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nmdrdh787
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:56 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:

I actually don’t think it is very likely. And I’m just repeating what everyone is talking about at Southwest today. If you don’t like a post on here, you are more than welcome to scroll on by without being rude.


Are you allowed by WN to post such things here? I would assume that you did sign a NDA today and probably violating the terms by spreading rumors here...


Are rumors covered by an NDA?


This is a valid question, and I realized I probably should have made my question more specific.

It really depends. If OP overheard this in an official company meeting, then yes. But then it really isn't a rumor is it...

If it was just water cooler talk, then ???. I'm not sure.

My rule when I was in the industry (and still now as I am still bound by my former employer's NDA), is that if it isn't a public announcement (new terminal, new route,etc), then its off limits. I have seen a few individuals here spewing information myself and only a handful of others knew about, which was going to be public in a few weeks on here way before the announcement. That was a blatant disregard and disrespect for NDAs and put a microscope on a few of us for a short period of time before they found out who it was.

I don't buy into many rumors here anyway. Some of them can cause damage though...
 
asteriskceo
Topic Author
Posts: 501
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:42 pm

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:05 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:

I actually don’t think it is very likely. And I’m just repeating what everyone is talking about at Southwest today. If you don’t like a post on here, you are more than welcome to scroll on by without being rude.


Are you allowed by WN to post such things here? I would assume that you did sign a NDA today and probably violating the terms by spreading rumors here...


Are rumors covered by an NDA?


I am not employed by WN. An NDA does not apply to me.
 
nmdrdh787
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:09 pm

asteriskceo wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:

Are you allowed by WN to post such things here? I would assume that you did sign a NDA today and probably violating the terms by spreading rumors here...


Are rumors covered by an NDA?


I am not employed by WN. An NDA does not apply to me.


Interesting that you are choosing to throw around some large rumors still....

Edit: It looks like you posted a screenshot of an internal email earlier in the thread. Where did you get this from if you aren't employed by WN?
 
asteriskceo
Topic Author
Posts: 501
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:42 pm

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:18 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Are rumors covered by an NDA?


I am not employed by WN. An NDA does not apply to me.


Interesting that you are choosing to throw around some large rumors still....

Edit: It looks like you posted a screenshot of an internal email earlier in the thread. Where did you get this from if you aren't employed by WN?


I have several friends that work for WN.
 
nmdrdh787
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:22 pm

asteriskceo wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:

I am not employed by WN. An NDA does not apply to me.


Interesting that you are choosing to throw around some large rumors still....

Edit: It looks like you posted a screenshot of an internal email earlier in the thread. Where did you get this from if you aren't employed by WN?


I have several friends that work for WN.


Ah yes see this is the issue.

1) They shouldn't be sharing internal emails with you, thats against their contract and/or NDA as they are not allowed to share internal emails to unauthorized external parties such as yourself. Rumors are a bit different unless they shared some document with you about HA/WN.
2) This isn't going to happen in a million years.

With that, I've said my peace.
 
asteriskceo
Topic Author
Posts: 501
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:42 pm

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:37 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:

Interesting that you are choosing to throw around some large rumors still....

Edit: It looks like you posted a screenshot of an internal email earlier in the thread. Where did you get this from if you aren't employed by WN?


I have several friends that work for WN.


Ah yes see this is the issue.

1) They shouldn't be sharing internal emails with you, thats against their contract and/or NDA as they are not allowed to share internal emails to unauthorized external parties such as yourself. Rumors are a bit different unless they shared some document with you about HA/WN.
2) This isn't going to happen in a million years.

With that, I've said my peace.


Thank you for the scolding, I'll be sure to pass it along. :roll:
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2238
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:39 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Are rumors covered by an NDA?


I am not employed by WN. An NDA does not apply to me.


Interesting that you are choosing to throw around some large rumors still....

Edit: It looks like you posted a screenshot of an internal email earlier in the thread. Where did you get this from if you aren't employed by WN?



The email isn’t internal. It was posted by pilot on APC, which is where this rumor comes from.
 
BobbyPSP
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:29 pm

Re: Rumour: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:44 pm

I apologize, as it was asked by someone else but hadn’t been answered:

It’s there a non-prop engine/airframe out there now that can do inter-island as efficiently (turn times/segments) as the 717?

