great deal of fun in the process.

Point is, if you truly want it enough (and I mean truly, not doing it because it looks like it will be a bit of fun) you can make it happen.

I’m getting really sick of the whingers out there who expect things to happen for them and approach any obstacle with a defeatist attitude.

Rant over

I’m sorry but you’re wrong. Name one other degree or course that costs $100k where the average person that actually completes it only has around a 10% chance of making it into a proper job (in this case an airline)?
Most would be 50% at worst.

While I congratulate you on your tenacity, it shouldn’t come to you working 3 jobs along with everything else just to pay for flying to get you into a job. There really is a missing level in New Zealand between GA and airlines.


Agreed - I admire duff's tenacity and determination, but I would go out on a limb and say that in terms of young people (especially today), duff's level of determination would be the exception rather than the rule. The issue at hand is a sustainable future for the industry given the projected numbers of pilots required, and at some point the industry will have to hire more than "the most determined" to keep up the numbers.

duff wrote:
Who's asking anyone to borrow 100k? If you want to knock it all out quickly then go for it but be aware of the risks (medical event, another GFC). Why not work for a few years, save some money and reduce your exposure to debt.

Today's society (especially with the availability of government student loans - and now fees-free first year uni) places the expectation on most young people (especially the high performers at school) to go through the stereotypical path of tertiary education followed by employment in their chosen field. I think the mindset that "I will work for a few years in completely unrelated jobs to save up for flight training" would be rare in a high schooler these days, when everyone else (teachers and parents included) are talking about going to university etc etc.

Also with total flight training costs now getting into 6-figures, and most reasonable-paying jobs requiring some sort of qualification, how realistic is it to be expecting typical kids out of high school to be saving up any reasonable proportion of that (which would be in the tens of thousands of dollars), working jobs they can realistically get straight out of high school?

The issue of medical event/discoveries is quite valid though, and personally, I'm actually glad my parents sent me to university instead - discovered halfway through uni that I inherited an autoimmune arthritis-type condition down my father's side, which would have been somewhat career-limiting in aviation. The symptoms didn't really show up until a couple of years into uni - so if I went for flight training I would've got a clean medical at the start, and would've been quite screwed when the arthritis showed up later on after huge sums of (borrowed) money have been spent on CPL/MEIR.


Precisely, over 10 years into my career I absolutely love my job but more and more I start considering whether or not it was a smart choice. It doesn't really stack up financially in NZ anymore and that's having gone down the student loan route.

In today's environment I think trying to work jobs and get the flying training done is rather fanciful. Life is expensive and the training requires a commitment. This means a sacrifice of personal life and the reality of doing your paid work poorly and even failing exams and flight tests. Neither of which are helpful when it comes to getting the edge on fellow applicants for the long-desired flying job. The other downside is the training takes longer and you could miss the hiring cycle or take too long to get on the ladder and actually start earning.

The reality is the environment is changing, rapidly now. It's taken a while for NZ to cotton on to the new reality but it is happening and things are changing in a way that even I didn't think would happen like they are.

All that aside. I encourage anyone silly enough to entertain becoming a pilot to take a long-hard look at the career and ensure you have marketable skills outside flying the aircraft. If you decide to go down this path make sure you have the insurances to be able to support you and your family (if you're lucky enough not have cocked that up in your pursuit of flying) when a change in career path becomes a medical necessity.
 
NZ6
Posts: 520
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:21 am

aerorobnz wrote:
I think of Air Chathams very much in the same ilk as Air North, Canadian North and Nolinor, all of which have 737 combis. It is logical for 3C to want a 737C. Then they have the bonus that every flight can take cargo and passengers and lower the fares as a result with the much better economics.


I don't doubt they're a smart aircraft if you can fill it and use it enough. Based on the current schedule it' 6 Services a week max and that's only in peak. It's also assuming all Chatham flights will go to 737 otherwise it could be as low as once a week if just AKL or twice if just WLG for example.

