WPvsMW
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HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:27 pm

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/07/0 ... -16-hours/

I'm equally impressed with (i) discovery during preflight inspection and (ii) rapid repair.
"damaged" vs. "broken"... please read "broken" as "damaged" if the title bothers you ... the point is the blade was replaced.
And, yes, the pix is of a B712 empennage, not an A332.
Last edited by WPvsMW on Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
sgbroimp
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:40 pm

Well, at least all the pax got leied after the landing.
 
DFW17L
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:54 pm

sgbroimp wrote:
Well, at least all the pax got leied after the landing.


Well, you certainly beached me to it.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:20 pm

Way to go for the pilot doing the walk-around for noticing it (yes, I know he's supposed to, but still...a job done right is a job well done). One wonders how the previous crew didn't notice anything amiss like vibration.

I also think HA did an excellent job with service recovery. They got the pax a place to crash out and got them food and then leis as an apology on landing. A very nice gesture and a great way to reduce the amount of poor publicity and grumpy passengers.
-Doc Lightning-

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MrBretz
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:12 pm

Reminds me of a time just a couple years ago when my morning flight from OAK to the Islands was delayed for many hours. We were provided lunch vouchers. I think we had a 6 or 7 hours delay. We missed our connection to an outer island and were put up at one the hotels near HNL. The high point was the gate attendants in OAK doing the hula for us while we waited. It got the edge off. And there seemed to be many more than the usual 1 free mai tai on the way back.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:20 pm

A similar example happened a while back at JFK. An AT B763 had a hard landing but taxied to the gate after arriving from CMN. The pilot for the return flight in his walk-around in rain noticed that the plane’s exterior was wrinkled (finding why I was raining in the passenger cabin). He immediately called off the flight and the aircraft stopped loading. The aircraft was grounded at JFK for about 4 months (CN-RNT). I shudder to think what could have happened had the return flight been attempted.

Here, the aircraft in question is N392HA. The question is if the lost turbofan piece will ever be recovered.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:40 am

The newspaper article only said "damaged" and "replaced". No idea what the damage was.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:58 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
A similar example happened a while back at JFK. An AT B763 had a hard landing but taxied to the gate after arriving from CMN. The pilot for the return flight in his walk-around in rain noticed that the plane’s exterior was wrinkled (finding why I was raining in the passenger cabin). He immediately called off the flight and the aircraft stopped loading. The aircraft was grounded at JFK for about 4 months (CN-RNT). I shudder to think what could have happened had the return flight been attempted.



CN-RNT then involved in a belt loader fire accident in 2013, a poor plane

By the way, it is not the first time that the 767 got seriously wrinkled after hard landing and seems it always happen.....
google it then you will find number of photos involving different 767.
 
twinotter
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:13 am

Fan blade nicks are pretty common.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:37 am

A minor nick on a fan blade would not require replacement (but a very minor nick on an HPT blade would trigger replacement). The damage had to justify the expense of grounding the a/c, accommodating the pax, replacing the blade, and testing the engine, but because it wasn't an incident or accident, we will probably never know what the damage was.
http://www.mro-network.com/engines-engi ... fan-blades

http://www.mro-network.com/maintenance- ... ct-engines

The inference is that FADEC didn't report any issues during the preceding flight(s).
Last edited by WPvsMW on Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
 
Arion640
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:49 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
A similar example happened a while back at JFK. An AT B763 had a hard landing but taxied to the gate after arriving from CMN. The pilot for the return flight in his walk-around in rain noticed that the plane’s exterior was wrinkled (finding why I was raining in the passenger cabin). He immediately called off the flight and the aircraft stopped loading. The aircraft was grounded at JFK for about 4 months (CN-RNT). I shudder to think what could have happened had the return flight been attempted.



CN-RNT then involved in a belt loader fire accident in 2013, a poor plane

By the way, it is not the first time that the 767 got seriously wrinkled after hard landing and seems it always happen.....
google it then you will find number of photos involving different 767.


First Choice Airways (or may of been Thomson Airways at that point) bent a 767 up on the runway at Bristol a couple of years back. It’s quite a shot runway for widebodies.
Great Britain: the worlds gateway to Europe.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:33 pm

Question---a part did have to be flown in, but since Hawaiian contracts with Delta for maintenance, could the part have been flown in from ATL, or did it have to be flown in from HNL or PHL? The only US carrier operating the same engine as HA's A332s aside from HA is AA (on AA's Philadelphia-based A332s).
 
mjoelnir
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:09 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
The newspaper article only said "damaged" and "replaced". No idea what the damage was.