Current generation aircraft: we’re not going back to 732’s

Thanks!
 
nmdrdh787
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:06 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:

I am not employed by WN. An NDA does not apply to me.


Interesting that you are choosing to throw around some large rumors still....

Edit: It looks like you posted a screenshot of an internal email earlier in the thread. Where did you get this from if you aren't employed by WN?



The email isn’t internal. It was posted by pilot on APC, which is where this rumor comes from.


THanks for clarifying, I retract my previous statement :O
 
777PHX
Posts: 962
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:29 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
777PHX wrote:
I'm not buying it. Hawaiian doesn't have any value to WN and their business model is so completely different than WN's, I don't see it happening. I'd take that 717 rumor with a grain of salt too, front line employees, including pilots, are the last to know anything about anything. And at any rate, if WN was acquiring HA, getting rid of the 717s makes no sense.


The value of Hawaiian is that it generates free cash flow. WN doesn't need to integrate Hawaiian's operations to financially benefit from acquiring Hawaiian. They could leave it a wholly-owned subsidiary. If you think that's crazy, let's recall that mid-2000s WN was described often described as a hedge fund that also operated an airline.


Yes, that's sort of the point. WN isn't going to buy out Hawaiian to hull out their operations so this sort of makes this rumor about selling all of the 717s that much more nonsensical.
 
IWMBH
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: Rumour: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:31 pm

Is there any evidence to prove this? I can't find anything online and it's sounds unlikely.
 
MO11
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Rumour: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:18 pm

IWMBH wrote:
Is there any evidence to prove this? I can't find anything online and it's sounds unlikely.



1. Someone on another website posted a Southwest memo which indicated that it was going to suspend hiring for the immediate future.

2. Conjecture: maybe that means a merger is in the works.

3. Someone else said that he heard from someone at DL that it was getting 25 more 717s.

This is how the rumor started......
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4709
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Rumour: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:14 pm

Huh...it’s been about 4 years since I’ve heard this rumor. Which is weird because you’d think such a fast-moving and talked about rumor surely would have made it to my station by now with all the Hawaii chatter going on lately.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
cessna2
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:16 am

Re: Rumour: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:34 pm

Honestly i'd believe the rumor about DL/HA before WN/HA. I know DL has been close to buying HA in the past but walked out in the "11th hour" when HA came back asking for more money. There's also other things going on that play into that theory. So if anything thats where i'm putting my money.
 
airtrantpa
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:53 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:48 pm

evank516 wrote:
airtrantpa wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

Air Tran never operated 717's on such short flights with quick turnarounds either. There's a reason HA bought 717's and no other planes to operate inter island hops.


We flew tpa-eyw on the 717, with out avg 25 minute turn


No you didn't. That would be the 737-700 my friend.

Oh, and by the way everyone: This acquisition? NOT happening.


We did indeed fly the baby boy to eyw, granted not an everyday occurance i have worked the flight as a gate agent and the plane was indeed a 712
AirTran: Go there's no stopping you!
712,722,732,733,735,73G,738,739,752,753,762,763,764,772,A318,319,320,320,343,L1011,D8,M82/88/90

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0newair0
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

Re: Rumour: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:34 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Only EK could afford to buy HA. HA probably has a global brand latency (MBA speak), and therefore a brand valuation, in the same league as BA, AA, UA, KL, DL, etc., and higher than EK, EY, QR, or TK. In a global survey, WN is beyond the pale... it's domestic. If anyone ponies up $100K, I would be happy to conduct a 10,000 sample survey.


This is crap. Hawaiian is a public company valued at 1.83 USB (consultant speak for US dollars in billions). In the event of a buyout or merger offer there will be a premium offered over the current market value but it will not make Hawaiian worth as much as any of the airlines you've listed.

Delta, for example, is valued at 35.02 USB. Hardly in the same league.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Rumour: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:15 am

cessna2 wrote:
Honestly i'd believe the rumor about DL/HA before WN/HA. I know DL has been close to buying HA in the past but walked out in the "11th hour" when HA came back asking for more money. There's also other things going on that play into that theory. So if anything thats where i'm putting my money.


Was that potential deal pre-9/11, pre-NWA, or post-NWA?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Rumour: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:31 am

0newair0 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Only EK could afford to buy HA. HA probably has a global brand latency (MBA speak), and therefore a brand valuation, in the same league as BA, AA, UA, KL, DL, etc., and higher than EK, EY, QR, or TK. In a global survey, WN is beyond the pale... it's domestic. If anyone ponies up $100K, I would be happy to conduct a 10,000 sample survey.