I'm also just wondering if they have the capability to ramp up cargo production? as if they do then not just is this great for Air Chathams and locals, its going to be sustainable long term and help help further funding for airport expansion etc

I'm actually interested if anyone knows these answers or has more information?

This is very very basic but take a look at the fuel burn rate of a ATR-500 vs 737-300 which is exacerbated if not managed well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:34 am

NZ6 wrote:
This is very very basic but take a look at the fuel burn rate of a ATR-500 vs 737-300 which is exacerbated if not managed well.

Fascinating web site - I'll certainly bookmark that one! Thanks.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ6
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:12 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
This is very very basic but take a look at the fuel burn rate of a ATR-500 vs 737-300 which is exacerbated if not managed well.

Fascinating web site - I'll certainly bookmark that one! Thanks.


It's just a simple chart highlighting the fuel burn is higher so if the same cargo is being uplifted then it costs more. It's a question of how much additional cargo is there and then the aircraft is only making you money while operating. It actual costs money to sit idle.
 
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SelandiaBaru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:39 am

NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
This is very very basic but take a look at the fuel burn rate of a ATR-500 vs 737-300 which is exacerbated if not managed well.

Fascinating web site - I'll certainly bookmark that one! Thanks.


It's just a simple chart highlighting the fuel burn is higher so if the same cargo is being uplifted then it costs more. It's a question of how much additional cargo is there and then the aircraft is only making you money while operating. It actual costs money to sit idle.


Fuel burn is certainly one thing to consider, and with the prospect of rising prices it's a big consideration. But it can be overshadowed by a number of other factors - maintenance costs, reliability and performance issues. A big consideration on the ATR is icing and crosswind performance, something that would have been given due consideration for the remote Chatham Islands. The ATR is limited to 15 knots crosswind on a wet runway.

While there are a few minor inaccuracies in the following article and there have been changes since it was written it does illustrate some of the issues that need to be considered. https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/opinion/72367512/the-case-for-sorting-new-plymouth-airports-crosswind-issue
 
decry
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:10 am

Singapore 777 wrote:
It looks like OKI will enter service on NZ107/NZ110 AKL-SYD-AKL this Saturday (07 July).

Seat maps in the GDS confirm this.


Have any of you seen OKI on the ground in AKL? I've read elsewhere its still wearing a patched over Singapore livery?
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:15 am

decry wrote:
Singapore 777 wrote:
It looks like OKI will enter service on NZ107/NZ110 AKL-SYD-AKL this Saturday (07 July).

Seat maps in the GDS confirm this.


Have any of you seen OKI on the ground in AKL? I've read elsewhere its still wearing a patched over Singapore livery?

Here you go - as was posted in last month's thread (I'm not sure if it's changed since then):

Image

See: https://www.instagram.com/biposto_spotting/.
 
Whoopeecock
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:57 am

decry wrote:
ch-aviation has a paywalled article regarding tasman cargo airlines adding a widebody in q3 2018... g-dhlh a 6 year old 767F arrived in AKL this week. Any ideas if its replacing the 757 or added capacity?


The 757 is going in for maintenance. http://mrcaviation.blogspot.com/2018/07 ... ution.html
 
Whoopeecock
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:09 am

SelandiaBaru wrote:
planemanofnz and NZ6 seriously, both of you often make good posts. But this is getting beyond a joke.


I agree, same thing as last month, and the month before. Like I suggested in early June (which got deleted), arrange to meet in an airport carpark and duke it out with weapons of your choosing, ie: handbags, keyboards, rolled up Koru magazines....

It’s just boring, tedious and plain embarrassing reading it every month.
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:19 pm

Whoopeecock wrote:
SelandiaBaru wrote:
planemanofnz and NZ6 seriously, both of you often make good posts. But this is getting beyond a joke.


I agree, same thing as last month, and the month before. Like I suggested in early June (which got deleted), arrange to meet in an airport carpark and duke it out with weapons of your choosing, ie: handbags, keyboards, rolled up Koru magazines....

It’s just boring, tedious and plain embarrassing reading it every month.


