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Thibault973
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Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:17 pm

The 1st direct flight between Saint Pierre (pop 5 888), a French island off the Canadian coast and Paris CDG was launched yesterday by 5O.

8 flights are scheduled this summer. Apparently, all of this year's flights are already sold out and the compagny hopes to operate 22 flights between CDG and FSP in S19.
ASL airlines France operates this flight with a 737-700 fitted with 148 seats of which 1/3 is blocked due the rather short runway (5,906 ft) in Saint-Pierre.

So this got me thinking, Saint Pierre has to be now the smallest city in North America to get transatlantic service, but is it the smallest city to receive a long haul flight period ?
 
mozart
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:33 pm

Shannon has a bit less than 10,000 inhabitants, Prestwick around 14,000 - so yes, this seems to be the smallest town with scheduled trans-Atlantic service
 
Thibault973
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:50 pm

mozart wrote:
Shannon has a bit less than 10,000 inhabitants, Prestwick around 14,000 - so yes, this seems to be the smallest town with scheduled trans-Atlantic service


Well SNN serves Limerick (metro 160 000) and Galway (80 000), PIK serves Glasgow and doesn't see any transatlantic flight anyway. Saint Pierre's airport literally only serves Saint Pierre island.
 
FCOTSTW
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:03 pm

Please do not forget that places such as this can enjoy from heavy subsidies. In this case, I would not be surprised whether the French government would have done it. After all, this is French territory and the French government has historically facilitated communications with its "collectivitées d'outre-mer" (overseas territories), such as French Polynesia or Guadeloupe.
 
airbazar
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:04 pm

Thibault973 wrote:
So this got me thinking, Saint Pierre has to be now the smallest city in North America to get transatlantic service, but is it the smallest city to receive a long haul flight period ?

At 2,300nm this is nowhere near long haul.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:21 pm

I'm rather surprised they've picked a plane as big as a 737-700 for this route, must have some seats blocked off since the runway in St. Pierre is rather short so it's weight limited. Why not use the CS-300 for this route? It does have the range and probably performs better from the short runway in St. Pierre. It's lighter than a 737, so more cost-efficient.

Because of it's unique location (just off the Canadian coast, but part of France and therefor in the EU) it could be a stopover point for cheap flights to America. Any airline from the EU is allowed to fly from anywhere in the EU to anywhere in the USA, so this means from St. Pierre to the USA too. Same goes for Canada by the way. And of course those airlines are allowed to fly any route within the EU, so St. Pierre to anywhere in the EU as well. I could see some airline open up a route like Dublin - St. Pierre - Chicago for example. For most passengers St. Pierre would be nothing but a refueling point, but it does contribute to the number of passengers.
 
ghYHZ
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:41 pm

Previously that ASL flight operated from Halifax YHZ to CDG via DUB. St. Pierre residents took a short Air St. Pierre ATR flight over to YHZ and connected here into the ASL flight. Only other option was Air St Pierre to YUL and a connection to Air France.

St Pierre residents now also have the option to still connect in Halifax to the new daily YHZ-CDG WestJet MAX 8.
 
caribb
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:44 pm

Air St-Pierre flies flights into YUL which I have always presumed to be the way most people there connected to flights heading to Paris. I wonder how these new CDG nonstops will impact the loads on those segments.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:49 pm

This flight is also unique in that it's a domestic flight.

Yes indeed this is now much smaller than Shannon for town with transatlantic service. Whitehorse at approx. 23,000 I think is next smallest followed by Fairbanks at approx. 33,000 (approx. 100k metro).
 
[email protected]
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:50 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
I'm rather surprised they've picked a plane as big as a 737-700 for this route, must have some seats blocked off since the runway in St. Pierre is rather short so it's weight limited. Why not use the CS-300 for this route? It does have the range and probably performs better from the short runway in St. Pierre. It's lighter than a 737, so more cost-efficient.

Because of it's unique location (just off the Canadian coast, but part of France and therefor in the EU) it could be a stopover point for cheap flights to America. Any airline from the EU is allowed to fly from anywhere in the EU to anywhere in the USA, so this means from St. Pierre to the USA too. Same goes for Canada by the way. And of course those airlines are allowed to fly any route within the EU, so St. Pierre to anywhere in the EU as well. I could see some airline open up a route like Dublin - St. Pierre - Chicago for example. For most passengers St. Pierre would be nothing but a refueling point, but it does contribute to the number of passengers.


They don't have CS3s. And their 73Gs have around the number of seats CS3s do.