This is crap. Hawaiian is a public company valued at 1.83 USB (consultant speak for US dollars in billions). In the event of a buyout or merger offer there will be a premium offered over the current market value but it will not make Hawaiian worth as much as any of the airlines you've listed.

Delta, for example, is valued at 35.02 USB. Hardly in the same league.


OK, putting aside limits on foreign ownership of an AOC, anyone with roughly 2 USB could buy HA if shareholders were willing to sell. AAG paid about 4 USB for VA, because VA wanted to sell. HA has a great brand, and great operations. Who would pay the expected premium over market value to induce HA SHs to sell... a multiple (2x, 3x...?) of market value. Who would pay that? I posit only EK. YMMV.

I should have clarified that by "In a global survey, WN is beyond the pale... it's domestic." I meant brand latency, and therefore brand valuation, on a global scale. One thing SRB excels at (maybe the only thing) is building global brand latency. Around the world in a Virgin hot air balloon.
 
deltatim
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:46 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:55 am

asteriskceo wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
If the OP can't name a source, the only place the rumor exists is in their head. So many useless conversations started just for the purpose of starting debates.


I actually don’t think it is very likely. And I’m just repeating what everyone is talking about at Southwest today. If you don’t like a post on here, you are more than welcome to scroll on by without being rude.


Thank you asteriskceo... my thoughts exactly.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Rumour: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:12 am

Correction: AAG paid about 4 USB for VX, because VX wanted to sell.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5365
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:16 am

Virtual737 wrote:
777PHX wrote:
The story goes that the 717 and its engines are the only engines capable of dissipating enough heat during the infamously short turnarounds HA is known for. No other jet aircraft can do it because the short turnarounds drastically decrease engine life.


Out of interest, is there no easy, cost effective way of "helping" CFM56s (or any other turbofan) to dissipate heat? Just a fan in front blowing rearwards would be a tremendous help. In Formula 1 we see what are effectively modified leaf blowers and occasionally dry ice used to cool engines. Even without the dry ice a very low tech fan can remove an awful lot of heat.

You could motor the engines to cool them off but the flip side to that is that you are still working the engine and LRUs


And you have limits on how much motoring can be done.

So could it be done? Technically yes
Would it be economical? No


Of course none of this matters because it Southwest isn't buying or merging with Hawaiian.


IIRC the little GTF on the E2 and CS is supposed to be able to handle the intra-island work from my understanding (but could be wrong)
 
evank516
Posts: 2170
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:44 pm

airtrantpa wrote:
evank516 wrote:
airtrantpa wrote:

We flew tpa-eyw on the 717, with out avg 25 minute turn


No you didn't. That would be the 737-700 my friend.

Oh, and by the way everyone: This acquisition? NOT happening.


We did indeed fly the baby boy to eyw, granted not an everyday occurance i have worked the flight as a gate agent and the plane was indeed a 712


I have to fact check you on that one. The 712 was never ever flown to EYW by FL as far as I've ever seen. 4,801 foot runway limits the aircraft that can land there. If you can find a picture of it I'll believe it.
 
airtrantpa
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:53 am

Re: Southwest to acquire Hawaiian?

Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:09 pm

evank516 wrote:
airtrantpa wrote:
evank516 wrote:

No you didn't. That would be the 737-700 my friend.

Oh, and by the way everyone: This acquisition? NOT happening.


We did indeed fly the baby boy to eyw, granted not an everyday occurance i have worked the flight as a gate agent and the plane was indeed a 712


I have to fact check you on that one. The 712 was never ever flown to EYW by FL as far as I've ever seen. 4,801 foot runway limits the aircraft that can land there. If you can find a picture of it I'll believe it.


Im not sure if i have pics, i ha e few from inside Airside A while working but i do have plenty from the ramp. Ues it was normally a 73G but i can recall at least twice(that i worked it), it was subbed a 717 and due to restrictions wasnt full.
AirTran: Go there's no stopping you!
712,722,732,733,735,73G,738,739,752,753,762,763,764,772,A318,319,320,320,343,L1011,D8,M82/88/90

flown on all U.S based carriers that have existed since 1991

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