I would suggest if you find posts where 2 members wont let it go, is to report the posts so us moderators can address it or email us directly at moderators@airliners.net. I agree that is boring to read and it also takes the enjoyment out of participating in the discussion.
Forum Moderator
 
NYKiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:34 pm

Anyone know what's happening at the moment with fares to NZ from the US? I have been looking at coming home in August for several months and all the airlines are well above US$2K. I did some dummy bookings on NZ, and the flights have a lot of empty seats (50 - 70 seats in econ), and wondering why they are holding fares so high.....last year I managed to snag a flight for US$1.2K, but if they remain above $2K its not worth it, as that is a fare you expect during summer and Christmas. Even the sale they have posted really is not a sale by the time you add in connecting domestic flight. Thanks.
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1115
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:22 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
decry wrote:
Singapore 777 wrote:
It looks like OKI will enter service on NZ107/NZ110 AKL-SYD-AKL this Saturday (07 July).

Seat maps in the GDS confirm this.


Have any of you seen OKI on the ground in AKL? I've read elsewhere its still wearing a patched over Singapore livery?

Here you go - as was posted in last month's thread (I'm not sure if it's changed since then):

Image

See: https://www.instagram.com/biposto_spotting/.


I taxied past it on Monday, and it was still the same then. But a week is a long time....
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:40 pm

NYKiwi wrote:
Anyone know what's happening at the moment with fares to NZ from the US? I have been looking at coming home in August for several months and all the airlines are well above US$2K. I did some dummy bookings on NZ, and the flights have a lot of empty seats (50 - 70 seats in econ), and wondering why they are holding fares so high.....last year I managed to snag a flight for US$1.2K, but if they remain above $2K its not worth it, as that is a fare you expect during summer and Christmas. Even the sale they have posted really is not a sale by the time you add in connecting domestic flight. Thanks.

Have you tried from another computer or device/ hiding your IP? Sometimes airlines have been known to not show the cheapest fares if they know someone is keen from previous searches.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
7seven7nz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:10 pm

zkeoj wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
decry wrote:

Have any of you seen OKI on the ground in AKL? I've read elsewhere its still wearing a patched over Singapore livery?

Here you go - as was posted in last month's thread (I'm not sure if it's changed since then):

Image

See: https://www.instagram.com/biposto_spotting/.


I taxied past it on Monday, and it was still the same then. But a week is a long time....


It looked the same on Thursday this week when i went past. Any idea when it will be in service?

edit: actually flightradar has it on NZ107 to SYD today.
 
Planesmart
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:53 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
NYKiwi wrote:
Anyone know what's happening at the moment with fares to NZ from the US? I have been looking at coming home in August for several months and all the airlines are well above US$2K. I did some dummy bookings on NZ, and the flights have a lot of empty seats (50 - 70 seats in econ), and wondering why they are holding fares so high.....last year I managed to snag a flight for US$1.2K, but if they remain above $2K its not worth it, as that is a fare you expect during summer and Christmas. Even the sale they have posted really is not a sale by the time you add in connecting domestic flight. Thanks.

Have you tried from another computer or device/ hiding your IP? Sometimes airlines have been known to not show the cheapest fares if they know someone is keen from previous searches.

Not sometimes - nearly always, unless you are planning to use a technological dinosaur of an airline.

The secret is to hide, but even then, you may not be as hidden as you think.

What you see will be personalised, so you need to de-personalise your searches as much as possible. Search at different times of the day. Don't include connecting internal flights and accommodation - add those later. Keep companion information generic, or don't disclose at all. Use local overseas relatives and friends to search on your behalf. Remember, you will often get higher prices if using a work IP - airlines assume deeper pockets. Search airlines that are cheap, which you wouldn't really dream of using, because these will be 'seen' when searching your preferred airlines. Remember most JV's share search information, so don't search both.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:21 am

I just did a one-off search for Aug AKL-LAX and got $793 on VA, $1000QF $1500 on NZ. JFK has 1750 on VA/QF. $1795 HA. It seems like there are still options for less than 2k.
Flown to 147 Airports in 59 Countries on 81 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Megatop747-412
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2000 1:59 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:25 am

decry wrote:
Singapore 777 wrote:
It looks like OKI will enter service on NZ107/NZ110 AKL-SYD-AKL this Saturday (07 July).