KEF and others do this very well already, with good local traffic to/from KEF.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
cloudboy
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:59 pm

I don't get how this isn't already a thing. They are somewhat runway restricted, but I could see an airline making a deal whit the island to expand the airport, and they make a good economical low cost hub for trans-atlantic flights on fairly small aircraft. A320s and 737s from many smaller US cities, and still be close enough to Europe for narrow body flights.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:01 pm

[email protected] wrote:
They don't have CS3s.

KEF and others do this very well already, with good local traffic to/from KEF.


I'm not talking about this specific airline, just more general. Any airline could open up this route.

I know Keflavik is already doing this, but it's further away from America. Therefor secondary airports can't be reached profitably since you need a rather large plane to make it from Keflavik to anywhere in the USA. Yes, I'm calling the A320 large compared to the CS-300. Many secondary airports in America can't be reached profitable from mainland Europe, but they can from St. Pierre which is technically also Europe.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:10 pm

A little perspective on the distance though: St. Pierre and Paris are closer than Boston and San Francisco or Miami and Seattle.
a.
 
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Polot
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:12 pm

I don’t believe St. Pierre and Miquelon are part of the EU/US open skies agreement. Only the French overseas departments (which St Pierre and Miquelon are not) are included (along with the Azores, Madeira, and Canary Islands).

Things like that need to be cleared up before pipedreams of connecting hubs.
 
airbazar
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:28 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
They don't have CS3s.

KEF and others do this very well already, with good local traffic to/from KEF.


I'm not talking about this specific airline, just more general. Any airline could open up this route.

I know Keflavik is already doing this, but it's further away from America. Therefor secondary airports can't be reached profitably since you need a rather large plane to make it from Keflavik to anywhere in the USA. Yes, I'm calling the A320 large compared to the CS-300. Many secondary airports in America can't be reached profitable from mainland Europe, but they can from St. Pierre which is technically also Europe.

Because there isn't that much of a market for 1-stops in the middle of nowhere on TATL routes.
KEF works because Iceland in itself is a destination and a huge percentage of those passengers want to spend a day or 2 or 5 in Iceland.
In 2017 KEf handled nearly 9 million passengers of which only aprox 3 million were straight connections.
 
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Polot
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:38 pm

airbazar wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
They don't have CS3s.

KEF and others do this very well already, with good local traffic to/from KEF.


I'm not talking about this specific airline, just more general. Any airline could open up this route.

I know Keflavik is already doing this, but it's further away from America. Therefor secondary airports can't be reached profitably since you need a rather large plane to make it from Keflavik to anywhere in the USA. Yes, I'm calling the A320 large compared to the CS-300. Many secondary airports in America can't be reached profitable from mainland Europe, but they can from St. Pierre which is technically also Europe.

Because there isn't that much of a market for 1-stops in the middle of nowhere on TATL routes.
KEF works because Iceland in itself is a destination and a huge percentage of those passengers want to spend a day or 2 or 5 in Iceland.
In 2017 KEf handled nearly 9 million passengers of which only aprox 3 million were straight connections.

Major hubs also need infrastructure and people to support them. Reykjavik is a city with 210,000+ people in the region. The total population of St. Pierre and Miquelon is only 6,000 people.

You think they have the population to run a major hub? Or the infrastructure if something goes wrong and flights get cancelled? Do you really think there is local desire to have a busy airport right by their homes?
 
 
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OA940
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Re: Saint Pierre & Miquelon, NA (pop 6 000) gets direct flights from CDG

Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:36 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
I'm rather surprised they've picked a plane as big as a 737-700 for this route, must have some seats blocked off since the runway in St. Pierre is rather short so it's weight limited. Why not use the CS-300 for this route? It does have the range and probably performs better from the short runway in St. Pierre. It's lighter than a 737, so more cost-efficient.

Because of it's unique location (just off the Canadian coast, but part of France and therefor in the EU) it could be a stopover point for cheap flights to America. Any airline from the EU is allowed to fly from anywhere in the EU to anywhere in the USA, so this means from St. Pierre to the USA too. Same goes for Canada by the way. And of course those airlines are allowed to fly any route within the EU, so St. Pierre to anywhere in the EU as well. I could see some airline open up a route like Dublin - St. Pierre - Chicago for example. For most passengers St. Pierre would be nothing but a refueling point, but it does contribute to the number of passengers.


The CS300 has the same capacity. The only benefits would be efficiency and pax comfort, and the plane could take off with more people. But no French airline has the CS ordered, and to operate a once-weekly seasonal service doesn't justify buying a brand-new aircraft.
A350/CSeries = bae

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