But you have to open up the topic with broken instead of damaged.
 
fadecfault
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:57 pm

There is nothing remarkable or even news worthy about this event. Things like that happen everyday.
The views and opinions written here are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:02 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Question---a part did have to be flown in, but since Hawaiian contracts with Delta for maintenance, could the part have been flown in from ATL, or did it have to be flown in from HNL or PHL? The only US carrier operating the same engine as HA's A332s aside from HA is AA (on AA's Philadelphia-based A332s).

C checks are done at the DL MSP mx base. Not sure if engines are repaired there as well.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:00 pm

fadecfault wrote:
Things like that happen everyday.


??? Every day? When was the previous incident of a preflight inspection triggering a fan blade replacement on a commercial airliner at an outstation?
Not being argumentative... but this is a rare incident, and kudos to HA for avoiding a possible WN at PHL type scenario.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:12 pm

fadecfault wrote:
There is nothing remarkable or even news worthy about this event. Things like that happen everyday.


Ok folks, move on, nothing to see here. The party pooper patrol says so.
 
Tristarsteve
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:19 pm

The inference is that FADEC didn't report any issues during the preceding flight(s).

How on earth do you expect the FADEC to report on the FOID damage on fan blades??????
FADEC is a computor. It needs inputs to gove outputs. There are no sensors on the fan blades. That is why they are inspected every PDI.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:39 pm

FADEC detects spelling errors.
Less facetiously, engine vibration can be reported through FADEC (QF has it on its B737s).
https://meggittsensing.com/wp-content/u ... _11-08.pdf
See page 4, bottom.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:19 pm

fadecfault wrote:
There is nothing remarkable or even news worthy about this event. Things like that happen everyday.


1) No, they don't. It is quite unusual for an incidental finding on walkaround to lead to an aircraft being taken out of service for most of a day and a fan blade being replaced. Fan blades are one of the most reliable structures in modern aviation, even the older style found on the Trent 700.

2) This is an aviation message board. Any deviation from regular operations is fair game. For that matter, we sometimes discuss regular operations.
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lightsaber
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:43 pm

DocLightning wrote:
fadecfault wrote:
There is nothing remarkable or even news worthy about this event. Things like that happen everyday.


1) No, they don't. It is quite unusual for an incidental finding on walkaround to lead to an aircraft being taken out of service for most of a day and a fan blade being replaced. Fan blades are one of the most reliable structures in modern aviation, even the older style found on the Trent 700.

2) This is an aviation message board. Any deviation from regular operations is fair game. For that matter, we sometimes discuss regular operations.

I personally find this noteworthy. Normally the FADAQ finds this sort of event after damage.

I'm impressed the pilot did his duty properly and discovered this before it was an issue.

Lightsaber
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questions
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:59 am

DocLightning wrote:
I also think HA did an excellent job with service recovery.


Service recovery is so important. Most people understand that things can and will go wrong. It’s amazing how many companies absolutely fail on service recovery, which, when done right, can actually increase customer loyalty.
 
69bug
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:58 am

The aircraft is smart enough to pick up a damaged blade 'íf' a piece has broken off and thereby creating an imbalance due to the missing part.
If the damage is only a crack or a dent in the blade there would be no material missing and therefore no imbalance.

bug
 
USAirKid
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:10 am

I'm just amazed that we're over twenty replies in and no one has complained about the picture of a 717-200 in an article about a A332 failure... A.net we're slacking! :duck:
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:39 am

Hmmmm.... read my OP, line 4.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:42 am

69bug wrote:
The aircraft is smart enough to pick up a damaged blade 'íf' a piece has broken off and thereby creating an imbalance due to the missing part.
If the damage is only a crack or a dent in the blade there would be no material missing and therefore no imbalance.

bug


Agreed, but we don't know whether that A332 had vibration sensors feeding the FADEC, or even what the damage was.... but it was noticeable enough from the ramp during preflight visual... so we're not talking about a scratch.
 
RobertS975
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:12 am

All modern jet engines have vibration monitoring instrumentation. I
 
FlyHappy
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:15 am

questions wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
I also think HA did an excellent job with service recovery.


Service recovery is so important. Most people understand that things can and will go wrong. It’s amazing how many companies absolutely fail on service recovery, which, when done right, can actually increase customer loyalty.


spot on.

not only does the pilot deserve an award, IMO, for taking an otherwise routine and mundane task seriously, HA shows in a tangible way why they are a 1st class operation that takes their duty to the customer with equally great sincerity. This is something seriously lacking around the globe, with few others that match this level of customer care.

bravo to HA and its pilot(s).
 