Seat maps in the GDS confirm this.


Have any of you seen OKI on the ground in AKL? I've read elsewhere its still wearing a patched over Singapore livery?


Saw it on Wednesday at AKL - yes still wearing the "basic" SQ livery, with SQ's cheatline and SQ's blue background on the tail
 
Megatop747-412
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2000 1:59 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:27 am

7seven7nz wrote:
zkeoj wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Here you go - as was posted in last month's thread (I'm not sure if it's changed since then):

Image

See: https://www.instagram.com/biposto_spotting/.


I taxied past it on Monday, and it was still the same then. But a week is a long time....


It looked the same on Thursday this week when i went past. Any idea when it will be in service?

edit: actually flightradar has it on NZ107 to SYD today.


Yep just saw it flew over my house as NZ107 to SYD earlier..
 
zkncj
Posts: 2978
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:34 am

NYKiwi wrote:
Anyone know what's happening at the moment with fares to NZ from the US? I have been looking at coming home in August for several months and all the airlines are well above US$2K. I did some dummy bookings on NZ, and the flights have a lot of empty seats (50 - 70 seats in econ), and wondering why they are holding fares so high.....last year I managed to snag a flight for US$1.2K, but if they remain above $2K its not worth it, as that is a fare you expect during summer and Christmas. Even the sale they have posted really is not a sale by the time you add in connecting domestic flight. Thanks.


Weird because in the last week NZ has been going AKL-LAX for $699NZD (OW) and QF was doing AKL-LAX for $499NZD (OW).

NZ/QF seem to be having bit of an war on fares ex-AKL at the moment recently AKL-AISA has been offered for around $699-899NZD (RETURN).

Have you looked into booking USA-AKL oneway on the .com website? and AKL-USA oneway on the .co.nz website?
 
NYKiwi
Posts: 7
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:51 am

Thanks the $2k is the far im.getting quotes from NY to AKL....tried the one way and got US$1.5k NY to AKL and the one way AKL to NY NZ$1.3k.........just seems weird the fares ex US are so high when theres plenty open seats ......what really annoys me is I can searched and found a fake for US$1.2k from NY to SYD via AKL
 
decry
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:26 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:03 am

Whoopeecock wrote:
decry wrote:
ch-aviation has a paywalled article regarding tasman cargo airlines adding a widebody in q3 2018... g-dhlh a 6 year old 767F arrived in AKL this week. Any ideas if its replacing the 757 or added capacity?


The 757 is going in for maintenance. http://mrcaviation.blogspot.com/2018/07 ... ution.html


Information from a buddy in sydney is that tasman cargo have purchased the 767. Upon arrival in sydney the 767 will have a water canon salute with a film crew on the ground documenting the ceremony...
 
bonzolab
Posts: 45
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:11 am

SelandiaBaru wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Fascinating web site - I'll certainly bookmark that one! Thanks.


IA big consideration on the ATR is icing and crosswind performance, something that would have been given due consideration for the remote Chatham Islands. The ATR is limited to 15 knots crosswind on a wet runway.

While there are a few minor inaccuracies in the following article and there have been changes since it was written it does illustrate some of the issues that need to be considered. https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/opinion/72367512/the-case-for-sorting-new-plymouth-airports-crosswind-issue


28kts wet runway. How is icing a big consideration?
 
decry
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:31 pm

DHL 767 arrival in Sydney thanks to Graham @16right_media https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk7kxBxgy3P ... _web_share
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1201
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:05 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Tasmania is targeting AKL flights now, after VA launched HBA - PER yesterday.

... flights to Auckland are next on the tourism industry’s agenda ...

Would NZ's new QF deal act as a large barrier to such a flight being launched?

I would not mind betting that this is so. What would the point be for QF to sign up to a domestic codeshare agreement if it could be undermined by NZ starting its own nonstop flights? But I would not expect to see that written down or announced anywhere - it will in the nature of an "understanding" and would be completely deniable in the event that the Commerce Commission were to have a look at the question.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 3931
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:41 am

DavidByrne wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Tasmania is targeting AKL flights now, after VA launched HBA - PER yesterday.

... flights to Auckland are next on the tourism industry’s agenda ...

Would NZ's new QF deal act as a large barrier to such a flight being launched?

I would not mind betting that this is so. What would the point be for QF to sign up to a domestic codeshare agreement if it could be undermined by NZ starting its own nonstop flights? But I would not expect to see that written down or announced anywhere - it will in the nature of an "understanding" and would be completely deniable in the event that the Commerce Commission were to have a look at the question.

I see where you're coming from, and I agree to an extent that this sort of thing happens, but it is just one route, and likely only going to be served at a low-frequency. As a precedent, SQ launched WLG and NZ launched SGN after their tie-up, so perhaps NZ could still in fact launch HBA?

Cheers,

C.
 
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SelandiaBaru
Posts: 89
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:12 am

bonzolab wrote:
SelandiaBaru wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

IA big consideration on the ATR is icing and crosswind performance, something that would have been given due consideration for the remote Chatham Islands. The ATR is limited to 15 knots crosswind on a wet runway.

While there are a few minor inaccuracies in the following article and there have been changes since it was written it does illustrate some of the issues that need to be considered. https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/opinion/72367512/the-case-for-sorting-new-plymouth-airports-crosswind-issue


28kts wet runway. How is icing a big consideration?


A number of operators will limit below that in order to be able to control the aircraft. Icing performance would be a consideration for remote operations given a number of scenarios - en-route decisions, holding, loitering etc.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1201
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:12 am

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Tasmania is targeting AKL flights now, after VA launched HBA - PER yesterday.

... flights to Auckland are next on the tourism industry’s agenda ...

Would NZ's new QF deal act as a large barrier to such a flight being launched?

I would not mind betting that this is so. What would the point be for QF to sign up to a domestic codeshare agreement if it could be undermined by NZ starting its own nonstop flights? But I would not expect to see that written down or announced anywhere - it will in the nature of an "understanding" and would be completely deniable in the event that the Commerce Commission were to have a look at the question.

I see where you're coming from, and I agree to an extent that this sort of thing happens, but it is just one route, and likely only going to be served at a low-frequency. As a precedent, SQ launched WLG and NZ launched SGN after their tie-up, so perhaps NZ could still in fact launch HBA?

I hope you're right. But I was thinking more of the possibility for a number of new routes, such as AKL-HBA, AKL-CBR, AKL-NTL, AKL-TSV, which are the remaining significant potential routes not yet served by NZ - and probably currently represent, therefore, a significant portion of the total Australian domestic codeshare traffic that NZ would deliver to QF. If I was in QF's position, and knowing that the launch of some new Transtasman routes was a possibility in the wake of the VA divorce, I'd be seeking to ensure that none of these routes saw the light of day, or the domestic codeshare traffic delivered by NZ to QF would be much less significant. I'd suggest that QF in return has much less interest in serving further NZ ports, so NZ would be unlikely to find itself in the same position.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6254
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:32 am

Plenty of delays I’ve noticed across the NZ international network to start the school holidays which imo go beyond the 789 issues.

ZK-OKR broke on Friday causing NZ6 to LAX to be delayed till 1300 the following day, it still seems to be broken. CNS was XXLD Saturday, HNL NZ9 772 was delayed 12 hrs coming home Friday. NAN NZ56 Sunday delayed 1100 to 2100 meaning HKG gets delayed overnight, NZ46 RAR 772 delayed 4hrs meaning YVR delayed 3.5hrs.

ZK-OKI has done NZ107/110 AKL-SYD-AKL over the weekend, I think entered service early to cover?