USAirKid
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:20 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Hmmmm.... read my OP, line 4.


Oops.. I guess I'll need to get my glasses checked.
 
ha763
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:12 am

Are we sure it was the pilot, not line maintenance, that found the damaged fan blade? The inbound flight is scheduled to arrive at 7:25am and the aircraft is only on the ground for 2 hours before flying back to HNL. Line maintenance does has to perform ETOPS checks and other inspections as well.
 
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:32 am

questions wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
I also think HA did an excellent job with service recovery.


Service recovery is so important. Most people understand that things can and will go wrong. It’s amazing how many companies absolutely fail on service recovery, which, when done right, can actually increase customer loyalty.


Absolutely true. My mother for example has faced two nasty mechanical delays on Delta and United. Delta left her in an airport over night but United bought hotel rooms and meals. She now flies United when she can. Sometimes it’s if you handle the service interruption well it does win customers.
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T prop
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:55 am

ha763 wrote:
Are we sure it was the pilot, not line maintenance, that found the damaged fan blade? The inbound flight is scheduled to arrive at 7:25am and the aircraft is only on the ground for 2 hours before flying back to HNL. Line maintenance does has to perform ETOPS checks and other inspections as well.


I bet it was the line maintenance crew that found it. On a 2 hour turn they're starting thier inspections almost as soon as the engines are shutdown on the inbound.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:30 pm

A serious engine malfunction on a twin is always significant, and when off shore even more so. The 'miracle of flight' nowadays is that planes, personnel, regulatory agencies have made it so safe. I suspect all of the aforementioned will be looking into this. And most of us here on line will be interested in the report.
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stratclub
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:01 pm

DocLightning wrote:
fadecfault wrote:
There is nothing remarkable or even news worthy about this event. Things like that happen everyday.


1) No, they don't. It is quite unusual for an incidental finding on walkaround to lead to an aircraft being taken out of service for most of a day and a fan blade being replaced. Fan blades are one of the most reliable structures in modern aviation, even the older style found on the Trent 700.

2) This is an aviation message board. Any deviation from regular operations is fair game. For that matter, we sometimes discuss regular operations.

Nope, not newsworthy because they didn't mention that the fan blade was the victim of racial bias or inappropriate unprofessional conduct of the airlines. I'm reserving my opinion until hear the fan blade's side of the story. And really, a problem was found, repaired and the aircraft was returned to service. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now if this was found on a preflight walk around, it would be newsworthy:

Image
Last edited by stratclub on Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
mikejepp
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:09 pm

Wow, many of you surely don't have a lot of faith in the abilities of pilots. Amazed that the pilot found this problem? Impressed that they did their job? Thinking they deserve an award? Saying it was likely line mx that found it? etc etc

Just what exactly do you all think pilots do... nothing... and have no skill... or pride or professionalism in a job done right? The event in this thread is absolutely 100% standard routine stuff. The pilot did their job and the issue was dealt with. Pilots know their planes well and do thorough (much more thorough than what mx does for an ETOPS check... which are only specific items) preflight walkarounds prior to every flight. Many of these pilots have done thousands of walkarounds of the same type of airplane and they know what they're looking for. Not to mention that their job, and safety, is on the line encouraging them to do a complete and accurate inspection.

Just about every airline pilot out there has found something on on a walkaround that was significant at one point or another and caused a flight to be delayed or canceled. It happens, its their job. A cracked fan blade is a big deal, yes, but these types of things happen all the time. Just most of them never make it to the general public...
 
ikramerica
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Re: HA discovers broken fan blade on A332 in preflight inspection

Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:36 pm

kabq737 wrote:
questions wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
I also think HA did an excellent job with service recovery.


Service recovery is so important. Most people understand that things can and will go wrong. It’s amazing how many companies absolutely fail on service recovery, which, when done right, can actually increase customer loyalty.


Absolutely true. My mother for example has faced two nasty mechanical delays on Delta and United. Delta left her in an airport over night but United bought hotel rooms and meals. She now flies United when she can. Sometimes it’s if you handle the service interruption well it does win customers.

It’s one of the main reason I flew CO and AA and avoided DL in the 2000s. DL was the worst during delays and routinely tried to blame weather for mechanical or operational delays so they didn’t have to help you. I don’t know if they’ve improved, but CO is gone, UA cut routes I flew, and AA is crap now so I fly DL mostly anyway.
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