It happens, just bad timing right at the start of the holidays.

decry wrote:
DHL 767 arrival in Sydney thanks to Graham @16right_media https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk7kxBxgy3P ... _web_share


Conflicting reports I’m hearing as to weather this is a permanent replacement for the 752, I believe the 763 got a water cannon salute at both AKL and SYD meaning it could well be permanent going by that imo. Anyone here able to advise?
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:51 am

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haggis73
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:42 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:27 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Plenty of delays I’ve noticed across the NZ international network to start the school holidays which imo go beyond the 789 issues.

ZK-OKR broke on Friday causing NZ6 to LAX to be delayed till 1300 the following day, it still seems to be broken. CNS was XXLD Saturday, HNL NZ9 772 was delayed 12 hrs coming home Friday. NAN NZ56 Sunday delayed 1100 to 2100 meaning HKG gets delayed overnight, NZ46 RAR 772 delayed 4hrs meaning YVR delayed 3.5hrs.

ZK-OKI has done NZ107/110 AKL-SYD-AKL over the weekend, I think entered service early to cover?

It happens, just bad timing right at the start of the holidays.

decry wrote:
DHL 767 arrival in Sydney thanks to Graham @16right_media https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk7kxBxgy3P ... _web_share


Conflicting reports I’m hearing as to weather this is a permanent replacement for the 752, I believe the 763 got a water cannon salute at both AKL and SYD meaning it could well be permanent going by that imo. Anyone here able to advise?


ZK-OKR had a fuel leak on Friday night.
The 763 for Tasman Cargo will be permanent.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6254
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:32 am

haggis73 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Plenty of delays I’ve noticed across the NZ international network to start the school holidays which imo go beyond the 789 issues.

ZK-OKR broke on Friday causing NZ6 to LAX to be delayed till 1300 the following day, it still seems to be broken. CNS was XXLD Saturday, HNL NZ9 772 was delayed 12 hrs coming home Friday. NAN NZ56 Sunday delayed 1100 to 2100 meaning HKG gets delayed overnight, NZ46 RAR 772 delayed 4hrs meaning YVR delayed 3.5hrs.

ZK-OKI has done NZ107/110 AKL-SYD-AKL over the weekend, I think entered service early to cover?

It happens, just bad timing right at the start of the holidays.

decry wrote:
DHL 767 arrival in Sydney thanks to Graham @16right_media https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk7kxBxgy3P ... _web_share


Conflicting reports I’m hearing as to weather this is a permanent replacement for the 752, I believe the 763 got a water cannon salute at both AKL and SYD meaning it could well be permanent going by that imo. Anyone here able to advise?


ZK-OKR had a fuel leak on Friday night.
The 763 for Tasman Cargo will be permanent.


Interesting re Tasman cargo. I take it they will only have 1 aircraft, ie the 752 won’t be back.

Thanks re OKR, hopefully won’t be out for to long.
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:14 pm

China Southern will also upgrade CAN-CHC to 789, replacing 788 for NW18/19, eff 28 October 18

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 8498186240
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planemanofnz
Posts: 3931
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:35 pm

qf789 wrote:
China Southern will also upgrade CAN-CHC to 789, replacing 788 for NW18/19, eff 28 October 18

A welcome boost, in light of CI's withdrawal - hopefully a daily frequency is maintained.

The 789 will see CZ drop F from the CHC market, with only EK offering F to CHC now.

Cheers,

C.
 
bonzolab
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:38 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:40 pm

SelandiaBaru wrote:
bonzolab wrote:
SelandiaBaru wrote:


28kts wet runway. How is icing a big consideration?


A number of operators will limit below that in order to be able to control the aircraft. Icing performance would be a consideration for remote operations given a number of scenarios - en-route decisions, holding, loitering etc.


I don' think so. Zero terrain issues between NZ and the Chats. Get iced up, descend. If crews are having trouble controlling the aircraft as you put it then I think they may need to reevaluate their technique/career choice.
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